1 2012-04-07 00:07:55 <sipa> does !windows { ... } in qmake also exclude mingw/linux?
  2 2012-04-07 00:11:25 <luke-jr> sipa: I think so.
  3 2012-04-07 00:14:48 <paulo_> are keypools still used?
  4 2012-04-07 00:16:01 <sipa> yes, certainly
  5 2012-04-07 00:30:32 <luke-jr> sipa: can you push 0.5.4rc3 to github?
  6 2012-04-07 01:20:18 <paulo_> why doesn't bitcoin quit sometimes?
  7 2012-04-07 01:20:39 <paulo_> it's still in the task manager
  8 2012-04-07 01:20:52 <luke-jr> it's slow.
  9 2012-04-07 07:37:13 <Diapolo> hi
 10 2012-04-07 08:18:48 <UukGoblin> I've just tested the idea of implementing mental poker (serverless/decentralized poker) - it will work like a charm for 2 players :-) https://github.com/goblin/mental_poker_poc
 11 2012-04-07 08:19:04 <UukGoblin> possibly more players, too, but that adds the possibility of collusion
 12 2012-04-07 08:19:21 <UukGoblin> anyway, I've been thinking, with the latest BIP16 stuff... would it be possible to entagle bitcoins into the play?
 13 2012-04-07 08:19:42 <UukGoblin> i.e. make some funny transactions that will be spendable only if the guy wins the pot? :-P
 14 2012-04-07 08:49:34 <blinkbat> its been 57 minutes since the last block
 15 2012-04-07 08:49:36 <blinkbat> whats happening?
 16 2012-04-07 08:50:00 <gribble> Error: "tslb" is not a valid command.
 17 2012-04-07 08:50:00 <sipa> ;;tslb
 18 2012-04-07 08:50:09 <sipa> ;;bc,tslb
 19 2012-04-07 08:50:10 <gribble> Time since last block: 58 minutes and 33 seconds
 20 2012-04-07 08:50:30 <gribble> (bc,prob <an alias, at least 1 argument>) -- Alias for "math calc 1-exp(-$1*1000 * [seconds $*] / (2**32* [bc,diff]))".
 21 2012-04-07 08:50:30 <sipa> ;;bc,prob
 22 2012-04-07 08:51:46 <sipa> ;;bc,prob [bc,calc [bc,nethash]*1000000] 1h
 23 2012-04-07 08:51:55 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
 24 2012-04-07 08:53:55 <blinkbat> its over an hour now
 25 2012-04-07 08:56:33 <sipa> ;;calc 1/(1-[bc,prob [calc [bc,nethash]*1000000] 1h])
 26 2012-04-07 08:56:34 <gribble> 195.579894387
 27 2012-04-07 08:56:49 <sipa> happens almost once a day
 28 2012-04-07 08:57:27 <sipa> nanotube: possible to get an alias for that?
 29 2012-04-07 08:58:20 <sipa> (gives the frequency of blocks of a duration that exceed 1h
 30 2012-04-07 09:08:54 <UukGoblin> I think a low-trust third party will be needed for that poker stuff
 31 2012-04-07 10:17:08 <blinkbat> i see sipa
 32 2012-04-07 11:48:00 <rebroad> well.. I've been trying to download a block now for a few hours...  my debug.log here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14309744/.bitcoin/debug.log
 33 2012-04-07 11:48:39 <luke-jr> rebroad: do you have a real internet connection now?
 34 2012-04-07 11:49:02 <rebroad> luke-jr, no, but seriously, I think bitcoin needs to be able to deal with non-real internet connections, as you call them
 35 2012-04-07 11:49:16 <rebroad> not everyone has the luxury of a "real" one...
 36 2012-04-07 11:49:30 <sipa> i don't think so
 37 2012-04-07 11:49:48 <sipa> i think bitcoin should be able to handle disconnected synchronization nodes better, though
 38 2012-04-07 11:50:15 <rebroad> and anyway, my non-real internet connection would cause problems for nodes with real connections I suspect
 39 2012-04-07 11:50:45 <rebroad> e.g. if they were downloading a block from me, they'd need to wait until the next one was announced... not so much a problem for them though as for me I realise
 40 2012-04-07 11:51:03 <luke-jr> so, they'd get disconnected from you and move on
 41 2012-04-07 11:51:24 <sipa> it's much more a problem for the downloader than for the rest
 42 2012-04-07 11:51:53 <sipa> als the rest can't be helped; if they connect to you, and the connection breaks, they need to find some other peer anyway
 43 2012-04-07 11:52:04 <sipa> whether or not you're going to reconnect somewhere else quickly
 44 2012-04-07 11:55:11 <TD> rebroad: you're the only person i know of who is trying to do advanced things on a non-real internet connection. seriously, i know it sucks, but i don't think this is a use case worth spending time on. once you finished moving house and get a non web-only connection this issue will go away
 45 2012-04-07 12:08:50 <blinkbat> rebroad: try using a non-blockchain thin clien
 46 2012-04-07 12:08:52 <blinkbat> t
 47 2012-04-07 12:39:18 <makomk> luke-jr: Git sort of has a replacement for svn's keywords feature. Look ath the git-archive manpage.
 48 2012-04-07 12:41:57 <luke-jr> makomk: don't see anything useful
 49 2012-04-07 12:49:13 <blinkbat> :P
 50 2012-04-07 12:53:06 <TD> can somebody put a temporary ban on rebroad?
 51 2012-04-07 12:53:24 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt could
 52 2012-04-07 14:22:33 <blinkbat> Hey guys
 53 2012-04-07 14:22:35 <blinkbat> whats wrong with bitcoin
 54 2012-04-07 14:22:40 <blinkbat> blocks are taking ages today
 55 2012-04-07 14:22:52 <blinkbat> I thought it was meant to be 10 minutes on average
 56 2012-04-07 14:23:32 <Graet> yes, average doesnt mean one exactly every 10 mins :)
 57 2012-04-07 14:23:39 <Graet> ;;bc,nethash
 58 2012-04-07 14:23:39 <gribble> 10241.586458781168
 59 2012-04-07 14:24:17 <gribble> 1.16435010116e+13
 60 2012-04-07 14:24:17 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,diff]*2**48/65535/600
 61 2012-04-07 14:24:18 <Graet> network hashrate calso appers to haved dropped, next difficulty change will be down
 62 2012-04-07 14:24:23 <gribble> 11643501.0116
 63 2012-04-07 14:24:23 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,diff]*2**48/65535/600/1000000
 64 2012-04-07 14:25:08 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,nethash] / ([bc,diff]*2**48/65535/600/1000000000)
 65 2012-04-07 14:25:09 <gribble> 0.879596819619
 66 2012-04-07 14:25:17 <sipa> we dropped 12%
 67 2012-04-07 14:25:21 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
 68 2012-04-07 14:25:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 174666 | Current Difficulty: 1626553.4813289 | Next Difficulty At Block: 175391 | Next Difficulty In: 725 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1547037.25930407 | Estimated Percent Change: -4.88863249427
 69 2012-04-07 14:26:11 <blinkbat> i had to wait over an hour for a block last time
 70 2012-04-07 14:26:15 <blinkbat> this time its 30 minutes
 71 2012-04-07 14:26:21 <blinkbat> i mean, this is unusable for general spending
 72 2012-04-07 14:26:29 <sipa> spending != confirming
 73 2012-04-07 14:26:38 <Graet> yep and earlier there were 3 blocks in under 2 minutes'
 74 2012-04-07 14:26:41 <sipa> blocks of 1 hour happen approximately once per day
 75 2012-04-07 14:26:46 <blinkbat> nobodys gonna accept an unconfirmed transaction over 1btc or so
 76 2012-04-07 14:27:20 <k9quaint> blinkbat: people do for billions of dollars all the time with credit cards
 77 2012-04-07 14:27:54 <sipa> credit card transactions are as fast as bitcoin transactions, but take weeks/months to confirm
 78 2012-04-07 14:30:30 <blinkbat> the problem is theres so much variance here
 79 2012-04-07 14:30:41 <blinkbat> you never know when its gonna confirm, so it could be 1 minute, or it could be an hour
 80 2012-04-07 14:30:44 <blinkbat> that is just annoying
 81 2012-04-07 14:30:54 <sipa> for now, yes
 82 2012-04-07 14:31:02 <sipa> but the bitcoin infrastructure is still young
 83 2012-04-07 14:31:13 <k9quaint> try thinking your money is in your account from a CC and then months later have it taken back
 84 2012-04-07 14:31:26 <sipa> and i don't think waiting for confirmations will be a aproblem in the future
 85 2012-04-07 14:32:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1056 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1056> || graingert opened issue 1055 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1055>
 86 2012-04-07 14:32:48 <blinkbat> finally a new block
 87 2012-04-07 14:50:34 <makomk> luke-jr: export-subst git attribute.
 88 2012-04-07 15:05:06 <sipa> does anyone have an idea why SendMessages needs cs_main?
 89 2012-04-07 15:08:14 <rebroad> flushing the blkindex.dat is taking more than 6 minutes now since using the latest version... I'm fairly certain it's the "dbenv.set_lg_bsize(1048576);" line in db.cpp that's the cause of the trouble for me...
 90 2012-04-07 15:08:36 <sipa> rebroad: i seriously doubt that
 91 2012-04-07 15:19:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened issue 1057 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1057>
 92 2012-04-07 15:20:09 <luke-jr> sipa: export-subst looks useful
 93 2012-04-07 15:24:51 <mcorlett> What is the situation with TruCoin like? I know this isn't strictly related to development, but I figured the people in here would be more likely to give a good answer.
 94 2012-04-07 16:51:41 <sipa> luke-jr: nice!
 95 2012-04-07 16:51:55 <sipa> seems to be very powerful when used in a slightly hacky way
 96 2012-04-07 16:52:22 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/blob/buildinfo/src/version.cpp#L26
 97 2012-04-07 16:54:48 <luke-jr> lol nice
 98 2012-04-07 16:55:05 <luke-jr> but won't that redefine GIT_COMMIT if build.h has something too?
 99 2012-04-07 16:55:17 <luke-jr> might need to ifdef+undef it first
100 2012-04-07 16:55:59 <sipa> build.h shouldn't define GIT_COMMIT :)
101 2012-04-07 16:57:06 <luke-jr> o
102 2012-04-07 16:57:47 <sipa> it's only used for git describe output now
103 2012-04-07 16:58:01 <sipa> so it doesn't require running from the project root either
104 2012-04-07 17:06:11 <sipa> now only find a way to run the substitution processor inside gitian, so it's included in the build's src dir
105 2012-04-07 17:24:04 <luke-jr> sipa: gitian doesn't have .git ?
106 2012-04-07 17:24:24 <luke-jr> are we allowed to rewrite gitian in a sane way? <.<
107 2012-04-07 17:28:47 <sipa> luke-jr: ?
108 2012-04-07 17:29:01 <sipa> gitian does a not git fetch inside the VM, it has everything
109 2012-04-07 17:29:13 <sipa> but the gitian output contains binaries + source
110 2012-04-07 17:29:32 <sipa> and i want that source to be the output of git-archive (i.e. processed by export-subst)
111 2012-04-07 17:29:53 <sipa> and not simply cp'd from the working copy
112 2012-04-07 17:41:35 <luke-jr> sipa: i c, sounds easy enough
113 2012-04-07 17:41:43 <luke-jr> sipa: just have our gitian script do a git archive instead of cp
114 2012-04-07 17:41:56 <luke-jr> harder might be getting the installer source patched
115 2012-04-07 17:44:53 <sipa> meh, does anyone use that on windows?
116 2012-04-07 17:58:06 <riush_> is there a patch for a verifytx rpc command or something like that?
117 2012-04-07 17:59:02 <luke-jr> riush_: no, but I've been considering making one
118 2012-04-07 18:00:19 <riush_> ah. yea it would be great to check alternate implementations.. and i imagine it wouldn't be much work for someone familiar with the code
119 2012-04-07 18:00:53 <riush_> i tried it once, managed to read a script, but failed creating the tx structure :p
120 2012-04-07 18:01:18 <luke-jr> riush_: check out Eloipool's source? :P
121 2012-04-07 18:03:08 <riush_> hm? that's in pyhon
122 2012-04-07 18:03:21 <luke-jr> yes
123 2012-04-07 18:03:27 <luke-jr> but it creates tx structures
124 2012-04-07 18:04:04 <riush_> yea, i can create a tx with ruby.. but i want to verify it against bitcoind
125 2012-04-07 18:04:44 <sipa> just submit a hex-encoded transaction, and get either a "ok, submitted to p2p network" or a "failed, because: ..."?
126 2012-04-07 18:05:39 <luke-jr> riush_: I'd do verifytx(txndata, prevblock)
127 2012-04-07 18:05:46 <luke-jr> => "failure reason"
128 2012-04-07 18:06:44 <luke-jr> hmm
129 2012-04-07 18:10:12 <riush_> submit how? i know i can just relay it to the node and look at the logs.. but was hoping for someting more direct for debugging
130 2012-04-07 18:10:31 <sipa> it shouldn't be hard to write that
131 2012-04-07 18:10:48 <sipa> basically just an RPC call that deserializes, and pushes into AcceptToMemoryPool
132 2012-04-07 18:12:22 <riush_> yea, that's what i tried, but couldn't figure out how to create the tx in C++ ;)
133 2012-04-07 18:12:51 <luke-jr> check submitblock :P
134 2012-04-07 18:13:12 <luke-jr> sipa: it might make sense to have a verifytx that *doesn't* add to memorypool&
135 2012-04-07 18:14:42 <sipa> luke-jr: agree
136 2012-04-07 18:15:03 <sipa> seems reasonable for 0.7 to me
137 2012-04-07 18:16:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: or just a flag on verifytx to control that
138 2012-04-07 18:16:44 <gmaxwell> the next question is should it insert once if it inserts or treat it as a wallet txn and advertise it forever.
139 2012-04-07 18:17:42 <luke-jr> verifytx("txndata", {"share":true, "save":false, "prevblock":"fail unless prevblock is correct"})
140 2012-04-07 18:45:56 <TD> hmm
141 2012-04-07 18:46:09 <TD> what happened on testnet at block 46739
142 2012-04-07 18:46:24 <TD> it's of min difficulty but it's -19 seconds from the previous block, not >20 minutes
143 2012-04-07 18:57:28 <TD> urgh
144 2012-04-07 18:57:31 <TD> there's a bug
145 2012-04-07 18:57:34 <TD> sipa: you there?
146 2012-04-07 18:57:40 <sipa> yes
147 2012-04-07 18:57:48 <sipa> what's the problem?
148 2012-04-07 18:58:18 <TD> // If the new block's timestamp is more than 2* 10 minutes
149 2012-04-07 18:58:19 <TD> if (pblock->nTime - pindexLast->nTime > nTargetSpacing*2)
150 2012-04-07 18:58:46 <TD> if a block has a timestamp that comes before the previous block this check won't work.
151 2012-04-07 18:59:01 <TD> at least not according to my little test
152 2012-04-07 18:59:10 <sipa> won't work, as in always succeed?
153 2012-04-07 19:00:00 <TD> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/00000000a29bea9ee5b1716d7ebd6e33691d92c4c8bb518db380d952840bfe54
154 2012-04-07 19:00:02 <TD> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/0000000012e4d4f294b974c753316f636c3c0aa817cec9c3f1a1514fef707ae7
155 2012-04-07 19:00:04 <TD> here we see it
156 2012-04-07 19:00:13 <TD> 46739 has a min difficulty (branch was taken)
157 2012-04-07 19:00:15 <sipa> right; nTime is an unsigned integer
158 2012-04-07 19:00:33 <sipa> so you get an integer overflow when subtracting them
159 2012-04-07 19:00:47 <TD> yes
160 2012-04-07 19:01:03 <TD> maybe it's not worth fixing as it's just the testnet :(
161 2012-04-07 19:01:16 <TD> i can implement a workaround in bitcoinj (trying to implement the new rules now)
162 2012-04-07 19:01:21 <sipa> there have been so many testnet forks the past few months/weeks, that i'd prefer doing a full reset instead of just fixing it
163 2012-04-07 19:01:52 <sipa> although those have been very interesting for seeing how the code dealt with such large reorganisations
164 2012-04-07 19:02:26 <TD> testnet is pretty broken by now. there are lots of un-upgraded nodes that are stuck tens of thousands of blocks behind
165 2012-04-07 19:02:33 <sipa> yes
166 2012-04-07 19:03:36 <sipa> there have been splits both by the new min-difficulty rules, a BIP16-incompatible block, and a BIP30-incompatible block (that last one introduced during testing of the BIP30 patch)
167 2012-04-07 19:04:31 <TD> i wonder if we should just give up on the idea of public testnets
168 2012-04-07 19:05:29 <sipa> maybe a --testnet=<id>, and tcp port and network magic bytes were derived using SHA256 from that id
169 2012-04-07 19:06:26 <TD> well, you can just point code at a testnet-in-a-box
170 2012-04-07 19:07:06 <sipa> sure, but sometimes a more-or-less public testnet is useful
171 2012-04-07 19:29:04 <Samuel> Hello. ANyone here that's working on the Bitcoin app? I'd like to see if their are any new updates.
172 2012-04-07 19:30:04 <Eliel> since when?
173 2012-04-07 19:30:09 <luke-jr> Samuel: we're just doing cleanup now
174 2012-04-07 19:30:16 <BlueMatt> which app?
175 2012-04-07 19:30:40 <Samuel> Any snapshots?
176 2012-04-07 19:31:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: Bitcoin-Qt
177 2012-04-07 19:31:18 <BlueMatt> ah
178 2012-04-07 19:31:31 <sipa> Samuel: contrary to what you may think, most code changes don't actually have an effect on what the user sees
179 2012-04-07 19:32:46 <Samuel> sipa: Ok, well I'm all about the design! Last snapshot I saw their were some deisgn-related things I thought should be changed.
180 2012-04-07 19:33:24 <Samuel> *design
181 2012-04-07 19:34:15 <sipa> there have been almost 300 commits since 0.5.3, and more than 40 since 0.6.0, but almost no visible changes
182 2012-04-07 19:34:39 <luke-jr> sipa: 0.5 to 0.6 had quite a bit visible&
183 2012-04-07 19:34:58 <Samuel> What about all the design things tcatm and I came up with, the sidebar and all?
184 2012-04-07 19:35:05 <BlueMatt> well, hopefully 0.7 will get tcatm's new design
185 2012-04-07 19:35:10 <Samuel> ohh ok
186 2012-04-07 19:35:22 <BlueMatt> well, yours/tcatm's
187 2012-04-07 19:35:26 <sipa> luke-jr: adding of the sign message function and the add of a backup menu... that's it, no?
188 2012-04-07 19:35:28 <Samuel> Thats what I wanted an update on, tcatm's design
189 2012-04-07 19:35:34 <luke-jr> sipa: QR code
190 2012-04-07 19:35:35 <TD> even at ~1000 blocks per second waiting for the chain to download is pretty boring
191 2012-04-07 19:36:05 <sipa> luke-jr: oh yes
192 2012-04-07 19:36:06 <Samuel> brb
193 2012-04-07 19:36:32 <BlueMatt> Samuel: not sure tcatm has had the time to work on it that much, or atleast, I havent seen any updated screenshots
194 2012-04-07 19:36:45 <BlueMatt> Samuel: its gonna be a while before its merged anyway (got 0.6.1 first)
195 2012-04-07 19:37:37 <tcatm> I don't think the new design is a 0.7 thing. Maybe if we agree to merge the sidebar only first...
196 2012-04-07 19:37:56 <sipa> 0.7 is at least 2 months away
197 2012-04-07 19:38:14 <sipa> plenty of time
198 2012-04-07 19:38:29 <tcatm> Not much time to test a new GUI on all relevant platforms, though.
199 2012-04-07 19:39:00 <sipa> all depends on how large the required changes are - you know that better than anyone else here, i assume
200 2012-04-07 19:42:24 <Samuel> Im back. Yeah, the design may take a bit to finalize but it can happen
201 2012-04-07 19:42:33 <Samuel> tcatm: any new screenshots?
202 2012-04-07 19:43:26 <tcatm> nope
203 2012-04-07 19:43:49 <Samuel> can you link to latest version?
204 2012-04-07 19:44:09 <BlueMatt> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert17.png
205 2012-04-07 19:44:10 <Samuel> last time I saw there were some things I saw that could be changed
206 2012-04-07 19:44:21 <BlueMatt> (is the last I see)
207 2012-04-07 19:44:34 <Samuel> yeah i think thats it thanks
208 2012-04-07 19:45:10 <TD> hmm i saw a slicker looking one
209 2012-04-07 19:45:19 <TD> well, i guess having big buttons on the side isn't actually a problem
210 2012-04-07 19:47:05 <tcatm> Samuel: better icons for the statusbar would be great
211 2012-04-07 19:47:37 <Samuel> Like the signal strength and stuff at the bottom left?
212 2012-04-07 19:47:49 <tcatm> yep
213 2012-04-07 19:51:12 <sipa> luke-jr: the unit test problem?
214 2012-04-07 19:52:10 <sipa> #1052 fixes that
215 2012-04-07 19:52:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fresh446 opened issue 1058 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1058>
216 2012-04-07 19:52:55 <Samuel> tcatm: http://cl.ly/0k0r3U3F2r0W241G1y17
217 2012-04-07 19:54:22 <tcatm> I think the little line is some artefact I can't seem to reproduce.
218 2012-04-07 19:55:13 <Samuel> Hmmm
219 2012-04-07 19:56:27 <Samuel> You are also using the old set of icons, didn't I send you the bigger ones along with a white set for when the tab is selected?
220 2012-04-07 19:58:46 <tcatm> Samuel: Yep. I haven't found time to intergrate them yet. Also, changing the icons is a little tricky.
221 2012-04-07 19:59:22 <Samuel> Ok.
222 2012-04-07 20:01:18 <Samuel> I'm working with a guy at https://paytunia.com/ on the Paytunia online wallet
223 2012-04-07 20:12:16 <Samuel> See ya guys later. Gotta go
224 2012-04-07 20:33:40 <BitAvenue> Hi
225 2012-04-07 21:02:58 <[Tycho]> Hello.
226 2012-04-07 21:05:22 <TuxBlackEdo> hey [Tycho]
227 2012-04-07 21:05:28 <TuxBlackEdo> how's it going?
228 2012-04-07 21:05:32 <TuxBlackEdo> what are you up to?
229 2012-04-07 21:05:36 <TuxBlackEdo> anything new?
230 2012-04-07 21:05:40 <TuxBlackEdo> how's the family?
231 2012-04-07 21:05:43 <TuxBlackEdo> how's the dog?
232 2012-04-07 21:05:45 <TuxBlackEdo> how's the cat?
233 2012-04-07 21:05:48 <[Tycho]> Partially.
234 2012-04-07 21:06:02 <sipa> I would prefer my cat to be not too partial.
235 2012-04-07 21:06:12 <TuxBlackEdo> i am with sipa on this
236 2012-04-07 21:06:23 <sipa> That is, assuming I had a cat.
237 2012-04-07 21:08:02 <TuxBlackEdo> [Tycho], i would have kept going had you not said anything
238 2012-04-07 21:09:43 <t7> is there notation to describe the reverse of modulo? like 13 mod 5 = 3    and   3 unmod 5 = 3,8,13....
239 2012-04-07 21:10:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: wizkoder opened issue 1060 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1060> || wizkoder opened issue 1059 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1059>
240 2012-04-07 21:16:23 <TuxBlackEdo> t7, what mathematicians usually mean by "13 mod 5" is closer to {3, 8, 13, ...} than to 3 anyway.
241 2012-04-07 21:19:15 <[Tycho]> A bit busy with the new projects - Icbit, Reclaimer and so on.
242 2012-04-07 21:26:14 <luke-jr> [19:06:02] <sipa> I would prefer my cat to be not too partial. <-- this
243 2012-04-07 21:26:46 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: Deepbit should switch to Eloipool!
244 2012-04-07 21:26:52 <[Tycho]> Why ?
245 2012-04-07 21:27:07 <[Tycho]> Our pool core is far more superior.
246 2012-04-07 21:27:28 <sipa> And horribly outdated.
247 2012-04-07 21:27:37 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: How goes the sendmany deployment?
248 2012-04-07 21:27:52 <[Tycho]> http://scp-wiki.wdfiles.com/local--files/scp-529/SCP-529.jpg
249 2012-04-07 21:27:56 <gmaxwell> Figured out how to switch to using compressed public keys in your pay-to-publickey-transactions?
250 2012-04-07 21:28:33 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no, Eloipool is more superior because it is easy to read, fast, and FREE SOFTWARE
251 2012-04-07 21:28:33 <[Tycho]> Not yet. It's in my to-do list, but "[Tycho]: A bit busy with the new projects - Icbit, Reclaimer and so on"
252 2012-04-07 21:28:56 <[Tycho]> Why do you think that free is better ?
253 2012-04-07 21:29:09 <[Tycho]> And why do you think that it is easier to read ?
254 2012-04-07 21:29:11 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I have to explain the obvious? :<
255 2012-04-07 21:29:34 <kingkatari> has any pool owners used Simplecoin???
256 2012-04-07 21:29:41 <luke-jr> kingkatari: I think so.
257 2012-04-07 21:30:00 <kingkatari> anyone familer with its setup
258 2012-04-07 21:30:08 <kingkatari> i am having some probs
259 2012-04-07 21:30:25 <luke-jr> outside of #bitcoin-poolowners, probably not.
260 2012-04-07 21:30:48 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: but you mentioned it as a reason why it is "more superior", so you are implying that it is easier to read.
261 2012-04-07 21:31:04 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: all 3 combined make it superior!
262 2012-04-07 21:31:26 <[Tycho]> Is  OzCoin using eloipool ?
263 2012-04-07 21:31:32 <luke-jr> no, they use ecoinpool
264 2012-04-07 21:31:47 <luke-jr> which is pretty cool
265 2012-04-07 21:31:47 <[Tycho]> Who is using eloipool then, besides Eligius ?
266 2012-04-07 21:31:53 <luke-jr> but I don't know Erlang
267 2012-04-07 21:32:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: TripleMining
268 2012-04-07 21:32:12 <[Tycho]> Eww, I hate exotic languages.
269 2012-04-07 21:32:22 <luke-jr> I don't hate them, but I prefer something I understand
270 2012-04-07 21:32:27 <[Tycho]> But I had to use ejabberd because there are no alternatives.
271 2012-04-07 21:32:28 <luke-jr> that's why I wrote Eloipool in Python.
272 2012-04-07 21:32:57 <gmaxwell> Erlang is at least an industrial language not just a thought experiment or PHD-fodder. :)
273 2012-04-07 21:33:04 <[Tycho]> Deepbit's pool core is written in even more exotic language, but that's a long story.
274 2012-04-07 21:33:29 <luke-jr> everyone knows Python by now.
275 2012-04-07 21:34:03 <sipa> [Tycho]: which one? :D
276 2012-04-07 21:34:13 <sipa> VB.net?
277 2012-04-07 21:34:22 <sipa> PHP?
278 2012-04-07 21:34:24 <luke-jr> sipa: not even [Tycho] is that insane.
279 2012-04-07 21:34:36 <[Tycho]> No, that would be Icbit.
280 2012-04-07 21:34:40 <luke-jr> &
281 2012-04-07 21:34:51 <luke-jr> I hope you mean PHP for Icbit.
282 2012-04-07 21:34:52 <[Tycho]> (joke)
283 2012-04-07 21:34:58 <luke-jr> heh ok
284 2012-04-07 21:35:01 <[Tycho]> ICBIT is not in VB.
285 2012-04-07 21:35:09 <sturles> Intercal?
286 2012-04-07 21:35:13 <luke-jr> even VB6 is better than VB.net
287 2012-04-07 21:35:13 <[Tycho]> But runs on Windows. Partially.
288 2012-04-07 21:35:23 <sipa> sturles: i would be very impressed!
289 2012-04-07 21:35:30 <luke-jr> I had to maintain a VB6 program once.
290 2012-04-07 21:35:40 <luke-jr> I wrote a Makefile that used WINE and VB6's CLI compiler&
291 2012-04-07 21:38:00 <[Tycho]> My favorite language is C.
292 2012-04-07 21:38:18 <luke-jr> I do like C, but many people don't know it.
293 2012-04-07 21:38:27 <[Tycho]> Poor things.
294 2012-04-07 21:38:29 <luke-jr> and pushpool was already C.
295 2012-04-07 21:39:01 <[Tycho]> I never tried pushpool, but some people think it was not so good.
296 2012-04-07 21:39:07 <luke-jr> it sucks.
297 2012-04-07 21:39:15 <[Tycho]> And it was created after Deepbit, AFAIR.
298 2012-04-07 21:39:21 <luke-jr> probably.
299 2012-04-07 21:39:38 <luke-jr> if Deepbit closed, Eligius would be the 2nd oldest pool
300 2012-04-07 21:39:42 <luke-jr> that would be cool.
301 2012-04-07 21:39:52 <[Tycho]> What about OneFixt ?
302 2012-04-07 21:40:01 <luke-jr> does it count, since he closed doors for many months?
303 2012-04-07 21:40:07 <luke-jr> hmm
304 2012-04-07 21:40:09 <[Tycho]> Partially.
305 2012-04-07 21:40:12 <OneFixt> hehe, bitpenny is a bit older than deepbit
306 2012-04-07 21:40:15 <luke-jr> like your cat.
307 2012-04-07 21:43:00 <[Tycho]> I wonder how they create P2SH addresses from scripts...
308 2012-04-07 21:43:24 <luke-jr> &
309 2012-04-07 21:44:01 <sipa> script -> sha256 -> sha160 -> prefix 0x05 -> base58
310 2012-04-07 21:44:08 <[Tycho]> I never tried to serialize things without bitcoind.
311 2012-04-07 21:44:23 <[Tycho]> Other parts are not a problem.
312 2012-04-07 21:44:27 <sipa> there's even PHP code that can do that :)
313 2012-04-07 21:44:41 <[Tycho]> I have PHP code to create addresses.
314 2012-04-07 21:45:58 <[Tycho]> Paying to P2SH is not a problem since you don't need to create it, it's already provided by users.
315 2012-04-07 21:46:21 <[Tycho]> But receiving can be a challenge.
316 2012-04-07 21:46:28 <luke-jr> I'm thinking signmessage.
317 2012-04-07 21:46:37 <[Tycho]> What ?
318 2012-04-07 21:46:47 <luke-jr> I authenticate users by their address.
319 2012-04-07 21:46:54 <sipa> [Tycho]: just construct the script you want to pay to?
320 2012-04-07 21:46:57 <sipa> and hahs it
321 2012-04-07 21:46:59 <sipa> hash
322 2012-04-07 21:47:02 <luke-jr> but you can't exactly sign from P2SH :/
323 2012-04-07 21:47:07 <[Tycho]> sipa: and what about "serialization" ?
324 2012-04-07 21:47:21 <sipa> [Tycho]: ?
325 2012-04-07 21:47:38 <[Tycho]> The description mentions "serialized script".
326 2012-04-07 21:47:43 <sipa> yes
327 2012-04-07 21:47:55 <sipa> how are you going to store it, otherwise?
328 2012-04-07 21:48:23 <[Tycho]> As byte sequence.
329 2012-04-07 21:48:31 <sipa> = serialized
330 2012-04-07 21:48:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: pretty much it just means, you put a PUSH opcode before it
331 2012-04-07 21:48:57 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: where ?
332 2012-04-07 21:49:03 <luke-jr> &
333 2012-04-07 21:49:08 <luke-jr> before it.
334 2012-04-07 21:49:53 <[Tycho]> Hmm.
335 2012-04-07 21:50:00 <sipa> ok, assume the script you want to push is "3 7", which would be serialized as 0x0307
336 2012-04-07 21:50:11 <sipa> no, wait
337 2012-04-07 21:50:15 <[Tycho]> But this opcode is not included in hashed part ?
338 2012-04-07 21:50:27 <[Tycho]> 3 7 is not 0307
339 2012-04-07 21:50:42 <luke-jr> 3037
340 2012-04-07 21:51:02 <ab37> Can anyone help me set up my bitcoin miner on ubuntu 10.10 64bit w/ nvidia geforce 6150SE?
341 2012-04-07 21:51:02 <[Tycho]> 0x5357
342 2012-04-07 21:51:22 <sipa> [Tycho] is right
343 2012-04-07 21:51:24 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: SW?
344 2012-04-07 21:51:25 <ab37> or direct me somewhere i can find help
345 2012-04-07 21:51:31 <[Tycho]> SW ?
346 2012-04-07 21:51:35 <sipa> ab37: #bitcoin-mining
347 2012-04-07 21:51:36 <luke-jr> ab37: nobody will waste their time
348 2012-04-07 21:51:39 <luke-jr> 0x5357 = "SW"
349 2012-04-07 21:51:55 <[Tycho]> Oh, I thought SW = Sorry, What ?
350 2012-04-07 21:52:00 <ab37> sipa: thank you
351 2012-04-07 21:52:33 <sipa> [Tycho]: anyway, inside the scriptSig you get the script 'push 0x5357', which itself is serialized as 0x025357
352 2012-04-07 21:52:52 <ab37> @ Luke-JR worth a try i all ready tryed google but came up with tutorials that where outdated
353 2012-04-07 21:52:57 <[Tycho]> sipa: and I'm hashing only 5357, without push ?
354 2012-04-07 21:53:02 <luke-jr> ab37: that's because *nobody* mines on nvidia
355 2012-04-07 21:53:03 <sipa> [Tycho]: indeed
356 2012-04-07 21:53:52 <forsetifox> 6150SE is oneboard also? So it's really really bad for mining.
357 2012-04-07 21:54:16 <[Tycho]> sipa: is current bitcoind capable of sending to P2SH ?
358 2012-04-07 21:54:23 <ab37> look i know that im not dumb just poor i found somone willing to invest i just need proof of concept
359 2012-04-07 21:54:37 <ab37> and he will invest in good hardware
360 2012-04-07 21:55:05 <sipa> [Tycho]: on testnet, yes
361 2012-04-07 21:55:09 <ab37> i just have the position of somewhat knowing how to set it up
362 2012-04-07 21:55:12 <sipa> 0.6.1 will enable it on mainnet
363 2012-04-07 21:55:26 <[Tycho]> Enable what exactly ?
364 2012-04-07 21:55:41 <forsetifox> You've got about 7-8 months till the reward changes. You may not pay the hardware off in time. And you have to pay for power too?
365 2012-04-07 21:55:50 <[Tycho]> Will 0.6 allow P2SH in "sendtoaddress" ?
366 2012-04-07 21:56:07 <luke-jr> sipa: I think you can send on mainnet in 0.6.0 too
367 2012-04-07 21:56:30 <forsetifox> Try guiminer ab37.
368 2012-04-07 21:56:36 <luke-jr> &
369 2012-04-07 21:57:17 <[Tycho]> sipa: do I need anything else besides 0x025357 in redeeming script ?
370 2012-04-07 21:57:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you need 5357 to be a valid script :p
371 2012-04-07 21:57:57 <sipa> [Tycho]: yes, the inputs to the redeeming script
372 2012-04-07 21:58:06 <sipa> luke-jr: you're right
373 2012-04-07 21:58:16 <sipa> [Tycho]: send to p2sh address should work in 0.6.0, yes
374 2012-04-07 21:58:21 <[Tycho]> 5357 should be valid enough, no ?
375 2012-04-07 21:58:33 <sipa> [Tycho]: it is, but it's a bit of a pointless script
376 2012-04-07 21:58:42 <sipa> (it's always valid)
377 2012-04-07 21:58:52 <[Tycho]> What inputs ?
378 2012-04-07 21:58:57 <sipa> ...
379 2012-04-07 21:59:17 <sipa> if you do a normal pay-to-pubkey-hash
380 2012-04-07 21:59:25 <luke-jr> opcode 53 is disabled
381 2012-04-07 21:59:30 <[Tycho]> Oh, NORMAL...
382 2012-04-07 21:59:37 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: no way
383 2012-04-07 21:59:59 <sipa> the scriptPubKey is [bla ADDRESS bla], scriptSig is [signature] [pubkey]
384 2012-04-07 22:00:07 <sipa> if you want to do the same in P2SH
385 2012-04-07 22:00:08 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: disabled ? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/0f24294a1d23efbb49c1765cf443fba7930702752aba6d765870082fe4f13cae#i4854451
386 2012-04-07 22:00:37 <[Tycho]> Take six 53s in a row :)
387 2012-04-07 22:00:42 <sipa> scriptPubKey becomes [magic HASH([bla ADDRESS bla])], scriptSig becomes [signature] [pubkey] [[bla ADDRESS bla]]
388 2012-04-07 22:00:50 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I think you mean PUSH(3)
389 2012-04-07 22:01:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: also, 0x53 is not '3'
390 2012-04-07 22:01:08 <sipa> it is
391 2012-04-07 22:01:12 <luke-jr> no, it isn't.
392 2012-04-07 22:01:17 <[Tycho]> OP_3 is 0x53
393 2012-04-07 22:01:21 <luke-jr> it's 'S'
394 2012-04-07 22:01:29 <sipa> it's formatted as 3
395 2012-04-07 22:01:42 <sipa> yes, in ASCII it's 'S'
396 2012-04-07 22:01:42 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: check the link.
397 2012-04-07 22:01:49 <luke-jr> oh, that 3
398 2012-04-07 22:02:03 <luke-jr> nm
399 2012-04-07 22:02:14 <[Tycho]> It works as push(3)
400 2012-04-07 22:02:22 <[Tycho]> Real 4
401 2012-04-07 22:02:24 <[Tycho]> *3
402 2012-04-07 22:05:56 <[Tycho]> sipa: can you write me a P2SH address for 5357 script ?
403 2012-04-07 22:06:17 <[Tycho]> Is it 37paP4uTjmA4Pi85LG6CF9huift3Dw1kFT or not ?
404 2012-04-07 22:07:36 <[Tycho]> It's consulting, why would anyone charge for this ?
405 2012-04-07 22:14:24 <sipa> 37paP4uTjmA4Pi85LG6CF9huift3Dw1kFT
406 2012-04-07 22:14:25 <sipa> indeed
407 2012-04-07 22:15:02 <midnightmagic> ...  ab37 needs someone to help him set something up so he can make money off it.
408 2012-04-07 22:15:12 <midnightmagic> that's..
409 2012-04-07 22:15:25 <midnightmagic> sigh
410 2012-04-07 22:15:35 <sipa> he won't
411 2012-04-07 22:15:48 <[Tycho]> Wow !
412 2012-04-07 22:15:52 <midnightmagic> sipa: And in #bitcoin-bots, he writes, "07:47 < ab37> Any open Source IRC botnts?"
413 2012-04-07 22:16:05 <sipa> ...
414 2012-04-07 22:16:15 <midnightmagic> what the hell does that mean
415 2012-04-07 22:16:17 <[Tycho]> Amazing that our results matched.
416 2012-04-07 22:23:41 <[Tycho]> Hmm, something is not right. Redeeming didn't worked.
417 2012-04-07 22:24:46 <[Tycho]> Oh, it's not standard.
418 2012-04-07 22:24:57 <sipa> Mine it yourself.
419 2012-04-07 22:29:07 <[Tycho]> Checking for standard inputs just takes even more fun from our hands...
420 2012-04-07 22:40:10 <[Tycho]> Is there any example of redeeming p2sh-multisig in mainnet or testnet ?
421 2012-04-07 22:42:53 <luke-jr> there should be. :p
422 2012-04-07 22:43:29 <[Tycho]> But i'm not sure how to generate signatures for it.
423 2012-04-07 23:05:52 <luke-jr> OK, so if I have concat(A, B, C) with A and C of unknown size/content, how can I find out which part is B? :/
424 2012-04-07 23:07:51 <luke-jr> (I can control B's size/content within reason)
425 2012-04-07 23:28:27 <asoltys> I'm waiting on confirmations for some transactions that I think were sent without the appropriate transaction fee.  I don't suppose there's a way to do a new transaction with a fee on it to help speed the others along now?
426 2012-04-07 23:41:37 <[Tycho]> asoltys: are those TXes just normal ? No sub-cent outputs and less than 2 kb in size ?
427 2012-04-07 23:45:22 <asoltys> Tycho: yep I think so.  It's the three latest ones coming my way here: https://blockchain.info/address/17vXaX3obAmyWWjfYiYxZtXUfiLCuAGdaQ
428 2012-04-07 23:46:47 <[Tycho]> Hmm, I don't see those in my pool.
429 2012-04-07 23:47:58 <asoltys> Is that because they don't have fees?
430 2012-04-07 23:48:04 <[Tycho]> No.
431 2012-04-07 23:48:16 <[Tycho]> They can be mined for free.
432 2012-04-07 23:53:21 <asoltys> So I should just hang tight?  I guess it can take a day or two for free transactions to get confirmed?
433 2012-04-07 23:53:38 <[Tycho]> Usually around 30 minutes.
434 2012-04-07 23:54:01 <[Tycho]> But for some reason those TXes are not in my pool and I don't yet know why.
435 2012-04-07 23:54:43 <[Tycho]> Oh, yes, it's there.
436 2012-04-07 23:54:48 <[Tycho]> Hmm.
437 2012-04-07 23:58:27 <[Tycho]> That site is wrong, your TXes may be already confirmed.
438 2012-04-07 23:58:30 <[Tycho]> Use BBE
439 2012-04-07 23:59:36 <[Tycho]> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/982ccd57747ce42e8bc03e58b107c9cba0fe00131cef1c08e2dc0a8fc3316742