1 2012-03-14 00:00:35 <[Prayer]> speaking of libraries... I read something about Bram Cohen working on p2p content distribution... aka, world's largest tivo
  2 2012-03-14 00:02:00 <sipa> HAH
  3 2012-03-14 00:02:10 <BlueMatt> not like any major media companies will ever touch anything with a p2p mark stamped on it
  4 2012-03-14 00:02:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: NICE!
  5 2012-03-14 00:03:00 <forsetifox> I heard Stewie's voice in my head when Sipa said "HAH".
  6 2012-03-14 00:03:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's a binary logfile, append-only, with built-in checksums
  7 2012-03-14 00:03:08 <[Prayer]> blue, if commercials are integrated into the player forcing people to watch or fast-forward, they wouldn't see it as being any worse than tivo
  8 2012-03-14 00:03:12 <BlueMatt> nice
  9 2012-03-14 00:03:26 <BlueMatt> [Prayer]: except for "p2p"
 10 2012-03-14 00:03:32 <BlueMatt> (which they hate with a passion)
 11 2012-03-14 00:03:46 <[Prayer]> blue, because they can't figure out how to make money on it
 12 2012-03-14 00:04:17 <[Prayer]> if the networks were to release their shows (with commercials) a day early as a torrent, they could have their cake and eat it too
 13 2012-03-14 00:04:39 <[Prayer]> there would be very little reason for people to rip it and cut hte commercials.  not many people care that much about their libraries
 14 2012-03-14 00:05:10 <[Prayer]> and the torrent it self will actually tell them how many people have grabbed it, and they can add those numbers straight into their ratings
 15 2012-03-14 00:05:23 <BlueMatt> yes, but no matter how nice the tech is, anything that has p2p on it is repulsive to most content industries
 16 2012-03-14 00:05:27 <BlueMatt> look at bittorrent flash streaming
 17 2012-03-14 00:05:38 <BlueMatt> its just as secure as anything else and cuts down on bw by a shitton
 18 2012-03-14 00:06:08 <BlueMatt> but most content industry wont touch it because its p2p
 19 2012-03-14 00:06:24 <[Prayer]> yup... and if the media industry would have offered it first... they could have kept their advertising intact
 20 2012-03-14 00:06:52 <BlueMatt> also, the content industries arent gonna do that kinda thing, they just wont shift that fast to "protect their existing revenue models"
 21 2012-03-14 00:06:58 <BlueMatt> they even use that exact wording
 22 2012-03-14 00:07:25 <[Prayer]> that's what I'm saying.. they have blinders on
 23 2012-03-14 00:07:50 <BlueMatt> yea, thats my point, even if bram cohen makes something really awesome, they wont touch it
 24 2012-03-14 00:09:24 <Diablo-D3> wait
 25 2012-03-14 00:09:27 <Diablo-D3> that name sounds familiar
 26 2012-03-14 00:09:33 <BlueMatt> he mad bittorrent
 27 2012-03-14 00:09:36 <BlueMatt> e
 28 2012-03-14 00:09:37 <Diablo-D3> oh that guy
 29 2012-03-14 00:09:45 <BlueMatt> the autistic guy
 30 2012-03-14 00:09:48 <Diablo-D3> hes cool in my book
 31 2012-03-14 00:09:50 <[Prayer]> self-diagnosed
 32 2012-03-14 00:09:57 <BlueMatt> really?
 33 2012-03-14 00:10:01 <Diablo-D3> I dont think so
 34 2012-03-14 00:10:02 <BlueMatt> didnt know that
 35 2012-03-14 00:10:03 <[Prayer]> as I understand it
 36 2012-03-14 00:10:08 <Diablo-D3> hes been getting help for years for it iirc
 37 2012-03-14 00:10:25 <[Prayer]> oh... not autistic... aspergers
 38 2012-03-14 00:10:27 <BlueMatt> anyway, hes pretty good, but he doesnt have a good track record with content industries...
 39 2012-03-14 00:10:35 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: aspergers is a form of autism
 40 2012-03-14 00:10:38 <[Prayer]> which most genius-level hackers probably border on
 41 2012-03-14 00:10:46 <BlueMatt> yep
 42 2012-03-14 00:10:48 <Diablo-D3> vs "autism autism" which is conners autism (pronounced kanners)
 43 2012-03-14 00:11:18 <Diablo-D3> below DSM levels of aspergers is commonly called "geeks disease"
 44 2012-03-14 00:11:39 <Diablo-D3> or what people like I call, "posers"
 45 2012-03-14 00:11:52 <[Prayer]> I made the mistake of getting married 4 years ago... I have to settle for sudoku and other logic puzzles to get my peace
 46 2012-03-14 00:12:04 <[Prayer]> no time for serious geekery anymore :(
 47 2012-03-14 00:12:10 <BlueMatt> heh
 48 2012-03-14 00:12:11 <Diablo-D3> you married the wrong chick
 49 2012-03-14 00:12:16 <Diablo-D3> I will only marry a geek
 50 2012-03-14 00:12:33 <Diablo-D3> I dont care how ugly or fat or american she is
 51 2012-03-14 00:12:42 <BlueMatt> look at gmaxwell, I guess its not technically marriage, but she works for fucking wikipedia, so he gets to work on bitcoin all the time :)
 52 2012-03-14 00:12:43 <[Prayer]> lolz
 53 2012-03-14 00:13:10 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell gets around
 54 2012-03-14 00:13:16 <[Prayer]> I had a chance at a pretty cute geek, but she had some issues :/
 55 2012-03-14 00:13:21 <Diablo-D3> he shacks up with monty from xiph to get that shit done
 56 2012-03-14 00:13:24 <BlueMatt> (sorry if that wasnt public info, but he does use her nick on here...)
 57 2012-03-14 00:13:42 <[Prayer]> how many devs do bitcoin full time?
 58 2012-03-14 00:13:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: my 'logdb' branch
 59 2012-03-14 00:13:47 <BlueMatt> 0
 60 2012-03-14 00:13:58 <[Prayer]> how many would if the money were available?
 61 2012-03-14 00:14:17 <BlueMatt> I dont know, if we hired outside probably quite a few
 62 2012-03-14 00:14:18 <Diablo-D3> 0
 63 2012-03-14 00:14:27 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin itself is basically finished
 64 2012-03-14 00:14:28 <BlueMatt> otherwise, I think all you get is me over the summers...
 65 2012-03-14 00:14:35 <BlueMatt> maybe gavin
 66 2012-03-14 00:14:41 <Diablo-D3> 0.6 will probably jump to 0.9 and stay there about 10 years
 67 2012-03-14 00:14:47 <BlueMatt> though he deserves to be paid for what he does now anyway...
 68 2012-03-14 00:14:49 <[Prayer]> I can't believe it's finished...  it's not usable yet
 69 2012-03-14 00:14:57 <sipa> lol, finished
 70 2012-03-14 00:14:58 <Diablo-D3> its very usable
 71 2012-03-14 00:15:00 <[Prayer]> Dos wasn't finished until about windows 3
 72 2012-03-14 00:15:02 <BlueMatt> finished? why are we still not at 1.0 then?
 73 2012-03-14 00:15:02 <sipa> hardly
 74 2012-03-14 00:15:08 <[Prayer]> even then, it stuck around for a few more generations
 75 2012-03-14 00:15:13 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: FYI, Diablo-D3 is a troll. Just ignore him. :p
 76 2012-03-14 00:15:23 <Diablo-D3> Im a troll and a major bitcoin contributor
 77 2012-03-14 00:15:25 <[Prayer]> diablo: tel your grandmother it's usable :)
 78 2012-03-14 00:15:36 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: sure, she'd probably agree
 79 2012-03-14 00:15:49 <Diablo-D3> the problem isnt bitcoin, its all the associated software
 80 2012-03-14 00:15:51 <BlueMatt> you have a damn smart grandmother...
 81 2012-03-14 00:15:51 <[Prayer]> Diablo: then you come from a long line of geeks indeed
 82 2012-03-14 00:15:52 <Diablo-D3> ie, its missing
 83 2012-03-14 00:16:09 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: no, she hates computers and thinks Im wasting my time on this monopoly money generator
 84 2012-03-14 00:16:11 <[Prayer]> diablo: experienced coders lost 2600 bitcoins last year
 85 2012-03-14 00:16:18 <BlueMatt> well, ok bitcoin-proper is pretty well covered
 86 2012-03-14 00:16:23 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: I know, that was hilarious
 87 2012-03-14 00:16:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: there is no transactionality implemented yet, so if things go wrong, the wallet could end up in a weird state
 88 2012-03-14 00:16:30 <BlueMatt> satoshi client...not so much...
 89 2012-03-14 00:16:37 <Diablo-D3> sipa: thats because bdb sucks
 90 2012-03-14 00:16:41 <BlueMatt> its not bdb
 91 2012-03-14 00:16:42 <sipa> BlueMatt: and there is too little error handling, and no conversion
 92 2012-03-14 00:16:48 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i just replaced bdb
 93 2012-03-14 00:16:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, so caveat emptor...
 94 2012-03-14 00:17:02 <Diablo-D3> like I said, we'll jump from 0.6 to 0.9 and stay there a decade
 95 2012-03-14 00:17:06 <sipa> still, if you want to hammer it, be my guest
 96 2012-03-14 00:17:07 <Diablo-D3> the REAL issue however
 97 2012-03-14 00:17:08 <Diablo-D3> is
 98 2012-03-14 00:17:19 <Diablo-D3> we have no shit that uses bitcoin
 99 2012-03-14 00:17:30 <Diablo-D3> like, we need a paypal-quality merchant transaction frontend
100 2012-03-14 00:17:41 <BlueMatt> yep, and no legal precedent for anyone wanting to try either
101 2012-03-14 00:17:42 <[Prayer]> seroiusly though, what if the money were available to form a Bitcoin Foundation and have paid developers and other employees?
102 2012-03-14 00:17:43 <sipa> if bitcoin development stops after 0.6, armory and others will quickly take over
103 2012-03-14 00:17:54 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: probably
104 2012-03-14 00:17:57 <Diablo-D3> at least gavin
105 2012-03-14 00:18:07 <BlueMatt> [Prayer]: then at least gavin and maybe hire a few others to join
106 2012-03-14 00:18:20 <Diablo-D3> I think we need only one actually fulltime
107 2012-03-14 00:18:24 <BlueMatt> other than that, I dont know of anyone who would jump at the opportunity to quit their dayjob...
108 2012-03-14 00:18:27 <Diablo-D3> what we need is fulltimers on OTHER projects
109 2012-03-14 00:18:34 <Diablo-D3> which is the point Im trying to get across
110 2012-03-14 00:18:34 <[Prayer]> exactly
111 2012-03-14 00:18:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't have a day job for the moment ;)
112 2012-03-14 00:18:43 <BlueMatt> oh, well then gavin and sipa
113 2012-03-14 00:18:51 <[Prayer]> develop and promote the technology, currency, and related services
114 2012-03-14 00:18:58 <Diablo-D3> merchants wont accept bitcoin because they cant plug it into their fucking shopping basket checkout thingy frameworks
115 2012-03-14 00:19:42 <luke-jr> what Bitcoin needs is a killer merchant app :p
116 2012-03-14 00:19:51 <BlueMatt> yep
117 2012-03-14 00:19:54 <luke-jr> free POS terminals or something
118 2012-03-14 00:19:58 <Diablo-D3> thats what I said luke
119 2012-03-14 00:19:58 <luke-jr> that only work with Bitcoin
120 2012-03-14 00:19:59 <[Prayer]> or a killer service built on the same technology
121 2012-03-14 00:20:01 <BlueMatt> a drop-in paypal replacement which takes cc/bitcoin/etc
122 2012-03-14 00:20:09 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: not yet
123 2012-03-14 00:20:13 <BlueMatt> bitpal.com with the same api
124 2012-03-14 00:20:13 <Diablo-D3> because POS terminals are dead
125 2012-03-14 00:20:23 <Diablo-D3> its all going to be POS terminals that do nearfield communications with a cell phone
126 2012-03-14 00:20:24 <BlueMatt> s/paypal/bitpal/ everywhere and poof
127 2012-03-14 00:20:25 <[Prayer]> grain was currency... you could store it for years, and you can eat it
128 2012-03-14 00:20:35 <[Prayer]> gold could be turned into jewlery and has other uses
129 2012-03-14 00:20:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I bet you could get bitcoin.org for it ;p
130 2012-03-14 00:20:42 <luke-jr> .com*
131 2012-03-14 00:20:43 <[Prayer]> bitcion doesn't do anything by itself :(
132 2012-03-14 00:20:48 <Diablo-D3> gold's biggest use is industrial, [Prayer]
133 2012-03-14 00:20:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if you want to pay out the ass...
134 2012-03-14 00:20:58 <BlueMatt> but I would say focusing on bitcoin kills it
135 2012-03-14 00:21:03 <Diablo-D3> the gold that becomes monetary gold is about half a percent of the gold mined every year
136 2012-03-14 00:21:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sounds like TH's deal was mostly equity
137 2012-03-14 00:21:06 <BlueMatt> focus on payment, accept bitcoin
138 2012-03-14 00:21:14 <Diablo-D3> most of the non-monetary gold becomes electronics
139 2012-03-14 00:21:17 <Diablo-D3> the rest is jewlery
140 2012-03-14 00:21:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if it's a real killer app, a trivial limitation like requirign Bitcoin is no problem
141 2012-03-14 00:21:49 <luke-jr> if it's "just" a paypal replacement, then maybe
142 2012-03-14 00:22:00 <BlueMatt> true
143 2012-03-14 00:22:15 <BlueMatt> seems like for now the only app we get is silkroad
144 2012-03-14 00:22:19 <BlueMatt> damn shame its illegal
145 2012-03-14 00:22:25 <Diablo-D3> I want to see the rise of bitcoin banks
146 2012-03-14 00:22:27 <Diablo-D3> I mean, hell
147 2012-03-14 00:22:32 <Diablo-D3> you know what I would happily provide?
148 2012-03-14 00:22:40 <Diablo-D3> the FDC insurance of bitcoin banks.
149 2012-03-14 00:22:58 <BlueMatt> thats a no-win industry...but have fun
150 2012-03-14 00:23:13 <Diablo-D3> any bank that belongs to it must provide me their entire holding logs once a month
151 2012-03-14 00:23:23 <Diablo-D3> and have to pay 0.25% of their balances a month.
152 2012-03-14 00:23:52 <Diablo-D3> in turn, any bank that fails to meet it loses their insurance and gets a front page posting on major bitcoin websites telling people to transfer their money out
153 2012-03-14 00:24:14 <[Prayer]> diablo: one problem... that insurance isn't needed unless the currency is fractional reserve
154 2012-03-14 00:24:22 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: not at all
155 2012-03-14 00:24:23 <Diablo-D3> break ins.
156 2012-03-14 00:25:00 <[Prayer]> and you're going to generate new coins to replace them?
157 2012-03-14 00:25:06 <BlueMatt> site closings/disapearings
158 2012-03-14 00:25:15 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: nope
159 2012-03-14 00:25:23 <Diablo-D3> you think banks dont pay into FDIC?
160 2012-03-14 00:25:25 <Diablo-D3> you're silly
161 2012-03-14 00:25:33 <[Prayer]> I know they do
162 2012-03-14 00:25:40 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin banks will as well
163 2012-03-14 00:25:42 <[Prayer]> because they're on a fractional reserve
164 2012-03-14 00:25:55 <[Prayer]> they don't have enough cash to pay everyone's account if the call came
165 2012-03-14 00:26:18 <[Prayer]> you advocating for introducing fractional reserve banking to bitcoin?
166 2012-03-14 00:26:24 <Diablo-D3> FDIC also covers actual theft of currency
167 2012-03-14 00:27:13 <[Prayer]> oh... just plain old theft...
168 2012-03-14 00:28:01 <[Prayer]> well, I guess if you do loans and CDs... I wouldn't trust any bank that didn't make their margins known publicly
169 2012-03-14 00:28:13 <Diablo-D3> exactly, it'd require transparency
170 2012-03-14 00:28:16 <[Prayer]> or any bank that played the ponies
171 2012-03-14 00:28:21 <Diablo-D3> the moment the transparency stops the bank is effectively closed
172 2012-03-14 00:28:59 <[Prayer]> I hate to suggest it, but why not a p2p banking system that's owned by everyone and controlled by noone
173 2012-03-14 00:29:21 <[Prayer]> anyone who wants to put money away can also choose to loan it out
174 2012-03-14 00:29:40 <luke-jr> sounds like Bitcoin
175 2012-03-14 00:29:42 <[Prayer]> basically, a contract, which p2sh would already support
176 2012-03-14 00:30:02 <luke-jr> &
177 2012-03-14 00:30:15 <Diablo-D3> heh
178 2012-03-14 00:30:25 <Diablo-D3> the whole point of a bank is instant movement of money
179 2012-03-14 00:30:35 <[Prayer]> that's one purpose
180 2012-03-14 00:30:38 <[Prayer]> they also do loans
181 2012-03-14 00:30:41 <[Prayer]> and savings accounts
182 2012-03-14 00:30:49 <rasengan> One problem that I seem to come across, again and again is the difficulty in sending money internationally.  It's a real problem, and one that bitcoin is already set to solve once the use is more widespread.
183 2012-03-14 00:31:12 <[Prayer]> if bitcoin takes away the movement of money, why not something else to allow p2p loans?
184 2012-03-14 00:31:24 <[Prayer]> cut out the middle man
185 2012-03-14 00:31:37 <luke-jr> loans are just legal
186 2012-03-14 00:31:42 <luke-jr> you send money to A
187 2012-03-14 00:31:44 <luke-jr> A sends it back
188 2012-03-14 00:31:51 <Diablo-D3> [Prayer]: loans could be done
189 2012-03-14 00:31:56 <Diablo-D3> but it'd require a large scale operation
190 2012-03-14 00:32:01 <Diablo-D3> and non-anonyminity
191 2012-03-14 00:32:10 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather provide, say, an investment middleman
192 2012-03-14 00:32:39 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3: with a reputation system, loans can even be taken out by anon idenities.
193 2012-03-14 00:32:51 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: no
194 2012-03-14 00:32:57 <Diablo-D3> because I want to view their credit reports and such
195 2012-03-14 00:33:09 <luke-jr> da2ce7: that's part of the problem with the current financial system -.-
196 2012-03-14 00:33:37 <sipa> da2ce7: I wouldn't load any money to an identity that can just vanish, without any ability to sue anyone for it
197 2012-03-14 00:33:53 <Diablo-D3> hrm
198 2012-03-14 00:34:00 <Diablo-D3> I should actually start offering some sort of backed bitcoin currency
199 2012-03-14 00:34:00 <sipa> well, any serious amount of money
200 2012-03-14 00:34:03 <Diablo-D3> it'd be interesting to try it
201 2012-03-14 00:34:28 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3: I'm quite happy to help finance a VPN provider upstart company, who's owerns are anon... Yes they are anon... however they are already running a proffitable business... why distroy their reputation?
202 2012-03-14 00:35:15 <luke-jr> da2ce7: explain how ripping you off ruins their reputation with customers (the ones who pay them)?
203 2012-03-14 00:35:58 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: that'd be hilarious
204 2012-03-14 00:36:00 <da2ce7> luke-jr: becasue if they run with the money, then people are less liekly to trust them in the future.
205 2012-03-14 00:36:03 <Diablo-D3> vpn over tor or something
206 2012-03-14 00:36:10 <Diablo-D3> using special software to keep the tunnel up at all costs
207 2012-03-14 00:37:41 <da2ce7> when you are anon... the only thing you have is your reputation.
208 2012-03-14 00:40:40 <[Prayer]> but anon can blow the rep, then start over... you have no idea of Bob is really Tom or not
209 2012-03-14 00:41:02 <userbfj> samuel: hi
210 2012-03-14 00:41:16 <Samuel> Hi userbfj
211 2012-03-14 00:41:34 <userbfj> any new mockup?
212 2012-03-14 00:41:58 <userbfj> samuel: any new mockup?
213 2012-03-14 00:42:14 <Samuel> Did you see this one? http://cl.ly/3r3r0Y1x1u2U2G0P470G
214 2012-03-14 00:42:24 <userbfj> samuel: will see
215 2012-03-14 00:43:28 <mod6> Samuel: that looks awesome.
216 2012-03-14 00:43:36 <Samuel> Thanks
217 2012-03-14 00:43:42 <BlueMatt> have to say I kinda like the implemented one a bit better
218 2012-03-14 00:43:42 <da2ce7> [Prayer]: but an anon don't get a good rep from nothing... they normaly have to work for it :)
219 2012-03-14 00:43:48 <BlueMatt> but that may just be the big bitcoin logo
220 2012-03-14 00:43:51 <BlueMatt> seems too much to me
221 2012-03-14 00:44:13 <luke-jr> da2ce7: so they earn the loan they rip you off on, is that your point?
222 2012-03-14 00:45:09 <Samuel> I just thought your balance is the main attraction of the app, so why not have it big and easy to read at all times? But your right, most users will like the design we have been working on
223 2012-03-14 00:45:10 <userbfj> samuel: do you have the last screenshot from tcatm?
224 2012-03-14 00:45:38 <da2ce7> luke-jr: er... no.. but I wouldn't loan an anon entity more than I think that their reputation is worth.  It would be more profitable for them to remain honest, than to scam.
225 2012-03-14 00:45:46 <Samuel> userbfj: No, seems like he deletes his old ones so I have no idea
226 2012-03-14 00:46:53 <userbfj> samuel: will see if i find it
227 2012-03-14 00:47:00 <Samuel> Ok
228 2012-03-14 00:47:12 <BlueMatt> his last screenshot: http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert14.png
229 2012-03-14 00:48:06 <[Prayer]> da2ce7: nobody would be required to do anything... if you want positive id and insurance on the loan, you do that.  if luke wants to invest in an anonymous venture, that's his choice
230 2012-03-14 00:48:25 <Samuel> BlueMatt: thanks
231 2012-03-14 00:48:31 <forsetifox> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/122231-solar-panels-made-with-ion-cannon-are-cheap-enough-to-challenge-fossil-fuels
232 2012-03-14 00:48:51 <[Prayer]> BlueMatt, that's sexy
233 2012-03-14 00:49:23 <BlueMatt> /nod
234 2012-03-14 00:49:42 <Samuel> There need some font-choice changes and better icons (working on some now) but it's coming along :D
235 2012-03-14 00:49:42 <[Tycho]> TX icons are WAY too big
236 2012-03-14 00:50:06 <BlueMatt> yea, the recent tx stuff is out of place and could use some help...
237 2012-03-14 00:50:10 <luke-jr> Samuel: font is an OS config
238 2012-03-14 00:50:18 <BlueMatt> Id like to see a XX% count on the progress bar for sync
239 2012-03-14 00:50:30 <BlueMatt> but for the most part its damn nice
240 2012-03-14 00:50:32 <luke-jr> someone should test http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-eligius_miner/20120313c-bitcoin-0.6.0.eligius_miner-win32-setup.exe
241 2012-03-14 00:50:32 <Samuel> luke-jr: Does that mena you can change the font?
242 2012-03-14 00:50:33 <[Prayer]> Samuel: I like the layout... how about user-selectable windows?
243 2012-03-14 00:50:39 <[Tycho]> Make them adequate and you can fit twice more TXes
244 2012-03-14 00:50:45 <luke-jr> Samuel: it means you change your font in your OS settings
245 2012-03-14 00:50:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'd prefer "%i more blocks" in the progress bar
246 2012-03-14 00:51:02 <forsetifox> You made a bitcoin miner Luke?
247 2012-03-14 00:51:02 <luke-jr> sipa++
248 2012-03-14 00:51:08 <luke-jr> forsetifox: yes and no
249 2012-03-14 00:51:19 <userbfj> samuel: on sidebar, what you think remove the border
250 2012-03-14 00:51:20 <luke-jr> forsetifox: I contributed to cgminer, and integrated cgminer with Bitcoin-Qt
251 2012-03-14 00:51:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: whatever, some number
252 2012-03-14 00:51:21 <sipa> the progress bar is really confusing, both when it resets and not
253 2012-03-14 00:51:32 <BlueMatt> /nod
254 2012-03-14 00:51:34 <Samuel> luke-jr: Well the default font for the titles (Wallet, recent trans.) is a bit un-suitable
255 2012-03-14 00:51:37 <forsetifox> Ah.. interesting. So cgminer will have a front-end now?
256 2012-03-14 00:51:51 <luke-jr> Samuel: default is an OS thing
257 2012-03-14 00:51:54 <userbfj> samuel: and the selected menu have a courve
258 2012-03-14 00:52:02 <luke-jr> forsetifox: if you use that Bitcoin-Qt :p
259 2012-03-14 00:52:12 <forsetifox> Yeah, I do.
260 2012-03-14 00:52:19 <luke-jr> forsetifox: no, I mean the exact build I linked&
261 2012-03-14 00:52:35 <Samuel> userbfj: What kind of curve?
262 2012-03-14 00:53:00 <userbfj> samuel: let me see if i find a screenshot
263 2012-03-14 00:53:05 <Samuel> Ok
264 2012-03-14 00:53:30 <[Prayer]> only mines with eligius?
265 2012-03-14 00:53:36 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: yes
266 2012-03-14 00:53:57 <[Prayer]> why not settable for any pool?
267 2012-03-14 00:54:02 <[Prayer]> or does that come later?
268 2012-03-14 00:54:11 <luke-jr> because I have no interest in doing the work for that.
269 2012-03-14 00:54:13 <luke-jr> :p
270 2012-03-14 00:54:18 <[Prayer]> heh... figures
271 2012-03-14 00:54:22 <luke-jr> only Eligius can "just work"
272 2012-03-14 00:54:30 <luke-jr> other pools require registration etc
273 2012-03-14 00:54:36 <[Prayer]> ah
274 2012-03-14 00:54:45 <[Prayer]> so a framework would have to be built to support multiple pools
275 2012-03-14 00:54:53 <luke-jr> with this, you just check the "Generate Coins" box and wait for it to come in
276 2012-03-14 00:55:09 <[Tycho]> This way he wants to get more users :)
277 2012-03-14 00:55:12 <[Tycho]> Evil luke-jr
278 2012-03-14 00:55:37 <[Prayer]> what would it take to set up a low-hashrate subpool for p2pool?
279 2012-03-14 00:55:52 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: a lot. :p
280 2012-03-14 00:55:57 <[Prayer]> for the 24Mh/s folks like me :(
281 2012-03-14 00:56:06 <luke-jr> oh, you mean in general, or integrated?
282 2012-03-14 00:56:10 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: no reason not to use Eligius
283 2012-03-14 00:56:18 <[Prayer]> I'm on slush atm...
284 2012-03-14 00:56:30 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: Eligius supports the same kind of decentralized mining as p2pool
285 2012-03-14 00:56:30 <[Prayer]> thought about deepbit, but saw how big and scary it is
286 2012-03-14 00:56:32 <forsetifox> "sign message" What is this madness?
287 2012-03-14 00:56:41 <luke-jr> forsetifox: ?
288 2012-03-14 00:56:46 <[Prayer]> hmm... might give it a shot then
289 2012-03-14 00:56:51 <sipa> forsetifox: it allows you to sign messages!
290 2012-03-14 00:56:51 <userbfj> samuel: the courve, geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/n800os2k8_01.jpg
291 2012-03-14 00:56:55 <forsetifox> File -> Sign Message. Heh.
292 2012-03-14 00:56:56 <sipa> with an address
293 2012-03-14 00:57:07 <[Prayer]> how do I know I can trust fils on that site though?
294 2012-03-14 00:57:26 <sipa> [Prayer]: ?
295 2012-03-14 00:57:27 <forsetifox> This sign message thing is gonna get sooooo many ascii penii.
296 2012-03-14 00:57:28 <luke-jr> [Prayer]: ?
297 2012-03-14 00:57:31 <[Prayer]> lolz
298 2012-03-14 00:57:42 <[Prayer]> yankin yer chain man
299 2012-03-14 00:57:56 <Samuel> userbfj: Ah, I see. Thats a nice UI element but we would have to see if it is do-able
300 2012-03-14 00:58:49 <forsetifox> luke-jr: There's nothing that tells me what the miner is doing. >.>
301 2012-03-14 00:58:54 <userbfj> samuel: i would like to not have the sidebar border and add this kind of courve
302 2012-03-14 00:59:04 <luke-jr> forsetifox: there's an icon in the statusbar
303 2012-03-14 00:59:10 <[Prayer]> (gotta protect that 0.05btc I have stuffed away)
304 2012-03-14 00:59:11 <forsetifox> The picks come up and disappear.
305 2012-03-14 00:59:19 <sipa> hmmm, a github-backup package on hackage
306 2012-03-14 00:59:24 <userbfj> samuel: i don't like may lines
307 2012-03-14 00:59:26 <luke-jr> forsetifox: if it disappears, cgminer doesn't like your GPU :P
308 2012-03-14 00:59:33 <luke-jr> forsetifox: or it's buggy
309 2012-03-14 00:59:33 <userbfj> many
310 2012-03-14 00:59:41 <luke-jr> forsetifox: can you pastebin your debug.log
311 2012-03-14 00:59:59 <Samuel> userbfj: Yes, I agree. But like before we'll have to see if tcatm can do it
312 2012-03-14 01:01:02 <userbfj> samuel: my english is bad, so if you can explaing this to tcatm, wil be good
313 2012-03-14 01:01:04 <sipa> wow, github-backup includes all forks
314 2012-03-14 01:01:15 <forsetifox> http://pastebin.com/hFZ108vu
315 2012-03-14 01:01:18 <[Prayer]> hmm... ok, so I click generate, and nothing apparent happens?
316 2012-03-14 01:01:21 <Samuel> userbfj: For sure!
317 2012-03-14 01:01:44 <userbfj> samuel: not working on other parts of the gui?
318 2012-03-14 01:01:49 <luke-jr> sipa: :o
319 2012-03-14 01:02:02 <userbfj> samuel: thanks
320 2012-03-14 01:02:26 <Samuel> userbfj: We are going at tcatm's pase, so right now I think we are focusing on the Overview tab
321 2012-03-14 01:02:28 <luke-jr> forsetifox: can you confirm it installed cgminer.exe to your bitcoin dir, and that it runs?
322 2012-03-14 01:03:22 <forsetifox> Yeah. It runs. Asking for an URL.
323 2012-03-14 01:03:28 <luke-jr> hmmm
324 2012-03-14 01:03:30 <userbfj> samuel: could you creatr a mockup with my last idea?
325 2012-03-14 01:03:59 <userbfj> samuel: no sidebar border and the courves
326 2012-03-14 01:04:12 <Samuel> userbfj: Sure, working on transaction incoming, outgoing icons at the moment
327 2012-03-14 01:04:39 <userbfj> samuel: ok will let you free
328 2012-03-14 01:04:55 <Samuel> Ok
329 2012-03-14 01:05:13 <[Prayer]> luke, I get 'CreateProcess failed' in the debug log
330 2012-03-14 01:05:33 <[Prayer]> also an entry about cpu... not gpu
331 2012-03-14 01:07:50 <[Prayer]> oh well, I'll check back tomorrow sometime
332 2012-03-14 01:11:55 <luke-jr> forsetifox: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/a.exe
333 2012-03-14 01:12:09 <luke-jr> forsetifox: try that in the same dir, at a command prompt, please
334 2012-03-14 01:13:00 <forsetifox> Stick it in the daemon directory?
335 2012-03-14 01:13:48 <forsetifox> Application has failed to start because libgcc_s_sjlj-1.dll was not found.
336 2012-03-14 01:17:03 <luke-jr> forsetifox: redownload
337 2012-03-14 01:17:19 <forsetifox> The a.exe or the other one?
338 2012-03-14 01:17:39 <luke-jr> a.exe
339 2012-03-14 01:19:45 <forsetifox> CreateProcess failed. The specified image file did not conta.. in a resource section. cgminer: --cpu-threads: uncrecognized option.
340 2012-03-14 01:20:14 <luke-jr> O.o
341 2012-03-14 01:20:58 <luke-jr> forsetifox: ok, new a.exe to try
342 2012-03-14 01:21:58 <forsetifox> That works.
343 2012-03-14 01:22:10 <forsetifox> 19Mhash? Heh.
344 2012-03-14 01:22:21 <luke-jr> hmm
345 2012-03-14 01:22:25 <forsetifox> 14-37
346 2012-03-14 01:22:44 <luke-jr> forsetifox: no error at the start?
347 2012-03-14 01:23:16 <forsetifox> http://imgur.com/u92Qz
348 2012-03-14 01:23:19 <forsetifox> No error.
349 2012-03-14 01:24:02 <luke-jr> I see one ;P
350 2012-03-14 01:25:21 <forsetifox> Hm.. thought that was from the previous run.
351 2012-03-14 01:26:37 <Samuel> userbfj: http://cl.ly/13043y0U3J3F0E201G3d I went with a point instead of a curve because the app dosen't have many curves in it and it wouldn't fit in with the rest of the design.
352 2012-03-14 01:27:18 <BlueMatt> is that a modification of tcatm's screen, or code running?
353 2012-03-14 01:27:38 <Samuel> BlueMatt: a modification, I can't code.
354 2012-03-14 01:28:25 <BlueMatt> I like the lack of the border line, though Im not sure about the triangle cutout...
355 2012-03-14 01:28:36 <BlueMatt> as an idea its great, in practice...
356 2012-03-14 01:28:53 <Samuel> userbfj suggested it
357 2012-03-14 01:29:12 <Samuel> I'm not to sure about it either, doesn;t really fit in
358 2012-03-14 01:29:15 <userbfj> samuel: the courve will be betteg in my opnion
359 2012-03-14 01:29:20 <BlueMatt> like the new tx icons, though ofc smaller
360 2012-03-14 01:29:48 <luke-jr> I'd get rid of the Overview completely, and move Transactions to the top
361 2012-03-14 01:29:48 <userbfj> samuel: the no borders is good
362 2012-03-14 01:29:55 <Samuel> Yeah I don't like them so big as well, but I matched the size of the old ones
363 2012-03-14 01:30:21 <BlueMatt> yea
364 2012-03-14 01:30:25 <Samuel> juke-jr: I agree, there is not much use to the tab
365 2012-03-14 01:30:51 <BlueMatt> I dont like the default as tx list, but I agree there isnt much use for an overview tab
366 2012-03-14 01:31:09 <userbfj> samuel: i think is good keep the overview tab
367 2012-03-14 01:31:26 <BlueMatt> I like having an overview tab, but its largely pointless as it sits...
368 2012-03-14 01:31:41 <Samuel> userbfj: unless we add more elements to it its only adding unwanted space
369 2012-03-14 01:31:46 <userbfj> when be possible have many wallets
370 2012-03-14 01:32:20 <userbfj> informations of thw wallet
371 2012-03-14 01:32:32 <Samuel> userbfj: Like multiple wallets in one app?
372 2012-03-14 01:32:38 <userbfj> like total of address ondeaddress book
373 2012-03-14 01:32:45 <userbfj> yes
374 2012-03-14 01:33:01 <BlueMatt> again, we can add an overview tab if we add features which require it
375 2012-03-14 01:33:04 <BlueMatt> for now...
376 2012-03-14 01:33:16 <Samuel> Yes, definitely
377 2012-03-14 01:33:17 <BlueMatt> make a decision based on what we have, not what we may or will have
378 2012-03-14 01:33:21 <userbfj> date of wallet creation
379 2012-03-14 01:33:33 <userbfj> most used address
380 2012-03-14 01:33:44 <userbfj> ...
381 2012-03-14 01:33:51 <Samuel> So your kinda talking statistics? Hmmm
382 2012-03-14 01:33:58 <userbfj> hum
383 2012-03-14 01:34:02 <luke-jr> should be buried away somewhere IMO
384 2012-03-14 01:34:13 <userbfj> maybe you are correct
385 2012-03-14 01:34:34 <luke-jr> perhaps the Overview can be replaced with a webkit tab loading the wiki :P
386 2012-03-14 01:34:46 <Samuel> yeah, I was think that could be in the settings or preferences or somewhere, that info isn't referred to that often
387 2012-03-14 01:35:28 <Samuel> luke-jr: I always thought Wiki-intergration would be awesome
388 2012-03-14 01:35:43 <userbfj> samuel: i still like white background
389 2012-03-14 01:35:46 <luke-jr> only problem I see is making sure it doesn't make phishing easy
390 2012-03-14 01:35:49 <userbfj> for all
391 2012-03-14 01:35:53 <luke-jr> userbfj: colours are your OS settings
392 2012-03-14 01:36:06 <BlueMatt> except for how often the wiki goes down...
393 2012-03-14 01:36:06 <userbfj> hum
394 2012-03-14 01:36:46 <luke-jr> fine, integrated Tor+SilkRoad
395 2012-03-14 01:36:47 <luke-jr> <.<
396 2012-03-14 01:36:52 <Samuel> luke-jr: so we're basically making this app to fit around one's OS?
397 2012-03-14 01:37:02 <luke-jr> Samuel: that's what apps are supposed to do.
398 2012-03-14 01:37:31 <Samuel> Not all, I wasn't saying it was a bad idea. Its fine with me
399 2012-03-14 01:38:15 <userbfj> samuel: i think i don't like separation of sidebar with the pages
400 2012-03-14 01:38:31 <Samuel> userbfj: explain that a bit more
401 2012-03-14 01:38:32 <userbfj> the color much different
402 2012-03-14 01:39:06 <Samuel> userbfj: So you think the light blue should also be gray?
403 2012-03-14 01:39:49 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ...
404 2012-03-14 01:39:50 <userbfj> samuel: could you make a fast mockup with something white or near white
405 2012-03-14 01:39:57 <userbfj> just to see
406 2012-03-14 01:40:26 <userbfj> samuel: maybe i'm crazy
407 2012-03-14 01:42:14 <userbfj> samuel: just the overview tab white
408 2012-03-14 01:43:02 <userbfj> samuel: maybe i don't know what i want
409 2012-03-14 01:43:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: &
410 2012-03-14 02:04:09 <Raccoon> DO IT NOW.  You like Bitcoin?  You should know about Croptography!  Take the (absolutely) FREE Stanford University Online Cryptography Class and know a thing or two.  Lectures started today.  Sign up and watch them.  https://www.coursera.org/crypto/auth/welcome
411 2012-03-14 02:04:18 <[Tycho]> Spam ?
412 2012-03-14 02:04:57 <Raccoon> PS.  He talks about bitcoin. :)
413 2012-03-14 02:05:04 <Raccoon> no.
414 2012-03-14 02:05:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: CBlockStore still a pain to merge? :P
415 2012-03-14 02:18:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: shouldnt be, its up to date on master
416 2012-03-14 02:18:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I literally just rebased it like an hour ago
417 2012-03-14 02:18:48 <BlueMatt> a pain to merge onto random branches, probably
418 2012-03-14 02:19:11 <Diablo-D3> people need to use git flow more
419 2012-03-14 02:19:16 <BlueMatt> meaning?
420 2012-03-14 02:19:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's what I mean :P
421 2012-03-14 02:19:37 <BlueMatt> then yea probably
422 2012-03-14 02:19:48 <BlueMatt> you have a better way to move big chunks of code between files?
423 2012-03-14 02:19:52 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: meaning?
424 2012-03-14 02:20:14 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: meaning you need to learn to use google.
425 2012-03-14 02:21:07 <BlueMatt> oh, its a command, I thought you mean git workflow or some recommended way of using git
426 2012-03-14 02:21:19 <Diablo-D3> its a command that enforces a specific workflow
427 2012-03-14 02:21:23 <BlueMatt> ah
428 2012-03-14 02:21:39 <Diablo-D3> the workflow it enforces, btw, is basically the ultimate recommended practices for git
429 2012-03-14 02:21:57 <BlueMatt> mmm, so a lot of branching a merging on top of branches...
430 2012-03-14 02:22:52 <Diablo-D3> a lot of topic specific branching done in ways that are enforced to be named in ways that make sense, with rebased merging back into shit
431 2012-03-14 02:22:59 <Diablo-D3> it also manages release branches
432 2012-03-14 02:23:04 <Diablo-D3> and it also makes master useful
433 2012-03-14 02:23:13 <BlueMatt> mmm, fun
434 2012-03-14 02:23:21 <Diablo-D3> I use it for shit
435 2012-03-14 02:23:27 <Diablo-D3> even on projects that dont use git flow
436 2012-03-14 02:23:44 <Diablo-D3> and the best part
437 2012-03-14 02:23:46 <Diablo-D3> I can apt-get it.
438 2012-03-14 02:24:09 <Diablo-D3> even automatically installs git flow completion which isnt part of the main project
439 2012-03-14 02:24:28 <BlueMatt> nice
440 2012-03-14 02:24:34 <luke-jr> git flow is automated daggy fixes?
441 2012-03-14 02:25:06 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: no, with git flow, you dont make them to begin with
442 2012-03-14 02:25:41 <BlueMatt> we do a pretty good job with feature branching, not so much with branching releases, though luke is doing pretty well with that...
443 2012-03-14 02:26:54 <Diablo-D3> http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
444 2012-03-14 02:27:03 <Diablo-D3> thats how git flow works, but that was written before git flow was invented
445 2012-03-14 02:27:07 <Diablo-D3> git flow enforces that model
446 2012-03-14 02:28:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it'd be better if bugfixes got branched from the commit introducing the bug <.<
447 2012-03-14 02:29:06 <Diablo-D3> nope
448 2012-03-14 02:29:11 <Diablo-D3> because then you cant merge them properly
449 2012-03-14 02:29:35 <BlueMatt> agree with Diablo here
450 2012-03-14 02:29:45 <BlueMatt> everything should branch off something recent so that it is mergeable
451 2012-03-14 02:29:47 <BlueMatt> imho
452 2012-03-14 02:29:56 <Diablo-D3> git flow handles bug fix branches
453 2012-03-14 02:29:57 <BlueMatt> even if its not as "sane" it maintains merger sanity
454 2012-03-14 02:30:06 <luke-jr> on the contrary, you can ONLY merge them properly if they're branched from the commit that introduced them
455 2012-03-14 02:30:13 <freewil> yeah sometimes i will reference the commit hash is the commit message, github nicely links that
456 2012-03-14 02:30:27 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: committing into master (and develop in git flow land) is a sin
457 2012-03-14 02:30:27 <luke-jr> if there's a conflict somewhere, you can always resolve it at that point with an extra merge
458 2012-03-14 02:30:52 <BlueMatt> which is a pain
459 2012-03-14 02:30:52 <Diablo-D3> also, merges that produce the merge message are inherently wrong
460 2012-03-14 02:30:55 <luke-jr> but most of the time, a bugfix will merge cleanly
461 2012-03-14 02:30:57 <Diablo-D3> always fucking rebase.
462 2012-03-14 02:31:03 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no u
463 2012-03-14 02:31:04 <Diablo-D3> git flow rebases habitually
464 2012-03-14 02:31:08 <luke-jr> rebasing destroys history
465 2012-03-14 02:31:12 <Diablo-D3> are you gay, luke?
466 2012-03-14 02:31:13 <Diablo-D3> seriously
467 2012-03-14 02:31:21 <Diablo-D3> you must suck dicks like a chain smoker smokes
468 2012-03-14 02:31:34 <Diablo-D3> I have never met someone so fucking retarded in quite some time
469 2012-03-14 02:31:46 <Diablo-D3> you should have your commit rights pulled and told to fuck off before you cause any more damage
470 2012-03-14 02:32:06 <BlueMatt> damn Diablo-D3
471 2012-03-14 02:32:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's only a "pain" because git log has stupid defaults :p
472 2012-03-14 02:32:43 <luke-jr> bzr log hides the 2nd parent by default, so just giving proper commit messages to merges makes it nice
473 2012-03-14 02:33:16 <luke-jr> ie, like git log --first-parent
474 2012-03-14 02:37:52 <luke-jr> otoh, --no-merges might look even better
475 2012-03-14 02:38:22 <BlueMatt> wait, if the new bip16 eval date is on mar 15, havent we already missed 50%?
476 2012-03-14 02:38:30 <BlueMatt> (over the past week on mar 15)
477 2012-03-14 02:39:01 <BlueMatt> can we just say fuck it and move on with rollout on april 1st?
478 2012-03-14 02:39:08 <luke-jr> ^
479 2012-03-14 02:39:55 <BlueMatt> every other commit fails....
480 2012-03-14 02:39:58 <luke-jr> that, and it also gives it a full merge window to get testing
481 2012-03-14 02:40:06 <BlueMatt> yea, absolutely
482 2012-03-14 02:40:18 <luke-jr> hmm
483 2012-03-14 02:40:25 <luke-jr> it's going to make backports a pain for me, isn't it? :D
484 2012-03-14 02:40:31 <BlueMatt> yep
485 2012-03-14 02:40:43 <BlueMatt> its actually not as bad as it seems
486 2012-03-14 02:40:59 <BlueMatt> though it will fail to automatically backport, almost all code has a very clear equivalent
487 2012-03-14 02:41:09 <BlueMatt> actually, all code does
488 2012-03-14 02:41:16 <BlueMatt> cblockstore looks bigger than it really is
489 2012-03-14 02:44:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did you ever get around to writing that automatic nonstd tx stealer?
490 2012-03-14 02:44:23 <BlueMatt> actually, I guess not since I would have lost coins earlier today
491 2012-03-14 02:44:31 <BlueMatt> you really should get on that ;)
492 2012-03-14 02:46:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes, it's online
493 2012-03-14 02:46:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not sure why it missed that
494 2012-03-14 02:46:58 <luke-jr> it's very dumb though
495 2012-03-14 02:47:03 <BlueMatt> is it not a proxy in front of the eligius relay thing?
496 2012-03-14 02:47:05 <forrestv> nonstd tx stealer?
497 2012-03-14 02:47:05 <luke-jr> just tries any number of OP_1s
498 2012-03-14 02:47:09 <forrestv> ah
499 2012-03-14 02:47:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, I run it locally
500 2012-03-14 02:47:22 <BlueMatt> oh, thats a fail, you should just chain txouts and see if it still spends right
501 2012-03-14 02:47:29 <BlueMatt> s/chain/change/
502 2012-03-14 02:47:36 <BlueMatt> if its still valid, you stole the coins :)
503 2012-03-14 02:47:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: meh, lazy
504 2012-03-14 02:47:44 <BlueMatt> yea, but that is simpler
505 2012-03-14 02:47:51 <luke-jr> is that what happened with the fake BIP 16?
506 2012-03-14 02:48:01 <BlueMatt> fake? you mean semi-valid?
507 2012-03-14 02:48:06 <BlueMatt> its in the chain
508 2012-03-14 02:48:08 <luke-jr> simpler, but you have to find the block
509 2012-03-14 02:48:26 <luke-jr> mine doesn't wait for another person to try to spend it
510 2012-03-14 02:49:03 <BlueMatt> ah, well you should do that one and put it as a proxy in front of eligius (since everyone sends nonstd txes to eligus anyway)
511 2012-03-14 02:49:18 <luke-jr> doesn't seem as likely to pay off
512 2012-03-14 02:49:33 <BlueMatt> meh, you would have gotten a few bitcent today
513 2012-03-14 02:49:42 <luke-jr> I'm used to more income than that :p
514 2012-03-14 02:50:10 <BlueMatt> hey, thats a few bitcent you wouldnt have otherwise had ;)
515 2012-03-14 02:50:37 <BlueMatt> why wont bitcoin-qt start in valgrind???
516 2012-03-14 02:51:07 <BlueMatt> in fucking QtCore...
517 2012-03-14 02:51:54 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what the memory bandwidth of a radeon with underclocked memory is
518 2012-03-14 02:53:23 <BlueMatt> arg valgrind bug..now I have to backport...
519 2012-03-14 02:53:24 <BlueMatt> fuck
520 2012-03-14 02:58:52 <BlueMatt> can we make bitcoin-qt.pro default to debug build and just not release as such?
521 2012-03-14 03:06:09 <gjs278> over 9000 memory bandwidth
522 2012-03-14 03:06:26 <BlueMatt> ITS OVER 9k!!!!!!
523 2012-03-14 03:06:28 <BlueMatt> 1111one
524 2012-03-14 03:06:47 <BlueMatt> ...
525 2012-03-14 03:08:50 <[Tycho]> "luke-jr: just tries any number of OP_1s" - strange way of solving txes :)
526 2012-03-14 03:09:51 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: you created strange txes today ?
527 2012-03-14 03:10:08 <BlueMatt> to steal your like .03 BTC
528 2012-03-14 03:10:22 <BlueMatt> only spent
529 2012-03-14 03:11:20 <[Tycho]> Hmm, may be I really should create some kind of automatic solver... Sadly strange TXes happen so rarely those days :(
530 2012-03-14 03:12:46 <BlueMatt> sadly? thats a good thing
531 2012-03-14 03:12:56 <BlueMatt> well I suppose unless you want to steal them
532 2012-03-14 03:13:23 <[Tycho]> Why it's good ? That's one of the funnies parts of the blockchain.
533 2012-03-14 03:17:55 <Diablo-D3> _ahaha_
534 2012-03-14 03:17:57 <Diablo-D3> I murdered it
535 2012-03-14 03:18:04 <Diablo-D3> 1.6 mhash
536 2012-03-14 03:20:08 <Diablo-D3> oh wait made it too big
537 2012-03-14 03:24:43 <[Tycho]> 40m without a block again...
538 2012-03-14 03:25:14 <forrestv> everyone must have stopped mining!
539 2012-03-14 03:25:25 <Graet> yes yes thats it!
540 2012-03-14 03:27:42 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: they're joking.
541 2012-03-14 03:27:48 <Diablo-D3> 512mb divided by 4 gives me 128mb, divided by 4 gives 32 million hashes
542 2012-03-14 03:27:55 <Diablo-D3> thats not quite big enough
543 2012-03-14 03:29:22 <Diablo-D3> actually maybe it is
544 2012-03-14 03:29:32 <Diablo-D3> thats like 10 fps on my card
545 2012-03-14 03:31:39 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, except sizes that big are slow
546 2012-03-14 03:38:44 <freewil> twobitcoins, FYI: * twobitcoins (~twobitcoi@ip98-163-231-30.no.no.cox.net) has joined #bitcoin-dev
547 2012-03-14 03:39:29 <Diablo-D3> lol
548 2012-03-14 03:39:31 <Diablo-D3> dm is using
549 2012-03-14 03:39:33 <Diablo-D3> 100% cpu
550 2012-03-14 03:40:06 <Diablo-D3> huh
551 2012-03-14 03:40:38 <Diablo-D3> 300 mhash given the amount of reand and writing I'm doing
552 2012-03-14 03:40:40 <Diablo-D3> 303
553 2012-03-14 03:43:53 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, sorry, I broke it
554 2012-03-14 03:45:33 <Diablo-D3> so my clever idea, it didnt work
555 2012-03-14 03:45:34 <Diablo-D3> oh well
556 2012-03-14 03:45:54 <[Tycho]> Wow, 1h reached...
557 2012-03-14 03:49:53 <BlueMatt> damn, miners are getting unlucky...
558 2012-03-14 03:50:55 <[Tycho]> And the queue is at 600+ again
559 2012-03-14 03:53:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Eligius will find the next block soon
560 2012-03-14 03:54:03 <BlueMatt> why are you so confident?
561 2012-03-14 03:54:14 <luke-jr> I'm prayin.
562 2012-03-14 03:54:28 <[Tycho]> MM did it
563 2012-03-14 03:54:58 <BlueMatt> must've been
564 2012-03-14 03:55:10 <[Tycho]> But this doesn't counts since no TXes inside
565 2012-03-14 03:57:33 <[Tycho]> I wonder if I should do something about MM
566 2012-03-14 03:57:46 <BlueMatt> like?
567 2012-03-14 03:58:08 <[Tycho]> Check if only my node is used for relaying.
568 2012-03-14 04:00:06 <[Tycho]> Well, at least poolhoppers are fooled by those blocks :)
569 2012-03-14 04:00:25 <luke-jr> Eligius upgraded to today's next-test, with BIP 16
570 2012-03-14 04:01:05 <luke-jr> hmm
571 2012-03-14 04:01:10 <Graet> LOL [Tycho] ftw :)
572 2012-03-14 04:01:11 <luke-jr> next-test doesn't build for win32
573 2012-03-14 04:01:36 <Graet> maybe thats someones devious ploy behind all this
574 2012-03-14 04:01:53 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: have you moved all your mining to bip16 now?
575 2012-03-14 04:02:08 <[Tycho]> Graet: for example - mine ? :)
576 2012-03-14 04:02:14 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: almost.
577 2012-03-14 04:02:21 <BlueMatt> why does tycho care about pool hoppers?
578 2012-03-14 04:02:33 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: so you are doing it tonight?
579 2012-03-14 04:02:34 <Graet> [Tycho], you get accused of so much man, i thought i wouldnt ;)
580 2012-03-14 04:02:40 <Graet> but is it?
581 2012-03-14 04:02:41 <Graet> lmao
582 2012-03-14 04:02:55 <BlueMatt> heh, [Tycho] has a secret mining facility where he is MM
583 2012-03-14 04:03:00 <Graet> hehe
584 2012-03-14 04:03:02 <BlueMatt> no wonder all the blocks are relayed by him
585 2012-03-14 04:03:08 <gringles> [Tycho]'s pool rox
586 2012-03-14 04:03:38 <Graet> i think i'll start relaying ozcoins blocks thru deepbit too, see if we can help ad to the confusion\n3125851
587 2012-03-14 04:03:41 <Graet> >.>
588 2012-03-14 04:03:54 <BlueMatt> heh
589 2012-03-14 04:04:11 <BlueMatt> I think we should get luke-jr to start relaying eligius blocks through deepbit
590 2012-03-14 04:04:14 <BlueMatt> just to really fuck with people
591 2012-03-14 04:04:18 <Graet> hehe
592 2012-03-14 04:04:20 <luke-jr> Graet: Eligius did that when our IPv4 was DDoS'd& <.<
593 2012-03-14 04:04:26 <BlueMatt> hah
594 2012-03-14 04:04:27 <Graet> why not just ALL the pools
595 2012-03-14 04:04:32 <BlueMatt> ofc
596 2012-03-14 04:04:43 <luke-jr> hey, I could only connect within the same dc!
597 2012-03-14 04:04:44 <BlueMatt> lets get EVERYONE to relay through one really random ip
598 2012-03-14 04:04:49 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: his blocks are very different.
599 2012-03-14 04:04:51 <BlueMatt> really obscure
600 2012-03-14 04:05:15 <BlueMatt> lets just confuse the shit out of blockchain.info
601 2012-03-14 04:06:54 <Graet> luke-jr, you could have uewd our eu nod too ;)
602 2012-03-14 04:07:09 <Graet> BlueMatt, - i like yoyr style :)
603 2012-03-14 04:07:11 <Graet> lets :P
604 2012-03-14 04:07:19 <BlueMatt> now we just have to convince miners...
605 2012-03-14 04:07:33 <Graet> hehe
606 2012-03-14 04:07:47 <Graet> well enough jocularity, gotta go do some irl stuff :(
607 2012-03-14 04:07:50 <Graet> l8rs guys
608 2012-03-14 04:07:58 <BlueMatt> see ya
609 2012-03-14 04:09:53 <luke-jr> Graet: well, I didn't stop bitcoind from connecting whereever it could :p
610 2012-03-14 04:10:20 <luke-jr> OK, Windows build failure in next-test blamed on mndrix
611 2012-03-14 04:10:26 <luke-jr> mndrix: fix ur crap! :P
612 2012-03-14 04:12:18 <BlueMatt> commit?
613 2012-03-14 04:14:27 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/917
614 2012-03-14 04:14:32 <captain^k> mod6: eventually, yeah
615 2012-03-14 04:15:09 <captain^k> mod6: I then installed 0.6.0 rc3 and started with a new wallet once I got it out of the old one
616 2012-03-14 04:45:30 <mod6> captain^k: ahh, cool man. glad it worked out :)
617 2012-03-14 04:47:50 <jm9000> BlueMatt, are you here?
618 2012-03-14 04:48:19 <BlueMatt> yea
619 2012-03-14 04:50:53 <jm9000> Hey I got kind of a noob question for you. That BIP to add a pong message. Why exactly is there a ping/pong in the first place? Why bother checking if a host is stale (especially on mobile devices where transmissions are costly)? Why not just make the request, and if it times out then assume the connection is stale?
620 2012-03-14 04:51:52 <jm9000> Actually, maybe that wasn't a BIP, just a change that was made.
621 2012-03-14 04:54:14 <BlueMatt> pending change
622 2012-03-14 04:54:57 <BlueMatt> because a node may be overloaded and thus the connection may be fine, so you may want to keep it, but you may not want to continue asking it for blocks or whatever because you know its not gonna respond quickly
623 2012-03-14 04:57:25 <BlueMatt> arg...wtf valgrind+wine was working fine now it just refuses to start at all...
624 2012-03-14 04:57:31 <BlueMatt> oh well Ill try again tomorrow...
625 2012-03-14 04:57:34 <BlueMatt> gnight all
626 2012-03-14 04:58:06 <mod6> night
627 2012-03-14 04:58:51 <jm9000> Interesting, thanks.
628 2012-03-14 05:37:35 <zeiris> So, if I don't shutdown bitcoin cleanly (such as during a power loss) it comes out with: EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
629 2012-03-14 05:37:38 <zeiris> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
630 2012-03-14 05:37:54 <zeiris> Is there a way to recover, short of deleting the entire downloaded blockchain and starting from scratch?
631 2012-03-14 06:00:40 <captain^k> zeiris: possibly
632 2012-03-14 07:26:41 <t7> at what point does the blockchain become 'too big'?
633 2012-03-14 07:26:47 <t7> 2gb? 5 10 ?
634 2012-03-14 07:44:58 <[Tycho]> What is minimum fee for 999 bytes TX in standard bitcoind ?
635 2012-03-14 07:46:29 <gmaxwell> 0. (assuming it has high enough priority to be free)
636 2012-03-14 07:48:42 <gmaxwell> (otherwise 0.0005)
637 2012-03-14 07:49:55 <gmaxwell> (999/1000 = 0)
638 2012-03-14 08:01:56 <[Tycho]> Will it be 0.001 for 1000 bytes ?
639 2012-03-14 08:05:10 <gmaxwell> Yes.
640 2012-03-14 08:05:42 <gmaxwell> (again, if it's not zero it usually is, depends on the inputs)
641 2012-03-14 08:07:03 <[Tycho]> I'm talking about non-free zone.
642 2012-03-14 08:07:05 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
643 2012-03-14 08:29:18 <kish> sipa, problem solved yet?
644 2012-03-14 09:45:56 <t7> ;;hrlp
645 2012-03-14 09:45:57 <gribble> Error: "hrlp" is not a valid command.
646 2012-03-14 09:46:32 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
647 2012-03-14 09:46:32 <t7> !facts
648 2012-03-14 10:58:33 <t7> can someone paste the http request for https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29 curl example please
649 2012-03-14 11:43:19 <user_> tcatm: hi
650 2012-03-14 11:55:12 <t7> it takes 3 seconds to get a responce from bitcoind in my webserver
651 2012-03-14 11:55:21 <t7> but from the console it takes less than 1 seconds
652 2012-03-14 11:55:36 <upb> bitcoind is not webscale
653 2012-03-14 12:12:21 <t7> lol
654 2012-03-14 12:15:49 <t7> is the rpc any faster?
655 2012-03-14 12:19:05 <lianj> did you not use the rpc?
656 2012-03-14 12:19:19 <t7> no just started a bitcoind process
657 2012-03-14 12:19:24 <t7> with whatever args
658 2012-03-14 12:19:33 <t7> then read the stdout
659 2012-03-14 12:19:47 <lianj> try the rpc
660 2012-03-14 12:22:31 <t7> should have written this in node
661 2012-03-14 12:22:38 <t7> no silly parsing todo
662 2012-03-14 12:25:00 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
663 2012-03-14 12:25:00 <Qvex23> !facts
664 2012-03-14 12:27:15 <archo47> hey i have a problem installing mcafee internet security 2012, everytime i try to do it, my computer starts freezing after reboot
665 2012-03-14 12:27:55 <denisx> archo47: wrong channel
666 2012-03-14 12:28:12 <upb> t7: what do you mean by parsing
667 2012-03-14 12:28:22 <t7> parsing the json
668 2012-03-14 12:28:23 <upb> there are json libs for a whole bunch of languages
669 2012-03-14 12:28:39 <t7> also creating http request in java is about 500 LOC
670 2012-03-14 12:28:49 <upb> so you dont need to invent any regexp/strstr 'parsing' crap
671 2012-03-14 12:28:51 <archo47> denisx: oh, what hchannel should i try?
672 2012-03-14 12:29:11 <denisx> archo47: #windows
673 2012-03-14 12:29:29 <archo47> ohps my mistake
674 2012-03-14 12:29:32 <archo47> i thought i was there
675 2012-03-14 13:12:44 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened issue 937 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/937>
676 2012-03-14 13:55:34 <t7> well using rpc has managed to shave a whopping .5 of a second off
677 2012-03-14 13:55:42 <t7> so responce is still 2.5 :|
678 2012-03-14 13:57:59 <luke-jr> t7: try the threading patch
679 2012-03-14 13:58:33 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/568
680 2012-03-14 14:01:56 <lianj> webserver is also a pretty generic term
681 2012-03-14 14:02:20 <t7> play framework application
682 2012-03-14 14:03:57 <t7> im just gonna implement a loading screen
683 2012-03-14 14:04:05 <lianj> sure its not how you handle the fetching from within there?
684 2012-03-14 14:04:12 <luke-jr> t7: Also, please comment on how much (if at all) that patch helps, on the pullreq.
685 2012-03-14 14:04:21 <t7> lianj: 99% i did put a timer inside the method to make sure
686 2012-03-14 14:04:34 <luke-jr> t7: if you can use keepalive, that should massively improve performance.
687 2012-03-14 14:05:05 <lianj> t7: you do fork out or use some http connection class they provide?
688 2012-03-14 14:05:17 <lianj> ofc what luke-jr said too
689 2012-03-14 14:08:46 <t7> wtf its down to 12ms now
690 2012-03-14 14:08:49 <t7> what did i do
691 2012-03-14 14:09:13 <lianj> git diff :P
692 2012-03-14 14:09:14 <luke-jr> lol
693 2012-03-14 14:10:27 <luke-jr> sipa: ping
694 2012-03-14 14:11:15 <luke-jr> sipa: d68dcf7 (sipa/minireorg, origin-pull/930/head) Limit the impact of reorganisations on the database
695 2012-03-14 14:11:23 <luke-jr> sipa: no reason to hold 0.5.3 back for this, I presume?
696 2012-03-14 14:12:40 <sipa> it's a general improvement, but mostly for people whose database qas messed up by rc1
697 2012-03-14 14:12:52 <sipa> so, indeed
698 2012-03-14 14:13:22 <luke-jr> OK, let's go ahead and rename rc4 to final then
699 2012-03-14 14:13:27 <luke-jr> unless there's anything else I'm missing
700 2012-03-14 14:13:42 <luke-jr> tcatm: ping
701 2012-03-14 14:14:06 <t7> i wonder if there are any organisations using bitcoin to move money overseas. I guess bitcoin -> money and back is still an issue
702 2012-03-14 14:14:10 <tcatm> luke-jr: pong
703 2012-03-14 14:14:20 <luke-jr> tcatm: will you be around for pullreq on website?
704 2012-03-14 14:14:22 <luke-jr> nanotube: ping
705 2012-03-14 14:15:01 <tcatm> luke-jr: Yep. I'll probably  be around for the next few hours.
706 2012-03-14 14:18:42 <t7> should i be able to crash bitcoin-qt from the daemon or json rpc?
707 2012-03-14 14:18:49 <t7> because it does every now and then
708 2012-03-14 14:25:06 <Raccoon> Happy Pi Day!  3.14
709 2012-03-14 14:26:03 <luke-jr> t7: know why?
710 2012-03-14 14:26:17 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/ is ready for uploading; binaries identical to rc4
711 2012-03-14 14:37:44 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 17 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/17>
712 2012-03-14 14:38:01 <luke-jr> ^ that's still pending on uploads
713 2012-03-14 14:40:00 <luke-jr> sipa: wanna push the tag to github?
714 2012-03-14 14:48:01 <tcatm> luke-jr: Is pull/17 ready to be merged?
715 2012-03-14 14:52:17 <t7> http://tomcumming.co.uk :3
716 2012-03-14 14:52:48 <luke-jr> tcatm: not until nanotube uploads the files to SF
717 2012-03-14 14:53:00 <luke-jr> (or anyone else, I guess)
718 2012-03-14 14:53:09 <t7> my name looks like a porn video
719 2012-03-14 14:55:59 <tcatm> luke-jr: kk. just highlight me here once it's ready and I'll merge it
720 2012-03-14 15:27:04 <forsetifox> luke-jr !
721 2012-03-14 15:29:40 <forsetifox> The bitcoin client you had me test yesterday corrupted my wallet. =/
722 2012-03-14 15:30:07 <BlueMatt> hah
723 2012-03-14 15:30:22 <BlueMatt> hope you had a backup...
724 2012-03-14 15:30:26 <forsetifox> Nope.
725 2012-03-14 15:30:30 <BlueMatt> oh, shit
726 2012-03-14 15:30:38 <BlueMatt> well to bitcointools you go
727 2012-03-14 15:30:54 <forsetifox> But there isn't much in there. With all the corrupted wallets I've seen in the past days I decided to keep my bitcoins on Gox.
728 2012-03-14 15:31:18 <BlueMatt> "all the corrupted wallets I've seen in the past days" running on what builds?
729 2012-03-14 15:31:48 <forsetifox> 0.6.0beta can open it but not the 0.5.4 (I think).
730 2012-03-14 15:31:58 <BlueMatt> hmmm...
731 2012-03-14 15:32:07 <BlueMatt> also, we dont have a 0.5.4
732 2012-03-14 15:32:12 <BlueMatt> we barely have a 0.5.3...
733 2012-03-14 15:32:18 <gavinandresen> The 0.6 release notes clearly state that 0.6 wallets are incompatible with earlier releases.
734 2012-03-14 15:32:45 <forsetifox> luke-jr didn't say anything about that. >.>
735 2012-03-14 15:33:06 <forsetifox> Is there a way to get version number from the bitcoin client without running it?
736 2012-03-14 15:33:20 <BlueMatt> does right click->properties not show it?
737 2012-03-14 15:33:33 <gavinandresen> mmmm.... wait.... reading release notes.....
738 2012-03-14 15:33:54 <forsetifox> Right click the exe and hit details says it was modifed 1.29.2011
739 2012-03-14 15:34:02 <forsetifox> That's MY bitcoin client.
740 2012-03-14 15:34:05 <BlueMatt> I thought it stored a version in there...
741 2012-03-14 15:34:08 <BlueMatt> or maybe thats only the setup exde
742 2012-03-14 15:34:10 <BlueMatt> exe*
743 2012-03-14 15:34:28 <gavinandresen> (#%@!@#$)(*!#@$ .... release notes don't say that 0.6 wallets may be incompatible with earlier releases.... gotta fix that)
744 2012-03-14 15:34:34 <jm9000> 0.6.0rc3 is giving me an assertion error on start
745 2012-03-14 15:34:37 <forsetifox> Oh, it's in the readme. Heh.
746 2012-03-14 15:34:44 <BlueMatt> jm9000: care to elaborate?
747 2012-03-14 15:34:45 <forsetifox> 0.5.3 beta.
748 2012-03-14 15:34:58 <jm9000> Yep.
749 2012-03-14 15:35:12 <jm9000> http://i.imgur.com/6BMwO.png
750 2012-03-14 15:35:26 <jm9000> I'm trying to isolate and see if my block chain was corrupted or something.
751 2012-03-14 15:35:44 <jm9000> Will take a while. Need to setup a new VM for it.
752 2012-03-14 15:40:43 <jm9000> Is there anything in the client that detects if your wallet was updated by a newer client version to protect against a potential corruption?
753 2012-03-14 15:41:17 <BlueMatt> yea, the wallet has a min version flag in it
754 2012-03-14 15:41:25 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: may be? I thought it was intentionally prevented now
755 2012-03-14 15:43:56 <BlueMatt> it doesnt
756 2012-03-14 15:47:26 <jm9000> Have automatic daily backups of the wallet been considered as a feature for inclusion in the client?
757 2012-03-14 15:47:49 <BlueMatt> yes
758 2012-03-14 15:48:00 <BlueMatt> its on the universally-mentally-held todo list
759 2012-03-14 15:48:20 <jm9000> Ah, I see.
760 2012-03-14 15:48:26 <Graet> i have a backup of that list
761 2012-03-14 15:48:40 <BlueMatt> that defeats the purpose...
762 2012-03-14 15:48:56 <Graet> sigh...wrong again
763 2012-03-14 15:49:10 <Graet> curls*
764 2012-03-14 15:49:12 <BlueMatt> ;)
765 2012-03-14 15:49:15 <Graet> ;)
766 2012-03-14 15:49:22 <BlueMatt> curl, now thats a fun library
767 2012-03-14 15:49:56 <BlueMatt> though the url "up in the corner and weeps" doesnt make much sense...
768 2012-03-14 15:51:57 <luke-jr> jm9000: pretty sure permanent backups will be done sooner tho
769 2012-03-14 15:52:16 <luke-jr> jm9000: that is, you backup once and it's good for life
770 2012-03-14 15:52:50 <jm9000> Snapshots?
771 2012-03-14 15:53:17 <luke-jr> jm9000: ?
772 2012-03-14 15:53:43 <jm9000> I don't get what you mean by "permanent backup".
773 2012-03-14 15:55:01 <luke-jr> jm9000: a backup that doesn't get stale
774 2012-03-14 15:56:23 <jm9000> So everytime a wallet change is recorded, it will update the backup copy as well?
775 2012-03-14 15:56:45 <luke-jr> & no
776 2012-03-14 15:56:51 <luke-jr> the wallet simply won't need to change.
777 2012-03-14 16:02:17 <jm9000> Totally don't get it. I thought the wallet had to change every time you generated a new address. You must be talking about something way over my head.
778 2012-03-14 16:02:40 <luke-jr> jm9000: right now it does.
779 2012-03-14 16:02:57 <luke-jr> jm9000: but with deterministic wallets, you can calculate all the new keys from a single master key
780 2012-03-14 16:07:32 <jm9000> I found gmaxwell's forum post on it. Interesting idea.
781 2012-03-14 16:08:24 <jm9000> That wouldn't account for imported keys, but I realize that would likely be a tiny minority of users.
782 2012-03-14 16:09:18 <BlueMatt> sipa has it implemented in bitcoin-qt, and armory does it too
783 2012-03-14 16:10:41 <jm9000> That's pretty awesome.
784 2012-03-14 16:11:25 <jm9000> Is there any plan/timeline for the mainline client to eventually rely on libcoin?
785 2012-03-14 16:14:48 <BlueMatt> Ive never seen the libcoin author look to get merged
786 2012-03-14 16:14:53 <BlueMatt> seems like he wants to keep it a fork
787 2012-03-14 16:17:16 <jrmithdobbs> he obviously does
788 2012-03-14 16:17:19 <jrmithdobbs> or it wouldn't be gpl3
789 2012-03-14 16:17:22 <jrmithdobbs> fuck that guy
790 2012-03-14 16:17:31 <BlueMatt> oh, libcoin is gpl3???
791 2012-03-14 16:17:32 <BlueMatt> damn
792 2012-03-14 16:17:37 <jrmithdobbs> ya
793 2012-03-14 16:17:49 <jrmithdobbs> i sent him a nasty email when he kept spamming the list every other day with release updates
794 2012-03-14 16:18:03 <jrmithdobbs> to keep his dirtied jailed code to his damned self (was actually nicer, w/e)
795 2012-03-14 16:18:50 <jrmithdobbs> jm9000: so in short: thanks to the guy who forked it being an asshole it will never get merged for legal reasons
796 2012-03-14 16:19:07 <jm9000> It seems like a move to libcoin would be beneficial in the long run for developers who want to utilize libcoin. Assuming libcoin was proven to be reliable, of course.
797 2012-03-14 16:19:14 <jm9000> jrmithdobbs: Well, that sucks.
798 2012-03-14 16:19:15 <jrmithdobbs> sure
799 2012-03-14 16:19:16 <BlueMatt> if he wants to, he can relicense you know...
800 2012-03-14 16:19:19 <jrmithdobbs> but we can't use that libcoin
801 2012-03-14 16:19:29 <BlueMatt> jm9000: meh, bitcoin will slowly get cleaned up
802 2012-03-14 16:19:41 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: he could, but he didn't even respond to me so I think he has zero interest in playing ball
803 2012-03-14 16:19:54 <BlueMatt> or he doesnt respond to nasty emails ;)
804 2012-03-14 16:20:01 <jrmithdobbs> it wasn't really that nasty
805 2012-03-14 16:20:05 <jrmithdobbs> exageration
806 2012-03-14 16:20:22 <luke-jr> GPL3 is more permissive than libbitcoin's AGPL3
807 2012-03-14 16:20:32 <jrmithdobbs> oh that's right, it's agpl3 so like 5x worse
808 2012-03-14 16:20:36 <luke-jr> but I agree there should remain a MIT licensed impl
809 2012-03-14 16:20:37 <BlueMatt> libbitcoin is agpl3???
810 2012-03-14 16:20:42 <jrmithdobbs> yes
811 2012-03-14 16:20:57 <jrmithdobbs> it's completely worthless code that you cannot read without polluting your IP pool and opening yourself up to lawsuits
812 2012-03-14 16:21:14 <jrmithdobbs> related: someone tell sipa to stop admitting to reading it ;p
813 2012-03-14 16:21:17 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: maybe if you're a proprietary developer
814 2012-03-14 16:21:48 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: that whole area is fuzzy with normal gpl2/3, it's a completely unknown gray area with agpl*
815 2012-03-14 16:22:03 <luke-jr> only reason to avoid GPL IMO is to let MIT software link to it
816 2012-03-14 16:22:25 <jrmithdobbs> technically anything similar after being exposed to the agpl3 code is a "derivitive work" (or could be argued to be, I'm not saying they would win, I'm saying it could cause legal hassle)
817 2012-03-14 16:22:28 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: not completely, no.
818 2012-03-14 16:22:30 <BlueMatt> arg, now valgind is segfaulting...wtf???
819 2012-03-14 16:22:55 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: genjix had a fairly long discussion with FSF about AGPL and how it could work for libbitcoin
820 2012-03-14 16:23:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: this was the "nasty" email, btw
821 2012-03-14 16:23:29 <jrmithdobbs> Could you please take this to your own list or limit your posts to sporadic meaningful updates please?
822 2012-03-14 16:23:32 <jrmithdobbs> Discussion of your forked and gpl3'ed code isn't really on topic.
823 2012-03-14 16:23:44 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: in response to his natpmp announcement
824 2012-03-14 16:24:02 <jrmithdobbs> (grammar mistakes retained)
825 2012-03-14 16:24:08 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I disagree.
826 2012-03-14 16:24:16 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: the list is for bitcoin development, not a single client
827 2012-03-14 16:24:18 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: at the time he was posting like every other day
828 2012-03-14 16:24:36 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: I don't mind bitcoinj/etc announcements that TD does because he actually just does meaningful announcements
829 2012-03-14 16:24:43 <jrmithdobbs> the guy was sending an email on like every commit it seemed
830 2012-03-14 16:24:47 <luke-jr> >_<
831 2012-03-14 16:24:56 <luke-jr> he needs to setup CIA
832 2012-03-14 16:25:10 <jrmithdobbs> the guy has zero interest in actually participating
833 2012-03-14 16:25:10 <luke-jr> #bitcoin-commits works well for every-commit announcemnets :P
834 2012-03-14 16:25:19 <jrmithdobbs> afaict
835 2012-03-14 16:25:32 <luke-jr> hmm
836 2012-03-14 16:25:40 <luke-jr> should have asked gavin to upload 0.5.3 while he was in here
837 2012-03-14 16:25:55 <jrmithdobbs> anyways, i don't think anything gpl3 especially anything agpl3 belongs on the bitcoin-dev list since most other bitcoin projects will not be able to use it
838 2012-03-14 16:26:10 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no reason they can't use it.
839 2012-03-14 16:26:11 <jrmithdobbs> so it's pretty much just spam
840 2012-03-14 16:26:25 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: can't link against it?
841 2012-03-14 16:26:30 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: sure they can
842 2012-03-14 16:26:36 <luke-jr> just have to stick to GPL terms
843 2012-03-14 16:26:57 <jrmithdobbs> right, they have to effectively make their project gpl (I know there are semantics that make that not entirely true, but c'mon)