1 2012-04-03 00:00:59 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 1192000
  2 2012-04-03 00:01:00 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1192000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1626553.4813289 , is 0.737109135002 BTC per day and 0.0307128806251 BTC per hour.
  3 2012-04-03 00:03:32 <brwyatt> So I'm trying to determine, before sending, what all kinds of data is in debug.log
  4 2012-04-03 00:04:44 <brwyatt> I assume it is just a log of all transactions that are broadcast to it and that it, in turn, sends out?
  5 2012-04-03 00:04:57 <luke-jr> brwyatt: everything
  6 2012-04-03 00:05:36 <brwyatt> Well, I think more my question is, does it log my addresses, does it log any transactions I've made, etc?
  7 2012-04-03 00:06:06 <luke-jr> yes
  8 2012-04-03 00:06:08 <brwyatt> Granted, I don't make many, and that info getting out isn't an issue... but, based on principle...
  9 2012-04-03 00:06:33 <brwyatt> How would I find that? I know when the last transaction I made was.... And that was a few weeks ago.
 10 2012-04-03 00:06:46 <brwyatt> So I could probably use that to narrow the time frame
 11 2012-04-03 00:06:55 <Dingharlio> Do you know the block number the transaction was made on?
 12 2012-04-03 00:07:43 <Dingharlio> I assume the file appends every time it receives new data and I see block data so if you know the block you should be able to know where to cut off. Depending on how long you have been infected, the moment of infection could have been recorded too but might be before that time frame
 13 2012-04-03 00:07:46 <brwyatt> 172102
 14 2012-04-03 00:08:42 <brwyatt> How is the block/transaction data logged?
 15 2012-04-03 00:09:23 <Dingharlio> I am guessing that the height=xxxxxx is the block number. Can anyone confirm?
 16 2012-04-03 00:10:54 <brwyatt> That appears to be correct... as far as I can see.
 17 2012-04-03 00:20:01 <brwyatt> Okay, so from the last mention of block 172102 until saturday when I turned it off is still 273,479 lines
 18 2012-04-03 00:20:01 <Dingharlio> Well we havent been corrected so lets assume we are right. How do you want to send us the file?
 19 2012-04-03 00:20:13 <brwyatt> If you guys want that, I can provide it.
 20 2012-04-03 00:20:36 <brwyatt> I'll just post it up on my website, if y'all have no objections?
 21 2012-04-03 00:20:47 <Dingharlio> I don't see any problem with that.
 22 2012-04-03 00:23:03 <brwyatt> https://brwyatt.net/files/debug.log
 23 2012-04-03 00:23:38 <brwyatt> That's the last 273,479 lines, and everything since block 172,102
 24 2012-04-03 00:24:23 <brwyatt> And from bitcoin-qt 0.5.0 on Debian 6
 25 2012-04-03 00:24:41 <Dingharlio> lol made my browser window crash. Lets see if I can download it directly.
 26 2012-04-03 00:25:43 <Dingharlio> Thank you Bryan, I hope we can get some useful information out of this
 27 2012-04-03 00:25:58 <brwyatt> If there is anything else you need, I can be contacted at gtalk: brwyatt@gmail.com AIM: brwyatt456 or email: webmaster@brwyatt.net (or from my site's contact page if you forget)
 28 2012-04-03 00:26:04 <brwyatt> Dingharlio: I hope it helps.
 29 2012-04-03 00:26:36 <brwyatt> I'll keep myself in these channels as well
 30 2012-04-03 00:27:15 <brwyatt> (in case I'm needed for anything, and for any information y'all might find)
 31 2012-04-03 00:27:16 <Dingharlio> If there is anything else needed I am sure the right person will contact you if you are around here.
 32 2012-04-03 00:27:29 <brwyatt> Thanks.
 33 2012-04-03 00:29:54 <Graet> interesting stuff, good on you for stepping up brwyatt :)
 34 2012-04-03 00:30:47 <brwyatt> Well, 1) if there is a problem on my network: I want to know about it 2) I care about the health and strength of the bitcoin network... so...
 35 2012-04-03 00:31:01 <brwyatt> I really had no choice but to try and help
 36 2012-04-03 00:31:09 <brwyatt> Or provide as much as I can to help
 37 2012-04-03 00:32:36 <Graet> true, but not everyone makes that chioce - for various reasons :)
 38 2012-04-03 00:35:36 <brwyatt> luke-jr: I authorized you, but forgot to add. Can you send me a message?
 39 2012-04-03 00:35:58 <luke-jr> brwyatt: & not possible lol
 40 2012-04-03 00:36:11 <brwyatt> Ah, there you are.
 41 2012-04-03 00:36:37 <brwyatt> I think maybe I added you under "buddies" or something instead of my "contacts" group
 42 2012-04-03 00:38:38 <denisx> which block are we looking for?
 43 2012-04-03 00:38:43 <denisx> 173484?
 44 2012-04-03 00:40:12 <Dingharlio> 173692-173694
 45 2012-04-03 00:40:55 <Dingharlio> Those are 3 I know for sure. There are also duplicates that were orphaned when the three were pushed on the network all at once. around 8:50
 46 2012-04-03 00:42:33 <Dingharlio> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.msg828776#msg828776 - More background information
 47 2012-04-03 00:43:19 <denisx> uniq debug.log > debug.log
 48 2012-04-03 01:03:43 <Dingharlio> So I may have found something. Right before block 173692 there is a connection from 87.211.24.239:50750. All other connections are from port 8333 so that is the first red flag. I did a lookup on the ip and it comes back to a netherlands ip and is also blacklisted on zen.spamhaus.org like Bryans IP. I couldn't find any evidence of it being a Tor node either.
 49 2012-04-03 01:05:53 <Graet> Diablo-D3, gmaxwell will the top 9 pools be updated to top 10 again soon? nthe way ars is going it will propably drop out, i guess there would be a couple of pools appreciating the promotion :P
 50 2012-04-03 01:06:22 <denisx> I would like to get promotion! ;)
 51 2012-04-03 01:06:43 <Graet> me promotes denisx to sgt denisx
 52 2012-04-03 01:06:58 <denisx> sir, yes, sir
 53 2012-04-03 01:07:01 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: when you say "blacklisted" by zen.spamhaus, what is the return code?
 54 2012-04-03 01:07:03 <Graet> hehe :)
 55 2012-04-03 01:07:11 <BlueMatt> because most of the ips in use are on the zen blacklist
 56 2012-04-03 01:07:52 <Dingharlio> I just did a basic check. Let me see if I can find the code. The interesting thing here is the port number. Also there is some weird time shifting table shortly after
 57 2012-04-03 01:09:03 <Dingharlio> BlueMatt: End-user Non-MTA IP addresses set by ISP outbound mail policy
 58 2012-04-03 01:09:19 <Dingharlio> so it doesn't sound like that might mean much.
 59 2012-04-03 01:09:26 <BlueMatt> in other words it is an end-user ip
 60 2012-04-03 01:09:42 <BlueMatt> ie an ip assigned to someone behind a regular average-joe internet connection
 61 2012-04-03 01:10:09 <Diablo-D3> Graet: I do the top 10
 62 2012-04-03 01:10:15 <Diablo-D3> I update it once a month
 63 2012-04-03 01:10:17 <BlueMatt> I mean, any botnet-hosted block sender would be, but it doesnt really indicate much
 64 2012-04-03 01:10:22 <Diablo-D3> I guess its almost time to update it again
 65 2012-04-03 01:10:29 <Graet> :)
 66 2012-04-03 01:10:40 <Graet> i think so man, sorta getting out of date ;)
 67 2012-04-03 01:26:06 <Dingharlio> Hey should there be an IRC reference in the log file?
 68 2012-04-03 01:26:31 <Dingharlio> IRC Got Join after some weird errors and accepting an orphan transaction
 69 2012-04-03 01:28:31 <Dingharlio> It also appears right before block 173694 is referenced
 70 2012-04-03 01:32:31 <luke-jr> sounds like 0.5
 71 2012-04-03 01:32:32 <BlueMatt> yea, bitcoin uses irc as a bootstrap mechanism
 72 2012-04-03 01:32:45 <BlueMatt> (but it was disabled in 0.6, by default)
 73 2012-04-03 01:32:50 <BlueMatt> or was it 0.6?
 74 2012-04-03 01:38:48 <Dingharlio> it was 5.3
 75 2012-04-03 01:40:02 <Dingharlio> I found another interesting IP address that connects around 173690 and strangely disconnects in a weird pattern right before 173695 is mentioned. The spamhaus comes back as an exploit computer and the IP is from the Ukraine.
 76 2012-04-03 01:40:29 <BlueMatt> fun
 77 2012-04-03 01:40:38 <Dingharlio> Code: CBL + customised NJABL.
 78 2012-04-03 01:40:58 <Dingharlio> 178.158.131.154:2811 for those who want to look it up
 79 2012-04-03 01:42:01 <Dingharlio> There is a socket receive error and the next log line is "disconnecting node 178.158.131.154:2811"
 80 2012-04-03 01:42:27 <gmaxwell> Dingharlio: Nothing you've pointed out so far is at all interesting as far as I can tell.
 81 2012-04-03 01:43:18 <Dingharlio> Ok well I am not the expert. I am just looking for patterns. I have now looked through the log file in question.
 82 2012-04-03 01:43:30 <Dingharlio> The part of the log file in question
 83 2012-04-03 01:45:25 <BlueMatt> if it is a botnet-based miner, and you did just find the ip of the person who sent you the block (no way to know, and it doesnt really look like it), then you just found the ip of one person who found the block, then you just found some random person in the Ukraine who is infected with a botnet
 84 2012-04-03 01:45:28 <BlueMatt> ok...
 85 2012-04-03 01:46:17 <gmaxwell> Luke has a patch to log the IP you recieve blocks from explicitly.
 86 2012-04-03 01:48:21 <Dingharlio> Do any pools use port 0?
 87 2012-04-03 01:49:00 <BlueMatt> there is no port 0
 88 2012-04-03 01:49:42 <Dingharlio> Then why are there lots of IP addresses with port 0
 89 2012-04-03 01:50:06 <Dingharlio> I even have them in my log so it isnt suspicious IMO
 90 2012-04-03 01:50:43 <BlueMatt> where do you see port 0 in your logs?
 91 2012-04-03 01:50:58 <Dingharlio> I have one IP with 0 port that isnt my ip address
 92 2012-04-03 01:51:08 <BlueMatt> you cant make a tcp port 0 connection using any standard system call I know of
 93 2012-04-03 01:51:24 <BlueMatt> though I think you could if you took a lot of time
 94 2012-04-03 01:51:36 <Dingharlio> AddAddress(189.69.218.77:0) - from my log.... if you search his log you will find a lot of port 0 connections if you search ":0"
 95 2012-04-03 01:52:01 <BlueMatt> AddAddress just means someone sent you that node's ip/port combo
 96 2012-04-03 01:52:47 <BlueMatt> it doesnt mean anyone has actually made/received a connection to/from that ip/port
 97 2012-04-03 01:53:38 <gmaxwell> I wonder if thats the addr flooding attack?
 98 2012-04-03 01:53:55 <BlueMatt> though you could make a tcp packet with port 0, I dont know that any routers/network stacks will like that
 99 2012-04-03 01:54:32 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: either that or someone was writing a client and wrote in buggy address exchanging
100 2012-04-03 01:55:21 <gmaxwell> gah, this isn't helpful:
101 2012-04-03 01:55:30 <gmaxwell> AddAddress()
102 2012-04-03 01:55:47 <gmaxwell> Does addrman do that for other people is it that the result of some local patch I'm carrying on that node?
103 2012-04-03 01:55:51 <BlueMatt> yes it is, it tells you there is a bug somewhere ;)
104 2012-04-03 01:57:09 <gmaxwell> oh nevermind that was looking at a 3.19 node
105 2012-04-03 01:57:16 <BlueMatt> oh...
106 2012-04-03 01:57:24 <BlueMatt> wait, you still run 0.3.19 nodes?
107 2012-04-03 01:57:37 <BlueMatt> how big a testing setup do you have going there?
108 2012-04-03 01:58:48 <gmaxwell> I only have 8 nodes at the moment. And a couple of them are production (mining)
109 2012-04-03 01:59:05 <BlueMatt> thats 8 more than me...
110 2012-04-03 01:59:43 <gmaxwell> I don't really have that much setup I have a bunch of stuff half setup. E.g. I have the old nodes for the purpose of detecting chain disagreements between them and current nodes.. but haven't gotten to setting up alarms.
111 2012-04-03 02:00:34 <BlueMatt> again, thats way more than I have
112 2012-04-03 02:19:14 <Dingharlio> Does accepted connection mean that is officially a node that was connected to?
113 2012-04-03 02:19:47 <BlueMatt> what does the line look like?
114 2012-04-03 02:21:14 <Dingharlio> accepted connection 94.23.34.145:48054
115 2012-04-03 02:21:24 <Graet> * BlueMatt still thinks we should hire gmaxwell away from wherever to make him qa lead << /me thinks this is one of the best ideas he's seen for a while
116 2012-04-03 02:21:26 <Graet> :P
117 2012-04-03 02:21:29 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: yes
118 2012-04-03 02:21:40 <Dingharlio> By the way the line before is "disconnecting node 94.23.34.145:56276"
119 2012-04-03 02:21:46 <Dingharlio> same IP different port
120 2012-04-03 02:21:52 <BlueMatt> Graet: I mentioned it back when there was talk of making a bitcoin foundation and getting a qt lead...
121 2012-04-03 02:22:02 <BlueMatt> Graet: if only gmaxwell was unemployed...
122 2012-04-03 02:22:06 <Graet> :D
123 2012-04-03 02:22:08 <BlueMatt> (no offense gmaxwell)
124 2012-04-03 02:22:26 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: meh, connection was lost, a new one was made
125 2012-04-03 02:22:27 <Graet> or a bitcoin foundation was big enough to lure him away
126 2012-04-03 02:22:31 <BlueMatt> could happen for any number of reasons
127 2012-04-03 02:22:59 <BlueMatt> Graet: though I know nothing of where gmaxwell actually gets paid to work, I would assume, based on what I've seen of his code, that he makes a pretty penny
128 2012-04-03 02:23:08 <BlueMatt> or does xiph pay gmaxwell?
129 2012-04-03 02:25:23 <BlueMatt> also, gmaxwell, what is up with the blue wikipedia background crap, it looks terrible...
130 2012-04-03 02:25:55 <BlueMatt> wait, why is wikipedia not rendering right in chrome???
131 2012-04-03 02:26:53 <Graet> ahh ok, fair enough BlueMatt :)
132 2012-04-03 02:30:46 <BlueMatt> ok, Id assume he gets paid by xiph, "Gregory Maxwell, the designed and lead dev of the OGG container and the Vorbis audio and Theora video codecs"
133 2012-04-03 02:31:05 <BlueMatt> also, gmaxwell, vorbis/theora kick ass
134 2012-04-03 02:37:56 <gmaxwell> :)
135 2012-04-03 02:38:14 <BlueMatt> na, you missed that a while back...
136 2012-04-03 02:38:29 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell has several hats
137 2012-04-03 02:38:54 <Diablo-D3> something something someting gaben is a bastard for not releasing half-life 3
138 2012-04-03 02:39:43 <gmaxwell> In any case, I have a day job (I work for Juniper Networks). The Xiph work I do is just for fun and because I care about what it's accomplishing.  Theora is .. well. It's an old codec and does surprising well considering that it's more contemporary with mpeg2 than anything else.
139 2012-04-03 02:40:07 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: does juniper hardware still suck?
140 2012-04-03 02:40:19 <BlueMatt> oh, Juniper, now that I wouldnt have guessed...oh well
141 2012-04-03 02:40:29 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: so when is Theora 2 coming out?
142 2012-04-03 02:40:41 <Diablo-D3> they were trying to out-cisco cisco at one point
143 2012-04-03 02:40:49 <gmaxwell> (I _could_ work full time on Xiph stuff, but  well, mozilla already employs 3/5 of the most active Xiph people, Redhat employs the other)
144 2012-04-03 02:42:46 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: hm? Dunno what you're talking about actually we've had no signficant hardware problems for many years (though, I never really deal with low end stuff or the firewalls, but even on those the issues have mostly been software)
145 2012-04-03 02:44:42 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I dunno, I just know a lot of people who work in the business of being juniper customers
146 2012-04-03 02:45:22 <Diablo-D3> Ive heard enough people bitch older juniper stuff was better built
147 2012-04-03 02:53:53 <Graet> i hang on another irc with a bunch of juniper fanboys :) there must be a lot of them in my state :)
148 2012-04-03 02:57:50 <helo> opaque?
149 2012-04-03 02:58:16 <BlueMatt> wait, jgarzik is selling his house?
150 2012-04-03 03:00:16 <nanotube> for bitcoins?:)
151 2012-04-03 03:01:54 <BlueMatt> if you make him an offer, Id assume
152 2012-04-03 03:02:26 <BlueMatt> (btw, if you dont follow what jgarzik links on his g+, its damn good stuff)
153 2012-04-03 03:06:22 <Cory> Got a link?
154 2012-04-03 03:08:06 <nanotube> linky? :)
155 2012-04-03 03:39:36 <BlueMatt> sorry, I totally left right after posting that
156 2012-04-03 03:39:41 <BlueMatt> nanotube, Cory: https://plus.google.com/105424721218711536033/posts
157 2012-04-03 03:39:56 <Cory> Thanks!
158 2012-04-03 03:39:59 <nanotube> haha thanks BlueMatt
159 2012-04-03 03:40:43 <BlueMatt> oh well, I found him, it mustve been
160 2012-04-03 03:59:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
161 2012-04-03 03:59:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yes, I will accept bitcoins for my house
162 2012-04-03 04:09:11 <copumpkin> jgarzik: you know conrad parker?
163 2012-04-03 07:02:52 <UukGoblin> so is BIP16 live now?
164 2012-04-03 07:03:00 <UukGoblin> the wiki still says "draft"
165 2012-04-03 07:04:04 <conman> live it is
166 2012-04-03 07:04:33 <conman> anyone mining should be mining with a bip16 compatible server
167 2012-04-03 07:05:09 <Joric> i'm wondering if you had a full blown (uncompressed) 'vanity' address will future versions convert it to the compressed one? it will put the end to all vanity addresses
168 2012-04-03 07:06:01 <Joric> (compressed and uncompressed pubkeys have different hash160)
169 2012-04-03 07:09:58 <Joric> i mean, i heard some version of client tried to convert all keys in the wallet to 'compressed' ones
170 2012-04-03 07:14:29 <conman> I"m guessing only if you enable upgrade wallet
171 2012-04-03 07:14:37 <conman> wild guess only
172 2012-04-03 07:15:14 <t7> how does a miner send proof of work to a pool?
173 2012-04-03 07:15:23 <t7> what does the proof consist of?
174 2012-04-03 07:17:35 <Cory> "A share is awarded by the mining pool to the clients who present a valid proof of work of the same type as the proof of work that is used for creating blocks, but of lesser difficulty, so that it requires less time on average to generate."
175 2012-04-03 07:20:13 <Joric> i don't like the idea when the same secret points to a different address, if only client link those addresses somehow
176 2012-04-03 07:20:38 <Joric> *links
177 2012-04-03 07:21:46 <Joric> if not, 'upgrading wallet' is pretty much like burning money
178 2012-04-03 07:24:49 <sipa> Joric: address cannot ever be converted
179 2012-04-03 07:26:06 <sipa> Joric: pre 0.6.0rc5 there was an automatic upgrade where new addresses that were generated would be compressed ones
180 2012-04-03 07:26:17 <sipa> but old keys are never touched
181 2012-04-03 07:28:12 <Joric> does it mean the pre-generated address pool won't be touched as well?
182 2012-04-03 07:30:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: addrman should tell you where new addresses were received from, how many, and how many entries both tables have afterwards
183 2012-04-03 07:32:08 <Eliel> so, with the compressed public keys, will the client now keep track of both ways of hashing the public keys into addresses?
184 2012-04-03 07:32:49 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Lohoris opened issue 1027 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1027>
185 2012-04-03 07:34:09 <sipa> Eliel: no, it's decided at generation time
186 2012-04-03 07:34:42 <sipa> it would not be wise to use both addresses corresponding to a raw secret key
187 2012-04-03 07:34:59 <sipa> that would mean two implicitly linked addresses
188 2012-04-03 07:35:34 <JFK911> is that fork closed?
189 2012-04-03 07:37:19 <sipa> Joric: the pool keys are no different; those that are already generated are not touched
190 2012-04-03 07:37:38 <Joric> okay
191 2012-04-03 07:38:16 <sipa> so if you run -walletupgrade now on an old wallet, it still takes 100 getnewaddress'es to start seeing compressed ones
192 2012-04-03 07:40:26 <da2ce7> do you do a wallet upgrade if you change your wallet password?
193 2012-04-03 07:40:42 <[Tycho]> Can anyone tell me the hash of block 174104, NOT from blockchaininfo ?
194 2012-04-03 07:41:00 <sipa> da2ce7: change no, add yes
195 2012-04-03 07:41:10 <da2ce7> hmm...
196 2012-04-03 07:41:27 <[7]> [Tycho]: is blockexplorer OK? :P
197 2012-04-03 07:41:55 <[Tycho]> [7]: Does it even works ?
198 2012-04-03 07:42:25 <Joric> blockexplorer says 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd
199 2012-04-03 07:42:26 <kinlo> 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd ? :)
200 2012-04-03 07:42:31 <kinlo> that's what I have
201 2012-04-03 07:42:49 <[7]> which matches blockchain.info
202 2012-04-03 07:42:52 <[Tycho]> Hmm, looks like Slush orphaned me.
203 2012-04-03 07:43:22 <Joric> whoa http://blockchain.info/blocks is full of collisions i see three or four
204 2012-04-03 07:43:37 <[7]> [Tycho]: I spotted some weird blocks from you yesterday (or at least relayed by you apparently)
205 2012-04-03 07:43:42 <[7]> where you basically orphaned yourself?
206 2012-04-03 07:44:25 <[Tycho]> [7]: No, today is the first one, possibly.
207 2012-04-03 07:45:01 <[7]> on blockchain.info, 174102 looks like such a one
208 2012-04-03 07:45:07 <sipa> 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd according to my bitcoind
209 2012-04-03 07:45:43 <[Tycho]> [7]: which 174102 ?
210 2012-04-03 07:46:12 <[7]> that's what i mean, both are relayed by you according to blockchain.info
211 2012-04-03 07:48:24 <[Tycho]> Yes, but at least one of them is not from me.
212 2012-04-03 07:48:45 <[7]> ok, so that was just a display issue... fine
213 2012-04-03 07:48:47 <[Tycho]> Blockchaininfo usually shows wrong info.
214 2012-04-03 07:48:59 <[7]> there were some more of these yesterday which made them a bit suspicious
215 2012-04-03 07:49:03 <conman> usually heh
216 2012-04-03 07:49:37 <[Tycho]> LOTS of non-bip16 blocks were shown as Deepbit's 01.04
217 2012-04-03 07:51:28 <[Tycho]> Joric: what BBE are you using ?
218 2012-04-03 07:52:47 <t7> anyone know a guide to public key crypto for programmers?
219 2012-04-03 07:54:50 <t7> babbys first guide sorta thing
220 2012-04-03 07:57:39 <Joric> [Tycho], blockexplorer.com
221 2012-04-03 07:58:19 <[Tycho]> Wow, its working again.
222 2012-04-03 08:59:09 <kinlo> blockexplorer lagging behind?
223 2012-04-03 09:00:30 <djoot> Swedish translation file is in too bad a shape to be included IMO, lots of text showing up as 'amp;Blabla' because there are lots of instances of &amp;amp;Blabla in the source
224 2012-04-03 09:00:37 <[7]> is there any way to easily figure out which bitcoind version some IP is running?
225 2012-04-03 09:01:47 <djoot> also, how can I turn off localization for bitcoin-qt in windows? anyone?
226 2012-04-03 09:09:19 <sipa> [7]: try http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
227 2012-04-03 09:11:27 <[7]> isn't in there
228 2012-04-03 09:11:40 <[7]> can't I just connect to that IP and ask it?
229 2012-04-03 09:12:34 <sipa> yes
230 2012-04-03 09:12:43 <sipa> use bitcoind -connect=<IP>
231 2012-04-03 09:12:57 <sipa> the debug.log will tell you the network version (but not the client version)
232 2012-04-03 09:13:27 <[7]> dammit, port not open on that IP
233 2012-04-03 09:15:53 <denisx> [7]: you want to check all pools with your tool?
234 2012-04-03 09:16:21 <[7]> no, I just have a particular suspocion what's currently happening with p2pool
235 2012-04-03 09:16:26 <[7]> suspicion*
236 2012-04-03 09:16:54 <[7]> there must be some miners who are running an old p2pool, but new bitcoind version, causing the p2pool sharechain fork to produce valid bitcoin blocks
237 2012-04-03 09:17:10 <[7]> and among them is bitcoin syndicate with it's 5GH/s
238 2012-04-03 09:20:09 <kinlo> sipa: is that list complete?
239 2012-04-03 09:20:40 <sipa> kinlo: it's the dump of the database my crawler maintains
240 2012-04-03 09:20:57 <kinlo> so how would that explain that my ip isn't in that list? :)
241 2012-04-03 09:21:03 <sipa> it's up to date, but very unreachable nodes are banned
242 2012-04-03 09:21:30 <kinlo> do you do nodes on other ports?
243 2012-04-03 09:21:40 <sipa> yes
244 2012-04-03 09:21:55 <sipa> 80.200.39.195:133330.00%0.37%10.61%11.56%3.52%60000 "/Satoshi:0.6.0.6/"
245 2012-04-03 09:22:15 <kinlo> mmmz
246 2012-04-03 09:22:23 <kinlo> so why are my clients not in the list
247 2012-04-03 09:22:34 <sipa> 80.200.39.195:13333 0.00% 0.37% 10.61% 11.56% 3.52% 60000 "/Satoshi:0.6.0.6/"
248 2012-04-03 09:22:58 <sipa> kinlo: is it up, its connection slots not full, and reachable?
249 2012-04-03 09:23:18 <kinlo> I'm looking at it
250 2012-04-03 09:23:22 <kinlo> slots are 8 so not full
251 2012-04-03 09:23:31 <kinlo> what is the default limit for max number of slots?
252 2012-04-03 09:23:42 <sipa> 8 seems to imply you're not reachable :)
253 2012-04-03 09:24:03 <sipa> (as the client makes 8 outgoing connections)
254 2012-04-03 09:25:09 <kinlo> :)
255 2012-04-03 09:25:18 <kinlo> got it, firewall issues
256 2012-04-03 09:25:57 <kinlo> I didn't automated those firewalls yet :/
257 2012-04-03 09:25:57 <sipa> if you're up, and haven't behaved very badly the past month, you'll probably end up in the list within an hour
258 2012-04-03 09:27:19 <kinlo> I have been blocking incomming
259 2012-04-03 09:27:24 <kinlo> but no more
260 2012-04-03 09:40:06 <sturles> 79.143.241.233:8333 100.00% 100.00% 99.72% 56.93% 17.84% 300 ""
261 2012-04-03 09:40:32 <sipa> that's no satoshi client
262 2012-04-03 09:40:33 <sturles> Is this Satoshi running the third alpha version of his client?
263 2012-04-03 09:40:39 <sturles> Ah.
264 2012-04-03 09:41:25 <sipa> actually, no, it could be
265 2012-04-03 09:41:32 <sipa> v0.3.0
266 2012-04-03 09:41:39 <sipa> had indeed client version number 300
267 2012-04-03 09:44:24 <sturles> 32300 is a popular client.  27.45% of the seed nodes.  Only 4.41% at 60000.
268 2012-04-03 09:45:08 <sipa> sturles: that node seems to be running a fully functional node
269 2012-04-03 09:45:34 <sipa> it may be an alternative implementation, or hacked to show a wrong version number, but at least it's working
270 2012-04-03 09:48:03 <sturles> Heh.  Someone probably had it to start at boot and forgot about it.  Could have a fat wallet from early mining, of course.
271 2012-04-03 09:48:07 <sturles> 50300 was the first release with proper BIP 16 support, right?  In that case less than 11% of the seed nodes support BIP 16.
272 2012-04-03 09:48:56 <sipa> sturles: 50400 and 60000
273 2012-04-03 09:49:01 <sipa> 50300 does not have BIP16
274 2012-04-03 09:50:16 <sturles> Less than 5% then.  Not impressive.  We are probably going to see those invalid blocks for a while.
275 2012-04-03 09:50:51 <sipa> seed nodes != mining power
276 2012-04-03 09:51:14 <sturles> Of course, but there still are a few solo miners out there.
277 2012-04-03 09:57:42 <sturles> I waited for months to upgrade my workstation after "Generate coins" was removed from the menu on the GUI version.  I thought generating was removed completely, and it still generated a block now and then at 15 MHash/s.
278 2012-04-03 09:58:19 <sturles> This may have been around 0.3.23, the most popular version.
279 2012-04-03 10:13:19 <sturles> 51% of the nodes are still at version 0.3.x.  31% at 0.5.x.  Only 4.43% at 0.6.x.
280 2012-04-03 10:13:52 <lh77> im too lazy to upgrade :/
281 2012-04-03 10:22:07 <Cory> Thankfully most nodes aren't submitting blocks, then.
282 2012-04-03 10:23:13 <sturles> Yep.  Just getting confused by all the orphaned chains, possibly failing to reorganize.
283 2012-04-03 11:09:28 <imsaguy2> is testnet faucet broke?
284 2012-04-03 11:10:06 <imsaguy2> I've requested coins, but they never arrive.  Further, there's a list of sent coins in the history of the faucet page, but they all show as errors.
285 2012-04-03 11:10:14 <imsaguy2> Today in Chrome I get: You attempted to reach testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as *.appspot.com. This may be caused by a misconfiguration on the server or by something more serious. An attacker on your network could be trying to get you to visit a fake (and potentially harmful) version of testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com.
286 2012-04-03 11:10:15 <imsaguy2> You cannot proceed because the website operator has requested heightened security for this domain.
287 2012-04-03 11:10:32 <imsaguy2> So it seems its having multiple issues :(
288 2012-04-03 11:14:03 <t7> anyone know about rsa in here?
289 2012-04-03 11:23:48 <t7> how long does it take to check 2 ^ 32 hashes on a block>
290 2012-04-03 11:24:32 <sipa> t7: on what hardware?
291 2012-04-03 11:24:40 <t7> 2 ^ 32 / 700,000,000
292 2012-04-03 11:24:57 <sipa> ;;calc 2**32 / 700000000
293 2012-04-03 11:24:58 <gribble> 6.13566756571
294 2012-04-03 11:25:04 <t7> 6 seconds?
295 2012-04-03 11:25:24 <t7> wtf
296 2012-04-03 11:26:15 <sipa> remember that when bitcoin was introduced, hashing speed of a typical computer was below 1 MH/s
297 2012-04-03 11:26:38 <sipa> optimized algorithms and GPUs came years later
298 2012-04-03 11:26:44 <t7> is that hashing the entire contents of a block
299 2012-04-03 11:26:59 <t7> including txs and stuff?
300 2012-04-03 11:27:29 <t7> no...
301 2012-04-03 11:27:31 <sipa> no, only the header
302 2012-04-03 11:28:09 <t7> how old can a timestamp be before its not accepted?
303 2012-04-03 11:28:35 <JFK911> whats happening with these chain forks?
304 2012-04-03 11:29:20 <sipa> t7: not older than the median of the past 11 blocks
305 2012-04-03 11:39:54 <[7]> JFK911: they are being orphaned?
306 2012-04-03 11:41:51 <Tril> imsaguy2: try non-HTTPS:  http://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com loads okay. SSL wildcards don't extend to sub-levels deeper than 1 (x.appspot.com OK, y.x.appspot.com not OK)
307 2012-04-03 11:43:12 <luke-jr> JFK911: BIP16
308 2012-04-03 11:49:32 <sipa> I've implemented a block chain database patch that does pruning (write-only, blkindex.dat/blk0001.dat is still used for the real checking)
309 2012-04-03 11:49:38 <sipa> let's see how small it gets
310 2012-04-03 11:50:37 <luke-jr> O.o
311 2012-04-03 11:50:40 <imsaguy2> tril: thanks, a derp moment
312 2012-04-03 11:50:51 <luke-jr> sipa: as in, it deletes the data, or just removes it from the index?
313 2012-04-03 11:51:09 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen: the testnet faucet seems to be erroring on sends lately.
314 2012-04-03 11:51:23 <sipa> luke-jr: it stores transaction, tx information and block headers, but not the blocks itself
315 2012-04-03 11:51:39 <luke-jr> hmm
316 2012-04-03 11:51:43 <gavinandresen> imsaguy2: thanks, I'll look into it later today
317 2012-04-03 11:51:48 <sipa> and every 2016 blocks it deletes fully-pruned transactions and tx info
318 2012-04-03 11:52:01 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen: no, thank you.
319 2012-04-03 11:52:02 <sipa> that were already fully-pruned 2016 blocks earlier
320 2012-04-03 11:52:42 <luke-jr> sipa: what do you think about partial pruning? ie, pick a random 75% of blocks to prune
321 2012-04-03 11:53:02 <sipa> luke-jr: unsure...
322 2012-04-03 11:53:05 <luke-jr> that way, even if all your peers are pruners, one is likely to still have the block you need
323 2012-04-03 11:53:41 <sipa> i understand why satoshi didn't do a db with transactions in now: it's excessively slow (probably extremely bad locality, all random hashes)
324 2012-04-03 11:57:45 <sipa> i don't get it: the database is barely a few megabytes in size now, and pruning transactions already takes several seconds
325 2012-04-03 11:57:58 <t7> do i need to clear all my wallet etc if i start bitcoin with -testnet?
326 2012-04-03 11:58:19 <sipa> t7: no, it uses a different data directory
327 2012-04-03 11:59:05 <imsaguy2> it makes a testnet folder in your normal data directory unless you point it elsewhere
328 2012-04-03 12:02:46 <t7> the qr code stuff is awesome
329 2012-04-03 12:02:50 <t7> good job guys
330 2012-04-03 12:02:58 <t7> here 50 testnet coins for your trouble
331 2012-04-03 12:05:53 <t7> the block header uses 4 bytes for difficulty
332 2012-04-03 12:06:14 <t7> yet the target is 256 bit
333 2012-04-03 12:06:18 <t7> wtf
334 2012-04-03 12:07:13 <sipa> t7: why waste 32 bytes for a number with only a few relevant digits?
335 2012-04-03 12:07:30 <t7> how is it encoded?
336 2012-04-03 12:07:40 <sipa> use the source, luke
337 2012-04-03 12:07:45 <gavinandresen> yes, use the source....
338 2012-04-03 12:07:48 <t7> im reading the wiki
339 2012-04-03 12:08:24 <luke-jr> t7: it's a custom floating-point
340 2012-04-03 12:08:36 <luke-jr> t7: 6 (hex) digits, plus exponent
341 2012-04-03 12:08:44 <t7> oh bloody norah
342 2012-04-03 12:08:54 <luke-jr> it's rounded at calculation
343 2012-04-03 12:09:03 <t7> nothing is ever simple with bitcoin
344 2012-04-03 12:09:06 <luke-jr> XD
345 2012-04-03 12:18:17 <t7> are target hex chars allways f or 0 ?
346 2012-04-03 12:19:54 <t7> no
347 2012-04-03 12:21:25 <sipa> t7: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/bignum.h#L256
348 2012-04-03 12:21:44 <t7> you guys roll your own bignum type?
349 2012-04-03 12:22:11 <sipa> satoshi did; i wouldn't
350 2012-04-03 12:23:04 <gmaxwell> hm? not really.. he wrapped the openssl one.
351 2012-04-03 12:23:17 <sipa> oh, right
352 2012-04-03 12:23:23 <sipa> but uint256 is a custom one
353 2012-04-03 12:23:40 <t7> SetCompact mutates itself and returns itself... why.jaypeg
354 2012-04-03 12:23:52 <t7> i really dont get some C++ coders
355 2012-04-03 12:24:25 <luke-jr> t7: that's pretty standard, and for good reason
356 2012-04-03 12:24:33 <luke-jr> a.SetCompact().SetFoo().SetBar()
357 2012-04-03 12:24:59 <t7> why not make it immutable
358 2012-04-03 12:25:27 <t7> b = a.Compact().Foo().Bar();
359 2012-04-03 12:25:43 <luke-jr> sometimes that makes sense.
360 2012-04-03 12:26:08 <sipa> entire pruned chain: 971 MB
361 2012-04-03 12:26:16 <sipa> (chain + index)
362 2012-04-03 12:27:25 <sipa> hmm, not entirely finished; will probably be closer to 1 GiB when finished
363 2012-04-03 12:34:21 <sipa> 1022 MiB
364 2012-04-03 12:39:05 <gmaxwell> compared to?
365 2012-04-03 12:39:28 <gmaxwell> (also you should dbdump | dbload your index for the comparison .. reduces mine by a very large amount)
366 2012-04-03 12:40:00 <sipa> let me do that first
367 2012-04-03 12:41:10 <luke-jr> sipa: does it implement the scriptPubKey[0]==OP_RETURN check?
368 2012-04-03 12:42:44 <sipa> luke-jr: no
369 2012-04-03 12:43:04 <sipa> just pruning fully-spent well-buried transactions
370 2012-04-03 12:43:32 <t7> blockexplorer.com/testnet is a bit out of date then...
371 2012-04-03 12:44:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh, wow
372 2012-04-03 12:44:26 <sipa> reloaded blkindex.dat + blk0001.dat: 1,441,805K
373 2012-04-03 12:44:49 <sipa> reloaded chain.dat (my thing): 803,749K
374 2012-04-03 12:46:29 <t7> are 13k blocks not a big deal anymore?
375 2012-04-03 12:46:39 <sipa> ?
376 2012-04-03 12:46:58 <t7> txs*
377 2012-04-03 12:47:45 <t7> lots of money moving about :3
378 2012-04-03 12:47:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: ah, your chain.dat also benefited from being reloaded. I see.
379 2012-04-03 12:48:41 <sipa> indeed
380 2012-04-03 12:49:57 <sipa> now, there may be bugs in it, it's not tested whether it actually suffices to validate the chain
381 2012-04-03 12:50:14 <sipa> it's just write-only to see what sizes you'd obtain
382 2012-04-03 12:50:48 <gmaxwell> I still don't think thats a _big_ win... I guess next year it will be, however.
383 2012-04-03 12:53:40 <sipa> also, chain.dat only contains connected transactions/blocks
384 2012-04-03 12:53:57 <sipa> while all reorganized forks are still in blk0001.dat
385 2012-04-03 12:54:52 <t7> how do i know if i generated a share or a block... if my hash meets the difficulty
386 2012-04-03 13:06:25 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen, I was wrong about the faucet, its both blockexplorer and the android wallet that are having issues, I'll follow up with them.
387 2012-04-03 13:06:47 <luke-jr> sipa: care to pull 934, 936, 987 ?
388 2012-04-03 13:11:01 <gmaxwell> I pulled 934.
389 2012-04-03 13:11:09 <luke-jr> thanks (didn't notice you were active)
390 2012-04-03 13:11:39 <t7> is there a program to scan the blockchain and check the balance of an address?
391 2012-04-03 13:11:49 <luke-jr> t7: blockchain.info? :p
392 2012-04-03 13:12:21 <gmaxwell> 936,987 I'd want to test before pulling myself.
393 2012-04-03 13:13:01 <t7> luke-jr: but i can receive from 1 address and send using another, right?
394 2012-04-03 13:13:04 <luke-jr> 987 is basically a selective s/URL/URI/
395 2012-04-03 13:13:12 <luke-jr> t7: no
396 2012-04-03 13:13:30 <t7> ah the client just does it for me
397 2012-04-03 13:13:45 <luke-jr> how can I find the version of Ubuntu install from CLI? :/
398 2012-04-03 13:16:14 <helo> Ubuntu Server?
399 2012-04-03 13:16:41 <helo> has there been any discussion of tighter integration between bitcoin and a linux distro such as ubuntu?
400 2012-04-03 13:17:56 <helo> i.e. every ubuntu user is given the option to create an encrypted wallet, run a full/lightweight node, etc?
401 2012-04-03 13:57:47 <Diapolo> hi all
402 2012-04-03 13:58:53 <Diapolo> I have a question on the DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE setting introduced recently.
403 2012-04-03 14:00:59 <Diapolo> Is it safe, if all log files get deleted from the database dir? Gavin wrote, that a 'catastrophic database recovery' is impossible anyway.
404 2012-04-03 14:05:48 <graingert> would it be better to launch the main window of the client, and use the status bar. Instead of a splash-screen?
405 2012-04-03 14:06:28 <graingert> recent transaction balance etc can be serialized fairly simply, and loaded if the wallet.dat has not changed
406 2012-04-03 14:09:27 <Joric> especially such a lousy splash screen
407 2012-04-03 14:11:13 <graingert> no other piece of good software uses a splash screen
408 2012-04-03 14:11:18 <graingert> eg eclipse
409 2012-04-03 14:15:49 <lh77> i agree i dislike the splash screen
410 2012-04-03 14:18:58 <graingert> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1028
411 2012-04-03 14:19:08 <graingert> Joric: lh77: ^
412 2012-04-03 14:20:13 <Joric> devs dissaprove +1s )
413 2012-04-03 14:20:36 <graingert> Joric: ?
414 2012-04-03 14:21:10 <graingert> Joric: dym: "devs dissaprove of +1s :)"
415 2012-04-03 14:21:34 <graingert> github needs upboat and downboat support
416 2012-04-03 14:21:38 <graingert> on issues
417 2012-04-03 14:22:13 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1028 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1028>
418 2012-04-03 14:22:21 <graingert> news!
419 2012-04-03 14:22:36 <graingert> >.>
420 2012-04-03 14:23:02 <helo> suggested replacement for qrcode.png: http://helo.org/qrcode.png
421 2012-04-03 14:23:15 <helo> the current qrcode icon just looks like a grey blur
422 2012-04-03 14:23:49 <graingert> helo: needs white border
423 2012-04-03 14:23:58 <graingert> 1block
424 2012-04-03 14:23:58 <helo> looks great in the client
425 2012-04-03 14:24:56 <graingert> what about icon-qrcode from bootstrap?
426 2012-04-03 14:25:01 <graingert> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html
427 2012-04-03 14:25:08 <graingert> ie glyphicons
428 2012-04-03 14:26:05 <helo> that would work too
429 2012-04-03 14:27:30 <graingert> it's probably a good idea to stick to system icons -> glyphicons -> custom icons
430 2012-04-03 14:28:25 <helo> yeah...
431 2012-04-03 14:28:41 <graingert> someone could stump up the $49 and get the SVGs included :p
432 2012-04-03 14:28:55 <graingert> as they are royalty free
433 2012-04-03 14:30:50 <graingert> Joric: lh77: it looks like laanwj likes it :D
434 2012-04-03 14:31:57 <luke-jr> graingert: but are they free?
435 2012-04-03 14:32:24 <luke-jr> (no)
436 2012-04-03 14:32:58 <helo> is the qrcode icon resized to 16x16 on all platforms?
437 2012-04-03 14:34:46 <graingert> luke-jr: the standard icons are https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en
438 2012-04-03 14:34:58 <luke-jr> graingert: not SVG
439 2012-04-03 14:35:07 <luke-jr> (also, CC BY 3.0 is non-free)
440 2012-04-03 14:35:11 <graingert> luke-jr: and the full icons are royalty free if someone plumps the cash
441 2012-04-03 14:35:19 <graingert> MIT is similar to CC BY
442 2012-04-03 14:35:23 <luke-jr> graingert: royalty-free != free
443 2012-04-03 14:35:27 <graingert> true
444 2012-04-03 14:35:29 <luke-jr> graingert: except minus the BY clause
445 2012-04-03 14:35:39 <graingert> MIT requires the copyright notice
446 2012-04-03 14:35:49 <luke-jr> not attribution, though
447 2012-04-03 14:36:00 <graingert> The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
448 2012-04-03 14:36:05 <graingert> Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders>
449 2012-04-03 14:37:04 <luke-jr> hmm, I actually don't have CC-BY-3.0 on my license rejection list
450 2012-04-03 14:37:13 <graingert> link?
451 2012-04-03 14:38:01 <luke-jr> http://scm.dashjr.org/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=portage-overlay-luke-jr&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fprofiles%2Flicense_groups.rejected
452 2012-04-03 14:38:17 <luke-jr> it's not on my accepted list either: http://scm.dashjr.org/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=portage-overlay-luke-jr&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fprofiles%2Flicense_groups.rationale
453 2012-04-03 14:38:28 <graingert> agpl
454 2012-04-03 14:39:39 <luke-jr> ?
455 2012-04-03 14:39:49 <graingert> you don't accept AGPL?
456 2012-04-03 14:40:10 <luke-jr> if it's not on either list, it usually means I haven't encountered a need for it.
457 2012-04-03 14:40:16 <luke-jr> AGPL would end up on my accept list
458 2012-04-03 14:40:37 <luke-jr> after a careful read ofc
459 2012-04-03 14:40:50 <graingert> I think it's only one or two extra clauses
460 2012-04-03 14:41:19 <luke-jr> yeah, I'm pretty sure it's fine
461 2012-04-03 14:41:28 <helo> graingert: updated with white border ;)
462 2012-04-03 14:41:29 <luke-jr> if it wasn't, I'd probably reconsider using it for Eloipool :P
463 2012-04-03 14:41:41 <graingert> ever used GPL on your code?
464 2012-04-03 14:42:01 <luke-jr> plenty
465 2012-04-03 14:42:25 <graingert> you not worried about the laser sharks?
466 2012-04-03 14:42:39 <luke-jr> ?
467 2012-04-03 14:42:54 <Eliel> I think AGPL addition are necessary if the software is effectively a web server.
468 2012-04-03 14:43:21 <graingert> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/10/torvalds_gpl_drm/
469 2012-04-03 14:43:31 <Eliel> otherwise any company can just make improvements inhouse and not publish them as they're not redistributing the software :)
470 2012-04-03 14:44:31 <graingert> it depends how invested you are in free enterprise clause of GPL
471 2012-04-03 14:44:35 <graingert> ie laser sharks
472 2012-04-03 14:45:07 <luke-jr> Eliel: yep
473 2012-04-03 14:45:20 <luke-jr> Eliel: Eloipool has builtin compliance even - it serves its own code
474 2012-04-03 14:45:37 <graingert> I didn't think you had to do that?
475 2012-04-03 14:45:44 <luke-jr> graingert: looks ancient
476 2012-04-03 14:46:36 <luke-jr> graingert: also looks like FUD
477 2012-04-03 14:46:48 <graingert> ?
478 2012-04-03 14:46:51 <luke-jr> "and the GPLv2 just says that you have to give source code back." <-- it doesn't.
479 2012-04-03 14:46:57 <luke-jr> You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version
480 2012-04-03 14:46:59 <luke-jr> ^ false
481 2012-04-03 14:47:10 <graingert> that's the GPL3 isn't it
482 2012-04-03 14:47:19 <luke-jr> no
483 2012-04-03 14:47:23 <graingert> oh
484 2012-04-03 14:47:36 <luke-jr> GPLv2 says you have to give code to anyone who you give the software to
485 2012-04-03 14:47:40 <graingert> damn, I need to re-license some of my code
486 2012-04-03 14:47:49 <luke-jr> GPLv3 says you have to do that, and also allow that person to change it technologically
487 2012-04-03 14:48:15 <graingert> hang on GPLv2 doesn't allow you to adapt the code?
488 2012-04-03 14:48:33 <luke-jr> so for example, you could sell a DVR with GPL-2 code, and give me that code, but make it impossible for me to install my modified build on the DVR
489 2012-04-03 14:48:45 <luke-jr> with GPL-3, you're required to allow me to install my modification on my own DVR
490 2012-04-03 14:49:04 <graingert> you used two terms
491 2012-04-03 14:49:08 <graingert> the DVR and my own DVR
492 2012-04-03 14:49:16 <graingert> are they the same object?
493 2012-04-03 14:49:18 <luke-jr> yes
494 2012-04-03 14:49:39 <luke-jr> with GPL-2, the manuf can prevent you from installing mods on your own DVR
495 2012-04-03 14:49:42 <graingert> isn't that what "You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version" means?
496 2012-04-03 14:49:44 <luke-jr> with GPL-3, they have to let you
497 2012-04-03 14:50:04 <luke-jr> graingert: the thing is, GPL-3 only requires that the *owner* can install it on his hardware
498 2012-04-03 14:50:19 <luke-jr> so, unless you're *selling* the laser-equipped sharks to someone else, it's the same deal as GPL-2
499 2012-04-03 14:50:30 <graingert> the owner?
500 2012-04-03 14:50:39 <wumpus> graingert: no, I don't like it. But I have other priorities. If it bothers you so much, submit a patch.
501 2012-04-03 14:50:43 <graingert> you mean if you licensed the hardware eg sat box
502 2012-04-03 14:50:45 <luke-jr> graingert: if you own the DVR, GPL-3 says they have to let you install mdos
503 2012-04-03 14:50:46 <luke-jr> mods*
504 2012-04-03 14:51:22 <graingert> wumpus: chillax, it's just an issue
505 2012-04-03 14:51:37 <luke-jr> graingert: what good is code and permission to modify it, if they make it impossible to install the modified version
506 2012-04-03 14:51:41 <luke-jr> ?
507 2012-04-03 14:51:42 <graingert> luke-jr: I don't understand your difference between "owner" and "others"
508 2012-04-03 14:52:07 <luke-jr> graingert: Joe Random User doesn't need to be able to install stuff on a device he doesn't own :P
509 2012-04-03 14:52:21 <graingert> what about satellite boxes
510 2012-04-03 14:52:25 <graingert> that are licensed not sold
511 2012-04-03 14:52:44 <graingert> surely everyone will just license hardware
512 2012-04-03 14:52:51 <graingert> rather than sell it
513 2012-04-03 14:53:09 <graingert> and is that the only difference between "You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version" and what you are sayinbg
514 2012-04-03 14:53:36 <graingert> if so I think you are a little bit too pedantic to call it false
515 2012-04-03 14:55:05 <wumpus> graingert: yes, I don't mean it personally, but bitcoin is not exactly my dayjob and I get a bit tired of people acting like their issue is the most important in the world
516 2012-04-03 14:55:14 <graingert> wumpus: I'm not
517 2012-04-03 14:55:28 <graingert> I understand there are other issues, I just wanted to get it out there
518 2012-04-03 14:55:51 <wumpus> in general, if your issue is really the most important in the world, I guess we can discuss payment :)
519 2012-04-03 14:55:59 <graingert> sigh
520 2012-04-03 14:56:03 <graingert> it's not
521 2012-04-03 14:57:07 <gavinandresen> That's probably the most annoying thing about working on bitcoin-- people not understanding that THEIR priorities are probably not EVERYBODY's priorities.
522 2012-04-03 14:57:41 <gavinandresen> ... and that the developer's priorities are going to trump theirs, because we're the ones doing the work.
523 2012-04-03 14:57:50 <graingert> gavinandresen: It's like I demanded this feature at gunpoint or something
524 2012-04-03 14:57:55 <graingert> what's going on?
525 2012-04-03 14:57:59 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yeah it's a common problem in open source, unfortunately
526 2012-04-03 14:58:05 <wumpus> graingert: it's not about you
527 2012-04-03 14:58:23 <gavinandresen> We're just tired of having long discussions about trivial features
528 2012-04-03 14:58:58 <gavinandresen> (not saying your feature is trivial, I actually have no idea, haven't been paying attention)
529 2012-04-03 14:59:00 <graingert> you don't need a long discussion. Peg it as a "Should" on moscow
530 2012-04-03 14:59:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: from my perspective, it's pretty annoying that I *am* doing the work, but it often gets ignored because the person who has to click the merge button has different priorities ;)
531 2012-04-03 14:59:29 <gavinandresen> (that's where you, graingert, say OK, thanks for all your hard work, hope you get around to it soon)
532 2012-04-03 14:59:55 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: you don't listen to us when we say things like "NO TONAL"
533 2012-04-03 15:00:02 <copumpkin> lol
534 2012-04-03 15:00:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: only the tonal pullreq has tonal :p
535 2012-04-03 15:00:39 <graingert> gavinandresen: I appreciate your work, but am offended that you feel I should have to thank you for it
536 2012-04-03 15:00:39 <wumpus> many things are just that, stopgaps until someone implements something better... we're not lacking ideas, just time to implement them
537 2012-04-03 15:00:41 <gavinandresen> sigh.  Fine.  No tonal, and no hexadecimal, either.
538 2012-04-03 15:00:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how does this relate to 99% of my pullreqs?
539 2012-04-03 15:01:14 <gavinandresen> just an example of you being bull-headed and refusing to ever compromise.
540 2012-04-03 15:01:56 <luke-jr> the contrary, IMO. I compromise all the time, but those are cases where you guys won't settle for anything short of your way.
541 2012-04-03 15:02:08 <wumpus> in case of tonal, yes
542 2012-04-03 15:02:29 <graingert> tonal as an option is fine imhiop
543 2012-04-03 15:02:34 <graingert> imhop*
544 2012-04-03 15:02:44 <graingert> but it should be implimented with the rest of i18n
545 2012-04-03 15:02:47 <gavinandresen> then you don't understand UI design very well, imho
546 2012-04-03 15:03:02 <wumpus> let's add options for things only 1 person on the world uses
547 2012-04-03 15:03:23 <wumpus> since when has tonal to do with i18n? which country uses it?
548 2012-04-03 15:03:33 <luke-jr> btw, I was talking mostly about stuff like coinbaser and the fee stuff :p
549 2012-04-03 15:03:41 <gavinandresen> have we just been trolled?
550 2012-04-03 15:03:46 <graingert> you read from the locale the number format needed
551 2012-04-03 15:03:47 <wumpus> I guess
552 2012-04-03 15:03:56 <graingert> and display that
553 2012-04-03 15:04:03 <Jarzilla> Does ecoinpool allow more than 1 connection to a worker on an acccount?
554 2012-04-03 15:04:15 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you brought up tonal, not me :p
555 2012-04-03 15:04:39 <Graet> Jarzilla, yes
556 2012-04-03 15:04:41 <luke-jr> Jarzilla: don't think anyone here knows the answer to that
557 2012-04-03 15:04:46 <gavinandresen> jujitsu trolling, get your opponent to bring it up first....
558 2012-04-03 15:04:47 <luke-jr> ah, Graet does
559 2012-04-03 15:04:53 <Graet> works on ozcoin luke-jr
560 2012-04-03 15:04:59 <Graet> :)
561 2012-04-03 15:05:03 <Jarzilla> Awesome thanks man
562 2012-04-03 15:05:07 <Graet> :)
563 2012-04-03 15:05:36 <Jarzilla> PCE
564 2012-04-03 15:05:47 <luke-jr> PCE? O.o
565 2012-04-03 15:06:31 <graingert> luke-jr: you should submit your tonal request to get it added as a QLocale option
566 2012-04-03 15:06:55 <luke-jr> graingert: glibc first, but it's a lot of work
567 2012-04-03 15:07:00 <Graet> http://www.abbreviations.com/PCE got me :P
568 2012-04-03 15:07:37 <wumpus> maybe first convince some dictator to use it in his country, the locales will follow
569 2012-04-03 15:07:42 <luke-jr> graingert: the C standards and POSIX all assume decimal everywhere
570 2012-04-03 15:07:53 <graingert> shocking
571 2012-04-03 15:08:13 <luke-jr> wumpus: yeah, I guess that worked for SI
572 2012-04-03 15:08:16 <wumpus> does the entire world use the decimal number system these days?
573 2012-04-03 15:08:29 <wumpus> wow, at least something humanity can agree on. I'm surprised.
574 2012-04-03 15:08:30 <luke-jr> wumpus: except for people who use tonal and dozenal
575 2012-04-03 15:08:38 <luke-jr> not sure if there's any octal users
576 2012-04-03 15:09:23 <wumpus> luke-jr: I wonder what got you into that
577 2012-04-03 15:09:28 <graingert> totally think we should get roman numerals in as well
578 2012-04-03 15:09:34 <graingert> and base e
579 2012-04-03 15:10:05 <luke-jr> wumpus: hexadecimal seemed so obviously superior than decimal, but I didn't feel competent to make up a system on my own; so I went looking for an established preexisting one, and finally found it
580 2012-04-03 15:10:30 <luke-jr> amazingly, I think I found Tonal via a Slashdot comment
581 2012-04-03 15:10:32 <wumpus> using roman numerals would be classy
582 2012-04-03 15:10:53 <graingert> how is 4 represented on a clock
583 2012-04-03 15:10:58 <graingert> don't google
584 2012-04-03 15:10:59 <wumpus> luke-jr: yes, I saw there is actually a book about it
585 2012-04-03 15:11:01 <sipa> IV
586 2012-04-03 15:11:02 <graingert> it's cheating
587 2012-04-03 15:11:04 <sipa> no, IIII
588 2012-04-03 15:11:15 <graingert> sipa: did you cheat?
589 2012-04-03 15:11:18 <graingert> >.>
590 2012-04-03 15:11:18 <luke-jr> graingert: "4"
591 2012-04-03 15:11:21 <wumpus> only three I's in a row are allowed right?
592 2012-04-03 15:11:22 <graingert> luke-jr: sigh
593 2012-04-03 15:11:27 <luke-jr> :D
594 2012-04-03 15:11:30 <graingert> I meant a "roman" style clock
595 2012-04-03 15:11:31 <sipa> graingert: no
596 2012-04-03 15:11:35 <graingert> wumpus: nope
597 2012-04-03 15:11:42 <graingert> wumpus: you are allowed to google images now
598 2012-04-03 15:12:07 <sipa> any idea why?
599 2012-04-03 15:12:11 <wumpus> I see it on wikipedia now, weird
600 2012-04-03 15:13:28 <graingert> big ben is IV: http://i.imgur.com/MSWGE.png
601 2012-04-03 15:13:35 <wumpus> tonal has a wikipedia article too, somehow not surprised to see luke-jr as author  :-)
602 2012-04-03 15:14:08 <luke-jr> *an* author :p
603 2012-04-03 15:14:17 <wumpus> an, yes
604 2012-04-03 15:16:52 <imsaguy2> this quote sums it up well "This first hexadecimal system, proposed in the 19th century, had no success at all."
605 2012-04-03 15:18:08 <copumpkin> luke-jr: do you have an exposition somewhere of why it is superior to existing hexadecimal notation?
606 2012-04-03 15:18:46 <imsaguy2> read the wikipedia article
607 2012-04-03 15:18:52 <imsaguy2> its a decent start
608 2012-04-03 15:19:01 <copumpkin> I thought I had read it
609 2012-04-03 15:21:40 <luke-jr> copumpkin: tonal isn't merely notation, it's a complete system.
610 2012-04-03 15:22:30 <copumpkin> yeah, I guess I'm asking why keep the old notation if 1) everyone's already used to the new notation 2) nobody can type or even read the old notation without special fonts that they probably won't have unless they're already proponents of the system
611 2012-04-03 15:23:34 <luke-jr> copumpkin: Tonal is the old notation.
612 2012-04-03 15:23:41 <luke-jr> err, misread
613 2012-04-03 15:24:33 <luke-jr> copumpkin: everyone using Tonal, is used to the Tonal notation; furthermore, hexadecimal notation is inherently flawed for regular usage
614 2012-04-03 15:25:27 <luke-jr> copumpkin: finally, changing notation is effectively creating a new system; if someone wanted to do that, there are other bigger problems with tonal that should be addressed first
615 2012-04-03 15:25:39 <copumpkin> luke-jr: yeah, but I thought the goal was to appeal to a broader audience. I'm not vehemently opposed to using base-16 in more places, but I think it's unrealistic to expect me to start using PUA code points in things I expect other people to read
616 2012-04-03 15:26:00 <copumpkin> pick-up artists? :O
617 2012-04-03 15:26:06 <copumpkin> aha, private use areas! :)
618 2012-04-03 15:26:24 <luke-jr> copumpkin: personally, I would prefer to not share *any* codepoints with decimal :p
619 2012-04-03 15:27:00 <luke-jr> impossible to confuse the two if they used completely sets of digits
620 2012-04-03 15:27:44 <copumpkin> luke-jr: I can understand that, but even with unshared code points, the glyphs are very similar for most of the digits shared with decimal, which seems like it could be confusing
621 2012-04-03 15:29:21 <luke-jr> in any case, I see no immediate need to invent a new system
622 2012-04-03 15:29:26 <luke-jr> tonal works fine for me
623 2012-04-03 15:29:41 <copumpkin> :)
624 2012-04-03 15:34:52 <wumpus> does tonal also support fractions and/or real numbers? or is it integers only?
625 2012-04-03 15:37:05 <luke-jr> wumpus: of course
626 2012-04-03 15:37:15 <luke-jr> there are 4 fractional places in TBC
627 2012-04-03 15:37:49 <wumpus> right
628 2012-04-03 15:49:47 <Graet> https://blockchain.info/ fun and ghames again?
629 2012-04-03 15:50:19 <Graet> deebit orphaned ozcoin then built on ozcoins block (or was relayed thru)
630 2012-04-03 15:51:54 <Graet> 174162 and 174163
631 2012-04-03 15:54:18 <Cory> Why doesn't blockchain.info show a double arrow after 174161 like the other forks?
632 2012-04-03 15:55:08 <Graet> good q :P
633 2012-04-03 16:10:46 <Graet> i'm thinking the longest chain has stopped and the shorter one will keep growing and become valid
634 2012-04-03 16:17:45 <Cory> Another 4-block fork. :/
635 2012-04-03 16:18:05 <Diablo-D3> Graet: wouldnt that be hilarious
636 2012-04-03 16:19:55 <Graet> we just built on the norphan fork and won!!
637 2012-04-03 16:19:57 <Graet> lmao
638 2012-04-03 16:21:27 <pusle> deepbit builds on both? uhm
639 2012-04-03 16:22:17 <Graet> or blocks relayed thru deepbit
640 2012-04-03 16:22:29 <Graet> bit hard to tell sometimes
641 2012-04-03 16:23:24 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks as it should be now :P
642 2012-04-03 16:34:08 <wumpus> sipa,gavinandresen: #949 (VC2010 fixes) can go into 0.6.1? I've just rebased and verified that gitian win32 build still works
643 2012-04-03 16:34:18 <gavinandresen> wumpus: sure
644 2012-04-03 16:34:29 <wumpus> ok thanks
645 2012-04-03 16:34:43 <gavinandresen> that's the kind of code cleanup I like to see....
646 2012-04-03 16:36:03 <[Tycho]> Actually it's pretty easy to tell which are mine.
647 2012-04-03 16:36:46 <luke-jr> 936,987 ?
648 2012-04-03 16:38:39 <[Tycho]> But blockchaininfo's graphs are confusing
649 2012-04-03 16:39:49 <[Tycho]> I mined 3 blocks in a row on top of OzCoin to win this fork.
650 2012-04-03 16:42:00 <Graet> :D
651 2012-04-03 16:42:15 <Graet> i watched :)
652 2012-04-03 16:42:40 <Graet> then we put one on top lol
653 2012-04-03 16:43:23 <[Tycho]> I lost only one block since 01.04, for unrelated reason.
654 2012-04-03 16:43:56 <[Tycho]> But it's amazing that fireworks are still not ceased.
655 2012-04-03 16:44:09 <luke-jr> in 2012, war was beginning
656 2012-04-03 16:44:16 <luke-jr> <Graet> What happenI
657 2012-04-03 16:44:24 <luke-jr> <[Tycho]> Someone set us up the bomb
658 2012-04-03 16:45:12 <luke-jr> <Mystery Miner> Hello gentlemen. All your blocks are belong to us.
659 2012-04-03 16:45:14 <Graet> but we defused it, all is good :P
660 2012-04-03 16:45:36 <luke-jr> <Graet> ITS YOU!
661 2012-04-03 16:45:53 <luke-jr> <[Tycho]> Prepare all rig. You know what to do!"
662 2012-04-03 16:46:02 <Graet> shh luke-jr
663 2012-04-03 16:46:04 <luke-jr> <.<
664 2012-04-03 16:46:10 <Graet> you let out all my secrets :/
665 2012-04-03 16:46:11 <Graet> lmao
666 2012-04-03 16:46:30 <denisx> all your coinbase belong to us!
667 2012-04-03 16:46:51 <[Tycho]> Graet: do you know what game he refers to ?
668 2012-04-03 16:47:01 <Graet> no idea [Tycho]
669 2012-04-03 16:47:11 <Graet> lmao
670 2012-04-03 16:47:15 <forsetifox> Old Japanese poorly translated game. Heh.
671 2012-04-03 16:47:21 <[Tycho]> Graet: I suspected it.
672 2012-04-03 16:47:27 <Graet> i play no games anymore
673 2012-04-03 16:47:36 <forsetifox> Not even Fallout? =O
674 2012-04-03 16:47:37 <Graet> aqnd cod was about all i did
675 2012-04-03 16:47:41 <[Tycho]> No one played it, it's 8 bit for NES
676 2012-04-03 16:47:55 <luke-jr> XD
677 2012-04-03 16:48:02 <denisx> its from Zero Wing
678 2012-04-03 16:48:41 <Cory> Nobody in this channel doesn't get it.
679 2012-04-03 16:48:55 <luke-jr> Cory: except Graet
680 2012-04-03 16:49:05 <Graet> oneday soon i will trifire some 6950s or xfire some 7970s and play some cod again lmao
681 2012-04-03 16:49:18 <luke-jr> Graet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfwqvUPIRkg
682 2012-04-03 16:49:19 <Graet> i'm old and ignorant of most games
683 2012-04-03 16:49:46 <Cory> Graet: All your base are belong to us. You've heard that before.
684 2012-04-03 16:49:59 <Graet> i mhave heard it yes
685 2012-04-03 16:50:37 <luke-jr> Graet: this game is 1989
686 2012-04-03 16:50:42 <[Tycho]> Last time I remember launching any game was the day when I get my first 5970 more than a year ago. Tried to run Portal and HL2 on it and then took it out to a mining rig :)
687 2012-04-03 16:52:01 <Graet> 1989 hmm
688 2012-04-03 16:52:05 <Cory> I'm sure those really taxed your 5970.
689 2012-04-03 16:52:10 <denisx> I played crysis2 on three crossfired 5870 ;)
690 2012-04-03 16:52:19 <Graet> just moved to th country
691 2012-04-03 16:52:40 <Graet> i havent played a game since i had single 5770 :P
692 2012-04-03 17:00:22 <luke-jr> http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html <-- I'd like to see this plot in stack form
693 2012-04-03 17:05:24 <MC1984> 2 v7 nodes?
694 2012-04-03 17:05:26 <MC1984> wtf
695 2012-04-03 17:05:38 <MC1984> time travel mang
696 2012-04-03 17:05:46 <Diablo-D3> MAN
697 2012-04-03 17:05:49 <Diablo-D3> a lot of fuckers need to upgrade
698 2012-04-03 17:06:19 <luke-jr> MC1984: next-test reports 7000000 protocol
699 2012-04-03 17:06:26 <luke-jr> MC1984: due to the pong thing
700 2012-04-03 17:06:41 <MC1984> what
701 2012-04-03 17:06:54 <luke-jr> MC1984: that site only reports protocol versions, not clients
702 2012-04-03 17:07:06 <MC1984> same thing?
703 2012-04-03 17:07:08 <luke-jr> no
704 2012-04-03 17:07:14 <luke-jr> not since 0.6
705 2012-04-03 17:07:19 <MC1984> ok well protocol v7
706 2012-04-03 17:07:21 <MC1984> TIME TRAVEL
707 2012-04-03 17:07:30 <luke-jr> protocol v7 is currently claimed by v6 + pong reply
708 2012-04-03 17:07:45 <luke-jr> I know my node is one of those two :p
709 2012-04-03 17:07:46 <MC1984> ok v6+ TIME TRAVEL
710 2012-04-03 17:08:05 <MC1984> v6 came out 2 days ago
711 2012-04-03 17:08:13 <luke-jr> MC1984: so?
712 2012-04-03 17:08:57 <wumpus> there were already prereleases for a long time, which also had protocol version 6 I suppose?
713 2012-04-03 17:09:05 <gmaxwell> MC1984: people have been deploying release candidates for a long time.
714 2012-04-03 17:09:19 <luke-jr> MC1984: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=73945.0 reports proto v7
715 2012-04-03 17:09:23 <MC1984> no, its obviously time travel
716 2012-04-03 17:09:42 <luke-jr> MC1984: k, so time travel yourself with next-test :P
717 2012-04-03 17:10:04 <MC1984> i have seent he future, mining a block is a capital crime
718 2012-04-03 17:10:24 <luke-jr> in which jurisdiction?
719 2012-04-03 17:10:37 <wumpus> with time travel you could very easily cheat on other miners
720 2012-04-03 17:11:03 <luke-jr> wumpus: how?
721 2012-04-03 17:11:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: khorben opened pull request 1029 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1029>
722 2012-04-03 17:14:40 <MC1984> Also note this is the first next-test that excludes my Coinbaser enhancement. Click here for details.
723 2012-04-03 17:14:46 <MC1984> does that mean less bible verses?
724 2012-04-03 17:15:18 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: do you still have that node with the poison txn?
725 2012-04-03 17:15:33 <wumpus> luke-jr: good point, it doesn't really help to have the block chain of the future
726 2012-04-03 17:16:02 <luke-jr> wumpus: well, you could double-spend& just didn't see a miner-specific thing :p
727 2012-04-03 17:16:09 <wumpus> heh
728 2012-04-03 17:16:27 <luke-jr> for that matter, does ANYONE here have a pre-P2SH node running?>
729 2012-04-03 17:16:36 <luke-jr> running for at least a few days
730 2012-04-03 17:16:39 <[Tycho]> Yes.
731 2012-04-03 17:16:46 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: 0.5?
732 2012-04-03 17:16:53 <[Tycho]> Why ? 0.3.X
733 2012-04-03 17:16:57 <luke-jr> bleh
734 2012-04-03 17:17:06 <luke-jr> 0.5 is the only way I know how to extract txn pool
735 2012-04-03 17:17:53 <Graet> i do but its not a mining node
736 2012-04-03 17:18:16 <[Tycho]> I can extract TXes, but it's not in my memorypool.
737 2012-04-03 17:18:33 <[Tycho]> Why do you want it ? Just encode it in P2SH again.
738 2012-04-03 17:19:11 <luke-jr> Graet: every 0.5 has getmemorypool ;)
739 2012-04-03 17:19:18 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because nobody knows what it is
740 2012-04-03 17:20:07 <luke-jr> Graet: can you see if you have 4005d6bea3 (check debug.log) ?
741 2012-04-03 17:20:08 <[Tycho]> Blockchaininfo knows :)
742 2012-04-03 17:20:17 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: but it doesn't let us get at the info
743 2012-04-03 17:20:26 <[Tycho]> Have you tried to ask him ?
744 2012-04-03 17:20:29 <luke-jr> no
745 2012-04-03 17:20:38 <luke-jr> I'm impatient, and he responds slow. :P
746 2012-04-03 17:20:52 <[Tycho]> Why do you think it's not just P2SH-encoded 1-of-1 multisig ?
747 2012-04-03 17:22:09 <luke-jr> Graet: actually, your miner nodes' blk0001.dat would have it too :D
748 2012-04-03 17:23:32 <Graet> miner nodes are 0.6
749 2012-04-03 17:23:35 <djoot> any help? ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 4005d6bea3 P2SH VerifySignature failed
750 2012-04-03 17:23:43 <luke-jr> djoot: no
751 2012-04-03 17:23:50 <luke-jr> Graet: but they made blocks containing it in the past
752 2012-04-03 17:24:06 <Graet> tru that
753 2012-04-03 17:25:25 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you should be able to easily find it on the network but yes I still have that node up. Unfortunately I started it with listening disabled. :(
754 2012-04-03 17:25:59 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I can't, apparently nodes won't let you getdata old txns
755 2012-04-03 17:26:28 <gmaxwell> hm? they should let you getdata unless its fallen out of their memory pool.
756 2012-04-03 17:26:51 <gmaxwell> meh. it would kinda suck if the orphaning stopped and thus people didn't bother fixing their nodes, only to have it happen again weeks from now.
757 2012-04-03 17:29:21 <nanotube> so anyone who's not mining but using an older version, would generally be "ok" ?
758 2012-04-03 17:29:36 <nanotube> as long as they wait for more confs than usual? :)
759 2012-04-03 17:29:43 <gmaxwell> nanotube: Yes.
760 2012-04-03 17:30:03 <gmaxwell> assuming they don't get stuck on one of these forks due to the reorg bug.
761 2012-04-03 17:30:09 <Diablo-D3> top ten: deepbit, btcguild, slush, abc, maxbtc, bitlc, emc, eligius, p2pool, bitclockers
762 2012-04-03 17:30:22 <nanotube> gmaxwell: when was the reorg bug fixed?
763 2012-04-03 17:30:30 <Graet> abc is a pool?
764 2012-04-03 17:30:42 <Diablo-D3> yes
765 2012-04-03 17:30:52 <[Tycho]> Isn't it a proxy ?
766 2012-04-03 17:30:55 <Graet> yes
767 2012-04-03 17:30:58 <gmaxwell> Fortunately this doesn't appear to have happened yet probably because most of the deadend forks.
768 2012-04-03 17:31:05 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: What Graet said.
769 2012-04-03 17:31:16 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.0
770 2012-04-03 17:31:41 <gmaxwell> Poolhopping proxies shouldn't be listed in the count: (1) because their hashrate is double counted, (2) because their rate could be pure lies with no way of checking
771 2012-04-03 17:31:47 <[Tycho]> AFAIK it's a hopping proxy
772 2012-04-03 17:31:50 <Graet> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.msg829111#msg829111 Diablo-D3
773 2012-04-03 17:32:04 <Graet> they mine non ozcoin a *lot*
774 2012-04-03 17:32:07 <Graet> on*
775 2012-04-03 17:32:19 <Diablo-D3> if p2pool can be listed, so can they
776 2012-04-03 17:32:36 <[Tycho]> p2pool is at least really mining
777 2012-04-03 17:32:41 <Graet> ^^^
778 2012-04-03 17:32:52 <[Tycho]> But ABCpool is not.
779 2012-04-03 17:33:04 <Graet> why not list gpumax - they allegedly have >1ghash of power
780 2012-04-03 17:33:08 <Diablo-D3> well, its either that, or I delete the thread and ban abcpool from the board.
781 2012-04-03 17:33:15 <luke-jr> Graet: thash*
782 2012-04-03 17:33:27 <Graet> oop correct luke-jr :)
783 2012-04-03 17:33:35 <Diablo-D3> where is their thread
784 2012-04-03 17:33:36 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: (0) p2pool is actually pooling hashrate, (1) p2pool's hashrate isn't double counted, (2) p2pool's rate can be validated by anyone.
785 2012-04-03 17:33:48 <gmaxwell> s/hashrate/payments/ really but whatever.
786 2012-04-03 17:34:14 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: and I'd lean towards punting proxy services, if it had to be one or the other.
787 2012-04-03 17:36:36 <MC1984> dafuq is a pool proxy
788 2012-04-03 17:36:55 <MC1984> how many abstractions away from the actual network are we gonna have
789 2012-04-03 17:38:59 <Diablo-D3> top ten: deepbit, btcguild, slush, maxbtc, bitlc, emc, eligius, p2pool, bitclockers, ozcoin
790 2012-04-03 17:39:57 <luke-jr> how about removing the top 3? :P
791 2012-04-03 17:40:03 <luke-jr> they don't need any more miners
792 2012-04-03 17:40:19 <Diablo-D3> okay, Ill do it for 50 btc.
793 2012-04-03 17:42:53 <Diablo-D3> hrm
794 2012-04-03 17:42:59 <Diablo-D3> I should shitlist maxbtc
795 2012-04-03 17:43:15 <Diablo-D3> 465 ghash, 18 miners?
796 2012-04-03 17:43:54 <MC1984> ok according to http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html half the current network is still on v324
797 2012-04-03 17:44:04 <MC1984> no wonder block download is still toss
798 2012-04-03 17:44:38 <gmaxwell> MC1984: hm?
799 2012-04-03 17:44:53 <gmaxwell> 0.3.24 is post the fix against randomly hanging up on you.
800 2012-04-03 17:45:35 <MC1984> well its just shit then
801 2012-04-03 17:46:18 <MC1984> christ are there really less than 1000 proper nodes out there
802 2012-04-03 17:47:05 <gmaxwell> MC1984: nah, sipa has a couple thousand in his dnsseed list.
803 2012-04-03 17:47:45 <MC1984> there needs to be millions long term
804 2012-04-03 17:48:40 <gmaxwell> Er, I don't agree with that.
805 2012-04-03 17:48:47 <gmaxwell> Not millions at least.
806 2012-04-03 17:49:15 <MC1984> why not
807 2012-04-03 17:50:07 <gmaxwell> Because it would be realistic to support thousands of connections on dedicated nodes, though we don't today.
808 2012-04-03 17:50:56 <MC1984> so you want to centralise the network
809 2012-04-03 17:51:04 <gmaxwell> MC1984: ...
810 2012-04-03 17:51:24 <gmaxwell> MC1984: having 100,000 public nodes would be the most distributed system ever built.
811 2012-04-03 17:51:34 <gmaxwell> And yet it is still a far cry from millions.
812 2012-04-03 17:51:43 <MC1984> 100k minimum then
813 2012-04-03 17:51:56 <twmz> 5 trillion
814 2012-04-03 17:51:58 <gmaxwell> And presumably if there are someday many millions of bitcoin clients, a fair portion of them will be thin and lite nodes that don't have any reason to connect to 8 nodes.
815 2012-04-03 17:52:02 <twmz> if we are just randomly throwing out numbers...
816 2012-04-03 17:52:30 <MC1984> it is important that its very very distributed
817 2012-04-03 17:52:47 <wumpus> twmz: through spaaaace!
818 2012-04-03 17:53:02 <MC1984> otherwise why not just rent an ec2 and throw up a single ledger on that and try an butter up the govt not to pull it
819 2012-04-03 17:53:23 <MC1984> 100k nodes is a start id say
820 2012-04-03 17:53:25 <gmaxwell> Sure. But there are many orders of magnitude possible that still meets the definition of very distributed.
821 2012-04-03 17:53:27 <MC1984> long term
822 2012-04-03 17:53:35 <twmz> you're over exagerating the situation, I think
823 2012-04-03 17:53:39 <[Tycho]> "gmaxwell: 0.3.24 is post the fix against randomly hanging up on you." - what was that fix ?
824 2012-04-03 17:53:44 <luke-jr> MC1984: Bitcoin is government-friendly.
825 2012-04-03 17:53:57 <twmz> TOR is successfully avoiding government shutdown and they only have about 800 nodes
826 2012-04-03 17:54:29 <wumpus> that's been done MC1984, see loom.cc
827 2012-04-03 17:54:30 <MC1984> its not like theyve ever tried
828 2012-04-03 17:54:42 <MC1984> + tor is quite useful to the feds anyway
829 2012-04-03 17:54:43 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: older versions of bitcoin (0.3.19-0.3.23?) would hang up if a peer requested more than 10MB of blocks at once. Once the blocks started becoming large enough that started to cause problems (around block 100k or so).
830 2012-04-03 17:55:17 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: can you give me a link to the fix ? I want to check it.
831 2012-04-03 17:57:22 <gmaxwell> wumpus: man, your QT merge really swisscheezed the git history.
832 2012-04-03 17:57:27 <MC1984> wtf is loom.cc
833 2012-04-03 17:57:52 <Graet> would an "orphaned" block like 174162 normally not show in wallet until fork is resolved?
834 2012-04-03 17:58:00 <MC1984> also im sure the bittorrent dht is the largest distributed system in the world
835 2012-04-03 17:58:05 <MC1984> probably 100 million nodes
836 2012-04-03 17:59:01 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: It's commit 497317453422611a077f7f195eb193d3bb597a9c
837 2012-04-03 17:59:13 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
838 2012-04-03 17:59:24 <Diablo-D3> MC1984: loom is an an electronic payment service
839 2012-04-03 18:00:38 <wumpus> yes, a completely centralized one
840 2012-04-03 18:03:45 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes it was quite a long-term merge... but not the worst thing that happened, it was already weird before that (for example, why is "First Commit" in there twice)
841 2012-04-03 18:06:15 <MC1984> Decentralised electronic money systems include:
842 2012-04-03 18:06:16 <MC1984> Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic monetary system based on cryptography.
843 2012-04-03 18:06:24 <MC1984> wut
844 2012-04-03 18:08:31 <wumpus> loom is not decentralized afaik, or it must be something recent
845 2012-04-03 18:08:51 <Diablo-D3> its not
846 2012-04-03 18:08:57 <Diablo-D3> loom has been around for quite some time
847 2012-04-03 18:14:11 <MC1984> i dont get loom
848 2012-04-03 18:16:17 <MC1984> seems like boilerplate contract maker to me
849 2012-04-03 18:16:22 <nanotube> yea loom is basically a central db.
850 2012-04-03 18:16:35 <nanotube> ripple is decentraliz-able, but not currently decentralized.
851 2012-04-03 18:16:41 <nanotube> so ... i guess that just leaves bitcoin :)
852 2012-04-03 18:59:36 <luke-jr> I can't guess the scriptSig for 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2