1 2012-07-13 00:01:05 <jrmithdobbs> ;;seen gmaxwell
  2 2012-07-13 00:01:15 <jrmithdobbs> w/e, hate that bot
  3 2012-07-13 00:01:28 <luke-jr> ;;last --from gma
  4 2012-07-13 00:01:30 <luke-jr> ;;last --from gmaxwell
  5 2012-07-13 00:01:37 <luke-jr> hmm, it's not even here
  6 2012-07-13 00:03:11 <jrmithdobbs> oh it's stupid crazy freenode network failures, lol,nm, just saw the buffer
  7 2012-07-13 00:03:27 <luke-jr> ah
  8 2012-07-13 04:04:06 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1591 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1591>
  9 2012-07-13 04:35:00 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1592 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1592>
 10 2012-07-13 04:50:23 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1593 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1593>
 11 2012-07-13 05:05:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1594 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1594>
 12 2012-07-13 09:29:13 <Diablo-D3> today is friday the 13th
 13 2012-07-13 09:39:29 <Joric> what's that godawful electrum interface http://bitcoin.org/clients.html there's no such version available atm
 14 2012-07-13 09:40:29 <Joric> where i may download it? ecdsa doesn't link to electrum-lite gui
 15 2012-07-13 09:41:17 <Joric> oh there's a "lite gui" option
 16 2012-07-13 09:44:13 <Joric> cool it may be enabled with "-gui lite" sorry i didn't know that
 17 2012-07-13 10:14:33 <Commander710> hello
 18 2012-07-13 10:37:24 <Commander710> hello. can anyone help me with bitcoin daemon?
 19 2012-07-13 10:37:29 <t7> yes
 20 2012-07-13 10:37:57 <Commander710> ok thanks
 21 2012-07-13 10:38:36 <Commander710> i have a wallet in the .bitcoin directory. when i start bitcoin-qt it displays correct wallet balance.
 22 2012-07-13 10:39:21 <Commander710> but when starting bitcoind and typing bitcoind getbalance it displays 0,00000000 and this is not the correct balance
 23 2012-07-13 10:39:55 <Commander710> i.e. i think bitcoind is not mounting my wallet.dat correctly
 24 2012-07-13 10:40:46 <AndChat-323049> are you sure your blockchain is fully downloaded?
 25 2012-07-13 10:42:02 <kinlo> it should be, otherwise he doesn't see the balance in the -qt version
 26 2012-07-13 10:42:14 <kinlo> Commander710: you are not starting them together are you?
 27 2012-07-13 10:42:24 <kinlo> it shouldn't be possible due to locking, but you never know
 28 2012-07-13 10:43:30 <Commander710> no, i closed bitcoin-qt before and checked that process is shut down
 29 2012-07-13 10:43:45 <Commander710> so that only the daemon should be running
 30 2012-07-13 10:44:53 <Commander710> @andchat... yes, blockchain is fully loaded
 31 2012-07-13 10:50:47 <Commander710> and if blocks wouldn't be fully loaded, the qt wouldn't display correct balance don't you think?
 32 2012-07-13 10:56:59 <Commander710> ok seems that noone can help me... :(
 33 2012-07-13 11:04:40 <sipa> Commander710: neither for -qt or d, you use -datadir ?
 34 2012-07-13 11:05:04 <sipa> you can try starting bitcoin-qt with -rescan, but it would surprise me if that would help
 35 2012-07-13 11:07:20 <Commander710> so i type in console: bitcoin-qt -rescan ?
 36 2012-07-13 11:07:51 <Commander710> and what is datadir?
 37 2012-07-13 11:13:13 <sipa> Commander710: if you don't know that option, never mind
 38 2012-07-13 11:13:36 <sipa> it tells bitcoind or bitcoin-qt where the data directory (with wallet, blockchain, config) is
 39 2012-07-13 11:13:52 <Commander710> ok...
 40 2012-07-13 11:14:18 <Commander710> thanks anyway. i will try another time. byebye
 41 2012-07-13 11:32:13 <Fanquake> I have a question about Open SSL and Bitcoin.
 42 2012-07-13 11:33:58 <Fanquake> In this commit, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1394, the open ssl version in the msw build.txt was changed to 1.0.1d, however the latest version I can find is 1.0.1c  Just wondering what I'm missing here?
 43 2012-07-13 11:56:11 <jgarzik> indeed, the latest openssl is 1.0.1c
 44 2012-07-13 11:57:48 <Fanquake> Would you like a pull request to update to that?
 45 2012-07-13 11:58:05 <Fanquake> or one to change 1.0.1d back to 1.0.1b
 46 2012-07-13 12:19:18 <jgarzik> zounds.  another Bitcoinica hack.
 47 2012-07-13 12:19:33 <jgarzik> Fanquake: we should fix that, yes
 48 2012-07-13 12:19:38 <jgarzik> Fanquake: wanna create a pull req?
 49 2012-07-13 12:19:55 <Fanquake> Sure thing.
 50 2012-07-13 12:20:51 <jgarzik> some idiot was apparently using Bitcoinica as an interest bearing savings account... to the tune of $38,000
 51 2012-07-13 12:20:55 <jgarzik> lost it all
 52 2012-07-13 12:25:20 <copumpkin> jgarzik: a lot more than that
 53 2012-07-13 12:25:43 <copumpkin> 40k usd + 40k btc
 54 2012-07-13 12:25:47 <jgarzik> copumpkin: that last was one person's sad example
 55 2012-07-13 12:25:53 <copumpkin> oh, I see
 56 2012-07-13 12:25:55 <jgarzik> copumpkin: not talking about the hack itself
 57 2012-07-13 12:26:09 <copumpkin> ah, I thought you meant some idiot = the bitcoinica admins :P
 58 2012-07-13 12:27:09 <jgarzik> heh
 59 2012-07-13 12:28:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 1595 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1595>
 60 2012-07-13 12:43:02 <jgarzik> hmmm
 61 2012-07-13 12:43:08 <jgarzik> if bitcoinica's code is actually public
 62 2012-07-13 12:43:19 <jgarzik> then it can be proved, or disproved, that bitcoinica was a bucket shop
 63 2012-07-13 12:47:37 <epscy> what is a bucket shop?
 64 2012-07-13 12:48:43 <BlueMatt> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_Shop
 65 2012-07-13 12:48:44 <gmaxwell> epscy: A gambling house in the guise of a market, where people bet on multiples of stock/commodity exchange prices, but the bets are not (fully) backed by the underlying assets.
 66 2012-07-13 12:50:58 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I think we're just get into a debate over the definition, phantomcircuit was saying that it canceled long positions against shorts and then hedged on the remaing imbalance by taking positions. But since shorts stop getting more valuable for the house when they get to their call price direct cancling isn't enough, really you'd have to compare long positions against the short basis funds actually have something that could be liquidated
 67 2012-07-13 12:51:25 <gmaxwell> Phantomcircuit didn't seem to agree with my argument there, I couldn't figure out why though.
 68 2012-07-13 12:59:27 <Cubox> Hi :)
 69 2012-07-13 13:00:01 <Cubox> Is there a way to get the full hash of a merkle root / pubscriptkey without adb ?
 70 2012-07-13 13:03:43 <jgarzik> sadly, in the business as well as personal realm, bitcoin is proving that virtual currency use requires just as much DD and caution as using Real World Cash.
 71 2012-07-13 13:03:59 <jgarzik> this was obvious to some, but others insist on re-learning this lesson
 72 2012-07-13 13:05:10 <jgarzik> a bitcoin bank has to be... just as secure as a real world bank, and will be attacked from multiple sides by thieves and haters
 73 2012-07-13 13:05:20 <BlueMatt> bitcoin hacking hangout (from the berlin hackathon): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3719b18fe4993e33a60ba6e57c119892d25f7b25?authuser=0&hl=en
 74 2012-07-13 13:05:38 <jgarzik> a biz opportunity must be... checked out in depth
 75 2012-07-13 13:07:23 <jgarzik> when a breakin occurs...  secure remaining assets from further theft
 76 2012-07-13 13:08:21 <BlueMatt> I think thats what bitcoinconsultancy is trying to do ;)
 77 2012-07-13 13:09:22 <gavinandresen> I still think any business holding bitcoins for people needs to be bonded and/or insured
 78 2012-07-13 13:09:43 <gavinandresen> ^needs^aught
 79 2012-07-13 13:10:11 <gavinandresen> And I know that it is impossible to buy insurance for that right now, which should tell everybody something about the risks
 80 2012-07-13 13:10:13 <gmaxwell> I wonder if anyone has sought insurance for such a business.
 81 2012-07-13 13:10:19 <gmaxwell> Yea...
 82 2012-07-13 13:11:59 <helo> could there ever be such insurance? isn't it impossible to know when the insured party fakes a theft?
 83 2012-07-13 13:12:41 <BlueMatt> in the general case, its impossible to know when the insured party fakes theft of any insurance, but....thats called insurance fraud ;)
 84 2012-07-13 13:13:50 <jgarzik> I did a ton of research for what it takes to become a US based bitcoin exchange
 85 2012-07-13 13:14:01 <jgarzik> that required a surety bond in 40+ states
 86 2012-07-13 13:14:04 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: then ran away screaming?
 87 2012-07-13 13:14:12 <jgarzik> and the terms seems to cover virtual theft
 88 2012-07-13 13:14:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: pretty much
 89 2012-07-13 13:14:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: one background check + reaming per state, with a few states excluded
 90 2012-07-13 13:14:59 <jgarzik> I don't mind the background check, but it's the cost and time and paperwork multiplied x50
 91 2012-07-13 13:15:13 <jgarzik> + FinCEN MSB registration, makes 51
 92 2012-07-13 13:15:41 <jeremias> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3719b18fe4993e33a60ba6e57c119892d25f7b25?authuser=0&hl=en <- bitcoin hackathon remote attendance
 93 2012-07-13 13:15:42 <gavinandresen> a lot of businesses could use multisig so that they never have sole 'signature authority' over funds that they oversee, which might sidestep a lot of hacking and regulations
 94 2012-07-13 13:16:24 <steve_bobs> gavinandresen, how would that work for an exchange though?
 95 2012-07-13 13:16:47 <gavinandresen> steve_bobs: I don't think it would work for an exchange, they'll have to be a MSB
 96 2012-07-13 13:16:47 <jgarzik> multisig is definitely useful for the bitcoin side of things
 97 2012-07-13 13:17:20 <Eliel_> for a bitcoin.de style exchange, multisig sounds useful.
 98 2012-07-13 13:17:29 <jgarzik> I'm amazed -- but happy -- that CampBX is still going strong
 99 2012-07-13 13:17:36 <Eliel_> the exchange can do escrow with it
100 2012-07-13 13:18:06 <jgarzik> after talking with CampBX @ NYC, he said they were registered in Georgia.  If they get bigger, attention will force them to expand... maybe that's a good strategy
101 2012-07-13 13:18:23 <jgarzik> (Dwolla was doing biz nationally yet registered only in Iowa, for a long time, skating on thin ice IMO)
102 2012-07-13 13:18:53 <gmaxwell> Am .. I reading this thread correctly?  The bitcoin consultancy folks don't actually know who the owner of Bitcoinica? :-/ oy.
103 2012-07-13 13:19:24 <sipa> which thread?
104 2012-07-13 13:19:26 <jgarzik> CA and NY states, at a minimum, have laws akin to "if citizens from $OutState do payment biz with you, you must follow our regs, even if you are not located physically or virtually in $OurState"
105 2012-07-13 13:19:27 <epscy> gmaxwell: yes i think that is correct
106 2012-07-13 13:19:38 <Eliel_> gmaxwell: beyond fishy if true...
107 2012-07-13 13:19:42 <epscy> zhou sold it to a mystery investor some time ago
108 2012-07-13 13:19:48 <epscy> but continued running it
109 2012-07-13 13:20:06 <epscy> then went into an agreement with bitcoinconsultancy about running it
110 2012-07-13 13:20:11 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: url?
111 2012-07-13 13:20:24 <epscy> but it was always owned by this unknown person
112 2012-07-13 13:20:35 <gmaxwell> Yea, I knew the owner was non-public. I didn't know it was also unknown to the involved parties.
113 2012-07-13 13:20:43 <jgarzik> I wonder if it was sold to a triad boss
114 2012-07-13 13:20:59 <jgarzik> *reading
115 2012-07-13 13:21:32 <gmaxwell> Maybe it was sold to the mybitcoin hacker, or the first Bitcoinica hacker. :-/
116 2012-07-13 13:29:40 <doublec> what did lastpass have to do with it? Did someone guess a lastpass password that held all their other passwords or something?
117 2012-07-13 13:29:49 <OneEyed> doublec: yup
118 2012-07-13 13:30:14 <bitllc> lastpass's password was the mtgox api key
119 2012-07-13 13:30:14 <OneEyed> doublec: and "guess" is not the right word, the lastpass password was the Mt.Gox API key, written as-is in the source code as plain text
120 2012-07-13 13:30:21 <doublec> how'd they even know they used lastpass?
121 2012-07-13 13:30:23 <bitllc> that was stored in the code and exposed awhule ago
122 2012-07-13 13:30:35 <doublec> and how'd they know it was the mtgox key that was the p/word
123 2012-07-13 13:30:38 <doublec> that sounds odd
124 2012-07-13 13:30:45 <sipa> lucky guess?
125 2012-07-13 13:30:47 <bitllc> i dont believe it
126 2012-07-13 13:31:04 <bitllc> noone in their mind would use mtgox autogenerated key as their last pass's password
127 2012-07-13 13:31:07 <doublec> very lucky - wouldn't lastpass lock the account if there were too many wrong guesses
128 2012-07-13 13:31:39 <gmaxwell> I thought lastpasses non-two-factor locking was all client side.
129 2012-07-13 13:31:43 <OneEyed> Oh, doublec here == doublec on #concatenative :)
130 2012-07-13 13:31:57 <doublec> yes, hi OneEyed :)
131 2012-07-13 13:31:59 <gmaxwell> thus no two factor.
132 2012-07-13 13:32:07 <gmaxwell> er no lockout
133 2012-07-13 13:32:07 <josephcp> I think the two-factor issue is a red herring, the fact that the API key was the master key as-is is not likely at all
134 2012-07-13 13:32:59 <gmaxwell> No point in discussing it really.
135 2012-07-13 13:33:09 <OneEyed> doublec: have you noticed that bitcoin input validation method was concatenative?
136 2012-07-13 13:33:23 <doublec> OneEyed: yep
137 2012-07-13 13:33:36 <OneEyed> It was nice to see a quasi-full-fledged Forth interpreter in bitcoind
138 2012-07-13 13:34:09 <doublec> yeah. it almost gained support for callable quotations when OP_EVAL was being discussed.
139 2012-07-13 13:34:19 <OneEyed> :)
140 2012-07-13 13:34:49 <BlueMatt> TD: does bitcoinj not have p2sh support?
141 2012-07-13 13:34:56 <TD> it does not
142 2012-07-13 13:35:10 <BlueMatt> darn, well Ill have to add that then...
143 2012-07-13 13:35:59 <yellowhat-hackat> We are starting the Bitcoin Hackathon soon, everyone who is interested to join can do so at
144 2012-07-13 13:36:01 <yellowhat-hackat> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3719b18fe4993e33a60ba6e57c119892d25f7b25?authuser=0
145 2012-07-13 13:36:02 <yellowhat-hackat> we have set up beamer+loudspeaker so everyone can hear and see you. Come and join us!
146 2012-07-13 13:36:16 <TD> BlueMatt: ok, could you post a brief design doc or list of proposed changes first?
147 2012-07-13 13:36:25 <TD> BlueMatt: i'm at the hackathon yellowhat-hackat just announced
148 2012-07-13 13:36:34 <BlueMatt> TD: just saw you walk in ;)
149 2012-07-13 13:36:54 <doublec> Is the hackathon working on an ICFP competition solution using bitcoin :)
150 2012-07-13 13:36:57 <TD> cool
151 2012-07-13 13:37:11 <BlueMatt> TD: Im saying just add it to Script for now, so that I can call script.getP2SHSigOpCount()
152 2012-07-13 13:37:15 <doublec> since that started a couple of hours ago too
153 2012-07-13 13:37:18 <TD> ok
154 2012-07-13 13:37:26 <TD> BlueMatt: i will take a look at the other code you did soon-ish, but maybe next week
155 2012-07-13 13:37:41 <TD> i think myself and andreas will be aiming for 2-factor coins this weekend (probably)
156 2012-07-13 13:38:10 <BlueMatt> TD: hopefully by then Ill have all of the verification stuff done so that its the same as bitcoind (minus script execution)
157 2012-07-13 13:38:24 <BlueMatt> getting close now, then its all about unit tests for a while
158 2012-07-13 13:38:29 <TD> that'd be impressive. we have to be careful with merging it to avoid causing issues for the SPV users
159 2012-07-13 13:38:32 <TD> but yeah, very cool
160 2012-07-13 13:38:49 <BlueMatt> (most of the checking isnt enabled for SPV users, but...yea definitely)
161 2012-07-13 13:39:40 <OneEyed> yellowhat-hackat: tell me if the number of slots is limited for people looking only (I have no micro/camera)
162 2012-07-13 13:40:54 <yellowhat-hackat> i don't know what the limit on hangout is just come over
163 2012-07-13 13:41:08 <OneEyed> I'm here, all smiling with my baby face :)
164 2012-07-13 13:42:30 <BlueMatt> it used to be 10, not sure anymore...
165 2012-07-13 13:42:44 <BlueMatt> yellowhat-hackat: any chance you could get a better mic for the input audio?
166 2012-07-13 13:47:05 <yellowhat-hackat> wait a second
167 2012-07-13 13:54:27 <yellowhat-hackat> hangout sort of went down
168 2012-07-13 13:54:35 <yellowhat-hackat> i cant join anymore
169 2012-07-13 13:54:39 <TD> BlueMatt: i pulled your test fixes, thanks
170 2012-07-13 13:58:44 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: RE: MSB regulation:   http://www.businessinsider.com/california-money-transmitter-act-startups-2012-7?utm_source=alerts
171 2012-07-13 14:00:35 <jgarzik> the MemoryDealers guy had money at Bitcoinica?  I would have thought he'd be smarter than that.
172 2012-07-13 14:01:04 <sipa> and not just a bit, it seems...
173 2012-07-13 14:02:56 <helo> i guess the 17-year-old zhou wasn't as much of a genius as everyone had hoped
174 2012-07-13 14:04:15 <bitllc> what do u mean
175 2012-07-13 14:04:19 <bitllc> he made money
176 2012-07-13 14:04:32 <bitllc> intersango fucked up the last two times
177 2012-07-13 14:04:44 <Eliel_> helo: how so? Did any of the bitcoinica hacks have to do with his code being broken?
178 2012-07-13 14:05:30 <helo> i guess it may not have been his idea to use the key from his code at mtgox
179 2012-07-13 14:05:56 <Eliel_> helo: It was someone called Tihan (whoever that is, no idea)
180 2012-07-13 14:06:12 <helo> oh... well i retract my comment about zhou :)
181 2012-07-13 14:06:45 <Eliel_> does someone know who Tihan is? what's his role at Bitcoinica?
182 2012-07-13 14:06:59 <bitllc> he represents a secret investor?
183 2012-07-13 14:08:18 <freewil> not sure who Tihan has, but i wonder what his connections are to corzine
184 2012-07-13 14:08:25 <luke-jr> I know who Tihan is, but I'm not sure I am supposed to disclose.
185 2012-07-13 14:08:26 <freewil> they both seem to have an uncanny skill of making money disappear
186 2012-07-13 14:08:57 <luke-jr> or at least, & I think I do :p
187 2012-07-13 14:09:09 <Eliel_> luke-jr: then it's just a rumor, no? :D
188 2012-07-13 14:09:41 <bitllc> http://www.geekwire.com/2011/coinlab-center-bitcoin-projects-created-seattle/
189 2012-07-13 14:09:46 <bitllc> here is his picture
190 2012-07-13 14:09:52 <Eliel_> but anyway, my guess is that he's not directly related to zhou or bitcoin consultancy? Can you confirm, luke-jr ?
191 2012-07-13 14:10:07 <yellowhat-hackat> bitcoin hackathon hangout resumed you can try to rejoin
192 2012-07-13 14:10:09 <luke-jr> Eliel_: dunno
193 2012-07-13 14:10:22 <yellowhat-hackat> if you cannot come in pm me
194 2012-07-13 14:10:24 <yellowhat-hackat> 
195 2012-07-13 14:10:46 <jgarzik> I wonder if there is an Offline Wallet Storage For Dummies HOWTO anywhere?
196 2012-07-13 14:10:53 <luke-jr> yellowhat-hackat: I don't think I can come in
197 2012-07-13 14:10:54 <jgarzik> Securing Your Bitcoins For Dummies
198 2012-07-13 14:11:03 <jgarzik> collecting best practices
199 2012-07-13 14:11:05 <Eliel_> luke-jr: or in other words, I'm not actually interested in his identity as such but rather what is his relationship to Bitcoin Consultancy and Zhou
200 2012-07-13 14:11:09 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I think Armory has instructions?
201 2012-07-13 14:11:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Using Bitcoin for Dummies first
202 2012-07-13 14:12:40 <bitllc> he's using same picture evyerwhere
203 2012-07-13 14:12:42 <bitllc> http://seattle.blockshopper.com/news/story/700059522-Entrepreneur_buys_4BD_in_Queen_Anne_for_1_7M,
204 2012-07-13 14:17:09 <jgarzik> the easiest for low-tech/inexperienced users is probably a printout
205 2012-07-13 14:18:13 <BlueMatt> HD Wallets ftw
206 2012-07-13 14:19:13 <bitllc> HD wallets?
207 2012-07-13 14:19:15 <sipa> ok, call'em scalable enterprise wallets, cloud edition
208 2012-07-13 14:19:19 <sipa> bitllc: BIP 32
209 2012-07-13 14:19:28 <MC-Eeepc> what the dicks is  HD wallet
210 2012-07-13 14:19:36 <MC-Eeepc> this buzzwords are getting out of control
211 2012-07-13 14:19:40 <sipa> hierarchical deterministic wallet
212 2012-07-13 14:19:53 <bitllc> ok i got the wiki page
213 2012-07-13 14:19:56 <MC-Eeepc> wow that is no clearer
214 2012-07-13 14:19:59 <luke-jr> LOL
215 2012-07-13 14:20:09 <jgarzik> HD wallets still trade security for manageability, IMO.  It saves you from having to store a bazillion private keys, but good security implies you should split up your chains/seeds
216 2012-07-13 14:20:17 <jgarzik> which gets you right back to multiple privkeys
217 2012-07-13 14:20:31 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it's more secure than a single printed privkey IMO
218 2012-07-13 14:20:42 <jgarzik> definitely helps with scaling, if you have large numbers of keys
219 2012-07-13 14:21:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a printed seed is more secure than a printed privkey?  howso?
220 2012-07-13 14:21:23 <luke-jr> anyhow, I'm pretty sure security isn't the feature of HD wallets..
221 2012-07-13 14:21:23 <MC-Eeepc> wheres that page with all the bips
222 2012-07-13 14:21:37 <luke-jr> jgarzik: you still have infinite privkeys
223 2012-07-13 14:21:50 <luke-jr> so you don't have a single address everything is tied to
224 2012-07-13 14:22:00 <sipa> MC-Eeepc: i just google for "BIP 0032" these days
225 2012-07-13 14:22:07 <sipa> seems to work for almost all bips
226 2012-07-13 14:22:11 <MC-Eeepc> right o
227 2012-07-13 14:22:12 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP
228 2012-07-13 14:22:13 <jgarzik> luke-jr:  a seed compromise has a bigger impact
229 2012-07-13 14:22:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not bigger than if you had held everything at a single privkey
230 2012-07-13 14:22:49 <jgarzik> luke-jr: strawman -- nobody holds everything at a single privkey
231 2012-07-13 14:23:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: paper wallet users do
232 2012-07-13 14:23:18 <luke-jr> (either that, or they use an earlier form of HD wallets supported by Armory)
233 2012-07-13 14:25:40 <sipa> the current deterministic wallets supported by armory are not hierarchical
234 2012-07-13 14:26:38 <jgarzik> rofl, sponsored link:
235 2012-07-13 14:26:41 <jgarzik> Download BIP 0034 - Low Prices on British Standards.
236 2012-07-13 14:29:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 1596 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1596>
237 2012-07-13 14:35:25 <BlueMatt> no vacation for sipa?
238 2012-07-13 14:35:45 <MC-Eeepc> do i have the balls to firmware update my HDTV
239 2012-07-13 14:35:50 <BlueMatt> no
240 2012-07-13 14:36:05 <luke-jr> MC-Eeepc: what good is a HDTV otherwise?
241 2012-07-13 14:36:09 <MC-Eeepc> i think youre right
242 2012-07-13 14:36:19 <BlueMatt> Id say for a tv...if it aint broke, dont fix it
243 2012-07-13 14:36:27 <sipa> bitllc: i leave in half an hour :)
244 2012-07-13 14:36:33 <sipa> eh, BlueMatt
245 2012-07-13 14:36:34 <luke-jr> TVs are broken by design :p
246 2012-07-13 14:36:38 <BlueMatt> (unless its one of those on-line ones that were recently shown to be horribly insecure...)
247 2012-07-13 14:36:42 <MC-Eeepc> but.....there is an update available
248 2012-07-13 14:36:45 <MC-Eeepc> AVAILABLE
249 2012-07-13 14:36:52 <BlueMatt> (in any case, if you have an online tv, you shouldnt have an online tv)
250 2012-07-13 14:36:52 <luke-jr> MC-Eeepc: always install updates!
251 2012-07-13 14:37:03 <sipa> wth is an online tv?
252 2012-07-13 14:37:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, well have fun
253 2012-07-13 14:37:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: google tv built into your tv (or one of 100 other software platforms built by the tv mfg)
254 2012-07-13 14:37:29 <sipa> ah
255 2012-07-13 14:37:34 <sipa> i fail to see the point
256 2012-07-13 14:37:35 <MC-Eeepc> just a 1080 tv, no built in shit
257 2012-07-13 14:37:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: 100% agreed
258 2012-07-13 14:37:52 <MC-Eeepc> well it plays films off a sdcard apparently but w/e
259 2012-07-13 14:37:54 <bitllc> is that the transaction
260 2012-07-13 14:37:55 <bitllc> https://blockchain.info/tx-index/11978606/24f7c6836156e9d23cabde0db5dcbca3d95fde34f31673f2bce26c8c8e05ed5a
261 2012-07-13 14:37:58 <bitllc> 40000k btc
262 2012-07-13 14:38:08 <sipa> just reduce TVs to dumb-but-nice video output devices, and connect them to a computer (even a miniature one)
263 2012-07-13 14:38:18 <luke-jr> it's called a monitor
264 2012-07-13 14:38:20 <BlueMatt> MC-Eeepc: Id rather get a htpc or google tv box
265 2012-07-13 14:38:39 <MC-Eeepc> i herd the raspi runs xbmc
266 2012-07-13 14:39:11 <sipa> luke-jr: right, except maybe larger
267 2012-07-13 14:39:19 <sipa> but essentially that
268 2012-07-13 14:39:27 <luke-jr> sipa: I fail to see the point of larger without more pixels
269 2012-07-13 14:39:35 <sipa> i do
270 2012-07-13 14:40:16 <luke-jr> plus, any larger will annoy my neck as I have to look every which way to find stuff
271 2012-07-13 14:40:24 <sipa> i don't want to code on a 50" screen, and i don't want to watch a movie on a 15" laptop screen
272 2012-07-13 14:40:36 <sipa> but i like both to be 1080p
273 2012-07-13 14:40:41 <Fanquake> bitllc could it be this one http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11999735
274 2012-07-13 14:40:56 <sipa> (ok, actually, i've been watching movies on a 15" screen...)
275 2012-07-13 14:40:57 <luke-jr> I like both on my 21" (I think) monitor
276 2012-07-13 14:41:10 <MC-Eeepc> theres a chart about optimal distance to line up 1080 pixels with your eye cells
277 2012-07-13 14:41:14 <bitllc> fanquake: mine source is mtgox
278 2012-07-13 14:41:20 <MC-Eeepc> its about 8 feet for a 42" screen i think
279 2012-07-13 14:41:36 <sipa> http://hd.engadget.com/2006/12/09/1080p-charted-viewing-distance-to-screen-size/
280 2012-07-13 14:41:37 <Fanquake> bitllc fair enough
281 2012-07-13 14:41:45 <bitllc> i dont know for sure
282 2012-07-13 14:41:49 <MC-Eeepc> thats the one
283 2012-07-13 14:41:53 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: depends on how far away from the tv you are
284 2012-07-13 14:42:44 <bitllc> Fanquake: same transaction as mine
285 2012-07-13 14:43:09 <Fanquake> Yea I was just checking that.
286 2012-07-13 14:43:58 <Fanquake> bitllc https://blockchain.info/tree/11978606
287 2012-07-13 14:44:51 <bitllc> they're using a script to split money, probably gonna go to pirate and get converted to cash lol
288 2012-07-13 14:45:05 <luke-jr> "We regret to inform you that there has been another huge breach of Bitcoinica. While all passwords were changed after the theft which occurred May 11th, the password for LastPass was not compromised and thus left unchanged. The breach today occured because the password for LastPass was in fact a duplicate password which had been compromised during the hack."
289 2012-07-13 14:45:06 <luke-jr> wtf
290 2012-07-13 14:45:35 <bitllc> it's more than wtf
291 2012-07-13 14:45:41 <copumpkin> it's ???_???
292 2012-07-13 14:45:56 <MC-Eeepc> wat
293 2012-07-13 14:46:27 <Fanquake> bitcoinica source code is out as well
294 2012-07-13 14:46:35 <BlueMatt> lolololol
295 2012-07-13 14:46:49 <MC-Eeepc> link
296 2012-07-13 14:46:51 <bitllc> yea, got a copy of that.. not like i use ruby
297 2012-07-13 14:46:52 <Fanquake> http://depositfiles.com/files/2p6zvadzs
298 2012-07-13 14:47:08 <bitllc> why genjix released it?
299 2012-07-13 14:47:33 <MC-Eeepc> lnik to that statement
300 2012-07-13 14:47:41 <Fanquake> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.0
301 2012-07-13 14:48:13 <jgarzik> genjix posted a link.  it is unclear whether or not he posted the files, or the files were already leaked.
302 2012-07-13 14:48:33 <bitllc> it was his id that tar had and also git
303 2012-07-13 14:51:29 <bitllc> bitcoinica lost was 350k + 200k + 100k = about 650k so far
304 2012-07-13 14:51:48 <bitllc> one rich hacker
305 2012-07-13 14:52:19 <jgarzik> it is unclear if it is just one hacker
306 2012-07-13 14:52:24 <copumpkin> now he just needs to figure out how to sell them
307 2012-07-13 14:52:37 <bitllc> i say he's selling to pirate
308 2012-07-13 14:52:40 <luke-jr> What I'd like to know is how they withdrew USD and nobody is tracing it
309 2012-07-13 14:52:47 <epscy> satoshidice
310 2012-07-13 14:52:53 <sipa> wth is this pirate guy anyway?
311 2012-07-13 14:52:54 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ditto
312 2012-07-13 14:53:14 <jgarzik> I bet bitpay gets some of the hack money (they process for BFL)
313 2012-07-13 14:55:08 <bitllc> pirate run a bitcoin bank with about 150-200k BTC and pays 7% weekly. if he doesn't run a ponzi scheme than he most likely launders money through his ventures.
314 2012-07-13 14:55:12 <jgarzik> sipa: excluding theories about illegal schemes, one of my pet guesses is that he lends bitcoins for gambling
315 2012-07-13 14:55:14 <helo> my guess is that USD was withdrawn to direction attention away from the hacker... nobody would withdraw stolen USD to their own bank account
316 2012-07-13 14:55:50 <luke-jr> helo: either way, it should be recoverable
317 2012-07-13 14:55:54 <sipa> 7% weekly... that's quite insane
318 2012-07-13 14:56:01 <helo> yeah
319 2012-07-13 14:56:19 <MC-Eeepc> that is a monumental fuck up
320 2012-07-13 14:56:24 <MC-Eeepc> i like those guys but damn
321 2012-07-13 14:56:31 <Fanquake> isn't the fact that a 40k USD withdrawal was processed so fast also an issue? I thought it took ages to get money out of gox
322 2012-07-13 14:56:39 <helo> so 13% of the theft is recoverable :/
323 2012-07-13 14:57:00 <MC-Eeepc> what does he mean by patrick has walked away?
324 2012-07-13 14:57:03 <bitllc> what's the maximum size of mtgox usd code?
325 2012-07-13 14:57:06 <Fanquake> surely they wouldn't just send 40k out the door..
326 2012-07-13 14:58:35 <bitllc> i think they took mtgox code for 40k
327 2012-07-13 14:58:52 <bitllc> but then the funds would be still in mtgox
328 2012-07-13 15:44:38 <BlueMatt> heh GetOp2 in script.h first checks (pc >= end()) then the next statement checks (end() - pc < 1)
329 2012-07-13 15:44:50 <BlueMatt> its redundantly redundant
330 2012-07-13 16:09:57 <jgarzik> BitInstant got burned by Bitcoinica?  Really?
331 2012-07-13 16:20:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: maaku opened pull request 1597 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1597>
332 2012-07-13 16:27:04 <MC-Eeepc> shit has really hit the fan now
333 2012-07-13 16:28:14 <MC-Eeepc> i feel sorry for those guys, they have a tandup track record in the community until they got embroiled with bitcoinica
334 2012-07-13 16:32:09 <MC-Eeepc> i hope this doesnt affect intersango......
335 2012-07-13 16:32:31 <MC-Eeepc> surely that was insulated from the bitcoinica deal
336 2012-07-13 18:18:46 <[Tycho]> Bitcoinica is "hacked" again ?! You gotta be kidding...
337 2012-07-13 18:21:12 <upb> lol
338 2012-07-13 18:22:47 <JFK911> hacked by chinese
339 2012-07-13 18:35:54 <helo> hacking a dead bitcoin service is much more productive than beating a dead horse
340 2012-07-13 18:43:36 <helo> will hd wallet support make it safe to use the same wallet on multiple machines at the same time?
341 2012-07-13 18:44:05 <cardpuncher> Could someone reword "Be careful not to read more into the signature than what is in the signed message itself, to avoid being tricked by a man-in-the-middle attack.", or explain the "Be careful not to read more into the signature than" part?
342 2012-07-13 18:54:40 <[Tycho]> cardpuncher: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92576.0
343 2012-07-13 18:58:37 <cardpuncher> Thanks [Tycho]. So "be careful not to read more into the signature" means "be careful not to deduce more from the signature than what's strictly written in the message". Is that correct?
344 2012-07-13 19:00:08 <[Tycho]> Yes.
345 2012-07-13 19:00:26 <[Tycho]> Looks like it doesn't means something related to cryptography itself.
346 2012-07-13 19:00:41 <cardpuncher> Thanks again, as it's about security I wanted to make sure that I didn't put anything stupid in the translation.
347 2012-07-13 19:01:41 <cardpuncher> Yet another question: does "own address" mean "/your/ own address"? I miss the context on this one.
348 2012-07-13 19:02:21 <[Tycho]> Where ?
349 2012-07-13 19:02:28 <CodesInChaos> owning an addres means that you know the associated private key
350 2012-07-13 19:05:31 <cardpuncher> Heh, I took a look at the latest version from git but I just couldn't find where that "own address" appears. I see it on Transifex, the string to translate is just "own address".
351 2012-07-13 19:30:58 <mcorlett> /deop jgarzik
352 2012-07-13 19:39:26 <Karmaon> Is it required for you to post a getwork request on a long poll url?
353 2012-07-13 19:47:54 <jgarzik> mcorlett: problems?
354 2012-07-13 19:48:22 <forrestv> Karmaon, the original spec said to use a plain get, but most people post a normal request..
355 2012-07-13 19:49:16 <Karmaon> so much for specifications.
356 2012-07-13 19:49:55 <Karmaon> yeah, deepbit spec confirms only a get + auth
357 2012-07-13 19:52:44 <forrestv> Karmaon, i'd recommend doing the post :p it's cleaner, imo.. and supported everywhere out of necessity
358 2012-07-13 20:03:23 <amiller> hey does anyone know if you can achieve provably partial-collision-resistant hash functions in the standard model?
359 2012-07-13 20:03:32 <amiller> i know that collision-resistant hash functions exist
360 2012-07-13 20:03:54 <amiller> also pseudorandom permutations exist, and i think if you compose a cr hash with a prp you get a partial collision resistant hash but i'm not sure
361 2012-07-13 23:09:21 <upb> so.... do you remember this thread http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/w6xen/bitcoinica_press_release/
362 2012-07-13 23:09:36 <upb> following the instructions, we get this
363 2012-07-13 23:10:02 <upb> ca439dca98bf043fa486eaf6dcf4a258 *bitcoinica.leaked.tar.bz2
364 2012-07-13 23:10:07 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if talking about bitcoinica should be a bannable offense
365 2012-07-13 23:10:19 <Diablo-D3> Im tired about hearing about those scammers
366 2012-07-13 23:10:19 <upb> tar tvjf bitcoinica.leaked.tar.bz2|head -5 genjix/genjix     0 2012-07-07 22:18 bitcoinica_legacy/ genjix/genjix  1124 2012-07-07 22:14 bitcoinica_legacy/Gemfile
367 2012-07-13 23:10:21 <Diablo-D3> they stole the money
368 2012-07-13 23:10:22 <upb> ?:P
369 2012-07-13 23:10:24 <Diablo-D3> no one stopped them
370 2012-07-13 23:10:31 <Diablo-D3> so stop talking about it
371 2012-07-13 23:10:35 <upb> why
372 2012-07-13 23:10:48 <Diablo-D3> why? BECAUSE ITS NOT REAL
373 2012-07-13 23:10:53 <upb> the point i'm making is
374 2012-07-13 23:10:54 <Diablo-D3> they were never hacked
375 2012-07-13 23:10:56 <upb> that this 'leak'
376 2012-07-13 23:11:01 <upb> is leaked by username genjix
377 2012-07-13 23:11:05 <Diablo-D3> there was no hack, there was no leak, there was no stolen money