1 2012-05-23 00:50:02 <bonks> luke-jr: i have no idea what emerge bitcoinrpc means, , could you walk me through what i need to do so i can call something in python and assign any bitcoind result to a variable?
  2 2012-05-23 00:50:26 <luke-jr> bonks: emerge is how you install anything on Gentoo
  3 2012-05-23 00:50:42 <bonks> oh im on debian
  4 2012-05-23 00:50:52 <bonks> that explains why all my results said gentoo :X
  5 2012-05-23 01:00:59 <bonks> luke-jr: so what do I do with these files? https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinrpc/tree/master/jsonrpc
  6 2012-05-23 01:01:09 <luke-jr> nfc
  7 2012-05-23 01:06:54 <bonks> you worked on them :P
  8 2012-05-23 01:08:03 <luke-jr> I use Gentoo to install them.
  9 2012-05-23 01:08:14 <luke-jr> oh, and they work in the same directory as the project
 10 2012-05-23 01:08:17 <luke-jr> I think
 11 2012-05-23 01:11:06 <luke-jr> well, got a test that loads 100 blocks :p
 12 2012-05-23 01:11:24 <luke-jr> from an array of 100 {4, 0xa4a3e223}-like items
 13 2012-05-23 02:41:37 <bonks> luke-jr: i got the rpc stuff to work with jgarzik's code, it's nice and easy. thx
 14 2012-05-23 03:59:22 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: unit tests for CreateNewBlock done; no changes required for #1240 to pass ;)
 15 2012-05-23 03:59:31 <luke-jr> (the tests are part of #1246 though)
 16 2012-05-23 04:02:14 <gmaxwell> Awesome.
 17 2012-05-23 08:18:58 <diki> the qt gui is very nice, but there is just this empty space in the lower left corner
 18 2012-05-23 09:27:08 <graingert> could bitcoin be written such that if Public Key A * Public Key B  = Public Key C . A and B could both spend a transaction that was previously out to C if they both sign it ?
 19 2012-05-23 09:27:40 <sipa> what is '*' ?
 20 2012-05-23 09:27:45 <graingert> times
 21 2012-05-23 09:27:55 <sipa> you can't multiply ec points
 22 2012-05-23 09:28:00 <graingert> I thought you could
 23 2012-05-23 09:28:09 <graingert> I thought that was the cool thing about ECDSA
 24 2012-05-23 09:28:10 <sipa> you can multiply intergers with ec points
 25 2012-05-23 09:28:14 <sipa> integers
 26 2012-05-23 09:28:19 <sipa> and you can add points
 27 2012-05-23 09:28:26 <graingert> oh in that case
 28 2012-05-23 09:28:26 <sipa> but not multiply them :)
 29 2012-05-23 09:28:32 <graingert> could bitcoin be written such that if Public Key A + Public Key B  = Public Key C . A and B could both spend a transaction that was previously out to C if they both sign it ?
 30 2012-05-23 09:29:35 <sipa> from a signature sign(msg,A) and sign(msg,B), you can't create a valid signature sign(msg,A+B), afaik
 31 2012-05-23 09:29:47 <sipa> but there may be some more complex mechanism that does allow such a thing
 32 2012-05-23 09:29:59 <sipa> i think justmoon was working on something like that a few months ago
 33 2012-05-23 09:30:41 <graingert> no that's true sipa
 34 2012-05-23 09:31:09 <graingert> but could the bitcoin rules treak sign(msg,A) concat sign(msg,B) as sign(msg,A+B)
 35 2012-05-23 09:31:15 <graingert> treat*
 36 2012-05-23 09:31:26 <graingert> but only with ECDSA tx
 37 2012-05-23 09:31:29 <sipa> you know bitcoin scripts just support checking multiple signarures, no?
 38 2012-05-23 09:31:47 <graingert> true
 39 2012-05-23 10:37:01 <olp> Is bitcoind importprivkey supposed to work with privkeys derived from the new compressed format?
 40 2012-05-23 10:37:07 <sipa> yes
 41 2012-05-23 10:37:27 <olp> ok..Ill have to look at my code more closely then
 42 2012-05-23 10:39:44 <olp> But I even tested a privkey that jackjack's pywallet gave, and when I imported it gave a different address
 43 2012-05-23 10:40:26 <sipa> which version of bitcoind?
 44 2012-05-23 10:42:06 <Joric> does jackjack even supports compressed keys?
 45 2012-05-23 10:42:19 <olp> I took it from the 0.6.2 tag on github
 46 2012-05-23 10:42:32 <olp> but ok I guess his doesn't support that
 47 2012-05-23 10:42:47 <Joric> jackjack forked my pywallet at 1.1
 48 2012-05-23 10:43:07 <Joric> while i'm adding new features he's just adding more dependencies
 49 2012-05-23 10:43:32 <Joric> always use the original software!! :)
 50 2012-05-23 10:43:32 <olp> Ill look at your version's code then :)
 51 2012-05-23 10:51:41 <olp> yours is giving a privkey that starts with a "K"
 52 2012-05-23 10:52:09 <olp> but importprivkey gives error code -4
 53 2012-05-23 10:53:34 <Joric> yes compressed key starts from K
 54 2012-05-23 10:53:49 <Joric> not sure why importprivkey doesnt work
 55 2012-05-23 10:55:39 <Joric> try exporting from 0.6.2 it will show keys starting from K or something
 56 2012-05-23 10:56:45 <Joric> you may check those keys at http://brainwallet.org
 57 2012-05-23 10:57:03 <sipa> olp: importprivkey will fail if you already have the key
 58 2012-05-23 10:57:16 <olp> ya my bad
 59 2012-05-23 10:57:26 <olp> I used the wallet that already had the key
 60 2012-05-23 10:57:48 <olp> with another wallet it looks good
 61 2012-05-23 11:02:40 <drizztbsd> inroduced :P
 62 2012-05-23 11:02:45 <drizztbsd> typo!
 63 2012-05-23 13:18:31 <jgarzik> sipa BlueMatt: I'm off to Europe (Croatia & France) on Friday, through June 8, to visit family.  No chance I'll get to any new projects, so go ahead and merge CBlockStore or whatever
 64 2012-05-23 13:19:08 <jgarzik> I'll code on top of that,  I suppose
 65 2012-05-23 14:02:53 <helo> Joric: does your pywallet dump/insert transactions?
 66 2012-05-23 14:08:25 <jgarzik> sipa gmaxwell gavinandresen: splitting blkindex.dat into {blkmeta,blkhash,txhash}.dat resulted in an overall space savings, if storage remains DB_BTREE
 67 2012-05-23 14:08:38 <jgarzik> makes sense, as each database automatically tunes itself to a specific workload
 68 2012-05-23 14:08:51 <jgarzik> plus smaller keys for *hash.dat
 69 2012-05-23 14:09:31 <gavinandresen> ok.  How much savings?  Is it worth the incompatibility hassle?
 70 2012-05-23 14:14:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: there is no rush on cblockstore, is it even being considered for 0.7 at this point?
 71 2012-05-23 14:15:48 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: 10% space savings on disk, plus some minor amount of CPU usage savings
 72 2012-05-23 14:15:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: open question, on the latter...
 73 2012-05-23 14:16:30 <gavinandresen> mmm... I actually wrote and erased "10% would be borderline for worth it..."
 74 2012-05-23 14:16:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: current #blockindex branch works with upgrades -and- downgrades, FWIW
 75 2012-05-23 14:16:46 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: just have to suffer a long upgrade
 76 2012-05-23 14:18:57 <k9quaint> So glad I didn't buy facebook shares. The End.
 77 2012-05-23 14:19:11 <k9quaint> but I am sad I posted that in the wrong window
 78 2012-05-23 14:19:18 <k9quaint> (the sequel)
 79 2012-05-23 14:21:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: loadblockindex is likely faster, but I haven't measured that yet.  tx lookups should be a tiny bit faster too.
 80 2012-05-23 14:21:20 <jgarzik> fewer btree (or hash, if DB_HASH is used) internal pages
 81 2012-05-23 14:23:38 <Eliel_> are there any commented example programs using libbitcoin anywhere?
 82 2012-05-23 14:24:00 <Eliel_> the ones in the libbitcoin repo are very much not commented
 83 2012-05-23 14:24:00 <gavinandresen> I'm feeling overwhelmed by trivial and definitely non-trivial code changes, when I have a long list of high-priority TODOs that aren't getting done
 84 2012-05-23 14:25:05 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so put bitcoin on an intel-style tick-tock release schedule ;) (entirely joking)
 85 2012-05-23 14:27:44 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yeah but all that high priority stuff is boring ;p
 86 2012-05-23 14:28:31 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: wanna share that TODO?
 87 2012-05-23 14:28:48 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure:  priorities are still network stability and wallet security.
 88 2012-05-23 14:29:04 <gavinandresen> So:  BIP 10 support, and multisig wallet support in general.
 89 2012-05-23 14:29:31 <gavinandresen> Fast startup for newbies (fClientOnly mode)
 90 2012-05-23 14:29:35 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: I wish merkle pruning was on your list
 91 2012-05-23 14:29:43 <gavinandresen> Cross-platform testing
 92 2012-05-23 14:30:12 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: will merkle pruning improve wallet security or improve network stability ?
 93 2012-05-23 14:30:30 <ThomasV> sCalability
 94 2012-05-23 14:30:49 <gavinandresen> I don't care about scalability until we have much better wallet security.
 95 2012-05-23 14:30:55 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: well, I wrote 'I wish'
 96 2012-05-23 14:31:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you mentioned memory-only db last night, did that patch actually work, or?
 97 2012-05-23 14:32:17 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: I played around with in memory-logs to a few days ago, Sipa told me that would kill the chance for a recovery, which seems true.
 98 2012-05-23 14:32:40 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: my interest is in-memory-only db which never touches disk that we can use for unit testing
 99 2012-05-23 14:32:44 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: high priorities for the project in general are better testing/release practices, and figuring out whether we can continue to be a loosely organized group of interested people or if it would make sense to find funding and a business model to fund professional development
100 2012-05-23 14:33:22 <ThomasV> apply for funding at the federal reserve
101 2012-05-23 14:33:27 <BlueMatt> lul
102 2012-05-23 14:34:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: if you want great security value, make it possible to run without private keys...  RPC client says "watch these pubkeys" (with http callback) and submits fresh TXs
103 2012-05-23 14:34:25 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: then penetration of the bitcoin node does not equal loss of value, even if unencrypted
104 2012-05-23 14:34:25 <ThomasV> jgarzik: indeed :)
105 2012-05-23 14:34:43 <ThomasV> separate wallet and network
106 2012-05-23 14:34:51 <wumpus> read-only wallets
107 2012-05-23 14:34:54 <sipa> jgarzik: ok, have fun over here :)
108 2012-05-23 14:35:00 <wumpus> with multi-wallet support that should be easy
109 2012-05-23 14:35:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: _that_ is a realistic SPV mode.  that's all a merchant needs, if they are managing their own private keys
110 2012-05-23 14:35:30 <ThomasV> that's the idea behind libbitcoin, btw
111 2012-05-23 14:35:42 <sipa> when the whole IPv6/Tor support thing is done, i'll get back to append-only wallets and deterministic wallets
112 2012-05-23 14:35:48 <gavinandresen> I don't care how it is done, I just want it done.
113 2012-05-23 14:35:52 <wumpus> grat sipa :)
114 2012-05-23 14:35:54 <wumpus> +e
115 2012-05-23 14:35:57 <jgarzik> wumpus: no, not read-only wallets... you want to be able to update the wallet with new pubkeys, and want the wallet to notice new transactions associated with those pubkeys
116 2012-05-23 14:36:03 <BlueMatt> separate wallet and chain (at least) is one of the many, many goals of cblockstore in a few months
117 2012-05-23 14:36:03 <gavinandresen> Well, I do care, if the keys are on a device that hacker might get into then you lose.
118 2012-05-23 14:36:07 <jgarzik> pubkey-only wallets
119 2012-05-23 14:36:10 <jgarzik> read/write
120 2012-05-23 14:36:17 <wumpus> jgarzik: yes, that's what I mean
121 2012-05-23 14:36:24 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, watch-only wallets
122 2012-05-23 14:36:25 <wumpus> jgarzik: read-only is just the colloqial term
123 2012-05-23 14:36:31 <wumpus> that's a better name sipa
124 2012-05-23 14:36:35 <jgarzik> agree
125 2012-05-23 14:36:38 <sipa> (term stolen from armory)
126 2012-05-23 14:36:43 <ThomasV> jgarzik: deterministic wallet without the master private key, ie seedless wallet
127 2012-05-23 14:36:58 <gavinandresen> blockchain.info already allows you to have a watch-only wallet, why would we duplicate that functionality?
128 2012-05-23 14:37:32 <sipa> anyway, gtg, be back in a couple of hours
129 2012-05-23 14:37:39 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: you do not want to replicate something because it's been done elsewhere?
130 2012-05-23 14:37:48 <wumpus> well wit ha website there's always some privacy aspect
131 2012-05-23 14:37:51 <jgarzik> bitcoind is P2P, blockchain.info is SPOF
132 2012-05-23 14:37:54 <jgarzik> indeed
133 2012-05-23 14:38:06 <gavinandresen> I would much rather concentrate on core functionality that is missing
134 2012-05-23 14:38:19 <gavinandresen> ... and let other people focus on building on top of the core
135 2012-05-23 14:38:35 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: then focus on network issues; let others take care of wallet issues :)
136 2012-05-23 14:38:35 <wumpus> well, yea, if you make it possible to do it on top of the current core that's fine too
137 2012-05-23 14:38:43 <jgarzik> separation of responsibilities definitely enhances security
138 2012-05-23 14:38:52 <ThomasV> lol
139 2012-05-23 14:39:24 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: okey doke.  I still think it is all about key management.
140 2012-05-23 14:40:15 <wumpus> I guess I could add a 'watch addresses' feature without much support in the core
141 2012-05-23 14:40:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agree -- I'm saying it is useful that key management may be separated from bitcoind into a more tightly controlled external process
142 2012-05-23 14:40:37 <wumpus> then again, it'd be nice to have, not a priority... I agree
143 2012-05-23 14:41:07 <wumpus> something for 1.0 :p
144 2012-05-23 14:41:27 <gavinandresen> In any case, RPC calls for creating/partially-signing/submitting transactions aught to be done ASAP
145 2012-05-23 14:42:14 <jgarzik> a big exchange or big merchant would IMO want to code their business rules alongside key management, use certain keys at a lower security level -- shared more widely around the enterprise, but used only as temporary keys before bitcoins are transferred to a more tightly controlled set of master keys
146 2012-05-23 14:42:17 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: if bitcoind could watch an address and return its history without having to rescan the entire blockchain, then it could be used as Electrum server
147 2012-05-23 14:42:35 <jgarzik> key (or seed) management is the thing most tightly bound to a specific site, specific business, specific set of business rules
148 2012-05-23 14:43:08 <jgarzik> and as such, key management is also most likely to vary widely when it comes to solutions
149 2012-05-23 14:43:17 <wumpus> ThomasV: that would need an extensive index
150 2012-05-23 14:43:25 <ThomasV> wumpus: exactly
151 2012-05-23 14:43:43 <wumpus> which is quite the contrary of the current goal of saving memory/disk space
152 2012-05-23 14:43:48 <ThomasV> kinlo mentioned that it would be possible
153 2012-05-23 14:44:03 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: OK.  what functionality is missing from bitcoind that would let people build that stuff on top of it?  I can think of a few things...
154 2012-05-23 14:44:07 <jgarzik> thus, it seems logical that bitcoind would be used in an enterprise as (a) bastion nodes, (b) sending new TX's from merchant to network, and (c) noticing new TX's from network to merchant.
155 2012-05-23 14:44:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: (1) new RPC "submit tx"  (2) new RPC "bloom filter" a la TD, with http callback
156 2012-05-23 14:44:43 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: agreed
157 2012-05-23 14:45:05 <wumpus> right, you'd end up with a blockchain server
158 2012-05-23 14:45:09 <jgarzik> with those two RPCs, bitcoind would not need to store private keys
159 2012-05-23 14:45:13 <wumpus> you could move wallet functionality to another process
160 2012-05-23 14:45:14 <wumpus> right
161 2012-05-23 14:45:27 <gavinandresen> Not sure about using http, though; the -blocknotify=<command_to_run> might be a better way to do it
162 2012-05-23 14:45:34 <jgarzik> those two RPCs permit external key management, as flexible as you like
163 2012-05-23 14:45:41 <wumpus> yeah that's more general
164 2012-05-23 14:45:42 <gavinandresen> (<command_to_run> might trigger a http post somewhere)
165 2012-05-23 14:45:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sure, that's fine
166 2012-05-23 14:46:11 <ThomasV> no, not as flexible as I like if I cannot request an arbitrary address
167 2012-05-23 14:46:18 <wumpus> http callbacks sets up the scene for insecure practices, I'm afraid
168 2012-05-23 14:46:52 <jgarzik> wumpus: http callbacks are standard throughout the cloud world
169 2012-05-23 14:47:05 <gavinandresen> I like the bloom filter approach, maybe combined with a "Don't notify me more than once every X seconds" (plan ahead for transaction volume ramp-up)
170 2012-05-23 14:47:19 <wumpus> jgarzik: but would the callbacks need to be authenticated?
171 2012-05-23 14:47:24 <jgarzik> wumpus: paypal, ebay, pecunix, liberty reserve all use HTTP callbacks
172 2012-05-23 14:47:27 <jgarzik> amazon, google too
173 2012-05-23 14:47:35 <jgarzik> wumpus: yes of course.  usually there is a hash or other crypto auth.
174 2012-05-23 14:48:00 <jgarzik> authenticated http callbacks are standard in the payment world and the cloud world
175 2012-05-23 14:48:05 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: sure, but re-implementing all the infrastructure for client certificates/etc inside bitcoind is a pain.  I know, I did it for the https RPC, and kinda regret that now
176 2012-05-23 14:48:15 <Diapolo> cloud and secure are 2 words I wouldn't use together ^^ only a feeling
177 2012-05-23 14:48:16 <wumpus> well that paypal does something doesn't mean it's a good idea... I've encountered many sites that don't validate the callbacks good enough
178 2012-05-23 14:48:26 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: you just said separation of concerns is good security....
179 2012-05-23 14:48:52 <jgarzik> wumpus: that's not paypal's fault, if you choose not to validate their crypto signatures
180 2012-05-23 14:49:16 <wumpus> sigh, yeah
181 2012-05-23 14:49:28 <jgarzik> all payment sites' http callbacks include strong crypto auth.  whether or not you use that is your own doom ;)
182 2012-05-23 14:50:34 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: running a command is fine too :)
183 2012-05-23 14:50:44 <jgarzik> just noting standard practices...
184 2012-05-23 14:51:21 <gavinandresen> I'm just trying to not reinvent wheels, and cut down on number of lines of code we need to secure.
185 2012-05-23 14:51:33 <jgarzik> moving forward, it seems like "submit-new-tx" RPC should be low hanging fruit.  I'll look at that.
186 2012-05-23 14:52:18 <wumpus> the bloom filter idea is neat
187 2012-05-23 14:52:20 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I forgot the very highest thing on my TODO list:  testnet reset with built-in Script test cases
188 2012-05-23 14:52:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: cute idea
189 2012-05-23 14:53:14 <wumpus> Diapolo: I heard linode is very good for storing your wallet
190 2012-05-23 14:53:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: eu1.bitcoincharts.com blockchain download is full of orphan chains, and as such, is great test data.  including intentionally-created tests on the testnet chain would be useful.
191 2012-05-23 14:53:33 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: my cuter idea is a testnet node that you could -connect to that fed you edge-case-INVALID chains
192 2012-05-23 14:55:56 <Diapolo> wumpus: I dislike the concept of don't knowing where my data is and have to trust a third party company that they won't do bad things or loose my data. So I hate that buzzword cloud-computing.
193 2012-05-23 14:56:19 <jgarzik> I might actually be in TD's neck of the woods
194 2012-05-23 14:56:25 <jgarzik> one 3hr layover is in Zurich
195 2012-05-23 14:58:10 <olp> Is it possible to store the bitcoin on a smart card for more security? Like the openpgp cards?
196 2012-05-23 14:58:54 <jgarzik> olp: keys, yes, sure
197 2012-05-23 14:59:22 <olp> Just for making a transaction, you just use it to sign
198 2012-05-23 15:00:23 <wumpus> Diapolo: I also sincerely hope it's not the future, I like encrypted remote backups, but having all data only on a server instead of local worries me,  also I don't like if it's unencrypted and you have to believe in their promise not to peek
199 2012-05-23 15:03:08 <Diapolo> wumpus: for example drop-box claims to encrypt but grants administrations access and has an EULA, that in the end leaves everything "un-encrypted"
200 2012-05-23 15:03:58 <Diapolo> I read the the Amazons cloud was used to track heart-beats and blood preassure from patients and it crashed, how bad is it to rely on SUCH a thing
201 2012-05-23 15:06:13 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I was gonna hack up CDB to run in-memory only (doesnt look too hard) and throw in a bunch of unit tests using that, but...whatever
202 2012-05-23 15:07:28 <BlueMatt> (mostly because unit-tests in one place instead of 10 is cleaner, but, in the end, it doesnt matter that much)
203 2012-05-23 15:08:30 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: more unit tests is an excellent idea I support 100%
204 2012-05-23 15:11:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think luke-jr was working on doing just that?
205 2012-05-23 15:15:20 <Matt_von_Mises> Have I got this right: This script: 0x04,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x7F OP_1ADD 0x05,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x80,0x00 OP_EQUAL would leave true?
206 2012-05-23 15:26:28 <MrTiggr> OK
207 2012-05-23 15:26:38 <MrTiggr> not btc essentially
208 2012-05-23 15:26:39 <MrTiggr> but
209 2012-05-23 15:26:52 <MrTiggr> *cough* http://bbs.blackbap.org/thread-2419-1-1.html  ....  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21524022/MS12-020%E6%9C%80%E6%96%B0%E5%8F%AF%E7%94%A8POC.rar    ?? legit ??   -- hilite me
210 2012-05-23 15:27:02 <MrTiggr> helpaTiggrOut ?
211 2012-05-23 15:28:34 <Diapolo> I don't want to click, what is it ^^?
212 2012-05-23 15:29:04 <MrTiggr> proof of concept code
213 2012-05-23 15:29:09 <MrTiggr> py and rb
214 2012-05-23 15:29:12 <upb> for what
215 2012-05-23 15:29:15 <MrTiggr> do NOT click the exes
216 2012-05-23 15:29:28 <MrTiggr> its PoC for RDP exploit
217 2012-05-23 15:29:45 <MrTiggr> pwn any windoze boxxen with rdp open
218 2012-05-23 15:29:47 <upb> what does it have to do with bitcoin ?:P
219 2012-05-23 15:29:49 <MrTiggr> very ouch
220 2012-05-23 15:29:52 <MrTiggr> well
221 2012-05-23 15:30:02 <MrTiggr> if you has btc server on doxe
222 2012-05-23 15:30:07 <MrTiggr> and you admin over rdp
223 2012-05-23 15:30:13 <MrTiggr> if this is the real deal
224 2012-05-23 15:30:15 <MrTiggr> ur pwnd
225 2012-05-23 15:30:17 <upb> its probably DoS poc like the ones before
226 2012-05-23 15:30:18 <MrTiggr> boned
227 2012-05-23 15:30:20 <MrTiggr> fskcd
228 2012-05-23 15:30:24 <MrTiggr> nah
229 2012-05-23 15:30:28 <MrTiggr> i dunt think so
230 2012-05-23 15:30:34 <MrTiggr> not how i got it
231 2012-05-23 15:30:42 <MrTiggr> ive not testedit yet ho
232 2012-05-23 15:30:45 <MrTiggr> *tho
233 2012-05-23 15:30:51 <MrTiggr> so... thats y i asks
234 2012-05-23 15:31:06 <upb> heh
235 2012-05-23 15:31:22 <upb> its the same ones that were discussed on the ms12-020 channel one is by jduck
236 2012-05-23 15:31:27 <upb> so yeah theyre both just DoS
237 2012-05-23 15:31:36 <MrTiggr> noooo
238 2012-05-23 15:31:39 <MrTiggr> its not
239 2012-05-23 15:31:46 <MrTiggr> its based pon jducks
240 2012-05-23 15:31:50 <MrTiggr> *upon
241 2012-05-23 15:31:53 <MrTiggr> sry
242 2012-05-23 15:31:57 <MrTiggr> fingrfail tonite
243 2012-05-23 15:32:10 <MrTiggr> ...  i have translation coming
244 2012-05-23 15:32:30 <MrTiggr> but basically it sez "jduck fell from fame .. amost got it ryt .. here is the correction"
245 2012-05-23 15:34:07 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, I pinged him like 10 minutes ago to see what was up
246 2012-05-23 15:34:16 <MrTiggr> th BlueMatt
247 2012-05-23 15:34:19 <MrTiggr> *ty
248 2012-05-23 15:34:27 <MrTiggr> sooo fingrfail me tonite
249 2012-05-23 15:34:33 <MrTiggr> bed ithink
250 2012-05-23 15:34:43 <upb> seems more like enteromania
251 2012-05-23 15:34:52 <MrTiggr> possibly
252 2012-05-23 15:35:19 <MrTiggr> ill sandbox it tomoz, just thought it interesting to get it out there to .. other tz
253 2012-05-23 15:35:28 <MrTiggr> aaanyway
254 2012-05-23 15:35:35 <MrTiggr> checkit or not
255 2012-05-23 15:35:40 <MrTiggr> nn all!
256 2012-05-23 15:36:16 <BlueMatt> what did I do?
257 2012-05-23 15:36:42 <DogCatMouse> Are you all developers? :-)
258 2012-05-23 15:37:07 <BlueMatt> there are a log in here
259 2012-05-23 15:38:10 <DogCatMouse> One question: I am working in an open source project and we just strated to accept BTC donations. I know that places where people can spend BTC are still a bit rare so I wonder if there is a site where we could register or something.
260 2012-05-23 15:38:38 <DogCatMouse> Anyone know something like that?
261 2012-05-23 15:40:44 <BlueMatt> there is https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects
262 2012-05-23 15:41:17 <MrTiggr> DogCatMouse: post on the forums  - bitcointalk
263 2012-05-23 15:42:18 <MrTiggr> #bitcoin-otc and #bitcoin-police wud probably love to hear from u too DogCatMouse ..they practice safe btc trading .. a good rep there means abit here in btc
264 2012-05-23 15:42:29 <DogCatMouse> Cool, why haven't I found that wiki page before.... hmm thx.
265 2012-05-23 15:46:38 <Matt_von_Mises> So am I right that 0x05,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x80,0x00 would be the correct number representation for the script?: The extra zero is needed to avoid the negative sign.
266 2012-05-23 15:48:19 <RedEmerald> my TorBox workstation was able to receive a transaction with next-test without having to do anything to the torrc :)
267 2012-05-23 15:48:51 <DogCatMouse> MrTiggr: How do you mean that about otc and police?
268 2012-05-23 15:49:41 <RedEmerald> bitcoind -addnode=p2hwc26zdsrqxiix.onion -proxy=192.168.0.1:9100 (note the proxy is on the Tor Gateway with a nonstandard port)
269 2012-05-23 15:54:27 <MrTiggr> DogCatMouse: .. irc channels just like this
270 2012-05-23 15:54:48 <MrTiggr> type /join #botcoin-otc
271 2012-05-23 15:55:06 <MrTiggr> or /join #bitcoin-police
272 2012-05-23 15:55:12 <MrTiggr> *oops BITCOIN ofc
273 2012-05-23 15:55:27 <MrTiggr> go see the lovely people there :D
274 2012-05-23 15:55:32 <MrTiggr> nn!
275 2012-05-23 15:57:11 <DogCatMouse> I know what IRC channels are... :-) I just did not understand what you meant when you said "a good rep there means abit here in btc"
276 2012-05-23 15:57:33 <DogCatMouse> Why should I go there, and what should I do, and why?
277 2012-05-23 15:57:57 <Eliel_> it's a community of sorts. Reputation matters.
278 2012-05-23 15:59:28 <DogCatMouse> I don't see the point.I mean, we have a serious open source project and everyone who visits our site and uses our software will notice that.
279 2012-05-23 16:00:12 <BlueMatt> unless you are selling/trading something, I dont think having a reputation in -otc really matters much...
280 2012-05-23 16:00:25 <BlueMatt> nor -police, I havent heard anyone care about reputation there, no matter what you're doing
281 2012-05-23 16:01:26 <DogCatMouse> I get it. No, we do not trade anything. we give away our software for free and people can donate if they want to support us.
282 2012-05-23 16:04:02 <DogCatMouse> BlueMatt: Thanks for the link. I just added our site.
283 2012-05-23 16:04:44 <DogCatMouse> BlueMatt: But I am a little bit disappointed. I added us 5 minutes ago and still did not receive any donation. ;-)
284 2012-05-23 16:05:37 <BlueMatt> heh, dont expect any from that site alone (any more, if you were here a year ago, you could)
285 2012-05-23 16:09:58 <DogCatMouse> I was here a year ago :-)
286 2012-05-23 16:10:54 <BlueMatt> well, if you were accepting donations ~1.25 years ago, then
287 2012-05-23 16:11:02 <DogCatMouse> No :-)
288 2012-05-23 17:57:29 <Joric> google won that 9 string case, oracle get no compensation
289 2012-05-23 18:05:10 <Eliel_> yay!
290 2012-05-23 18:24:37 <midnightmagic> yay
291 2012-05-23 18:25:59 <upb> oracle has patented 'method and system for performing static initialization.'
292 2012-05-23 18:26:02 <upb> heh
293 2012-05-23 18:31:39 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1383 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1383>
294 2012-05-23 18:34:43 <Matt_von_Mises> 0x01,0x80 CB_SCRIPT_OP_0 OP_NUMEQUAL OP_1 OP_NUMEQUALVERIFY OP_TRUE should leave true?
295 2012-05-23 18:39:04 <TuxBlackEdo> hey can someone explain to me why i tried to send a txn and it asked me for a 0.005 fee, so i cancelled the transaction and i pressed the button again and this time it didn't ask me for a fee?
296 2012-05-23 18:39:49 <TuxBlackEdo> i kid you not
297 2012-05-23 18:40:11 <TuxBlackEdo> it asked me for a fee, so i cancelled and i pressed submit again and then it did it for free
298 2012-05-23 18:40:39 <Eliel_> my guess (based on no knowledge of code though) is that the inputs just went past the threshold past which the fee is not required.
299 2012-05-23 18:40:50 <Eliel_> it's based on the ages and sizes of the inputs afterall.
300 2012-05-23 18:40:58 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i know that
301 2012-05-23 18:40:59 <Eliel_> alternatively, maybe it chose different set of inputs
302 2012-05-23 18:41:10 <TuxBlackEdo> but i did it within 3 seconds, nothing changed
303 2012-05-23 18:41:38 <Eliel_> it only takes a split second for a counter to increase the last unit to go past a threshold
304 2012-05-23 18:42:03 <Eliel_> can someone who knows the code comment? is there randomness in the input selection?
305 2012-05-23 18:48:11 <RedEmerald> it tries to pick the "best" inputs, but knapsack problems are hard
306 2012-05-23 19:18:49 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: why?
307 2012-05-23 19:18:55 <Diablo-D3> bloom filters are easy to write
308 2012-05-23 19:36:52 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: no matter the ease of writing, there is still a cost in testing, hardening, bug finding
309 2012-05-23 19:38:53 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: I dunno, I wrote one in like 10 minutes =/
310 2012-05-23 20:04:27 <dk5> in coinbase transactions, when there is a list of recipients, is that a list of addresses that belong to the same person, or is it a list of mining pool participants?
311 2012-05-23 20:05:35 <Eliel_> dk5: it could be either. Although, I'd expect in most cases it's the list of mining pool participants.
312 2012-05-23 20:06:28 <dk5> Eliel_: Thanks. Are there any articles about this anywhere on the web? I'm having trouble finding them.
313 2012-05-23 20:06:51 <Eliel_> not that I know of. I do know of 2 pools that use this method for paying their miners.
314 2012-05-23 20:07:58 <eian> whois dk5
315 2012-05-23 20:08:04 <dk5> i see
316 2012-05-23 20:10:36 <dk5> does anyone know how blockchain.info identifies which mining pool produced which block(s)?
317 2012-05-23 20:12:28 <gmaxwell> dk5: it guesses.
318 2012-05-23 20:12:43 <gmaxwell> (though some blocks identify themselves in the coinbase)
319 2012-05-23 20:12:51 <dk5> gmaxwell: based on what though?
320 2012-05-23 20:13:18 <dk5> in the scripts?
321 2012-05-23 20:13:19 <Eliel_> dk5: ip-address is one thing
322 2012-05-23 20:13:32 <gmaxwell> dk5: they connect to lots of nodes and see which ones it comes from first.
323 2012-05-23 20:13:44 <Eliel_> also, Eligius and p2pool blocks are very easily told apart
324 2012-05-23 20:14:05 <dk5> yeah, but as far as I know, there's no easy way to connect an IP to a mining pool/Bitcoin address. Am I wrong?
325 2012-05-23 20:14:06 <Eliel_> (they're the multioutput coinbase pools)
326 2012-05-23 20:14:31 <gmaxwell> dk5: they've done the relevant homework to figure it out.
327 2012-05-23 20:14:40 <doublec> dk5: they connect to lots of nodes (including pool nodes if they know them) and look for who announces the block first
328 2012-05-23 20:14:50 <gmaxwell> doublec: welcome back from mars!
329 2012-05-23 20:14:51 <dk5> are there sources for this homework?
330 2012-05-23 20:14:55 <doublec> gmaxwell: thanks!
331 2012-05-23 20:15:05 <gmaxwell> dk5: No.
332 2012-05-23 20:15:16 <dk5> so they're guessing
333 2012-05-23 20:24:26 <Matt_von_Mises> I've just implemented the script interpreter except for OP_CHECKSIG etc. Assuming I got the integer formatting correct, it wasn't too difficult. Before I can do OP_CHECKSIG I need to sort out the transaction structures.
334 2012-05-23 20:25:22 <phantomcircuit> OP_CHECKSIG is easily 90% of the work
335 2012-05-23 20:25:26 <phantomcircuit> maybe 99%
336 2012-05-23 20:27:19 <Matt_von_Mises> Looking forward to it. :-)
337 2012-05-23 20:33:41 <Matt_von_Mises> If anyone is curious about my masterpiece: https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c
338 2012-05-23 20:34:52 <graingert> Matt_von_Mises: tldr?
339 2012-05-23 20:35:17 <graingert> I'm loving line 30
340 2012-05-23 20:35:20 <Matt_von_Mises> TLDR: (insert lots of code here)
341 2012-05-23 20:35:24 <graingert> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L30
342 2012-05-23 20:35:42 <graingert> really, you've got to be shitting me, I thought it was an interface
343 2012-05-23 20:35:52 <graingert> glad you said it was a constructor
344 2012-05-23 20:36:13 <graingert> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L59
345 2012-05-23 20:36:16 <graingert> wow
346 2012-05-23 20:36:20 <graingert> an Object Getter!
347 2012-05-23 20:36:24 <graingert> how usefull
348 2012-05-23 20:36:28 <graingert> I bet it gets objects
349 2012-05-23 20:37:29 <Matt_von_Mises> I was just trying to organise everything in a simple to understand manner.
350 2012-05-23 20:37:43 <Matt_von_Mises> Rather than a big pile of functions that you can't be bothered to look at.
351 2012-05-23 20:38:15 <Matt_von_Mises> All the other OOP-style structures follow the same format.
352 2012-05-23 20:38:30 <graingert> how about you comment stuff that isn't obvious
353 2012-05-23 20:38:36 <graingert> say what the code does at the top
354 2012-05-23 20:39:12 <Matt_von_Mises> At the top of the file? All functions/structures etc are documented in the header files.
355 2012-05-23 20:39:43 <Matt_von_Mises> In the source files comments are used for specific explanations in the code.
356 2012-05-23 20:40:40 <graingert> hmm
357 2012-05-23 20:40:58 <graingert> it's not very helpful having things like
358 2012-05-23 20:41:05 <graingert> Object Getter
359 2012-05-23 20:41:27 <graingert> it should be clear that's that is what it does
360 2012-05-23 20:41:49 <Matt_von_Mises> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.h#L99
361 2012-05-23 20:42:01 <Matt_von_Mises> The documentation is in the header files.
362 2012-05-23 20:43:09 <Matt_von_Mises> And yes the documentation is uncompleted in areas.
363 2012-05-23 20:43:38 <graingert> ok
364 2012-05-23 20:44:27 <graingert> In that case I dislike the fact I was presented bang in the middle of some code with no description of the file
365 2012-05-23 20:46:58 <Matt_von_Mises> "// SEE HEADER FILE FOR DOCUMENTATION" ?
366 2012-05-23 20:54:36 <Matt_von_Mises> There we go: https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L23
367 2012-05-23 22:02:49 <BlueMatt> uggg...fucking failing harddrive, anyone have a sata internal they wanna send me? ;)
368 2012-05-23 22:13:16 <PiZZaMaN2K> i have some dead ones =P
369 2012-05-23 22:13:51 <PiZZaMaN2K> i had like 3 drives in the course of like 4 weeks die in my drobo lol
370 2012-05-23 23:06:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: jgarzik: #1246 has in-memory CDB for CreateNewBlock tests, but no CDB-specific testing
371 2012-05-23 23:43:59 <jgarzik> finally ran into a situation where the unit tests actually helped me :)
372 2012-05-23 23:45:03 <Diablo-D3> heh
373 2012-05-23 23:45:13 <Diablo-D3> I write tests just to hammer my code
374 2012-05-23 23:45:31 <OneFixt> getting an error (windows): EXCEPTION: 11DbException
375 2012-05-23 23:45:44 <OneFixt> DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: Bad address
376 2012-05-23 23:45:56 <OneFixt> .... bitcoin-qt.exe in Runaway exception
377 2012-05-23 23:46:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont think my tests should be called tests.
378 2012-05-23 23:46:04 <Diablo-D3> they should be called bastardly fuckings.
379 2012-05-23 23:46:15 <OneFixt> is this a blockchain error? or wallet?