1 2012-05-24 01:12:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: SergioDemianLerner opened issue 1385 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1385>
  2 2012-05-24 01:30:14 <Diablo-D3> Watch Live: SpaceXs Dragon Performs Space Station Flyby In 4 Hours http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/dragon-iss-flyby/
  3 2012-05-24 01:44:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1386 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1386>
  4 2012-05-24 03:04:37 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg918457#msg918457
  5 2012-05-24 04:38:16 <da2ce7> Updated Windows Open Transactions Builds: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77301.0
  6 2012-05-24 07:11:53 <slush> Hello
  7 2012-05-24 07:12:40 <slush> I just found that I have debug.log full of "CWalletTx::GetAmounts: Unknown transaction type found, txid"
  8 2012-05-24 07:12:41 <slush> do you see it as well?
  9 2012-05-24 07:17:16 <slush> sipa: ^
 10 2012-05-24 14:18:16 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1387 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1387>
 11 2012-05-24 14:22:09 <jgarzik> sigh
 12 2012-05-24 14:22:33 <jgarzik> should the client introduce a rule:  don't relay empty blocks, if time since last block < 1 hour?
 13 2012-05-24 14:23:16 <jgarzik> there is non-trivial mining power devoted to coinbase-only blocks
 14 2012-05-24 14:23:26 <GTRsdk> Are there any plans for a big endian bitcoin?
 15 2012-05-24 14:23:40 <drizztbsd> GTRsdk: who is using big endian?
 16 2012-05-24 14:23:55 <jgarzik> GTRsdk: bitcoin is fixed at little endian.  big endian platforms need to do byteswapping.
 17 2012-05-24 14:27:11 <sipa> i've requested an account on gnu's compile farm (which includes a number of BE machines), but haven't got any response
 18 2012-05-24 14:27:56 <drizztbsd> sipa: I have a SPARC in my garage :P
 19 2012-05-24 14:28:02 <drizztbsd> SUN Ultra 2 :P
 20 2012-05-24 14:34:34 <jgarzik> sipa: you can always run qemu
 21 2012-05-24 14:35:33 <GTRsdk> sipa: would you need the newest gcc or newer than 4.0?
 22 2012-05-24 14:35:59 <drizztbsd> g++
 23 2012-05-24 14:36:45 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think a don't-relay-lazy-miner's-blocks rule is a good idea.
 24 2012-05-24 14:38:04 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: cool
 25 2012-05-24 14:41:11 <gavinandresen> miners are going to hate having to figure out whether or not they should build on an empty block....
 26 2012-05-24 14:48:23 <sipa> GTRsdk: unsure... at least building bitcoind should work on it
 27 2012-05-24 14:50:10 <gavinandresen> Embedding CScript unit tests into the testnet chain is working, but I could use more help writing more unit tests.
 28 2012-05-24 14:50:18 <gavinandresen> Nifty hack of the day:  https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/commits/tesnet_builder
 29 2012-05-24 14:50:31 <gavinandresen> ... lets me do things like:  ./bitcoind sendmisc "" '{"NOP":0.1,"0 EQUAL":0.2,"NUMEQUAL":0.3,"NUMEQUALVERIFY 1":0.4}'
 30 2012-05-24 14:50:41 <gavinandresen> ... to send to arbitrary scriptPubKeys
 31 2012-05-24 14:53:12 <drizztbsd> jgarzik: why you don't like empty blocks?
 32 2012-05-24 14:54:01 <gavinandresen> validating transactions is part of what miners are supposed to do.  If they all decided not to, then bitcoin fails.
 33 2012-05-24 14:54:40 <drizztbsd> luke-jr is racist and it don't include non-fee transactions :P
 34 2012-05-24 14:54:47 <drizztbsd> s/it/he*
 35 2012-05-24 14:56:25 <sipa> gavinandresen: cool!
 36 2012-05-24 14:58:53 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1388 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1388>
 37 2012-05-24 15:07:36 <GTRsdk> sipa: if needed, I might be able to get a Debian powerpc  available for SSH access (with a fairly modern gcc), but it would have to be reverse SSH access as I don't think incoming connections work on it.
 38 2012-05-24 15:08:59 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1389 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1389>
 39 2012-05-24 15:13:07 <jgarzik> HOWTO for building an ARM virtual machine: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/HowToQemu
 40 2012-05-24 15:13:16 <jgarzik> then run on your normal superfast x86 box of choice
 41 2012-05-24 15:15:23 <sipa> jgarzik: ARM can be both LE and BE afaik, but common hardware platforms (and I think the Linux kernel too) locks it to LE
 42 2012-05-24 15:15:37 <jgarzik> bitcoin is fixed endian.  the main task is going through the serialize code, and making READWRITE() do byteswapping on BE
 43 2012-05-24 15:15:56 <copumpkin> sipa: yeah
 44 2012-05-24 15:16:00 <sipa> yes, that's why i want a BE machine to test
 45 2012-05-24 15:16:02 <jgarzik> sipa: correct, those ARM-BE is most common, and that's what Fedora-ARM is built with
 46 2012-05-24 15:16:06 <jgarzik> s/those/but/
 47 2012-05-24 15:16:11 <sipa> BE?
 48 2012-05-24 15:16:18 <jgarzik> yes
 49 2012-05-24 15:16:32 <Diablo-D3> [01:15:23] <sipa> jgarzik: ARM can be both LE and BE afaik, but common hardware platforms (and I think the Linux kernel too) locks it to LE
 50 2012-05-24 15:16:32 <jgarzik> or you can just do qemu/sparc
 51 2012-05-24 15:16:33 <drizztbsd> arm-le is most common (android)
 52 2012-05-24 15:16:35 <Diablo-D3> its up to the OS
 53 2012-05-24 15:16:41 <Diablo-D3> you'll never see arm-be
 54 2012-05-24 15:16:50 <Diablo-D3> and most arm impls cant be booted as be
 55 2012-05-24 15:16:50 <drizztbsd> sipa: you can use gxemul
 56 2012-05-24 15:17:22 <Diablo-D3> see http://caspar.adterrasperaspera.com/cgit/libugh.git/tree/src/libugh/base/machine.h
 57 2012-05-24 15:19:01 <jgarzik> that's what we see at the kernel level.  android is definitely pushing back on the LE front in huge numbers.  you've still got a lot of BE in the super-tiny embedded space, traffic lights and such fun.
 58 2012-05-24 15:19:25 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: s/kernel/OS/
 59 2012-05-24 15:19:28 <jgarzik> all irrelevant.  if you don't like arm, pick powerpc or sparc in qemu.
 60 2012-05-24 15:19:29 <Diablo-D3> s/android/linux/
 61 2012-05-24 15:19:40 <jgarzik> easy enough to find a big endian platform to emulate on x86
 62 2012-05-24 15:19:45 <Diablo-D3> arm is the most manufactured real processor, most of them are le-only.
 63 2012-05-24 15:19:58 <Diablo-D3> infact, I think arm is phasing out be usage altogether
 64 2012-05-24 15:20:21 <Diablo-D3> mips can be either as well
 65 2012-05-24 15:20:40 <Diablo-D3> mips is the second most manufactured cpu, powerpc is the third
 66 2012-05-24 15:20:47 <Diablo-D3> powerpc CAN BE EITHER.
 67 2012-05-24 15:20:51 <Diablo-D3> lolololol
 68 2012-05-24 15:21:16 <drizztbsd> powerpc (G4) is only big endian!
 69 2012-05-24 15:21:18 <GTRsdk> my powerpc computers are all locked at BE
 70 2012-05-24 15:21:24 <Diablo-D3> GTRsdk: nope
 71 2012-05-24 15:21:33 <Diablo-D3> macs are locked to BE
 72 2012-05-24 15:21:39 <Diablo-D3> macs are a tiny fraction of ppc sales
 73 2012-05-24 15:21:46 <Diablo-D3> well, macs of that time period
 74 2012-05-24 15:21:55 <GTRsdk> Diablo-D3: which my powerpc computers are Macs
 75 2012-05-24 15:22:02 <Diablo-D3> ppc sales are almost entirely embedded hardware, especially in the automotive and military industries
 76 2012-05-24 15:22:41 <sipa> Diablo-D3: GTRsdk did say "my powerpc computers are all locked at BE", not "all powerpc computers are locked at BE"
 77 2012-05-24 15:22:53 <Diablo-D3> oh
 78 2012-05-24 15:22:58 <Diablo-D3> then thats fair if they're all macs
 79 2012-05-24 15:23:08 <Diablo-D3> btw, its rare to see powerpc that isnt be
 80 2012-05-24 15:23:13 <Diablo-D3> same with arm and mips not being le
 81 2012-05-24 15:23:16 <Diablo-D3> it exists, but its rare
 82 2012-05-24 15:24:04 <drizztbsd> mips-be is more common than mips le
 83 2012-05-24 15:24:32 <Diablo-D3> drizztbsd: not from what Ive heard
 84 2012-05-24 15:24:42 <Diablo-D3> although mips is far more flexible than arm
 85 2012-05-24 15:24:49 <Diablo-D3> theres lots of weird little mips chips out there
 86 2012-05-24 15:25:26 <jgarzik> 124 orphans and counting, in the past ~hour
 87 2012-05-24 15:25:33 <jgarzik> orphan tx's, that is
 88 2012-05-24 15:25:35 <drizztbsd> CFE version 1.0.37-102.6 [P2] for BCM96368  (32bit,SP,BE)
 89 2012-05-24 15:25:45 <drizztbsd> all the routers are using MIPS-BE :)
 90 2012-05-24 15:25:54 <drizztbsd> and the access points and the set top box
 91 2012-05-24 15:26:03 <drizztbsd> because network order is big endian (faster)
 92 2012-05-24 15:26:04 <Diablo-D3> drizztbsd: hrm, I wonder what my openwrt is
 93 2012-05-24 15:26:07 <Diablo-D3> too lazy to ssh in
 94 2012-05-24 15:28:12 <jgarzik> looks like just a few key places in serialize.h to hit, to make bitcoin fixed endian
 95 2012-05-24 15:28:27 <jgarzik> we shove all int16/32/64 through one big funnel
 96 2012-05-24 15:28:58 <sipa> there are some ugly direct memory copies in uint256 and bignum as well
 97 2012-05-24 15:29:06 <sipa> and probably in the network code too
 98 2012-05-24 15:31:04 <jgarzik> indeed
 99 2012-05-24 15:31:35 <jgarzik> but some of those are simply treating uint256 as essentially an opaque memory buffer
100 2012-05-24 15:32:00 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing wrong with that
101 2012-05-24 15:32:05 <jgarzik> it's all annoying details to be reviewed and sorted :)
102 2012-05-24 15:32:15 <Diablo-D3> if they dont read/write it, why interpret it
103 2012-05-24 17:18:59 <Joric> blockchain info app has been removed from appstore 'Apps must comply with all legal requirements in any location where they are made available to users.' bummer
104 2012-05-24 17:19:35 <Diablo-D3> no one cares about ios though
105 2012-05-24 17:19:51 <ThomasV> no one? orly?
106 2012-05-24 17:19:53 <Diablo-D3> and what does a website frontend have to do with legality?
107 2012-05-24 17:20:01 <Diablo-D3> sounds like apple just wants to sell more android phones
108 2012-05-24 17:20:14 <Joric> i own a few iphones, made 6 games
109 2012-05-24 17:20:17 <ThomasV> this will make news, I guess
110 2012-05-24 17:20:31 <Joric> had the same problem with a game with boobs
111 2012-05-24 17:20:45 <Joric> they approved it then removed it after a while
112 2012-05-24 17:20:48 <Diablo-D3> apple is not, and never has been, relevant.
113 2012-05-24 17:20:50 <ThomasV> boobs are not legal?
114 2012-05-24 17:21:08 <Joric> yeah they wrote 'no men or women in bikinis'
115 2012-05-24 17:21:10 <ThomasV> well, not in afghanistan I guess
116 2012-05-24 17:21:47 <Joric> there actually were no boobs just bikinis
117 2012-05-24 17:22:08 <weex> i wonder if bitcoin.org should drop experimental and new and just call it an Internet currency
118 2012-05-24 17:22:30 <ThomasV> an old internet currency
119 2012-05-24 17:22:46 <weex> Bitcoin is the best thing since sliced bagels.
120 2012-05-24 17:23:25 <weex> the first true Internet currency
121 2012-05-24 17:23:35 <ThomasV> the One
122 2012-05-24 17:23:59 <weex> an ark
123 2012-05-24 17:24:16 <ThomasV> the Boobs Currency
124 2012-05-24 17:25:09 <Joric> ThomasV, i've stuck a bit with ff extension seems more complicated than i though does anyone else try to write it
125 2012-05-24 17:25:22 <weex> a peer-to-peer system implementing international monetary value transfer through cryptographic, distributed message signing.
126 2012-05-24 17:25:45 <ThomasV> Joric: someone expressed interest but I don't think they've gotten very far
127 2012-05-24 17:27:01 <weex> anyway i see a lot of ELI5 posts for bitcoin on reddit...all you can say it a 5 year old is it's money and that's all they care about(all mine cares about anyway)
128 2012-05-24 17:27:09 <weex> s/it/to
129 2012-05-24 17:27:21 <sipa> eli5?
130 2012-05-24 17:27:37 <weex> explain like i'm 5
131 2012-05-24 17:27:46 <weex> sorry, reddit lingo
132 2012-05-24 17:27:47 <ThomasV> Joric: maybe if you write on the forum that you are trying to do it, more pledges will come
133 2012-05-24 17:28:23 <ThomasV> I was a bit disappointed by the total pledge (25btc)
134 2012-05-24 17:28:24 <Joric> only when i'll be at 90% or something )
135 2012-05-24 17:31:33 <Joric> facebook is the new bitcoinica! :)
136 2012-05-24 17:32:05 <ThomasV> facebook? how so?
137 2012-05-24 17:32:24 <ThomasV> because of the IPO?
138 2012-05-24 17:32:43 <Joric> yeah that case with IPO
139 2012-05-24 17:34:36 <gavinandresen> the facebook IPO was great for facebook, they didn't leave any money on the table.
140 2012-05-24 17:34:46 <Diablo-D3> no shit
141 2012-05-24 17:34:52 <Diablo-D3> he basically just fucked gs and ms
142 2012-05-24 17:34:59 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
143 2012-05-24 17:34:59 <luke-jr> ;;later tell drizztbsd you mean, I don't assist spammers
144 2012-05-24 17:35:05 <Diablo-D3> hes a sleazy fucktard that runs a shit website, but that move alone made him cool
145 2012-05-24 17:35:24 <luke-jr> jgarzik: Bitcoin is a mix of LE and BE
146 2012-05-24 17:36:40 <ThomasV> Joric: post screenshots, and I guess we'll see more pledges :)
147 2012-05-24 17:37:47 <Joric> ThomasV, there's really nothing to post yet i'm still not sure in ui
148 2012-05-24 17:38:00 <ThomasV> ok
149 2012-05-24 17:38:01 <Joric> probably it'd need full blown XUL and HTML clients for both browsers
150 2012-05-24 17:38:39 <Joric> chrome and ff ought to be really different
151 2012-05-24 18:44:04 <splatster> Any reason why calling "walletpassphrase('<password>',60)" would cause an error?
152 2012-05-24 18:44:30 <luke-jr> yes
153 2012-05-24 18:44:35 <luke-jr> known bug in old versions
154 2012-05-24 18:44:40 <luke-jr> upgrade
155 2012-05-24 18:45:01 <splatster> "version" : 60200,
156 2012-05-24 18:45:28 <splatster> That's the latest version to my understanding, no?
157 2012-05-24 18:45:51 <luke-jr> no
158 2012-05-24 18:45:56 <eian> 60001 I think
159 2012-05-24 18:46:04 <luke-jr> but pretty close
160 2012-05-24 18:46:17 <eian> oh wait, ignore me
161 2012-05-24 18:46:43 <eian> I was looking at the tcpdump of the version message
162 2012-05-24 18:46:46 <splatster> ugh, I guess I have to upgrade.
163 2012-05-24 18:46:58 <luke-jr> nah, 60200 should work
164 2012-05-24 18:46:59 <c_k> yip
165 2012-05-24 18:47:04 <splatster> Oh?
166 2012-05-24 18:47:41 <splatster> Does it not require a password if connecting via RPC?
167 2012-05-24 18:53:43 <splatster> What is the process for sending funds from an encrypted wallet via jsonrpc?
168 2012-05-24 18:53:59 <splatster> Because I'm obviously doing -something- wrong.
169 2012-05-24 18:58:14 <BlueMatt> just walletpassphrase, then regular send, should be
170 2012-05-24 19:01:44 <splatster> BlueMatt: So why am I getting an error?
171 2012-05-24 19:01:58 <BlueMatt> whats the error?
172 2012-05-24 19:02:15 <splatster> PHP Fatal error:  Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'Unable to connect to http://....
173 2012-05-24 19:02:42 <splatster> jsonRPCClient->__call('walletpassphras...', Array) is at the top of the stack trace
174 2012-05-24 19:02:57 <BlueMatt> then Id say you need to check your firewall/listening settings, if you are unable to connect
175 2012-05-24 19:03:04 <BlueMatt> can you send any rpc calls?
176 2012-05-24 19:03:08 <splatster> Yes.
177 2012-05-24 19:03:22 <BlueMatt> can you send manually via bitcoind calls?
178 2012-05-24 19:03:27 <BlueMatt> bitcoind rpc calls
179 2012-05-24 19:03:35 <luke-jr> splatster: what is your error?
180 2012-05-24 19:03:39 <splatster> getbalance works but walletpassphrase doesn't
181 2012-05-24 19:03:49 <splatster> Okay, lemme try to send via command line
182 2012-05-24 19:05:33 <splatster> Wait, do I have to escape any special chars?
183 2012-05-24 19:05:43 <BlueMatt> depends on php
184 2012-05-24 19:05:51 <Diablo-D3> and php depends on the phase of the moon
185 2012-05-24 19:05:59 <BlueMatt> ^ yep
186 2012-05-24 19:06:50 <splatster> walletpassphrase from the command line brings me to some weird prompt
187 2012-05-24 19:06:58 <BlueMatt> wtf?
188 2012-05-24 19:07:04 <BlueMatt> we dont have a cli prompt
189 2012-05-24 19:07:05 <splatster> Just has "> " on a new line and sits there.
190 2012-05-24 19:07:11 <BlueMatt> thats not bitcoin
191 2012-05-24 19:07:20 <BlueMatt> where did you download this bitcoin you are running?
192 2012-05-24 19:07:33 <splatster> lemme check
193 2012-05-24 19:07:57 <luke-jr> splatster: what is your error?
194 2012-05-24 19:08:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: scroll up
195 2012-05-24 19:08:24 <luke-jr> splatster: does your passphrase contain backslashes?
196 2012-05-24 19:08:29 <splatster> no
197 2012-05-24 19:08:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't see a full error
198 2012-05-24 19:08:51 <luke-jr> splatster: single quotes? any other odd symbol?
199 2012-05-24 19:09:00 <splatster> It does contain an apostrophe
200 2012-05-24 19:09:05 <BlueMatt> <splatster> PHP Fatal error:  Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'Unable to connect to http://....
201 2012-05-24 19:09:08 <luke-jr> there's your problem
202 2012-05-24 19:09:20 <splatster> So I DO have to escape special chars
203 2012-05-24 19:09:26 <luke-jr> $ echo foo'bar
204 2012-05-24 19:09:28 <luke-jr> >
205 2012-05-24 19:09:29 <luke-jr> depends on PHP
206 2012-05-24 19:09:53 <luke-jr> bitcoind doesn't need it escaped
207 2012-05-24 19:09:58 <luke-jr> JSON shouldn't.
208 2012-05-24 19:10:15 <luke-jr> it looks to me like PHP's URI handler might
209 2012-05-24 19:13:45 <splatster> Ugh, shit.
210 2012-05-24 19:14:08 <splatster> It seems that having the apostrophe when calling encrypt wallet messed it all up.
211 2012-05-24 19:15:04 <splatster> Can one of the devs help me sort this out in PM?
212 2012-05-24 19:15:25 <splatster> Imma have to reveal my password
213 2012-05-24 19:15:42 <BlueMatt> just remove the apostrophy from the pass?
214 2012-05-24 19:15:57 <splatster> Nope, incorrect pw
215 2012-05-24 19:17:14 <splatster> BlueMatt: PM please
216 2012-05-24 19:17:50 <BlueMatt> why cant you escape the ' with a  and change it in bash?
217 2012-05-24 19:18:02 <BlueMatt> that should always work
218 2012-05-24 19:18:58 <splatster> Because it says that that pw is incorrect
219 2012-05-24 19:19:48 <BlueMatt> use echo t omake sure you have the pass escaping correctly
220 2012-05-24 19:19:54 <BlueMatt> then try bitcoind again
221 2012-05-24 19:20:14 <splatster> Yes, it's escaping fine
222 2012-05-24 19:20:34 <BlueMatt> then your pass is incorrect
223 2012-05-24 19:21:00 <BlueMatt> try opening the wallet in bitcoin-qt?
224 2012-05-24 19:21:15 <splatster> I encrypted the wallet without escaping the apostrophe
225 2012-05-24 19:21:22 <splatster> And I think now it's totally fucked
226 2012-05-24 19:21:40 <BlueMatt> hmmm....do you have the exact command used in your .bash_history?
227 2012-05-24 19:21:43 <BlueMatt> (to encrypt)
228 2012-05-24 19:21:46 <splatster> yes
229 2012-05-24 19:22:06 <BlueMatt> try using the version you wrote there to change the pass
230 2012-05-24 19:22:14 <splatster> Yes, tried that
231 2012-05-24 19:23:30 <luke-jr> splatster: I can PM
232 2012-05-24 19:23:34 <splatster> kk
233 2012-05-24 19:31:48 <splatster> Yay!
234 2012-05-24 19:31:57 <splatster> luke-jr got everything cleared up.
235 2012-05-24 19:32:18 <nicholas74> question: "available to spend" it less than the total amount in my wallet
236 2012-05-24 19:32:21 <nicholas74> yet I have no pending or unconfirmed transactions
237 2012-05-24 19:32:28 <nicholas74> (well, two, but they are for 0.0002 btc and the difference between available to spend and actual amount is like 2.5 btc)
238 2012-05-24 19:32:38 <luke-jr> nicholas74: tried restarting Bitcoin-Qt?
239 2012-05-24 19:32:51 <nicholas74> I'm actually using MultiBit
240 2012-05-24 19:33:00 <nicholas74> but already restarted it several times
241 2012-05-24 19:33:09 <nicholas74> + waited for network sync, it's been like this for half a day now
242 2012-05-24 19:33:33 <luke-jr> ah hmm
243 2012-05-24 19:33:38 <luke-jr> I only know Bitcoin-Qt and Spesmilo, sorry
244 2012-05-24 19:36:02 <nicholas74> I'm currently also looking into Bitcoin-Qt, maybe I'll switch
245 2012-05-24 19:36:08 <nicholas74> question: I encrypted my wallet
246 2012-05-24 19:36:17 <nicholas74> but when I restart Bitcoin, I don't have to enter the passphrase again
247 2012-05-24 19:36:39 <nicholas74> how come? (and can I make it 'forget' the passphrase so it isn't stored anywhere?)
248 2012-05-24 19:37:48 <sol56> Armory FTW
249 2012-05-24 19:37:57 <nicholas74> armory, u say? :)
250 2012-05-24 19:37:58 <nicholas74> ok
251 2012-05-24 19:38:08 <nicholas74> oh hmm, I'm looking at the transaction details,
252 2012-05-24 19:38:34 <nicholas74> apparently the missing 2.5btc is 'change' that is supposed to be transferred back to me, but it isn't confirmed yet
253 2012-05-24 19:39:40 <luke-jr> O.o
254 2012-05-24 19:39:54 <luke-jr> weird, change should be available before confirming
255 2012-05-24 19:40:02 <luke-jr> imo
256 2012-05-24 19:40:02 <splatster> That ^
257 2012-05-24 19:40:39 <Eliel_> nicholas74: 0.0002 transaction needs to have a transaction fee to actually get accepted into a block.
258 2012-05-24 19:40:51 <Eliel_> did it have a fee?
259 2012-05-24 19:41:46 <nicholas74> yes
260 2012-05-24 19:41:56 <nicholas74> but now that you mention it,
261 2012-05-24 19:42:09 <nicholas74> transactions without fee, will they NOT get processed at all? or just very unlikely?
262 2012-05-24 19:42:36 <Eliel_> nicholas74: it depends, however, if one of the outputs is small enough, the transaction will always require a fee
263 2012-05-24 19:42:48 <Eliel_> some transactions will go through just fine without a feee
264 2012-05-24 19:43:08 <nicholas74> and if I'm running a bitcoin client (not a miner, just MultiBit or Bitcoin-Qt) will I be processing transactions myself as well? or does that only occur at mining nodes?
265 2012-05-24 19:43:31 <Eliel_> with multibit? no
266 2012-05-24 19:44:18 <Eliel_> with bitcoin-qt, your client will be checking the validity of every transaction you get as well as verify the blockchain. However, you won't be doing any mining unless you set that up separately.
267 2012-05-24 19:44:29 <luke-jr> nicholas74: they should eventually
268 2012-05-24 19:45:30 <nicholas74> Eliel_: ok thx, no sure, I don't care about mining, but processing transactions (thus helping the network) would be nice. But i understand multibit (which I currently use) doesn't do that
269 2012-05-24 19:45:44 <luke-jr> nicholas74: mining *is* processing transactions (in that sense)
270 2012-05-24 19:45:59 <luke-jr> the self-validation that Bitcoin-Qt does doesn't help anyone
271 2012-05-24 19:46:06 <nicholas74> oh ok
272 2012-05-24 19:46:43 <luke-jr> (though, Bitcoin-Qt *does* help the network in other ways)
273 2012-05-24 19:47:09 <nicholas74> luke-jr: how exactly?
274 2012-05-24 19:47:31 <luke-jr> nicholas74: providing a listening node for peers to connect to, and relaying blocks and transactions to others
275 2012-05-24 19:47:42 <luke-jr> nicholas74: for example, a new user needs to download the blockchain from an existing one
276 2012-05-24 19:47:51 <nicholas74> ah right
277 2012-05-24 19:47:53 <luke-jr> MultiBit doesn't have the blockchain, so it can't upload
278 2012-05-24 19:47:56 <nicholas74> and I'm providing it (along with 7 other ppl)
279 2012-05-24 19:48:15 <luke-jr> actually, Bitcoin-Qt only downloads it from the first peer :p
280 2012-05-24 19:48:26 <nicholas74> oh hehe :)
281 2012-05-24 19:48:38 <nicholas74> but ok, i see the point
282 2012-05-24 19:48:46 <nicholas74> by the way,
283 2012-05-24 19:48:53 <nicholas74> question: just tried Bitcoin-Qt (lates version) and I encrypted my wallet
284 2012-05-24 19:48:58 <nicholas74> but when I restart Bitcoin-Qt, I don't have to enter the passphrase again
285 2012-05-24 19:49:01 <nicholas74> how come? (and can I make it 'forget' the passphrase so it isn't stored anywhere?)
286 2012-05-24 19:50:05 <luke-jr> nicholas74: it only needs the passphrase to send
287 2012-05-24 19:50:15 <luke-jr> and it cannot be decrypted permanently yet
288 2012-05-24 19:50:24 <luke-jr> (though you can change it to somethign simple)
289 2012-05-24 19:51:03 <Diablo-D3> [05:48:33] <Diablo-D3> https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
290 2012-05-24 19:51:04 <Diablo-D3> [05:48:38] <Diablo-D3> see those two stories from me?
291 2012-05-24 19:51:06 <Diablo-D3> [05:48:44] <Diablo-D3> upvote those
292 2012-05-24 19:51:08 <Diablo-D3> [05:48:59] <Diablo-D3> this should get around the HN rules of basically blocking popular stories
293 2012-05-24 19:51:12 <nicholas74> luke-jr: ok thx
294 2012-05-24 20:39:31 <nicholas74> with Bitcoin-Qt, is it possible to store my wallet.dat in another location than the default %AppData%Bitcoin ?
295 2012-05-24 20:39:36 <nicholas74> (on windows)
296 2012-05-24 20:39:57 <nicholas74> more particularly, can I put it in a truecrypt container?
297 2012-05-24 20:42:41 <luke-jr> nicholas74: maybe with a symlink
298 2012-05-24 20:43:07 <luke-jr> nicholas74: also, wallet.dat may be in a volatile state without the database/ subdir while it's running
299 2012-05-24 20:43:24 <luke-jr> and the database/ subdir may contain sensitive info
300 2012-05-24 20:43:28 <luke-jr> as might other database files
301 2012-05-24 20:46:36 <nicholas74> luke-jr: hmm ok, then could I have my entire Bitcoin data dir on a custom location? (instead of %appdata%)
302 2012-05-24 20:46:49 <luke-jr> nicholas74: yes, -datadir option
303 2012-05-24 20:46:53 <nicholas74> ok cool
304 2012-05-24 20:47:40 <nicholas74> btw, would it also be safe to put my Bitcoin datadir in a Dropbox drive? (ofcourse only if my wallet is encrypted)
305 2012-05-24 20:47:51 <nicholas74> to have it automatically backed up?
306 2012-05-24 20:48:18 <luke-jr> sounds slow
307 2012-05-24 20:48:32 <luke-jr> I would use the Backup Wallet function :p
308 2012-05-24 20:48:42 <nicholas74> well the thing is
309 2012-05-24 20:48:45 <nicholas74> I have to do that manually
310 2012-05-24 20:48:59 <nicholas74> whereas when using dropbox it's done auto
311 2012-05-24 20:49:14 <nicholas74> but I now see that the blockchain data is in the datadir as well
312 2012-05-24 20:49:20 <nicholas74> I wouldn't like to dropbox that :)
313 2012-05-24 20:49:54 <nicholas74> luke-jr: btw when u said <luke-jr> and the database/ subdir may contain sensitive info
314 2012-05-24 20:50:00 <nicholas74> does that still hold even if my wallet is encrypted?
315 2012-05-24 20:50:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: dropbox shouldnt be bad, its as fast as local disk, just slow syncing
316 2012-05-24 20:50:05 <luke-jr> not sure
317 2012-05-24 20:50:35 <BlueMatt> it wont contain private keys, but it will still contain a list of pubkeys which belong to you
318 2012-05-24 20:50:45 <nicholas74> hmm ok
319 2012-05-24 20:50:57 <nicholas74> well that's not a big deal for now, but I'll keep that in mind
320 2012-05-24 20:52:43 <nicholas74> I guess there's not an option to keep the blockchain data in another dir than my wallet / logs / database stuff ?
321 2012-05-24 20:53:04 <luke-jr> nicholas74: it's part of the same database environment, for now
322 2012-05-24 20:53:06 <BlueMatt> not atm
323 2012-05-24 20:53:19 <nicholas74> i.e. one dir for 'public' stuff (that everybody can obtain from the network) and one for 'personal' stuff (with my wallet and that other sensitive data like my public addresses etc)
324 2012-05-24 20:53:28 <nicholas74> ok
325 2012-05-24 20:54:17 <jgarzik> quote:  SatoshiDice are now responsible for 122 MB of blockchain and more than 50% of transactions since Apr 18, 2012.
326 2012-05-24 20:54:20 <nicholas74> oh, and about the transaction fee.. I noticed in Bitcoin-Qt it's specified as "fee per Kb" whereas in MultiBit I just specify a fee
327 2012-05-24 20:54:28 <jgarzik> wow
328 2012-05-24 20:54:32 <nicholas74> satoshidice? SRSLY?? :)
329 2012-05-24 20:54:34 <jgarzik> we need to look into transaction pruning
330 2012-05-24 20:57:20 <freewil> whos going to start the fb group to pressure miners to increase fees on satoshidice?
331 2012-05-24 21:00:57 <luke-jr> freewil: they're paying fees
332 2012-05-24 21:01:37 <freewil> averaging 0.005/KB ?
333 2012-05-24 21:02:12 <luke-jr> dunno
334 2012-05-24 21:02:14 <freewil> i would like to see a troll create a fb group like that though mocking those gas protest groups
335 2012-05-24 21:09:27 <nicholas74> btw, is the fee supposed to be charged per KB?
336 2012-05-24 21:09:37 <nicholas74> instead of just a fixed fee for a particular transaction?
337 2012-05-24 21:10:26 <BlueMatt> the satoshi client cares about per kb, but its up to the miner what they want to charge
338 2012-05-24 21:11:16 <freewil> that is per 1024 bytes?
339 2012-05-24 21:11:22 <luke-jr> 1000 with Satoshi
340 2012-05-24 21:11:24 <luke-jr> Eligius uses 1024
341 2012-05-24 21:11:47 <freewil> good to know
342 2012-05-24 21:17:03 <RedEmerald> doing some more with next-test in a TorBox workstation.  seems to be working great so far
343 2012-05-24 21:22:45 <nicholas74> just to avoid confusion: with 'the satoshi client' u mean Bitcoin-Qt right?
344 2012-05-24 21:23:49 <freewil> nicholas74, bitcoin-qt is the gui part of the satoshi client
345 2012-05-24 21:23:59 <freewil> the satoshi client could always refer to the non-gui bitcoind part
346 2012-05-24 21:24:11 <freewil> *could also
347 2012-05-24 21:24:38 <nicholas74> ah right ok
348 2012-05-24 21:28:59 <luke-jr> nicholas74: technically, Bitcoin-Qt is wumpus's client, but it uses the core protocol implementation by Satoshi :p
349 2012-05-24 21:29:13 <luke-jr> bitcoind is the only client that truly goes back to Satoshi now
350 2012-05-24 21:29:41 <nicholas74> oh, so Bitcoin-Qt is not just bitcoind with a fancy gui on top?
351 2012-05-24 21:30:26 <luke-jr> no, bitcoind's API is not sufficient for a GUI
352 2012-05-24 21:30:32 <luke-jr> Bitcoin-Qt links to internals
353 2012-05-24 21:30:52 <luke-jr> (Spesmilo tried to be a GUI on top of bitcoind's interface)
354 2012-05-24 21:31:51 <luke-jr> FWIW, it seems that BIP16 backport doesn't actually work after all, or something
355 2012-05-24 21:32:10 <BlueMatt> is there any plan for ending the merge window on 0.7?
356 2012-05-24 21:32:29 <gmaxwell> er.. there is a lot of stuff still pending.
357 2012-05-24 21:32:53 <BlueMatt> yea, and when are pending things given up on?>
358 2012-05-24 21:33:23 <gmaxwell> "Not yet"
359 2012-05-24 21:38:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: by pending, that includes stuff that was ACK'd for 0.7 before 0.6 :P
360 2012-05-24 21:38:16 <luke-jr> including at least one crash fix
361 2012-05-24 21:38:45 <luke-jr> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 968a692ab9 P2SH VerifySignature failed
362 2012-05-24 21:38:56 <luke-jr> anyhow, ^ is supposed to be a valid active P2SH, right?
363 2012-05-24 21:45:36 <luke-jr> wait a sec
364 2012-05-24 21:45:46 <luke-jr> 968a692ab9's P2SH script is OP_FALSE
365 2012-05-24 21:53:02 <luke-jr> hmm, no. blockchain.info lies
366 2012-05-24 21:54:15 <luke-jr> OP_0 3045022100939d7023833aaffcb0dc2e6a0065316b90b7987bf3f4d99c5bc8811811782f34022064b5c3ef966e3312d615a06a3119d7599f12621bb92ac5cf1d971ef1ad9c8a6501 30440220394151fb40edd54326fa829ec571165a5e9168484293fd77e3713a35a701b43b02206b0fff8488597790e2f6d62847cde16de3234439800f019423e7bef88131186201 [ OP_2 032c6aa78662cc43a3bb0f8f850d0c45e18d0a49c61ec69db87e072c88d7a9b6e9 0353581fd2fc745d17264af8cb8cd507d82c9658962567218965e750590e41c41e
367 2012-05-24 21:54:16 <luke-jr> 024fe45dd4749347d281fd5348f56e883ee3a00903af899301ac47ba90f904854f OP_3 OP_CHECKMULTISIG ]
368 2012-05-24 21:55:08 <Diablo-D3> wat
369 2012-05-24 21:56:04 <KingKatari> I am having trouble importing a prive key for a vanity address
370 2012-05-24 21:56:13 <KingKatari> i keep getting error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error adding key to wallet"}
371 2012-05-24 22:45:44 <sipa> KingKatari: it fails if you already have the key
372 2012-05-24 23:03:56 <gmaxwell> looks like that dice site is about 130mbytes of blockchain.
373 2012-05-24 23:04:04 <gmaxwell> (now)
374 2012-05-24 23:09:37 <SomeoneWeird> wow
375 2012-05-24 23:10:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: try out my tests yet? :P
376 2012-05-24 23:14:34 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: time to prune
377 2012-05-24 23:15:19 <gmaxwell> In sipa's prior measurements pruning did very little perhaps we'll see otherwise now.
378 2012-05-24 23:15:55 <gmaxwell> It might also be a lot more effective with a change to coin selection that encouraged it to sweep up small inputs in excess of what was needed.
379 2012-05-24 23:20:33 <luke-jr> pruning can create problems with downloading blocks <.<
380 2012-05-24 23:20:41 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: that would be quite nice...
381 2012-05-24 23:20:54 <jgarzik> luke-jr: incorrect
382 2012-05-24 23:21:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: all that is needed is removal from tx index
383 2012-05-24 23:21:10 <jgarzik> luke-jr: blocks served remain intact
384 2012-05-24 23:22:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: well, removing it from the index won't save nearly as much space
385 2012-05-24 23:22:41 <luke-jr> isn't that 130 MB of the raw data, not indexing?
386 2012-05-24 23:24:45 <gmaxwell> Yes. But? the indexing is in addition to that and can be saved at least.
387 2012-05-24 23:25:30 <luke-jr> can't hurt I guess
388 2012-05-24 23:25:50 <luke-jr> I wish p2pool switched to prunable garbage outputs
389 2012-05-24 23:26:54 <sipa> jgarzik: maybe it makes sense to, before merging blockindex, switch to a new format that supports pruning at the database level at least
390 2012-05-24 23:27:24 <sipa> i.e., keep for each block an index with all its txn, in addition to its header
391 2012-05-24 23:27:50 <sipa> so there is no requirement that all transactions are stored consecutively
392 2012-05-24 23:32:09 <BlueMatt> would it not be about 2 lines of code to just remove txes from txindex if they are entirely spent while converting to #blockindex?
393 2012-05-24 23:34:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: well, #blockindex uses LoadExternalBlockFile() entirely for the upgrade
394 2012-05-24 23:34:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: great, so it would take even less code?
395 2012-05-24 23:34:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you can update that function, and then #blockindex will behave however you wish, as will -loadblock
396 2012-05-24 23:35:03 <jgarzik> just takes code in a different locale :)
397 2012-05-24 23:35:41 <BlueMatt> the code to remove txes in AcceptBlock or something it calls is required either way, so...less code ;)
398 2012-05-24 23:36:00 <BlueMatt> or, I guess ConnectBlock
399 2012-05-24 23:36:53 <jgarzik> overall, I think it is fair to ask:  what parts of the system do we care about, what parts are negatively impacted by DiceSpam?  Storing transactions in blk0001.dat does not really seem to matter, as disk space is cheap.  However, each TX index lookup must bear the burden of the accumulated weight of all transactions, ever, even spent ones behind hardcoded chain checkpoints.
400 2012-05-24 23:37:21 <jgarzik> but that is an unquantified gut feeling -- maybe we don't care?
401 2012-05-24 23:37:27 <KingKatari> I am having trouble importing a prive key for a vanity address
402 2012-05-24 23:37:28 <KingKatari> i keep getting error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error adding key to wallet"}
403 2012-05-24 23:37:35 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thats about the same feeling I get
404 2012-05-24 23:37:39 <BlueMatt> that, plus bw concerns
405 2012-05-24 23:37:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bw concerns... during IBD?
406 2012-05-24 23:38:00 <BlueMatt> yea
407 2012-05-24 23:38:10 <BlueMatt> well, the bw we have to give to others who are in IBD
408 2012-05-24 23:38:23 <BlueMatt> there, we really need to dl from multiple peers during IBD
409 2012-05-24 23:40:42 <KingKatari> How would i make my Server a node so that i can help others in IBD?
410 2012-05-24 23:43:15 <BlueMatt> make sure your ports are forwarded
411 2012-05-24 23:43:25 <BlueMatt> and run bitcoind (obv)
412 2012-05-24 23:44:18 <KingKatari> does it matter that my server is also used to run a pool?
413 2012-05-24 23:44:55 <luke-jr> KingKatari vs diki. fight!
414 2012-05-24 23:45:00 <luke-jr> <.<
415 2012-05-24 23:46:00 <KingKatari> Hahaha i'll just take his system out then he cant fight
416 2012-05-24 23:47:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bw concerns are understandable... but it seems like a really big step to start serving non-full blocks.  pruning a local tx index seems more doable.
417 2012-05-24 23:48:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im not saying serve non-full blocks, Im saying fix initial block dl to dl from multiple peers at once
418 2012-05-24 23:48:16 <BlueMatt> instead of one at a time
419 2012-05-24 23:49:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ok sure.  thought you were saying there were bandwidth concerns related specifically to tx pruning
420 2012-05-24 23:51:11 <BlueMatt> no
421 2012-05-24 23:51:40 <BlueMatt> I mean total concerns regarding huge tx volume from dicespam
422 2012-05-24 23:52:25 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: ignore the bw concerns for a minute, the dicespam inputs from users are often using up all the free txn space in blocks.
423 2012-05-24 23:52:58 <gmaxwell> So you have these low priority txns which don't need to be mined quickly (because the dice site works just fine with no confirmations) causing normal txns to be delayed.
424 2012-05-24 23:53:21 <gmaxwell> then multiply that with a few miners not processing txns at all and we end up with a system which is good for spamming, not so good for transacting.
425 2012-05-24 23:53:30 <Diablo-D3> I hate to interrupt you two fine gentlemen
426 2012-05-24 23:53:33 <KingKatari> no joke i had to wait an hour for 1 conf on a 30btc tx
427 2012-05-24 23:53:34 <Diablo-D3> but is my analysis wrong?
428 2012-05-24 23:53:42 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83332.msg920461#msg920461