1 2012-09-28 07:49:27 <MC-Eeepc> demurrage i grate
2 2012-09-28 07:49:30 <MC-Eeepc> OCCUPY BITCOIN
3 2012-09-28 08:06:01 <denisx> I think that the macosx version of bitcoin still has the 100% problem
4 2012-09-28 08:07:23 <denisx> at least while updating the blockchain
5 2012-09-28 08:55:30 <sipa> denisx: if it's using 100% cpu during block download (after the last checkpoint, 193000), you're lucky
6 2012-09-28 08:55:42 <sipa> it means the bottleneck is signature verification and not disk indexing
7 2012-09-28 08:56:28 <denisx> sipa: hmm, Iam not sure
8 2012-09-28 08:56:42 <denisx> how much cpu does say 100 new blocks use?
9 2012-09-28 08:57:15 <sipa> you should be seeinga few blocks per second
10 2012-09-28 08:57:46 <denisx> sipa: my bitcoind updated ca. one week of new blocks and needed 30min of 100% cpu time
11 2012-09-28 08:58:04 <sipa> what cpu?
12 2012-09-28 08:58:09 <denisx> core i7
13 2012-09-28 08:58:26 <sipa> that sounds slow
14 2012-09-28 08:58:34 <denisx> sipa: thats my point! ;)
15 2012-09-28 08:58:52 <sipa> yes, looks like there's something wrong still
16 2012-09-28 08:59:06 <sipa> but i haven't benchmarked non-ultraprune bitcoind for some time
17 2012-09-28 09:00:27 <denisx> I stopped my bitcoind now, I will start it later and take note how long it needs for how many blocks...
18 2012-09-28 09:03:06 <sipa> i have seen reports of accumulating cpu usage that gets solved with a restart
19 2012-09-28 09:03:13 <sipa> but i haven't experienced that myself
20 2012-09-28 09:21:25 <MC-Eeepc> 70 gigaflops per watt
21 2012-09-28 09:21:28 <MC-Eeepc> is that good
22 2012-09-28 09:24:20 <sipa> no idea... but you know flops are entirely meaningless for bitcoin?
23 2012-09-28 09:33:49 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, i have a commit that moves block import to a separate thread in ultraprune
24 2012-09-28 09:34:02 <sipa> how do you think it should interact with the bootstrap.dat thing?
25 2012-09-28 09:34:25 <sipa> i'd say that bootstrap should be done as the last thing in that thread?
26 2012-09-28 10:22:47 <sipa> does someone know whether any of the BSDs have fdatasync?
27 2012-09-28 10:32:35 <_dr> openbsd just has fsync
28 2012-09-28 10:35:03 <sipa> _dr: feel free to suggest a change for #1879
29 2012-09-28 10:56:26 <jgarzik> sipa: netbsd has fdatasync
30 2012-09-28 10:57:10 <jgarzik> sipa: yes, bootstrap.dat should be last... though looking through the code, it seemed like we should do block import before loading the wallet
31 2012-09-28 11:11:47 <jgarzik> sipa: googling seems to indicate openbsd and freebsd do not
32 2012-09-28 11:23:54 <sipa> ACTION should stop reading those foundation threads on the forum
33 2012-09-28 11:25:40 <Luke-Jr> trolls take over already?
34 2012-09-28 11:26:11 <kjj_> they took over like 5 minutes after Gavin posted
35 2012-09-28 11:26:19 <Luke-Jr> lol figures
36 2012-09-28 11:27:17 <kjj_> the sad part is that I don't think they are trolls. I think they just really are that stupid
37 2012-09-28 11:27:20 <gmaxwell> There is a bit of a selection bias there; non-paranoids won't have much to say about it??? "Interesting. Lets see how this goes." :-)
38 2012-09-28 11:27:28 <gavinandresen> invent a troll-free means of communication and you'll be rich.
39 2012-09-28 11:27:36 <jgarzik> hehehe
40 2012-09-28 11:28:04 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Prerequisite: A device to allow stabbing people in the face over the Internet.
41 2012-09-28 11:28:10 <kjj_> the latest is that registering it in DC is sinister
42 2012-09-28 11:28:17 <Luke-Jr> lol XD
43 2012-09-28 11:28:21 <jgarzik> well it is a community with a sizable contingent of anti-US crypto-anarchists
44 2012-09-28 11:28:28 <jgarzik> thus "US" + "organization" == evil
45 2012-09-28 11:28:31 <gavinandresen> I'm a member of Amherst Town Meeting, and even that hundreds-of-years-old form of communication has its own breed of trolls.
46 2012-09-28 11:28:34 <jgarzik> no logical goes further
47 2012-09-28 11:28:40 <jgarzik> *logic
48 2012-09-28 11:28:50 <sipa> jgarzik: i read that as "sizable continent"
49 2012-09-28 11:29:00 <kjj_> heh. my county board has been hosting town hall meetings about the budget, and that was full of trolls too
50 2012-09-28 11:29:08 <jgarzik> if they were all on one continent, they would be easier to ignore
51 2012-09-28 11:29:09 <gmaxwell> kjj_: I should combine the octets of the IP with some random operators and make it equal 666 and post that. :P
52 2012-09-28 11:29:10 <jgarzik> ACTION runs
53 2012-09-28 11:29:52 <gavinandresen> I'm trying to figure out what I could post that would distract them....
54 2012-09-28 11:29:58 <jgarzik> ACTION rofl'd at someone, claiming to be an SA goon/troll, saying SA thought this would be a good idea
55 2012-09-28 11:29:59 <kjj_> the octets of www sum to 556. you only need to find 110 more and you are set
56 2012-09-28 11:30:03 <gavinandresen> Maybe I should announce I'm giving a talk at the NSA next month.
57 2012-09-28 11:30:07 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: :)
58 2012-09-28 11:30:28 <gavinandresen> (then followup and say it was "cancelled")
59 2012-09-28 11:30:39 <kjj_> NSA? bah. How about giving a talk to the local Masons group?
60 2012-09-28 11:30:46 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: 'traveling to utah to speak at the opening of a new datacenter; unfortunately it's confidential so I can't share details"
61 2012-09-28 11:30:54 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: lol
62 2012-09-28 11:31:03 <Luke-Jr> LOL
63 2012-09-28 11:31:21 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hey, maybe that same selection bias will keep the anarchy-nuts from joining? ;)
64 2012-09-28 11:31:29 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: most likely
65 2012-09-28 11:31:34 <kjj_> hey Gavin, how's your PM queue? hundreds or thousands?
66 2012-09-28 11:31:48 <gavinandresen> not as long as you'd think, actually.
67 2012-09-28 11:32:13 <gmaxwell> kjj_: hah. Like anyone talking cares enough about facts to ask many questions?
68 2012-09-28 11:32:14 <gavinandresen> kjj_: thanks for the constructive suggestions, by the way.
69 2012-09-28 11:32:26 <kjj_> oh, right. I keep forgetting that the hundreds of posts in the threads are coming from like 3 dudes
70 2012-09-28 11:32:43 <kjj_> gavinandresen: the term overlap part is the big one
71 2012-09-28 11:32:54 <gavinandresen> I think my new forum-efficiency policy will be "If your ignore has even a touch of yellow, you go on my ignore list"
72 2012-09-28 11:33:08 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: There were random bilaws questions on IRC; when I looked I couldn't find the bilaws on the site.
73 2012-09-28 11:33:31 <jgarzik> yeah, the bylaws link was posted in here, but not on forum, IIRC
74 2012-09-28 11:33:34 <kjj_> I need to talk to Theymos, see if we can get a hard-ignore option that also cuts replies to that person, and doesn't even show as ignored
75 2012-09-28 11:33:35 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: https://github.com/engagestrategy/btc-foundation
76 2012-09-28 11:33:52 <gavinandresen> oops, wait, no wrong repo....
77 2012-09-28 11:33:54 <jgarzik> kjj_: theymos is very anti-censorship
78 2012-09-28 11:34:07 <Luke-Jr> yellow?
79 2012-09-28 11:34:16 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo
80 2012-09-28 11:34:27 <jgarzik> kjj_: VERY
81 2012-09-28 11:34:32 <gavinandresen> yellow ignore on the forums means a bunch of people are ignoring you
82 2012-09-28 11:34:43 <jgarzik> kjj_: he refuses to delete blatant scams etc.
83 2012-09-28 11:34:57 <gavinandresen> ... I think I'll outsource the "is this person worth listening to" to The Crowd...
84 2012-09-28 11:35:38 <kjj_> jgarzik: it would still be opt-in and personal. it would just increase the level of ignore-ness on a person
85 2012-09-28 11:35:43 <gavinandresen> "If you would like to see a modification or change made to The Bitcoin Foundation's bylaws please submit a pull request to this repo. "
86 2012-09-28 11:36:29 <jgarzik> kjj_: My solution, a partial one admittedly, was to permit thread creators to moderate their thread as they choose. Give them the ability to hide posts or ban trolls.
87 2012-09-28 11:36:44 <jgarzik> (I like hiding-by-default rather than banning, but maybe I am a softie)
88 2012-09-28 11:37:14 <jgarzik> seems doable within current framework, which already gives special privs to thread creators to e.g. lock the thread
89 2012-09-28 11:37:14 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: that would help
90 2012-09-28 11:37:17 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: encourages making redundant threads just because of disagreement about moderation though. No free lunches.
91 2012-09-28 11:37:33 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: true, but existing moderators already handle that
92 2012-09-28 11:37:41 <gmaxwell> Also hides important criticism "hey, this thing is a scam"
93 2012-09-28 11:37:58 <gmaxwell> (but generally I agree)
94 2012-09-28 11:38:19 <kjj_> I get a 404 when I try to fork the legal repo
95 2012-09-28 11:39:00 <sipa> kjj_: oh, that's just the CIA
96 2012-09-28 11:39:11 <kjj_> bah. why do I have to allow akami to run javascript in my browser to use github. that pisses me off
97 2012-09-28 11:48:34 <kjj_> gavinandresen: have there been any meetings and resolutions yet?
98 2012-09-28 11:50:22 <gavinandresen> You mean for the Foundation? Sure, we met in person in Seattle for two days to nail down the initial bylaws and plan the launch, and have weekly Skype meetings
99 2012-09-28 11:50:48 <kjj_> but no resolutions since the bylaws were approved?
100 2012-09-28 11:51:02 <kjj_> I ask because the terms information on the website doesn't seem to match the bylaws that I'm reading
101 2012-09-28 11:51:42 <gavinandresen> I guess you could file an issue against the bylaws repo....
102 2012-09-28 11:52:07 <gavinandresen> what doesn't match?
103 2012-09-28 11:52:33 <kjj_> https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/governance
104 2012-09-28 11:52:38 <kjj_> says the first term ends July 31, 2014
105 2012-09-28 11:53:22 <edcba> resolution 1 : take over the world
106 2012-09-28 11:53:31 <edcba> should suffice for now
107 2012-09-28 11:53:39 <kjj_> the word July only appears in the bylaws twice, both as the effective date of the bylaws. 5.3(e) says the terms go Jan 1 to Dec 31 of the second calendar year after election
108 2012-09-28 11:54:20 <kjj_> that sentence is terrible too. it suggests that we need to have elections now for the people taking office Jan 1, 2014
109 2012-09-28 11:55:03 <gavinandresen> kjj_: send email to Patrick, he's the legal codemeister
110 2012-09-28 11:56:02 <kjj_> I've gotta run to a meeting. I'll go over them again later.
111 2012-09-28 11:56:42 <kjj_> I had some real sharp guys go over some bylaws for me not long ago. maybe I'll see if I can talk some of them into looking at these too
112 2012-09-28 11:57:29 <kjj_> adversarial contract negotiation seems to be REALLY good practice for reading these sorts of things
113 2012-09-28 11:58:01 <gavinandresen> okey doke. I try to get involved with legal details as little as possible.
114 2012-09-28 12:14:34 <kinlo> hmmmz
115 2012-09-28 12:14:39 <kinlo> now that CIA gone is
116 2012-09-28 12:15:16 <kinlo> any plans on a replacement?
117 2012-09-28 12:15:39 <kinlo> it's kinda useless to join #bitcoin-commits right now
118 2012-09-28 12:16:47 <Diablo-D3> kinlo: nenolod is trying to restore cia
119 2012-09-28 12:17:10 <kinlo> I was under the impression that all data was lost beyond recovery?
120 2012-09-28 12:17:23 <Diablo-D3> not sure
121 2012-09-28 12:17:37 <Diablo-D3> the same admin fuckup also nuked atheme.org, and thats slowly being restored as well
122 2012-09-28 12:18:41 <kinlo> I was under the impression that while there are backups of the code base, that the database itselves is permanently lost due to not having any backups
123 2012-09-28 12:18:58 <kinlo> so if that is correct, we will need to reregister in any case
124 2012-09-28 12:20:16 <Diablo-D3> well, wait until nenolod gets all that shit up again
125 2012-09-28 12:20:21 <Diablo-D3> you know whats ironic?
126 2012-09-28 12:20:25 <Diablo-D3> cia was hosted by his company
127 2012-09-28 12:20:33 <Diablo-D3> then he sold his company to a bigger company
128 2012-09-28 12:20:46 <Diablo-D3> then the bigger company decided to just fuck everybody everywhere forever
129 2012-09-28 12:21:18 <Diablo-D3> thanks enzu, inc.
130 2012-09-28 12:21:22 <Diablo-D3> thanks alot.
131 2012-09-28 12:31:11 <kinlo> btw, esr was working on a replacement for cia
132 2012-09-28 12:31:41 <Diablo-D3> hes doing it wrong
133 2012-09-28 12:31:47 <Diablo-D3> what we need is a redundant message transport
134 2012-09-28 12:33:02 <kinlo> I didn't look into the details of esr's implementation
135 2012-09-28 12:33:33 <kinlo> but after reading the cia website, it's clear something must be done, I don't believe that it will be returning, at least not the database
136 2012-09-28 12:38:18 <arij> best linux distro go
137 2012-09-28 12:38:24 <arij> gogoogo
138 2012-09-28 12:39:07 <kinlo> arij: ?
139 2012-09-28 12:45:50 <helo> motoblur!
140 2012-09-28 12:46:08 <copumpkin> rotoblur!
141 2012-09-28 13:00:36 <kjj_> gavinandresen: I tried for a long time to avoid political and legal crap too. It didn't work, they got me in the end, now I spend half my time on that crap
142 2012-09-28 13:05:38 <kreal> question
143 2012-09-28 13:05:50 <kreal> I have two transactions with the same txid, is this possible ?
144 2012-09-28 13:06:13 <sipa> no, but you can have one transaction that affects you two times
145 2012-09-28 13:06:20 <sipa> so it may be listed twice
146 2012-09-28 13:06:35 <kreal> it is to two difference addresses.
147 2012-09-28 13:06:54 <sipa> doesn't change a thing :)
148 2012-09-28 13:07:19 <kreal> hmmm
149 2012-09-28 13:07:24 <sipa> BlueMatt: reason i asked for testing branches as is instead of merging, is that i'm more interested in whether the pull request is sane than whether it's currently up to date
150 2012-09-28 13:07:35 <kreal> ok I see.
151 2012-09-28 13:09:48 <sipa> kreal: regarding your PM: looks exactly like what I mean
152 2012-09-28 13:09:53 <kreal> ok
153 2012-09-28 13:09:56 <kreal> perfect thanks.
154 2012-09-28 13:09:59 <sipa> it's a transaction with multiple outputs
155 2012-09-28 13:10:06 <sipa> and two of them are to addresses of yours
156 2012-09-28 13:10:35 <kreal> off to fix walletbit... apparently I did not take this in regards for my latest code update.
157 2012-09-28 13:13:37 <kreal> fixed.
158 2012-09-28 13:13:42 <kreal> thanks sipa.
159 2012-09-28 13:14:10 <kreal> most have been off my game hehe
160 2012-09-28 13:17:39 <Eliel> here's a suggestion. Any thoughts? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1882
161 2012-09-28 13:23:17 <kjj_> ha! I just noticed that some lucky bastard is doing the initial block download from one of my p2pool nodes that runs entirely from RAM
162 2012-09-28 13:26:17 <Diablo-D3> lol
163 2012-09-28 13:26:18 <Diablo-D3> zoomh
164 2012-09-28 13:26:20 <Diablo-D3> zoomh
165 2012-09-28 13:26:23 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
166 2012-09-28 13:26:26 <Diablo-D3> zoomj
167 2012-09-28 13:26:40 <kjj_> ha!
168 2012-09-28 13:41:20 <Joric> bitcoinfoundation.com should redirect to .org, wrong cert looks baad
169 2012-09-28 13:54:17 <CluckCreek> I send a payment to a multisig address and need to find correct output from the transaction so I can generate and sign a transaction to release those funds later on. My process for finding the correct output is:
170 2012-09-28 13:54:26 <CluckCreek> 1. Using the txid that sendtoaddress returned, get a raw tx (verbose) 2. Get the vout array 3. For each element in the array, get the scriptpubkey object 4. Check if there is exactly 1 address in the address array 5. If so, check if it's the address I sent to. 6. If a match, get the value of n from the output object and return.
171 2012-09-28 13:54:44 <CluckCreek> Is that correct/the best way to do it?
172 2012-09-28 13:56:27 <jgarzik> sipa: I agree that IMPLEMENT_RANDOMIZE_STACK is largely superfluous
173 2012-09-28 13:56:37 <jgarzik> and leads to ugly thread-func-calls-real-thread-func code
174 2012-09-28 14:00:48 <CluckCreek> This is my code: http://pastebin.com/vZ6j2zBq
175 2012-09-28 14:05:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: I dunno what you mean about it being optimized out??? I see it in gdb backtraces, appears to work to me.
176 2012-09-28 14:06:19 <gmaxwell> CluckCreek: sounds right (I haven't looked at the code)
177 2012-09-28 14:06:42 <kjj_> does the IsMine() call not work in the case he is describing?
178 2012-09-28 14:08:12 <Joric> addr.dat should probably be named peers.dat ppl get confused
179 2012-09-28 14:08:35 <kjj_> Joric: 0.7
180 2012-09-28 14:09:12 <Joric> oh lol i swear i didn't know
181 2012-09-28 14:09:37 <Joric> ppl think alike
182 2012-09-28 14:13:13 <sipa> gmaxwell: iirc i checked the generated assembly once, and it got turned into a loop + one function call
183 2012-09-28 14:14:00 <gmaxwell> hm. may depend on the optimization level.
184 2012-09-28 14:14:11 <jgarzik> I think "use a modern compiler with stack protector" is a better answer than crapping the code
185 2012-09-28 14:14:36 <gmaxwell> and an OS with ASLR.
186 2012-09-28 14:15:16 <gmaxwell> it would be nice to get relro,fstackprotector,etc enabled in the windows and mac builds...
187 2012-09-28 14:15:21 <SomeoneWeird> aslr
188 2012-09-28 14:15:22 <SomeoneWeird> lol
189 2012-09-28 14:15:25 <jgarzik> I grant that stack-protector is not strictly the same thing... the main point being that it would be better to align ourselves with the modern tools & techniques that everybody else is using to attack these sorts of problems.
190 2012-09-28 14:15:48 <jgarzik> there are a wide assortment of "little tricks" that should be enabled / turned on
191 2012-09-28 14:16:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: btc.org does not redirect
192 2012-09-28 14:23:46 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: DNS for btc.org will be redirected soon
193 2012-09-28 14:26:05 <jgarzik> hmmm
194 2012-09-28 14:26:19 <jgarzik> surely we need "-z noexecstack" too
195 2012-09-28 14:27:45 <sipa> looks like it
196 2012-09-28 14:29:47 <_dr> hasn't ibm ssp been in gcc for years?
197 2012-09-28 14:30:26 <_dr> and the X^W (what you call noexecstack) is done anyway by x86 CPUs?
198 2012-09-28 14:30:53 <Diablo-D3> its called nx on x86
199 2012-09-28 14:31:10 <Diablo-D3> all amd64 cpus support it, some final gen ia32 support it
200 2012-09-28 14:31:28 <_dr> i guess that's what i'm talking about
201 2012-09-28 14:31:33 <_dr> hardware-enforced DEP
202 2012-09-28 14:31:39 <jgarzik> looks like my Fedora 17 bitcoind build already has GNU_STACK in the ELF file
203 2012-09-28 14:32:12 <jgarzik> but it's marked RW not R... wonder if those flags signal HW protection requested, or something else
204 2012-09-28 14:32:34 <sipa> surely you want your stack to be writable?
205 2012-09-28 14:32:59 <_dr> sipa: surely
206 2012-09-28 14:33:03 <_dr> but not executable :)
207 2012-09-28 14:33:16 <sipa> yes, exactly
208 2012-09-28 14:33:25 <jgarzik> sipa: you misunderstand. I am wondering if that means GNU_STACK may be changed at runtime
209 2012-09-28 14:33:32 <sipa> ah
210 2012-09-28 14:33:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: ack, but Im more interested in (assuming the pull merges) whether master would be sane after pull than whether the pull itself is sane
211 2012-09-28 14:34:03 <BlueMatt> because if master wouldnt be sane, Id assume it cant be pulled until it gets updated
212 2012-09-28 14:34:07 <jgarzik> which might be the case, if those flags indicate GNU_STACK ELF bit malleability, and not HW protection requested
213 2012-09-28 14:34:30 <jgarzik> in any case, I don't think this is harmful: -Wl,-z,noexecstack
214 2012-09-28 14:34:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: but that doesn't tell me anything
215 2012-09-28 14:34:58 <sipa> i already know whether it merges or not
216 2012-09-28 14:35:09 <BlueMatt> Im not saying it should test whether it merges or not
217 2012-09-28 14:35:09 <sipa> and merging can be trivial but not automatic
218 2012-09-28 14:35:19 <BlueMatt> Im saying test the merged version, not the original
219 2012-09-28 14:35:26 <sipa> yes i know what it is doing
220 2012-09-28 14:35:43 <sipa> i just observe that it rarely tells me something i don't know
221 2012-09-28 14:35:47 <BlueMatt> then Im confused on what you are asking about
222 2012-09-28 14:35:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: forum reports may be correct... bitcoinfoundation.org might be seeing a DDoS
223 2012-09-28 14:35:57 <jgarzik> sadly expected
224 2012-09-28 14:35:58 <sipa> in the majority of cases, the problem is that it's trivially outdated
225 2012-09-28 14:36:00 <jgarzik> given this crowd :(
226 2012-09-28 14:36:09 <BlueMatt> oh, bitcoin foundation announced?
227 2012-09-28 14:36:15 <sipa> yes
228 2012-09-28 14:36:19 <BlueMatt> nice
229 2012-09-28 14:36:48 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'd rather not lose the information about whether the pull as such is sane, in the case it is outdated
230 2012-09-28 14:36:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: I would think trivially outdated means merge conflicts more than it fails after merge but not before
231 2012-09-28 14:36:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: announced and prompted DDoS'd, sigh
232 2012-09-28 14:37:00 <jgarzik> *promptly
233 2012-09-28 14:37:07 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: not surprising... :(
234 2012-09-28 14:37:23 <kjj_> shit. am I allowed to make snide remarks to a forum moderator if he's being a tool on the forums?
235 2012-09-28 14:37:37 <BlueMatt> kjj_: if its Diablo-D3, no
236 2012-09-28 14:37:48 <kjj_> Hazek
237 2012-09-28 14:37:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: a "cannot merge but test succeed on pull branch as such" would of course be even more interesting
238 2012-09-28 14:37:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: but that sounds like more work
239 2012-09-28 14:38:00 <kjj_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1228647#msg1228647
240 2012-09-28 14:38:11 <kjj_> I want to tell him to cut bigger airholes in his tinfoil mask
241 2012-09-28 14:38:14 <BlueMatt> kjj_: I dont know the forum mods really at all
242 2012-09-28 14:38:29 <jgarzik> kjj_: free country. the forum has been a ghetto full of trolls for well over a year
243 2012-09-28 14:38:43 <Diablo-D3> [12:37:23] <kjj_> shit. am I allowed to make snide remarks to a forum moderator if he's being a tool on the forums?
244 2012-09-28 14:38:46 <Diablo-D3> mod, yes, admin, no
245 2012-09-28 14:38:47 <jgarzik> some even managed to get moderator powers
246 2012-09-28 14:38:49 <Diablo-D3> mods cant ban you
247 2012-09-28 14:39:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: If "cannot merge" means merge conflicts then sure (and it theoretically wouldnt be too much work...) if its test merged version, then test original...
248 2012-09-28 14:40:20 <sipa> BlueMatt: is it clear what i'm arguing for, actually...?
249 2012-09-28 14:41:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, I just dont see it as useful as testing the merged one
250 2012-09-28 14:41:32 <BlueMatt> I was under the impression the idea of pull-tester was to test for merge-ability, not direct sanity
251 2012-09-28 14:41:47 <BlueMatt> or, really, sanity of master if this were merged
252 2012-09-28 14:43:06 <sipa> ok, too bad you disagree :)
253 2012-09-28 14:44:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: otoh, if you want to code it, Ill send you the .py ;)
254 2012-09-28 14:44:59 <jgarzik> git allows you to work disconnected from master branch, so I think it is useful to test the branch HEAD
255 2012-09-28 14:45:46 <jgarzik> maybe, separate from that, results of a test merge. but sadly our pulls rapidly become not-clean merges.
256 2012-09-28 14:47:18 <BlueMatt> alright...point taken...Ill go switch it...
257 2012-09-28 14:48:11 <sipa> thanks!
258 2012-09-28 14:48:36 <sipa> (you should have gone the 'if you want it, code it!' way a further :p)
259 2012-09-28 14:48:42 <sipa> *a bit
260 2012-09-28 14:49:09 <BlueMatt> I would have, but I cant put pull-tester.py up on github since it uses basic auth and the password for @BitcoinPullTester is in the src...
261 2012-09-28 14:51:47 <BlueMatt> ok, well it no longer tests merge-ability, but I suppose github shows that anyway...should be testing pull heads now (as long as it doesnt blow up)
262 2012-09-28 14:57:00 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: good reply
263 2012-09-28 14:57:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: PS website is back
264 2012-09-28 14:57:54 <asa1024> who writes the mac source code for bit coin?
265 2012-09-28 14:57:56 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: thanks. And RE: website: not sure why it was down, I'm watching that....
266 2012-09-28 14:58:01 <helo> is the AMA - Bitcoin Foundation official?
267 2012-09-28 14:58:41 <jgarzik> helo: yes
268 2012-09-28 14:58:45 <gavinandresen> if you mean is it an Officially Sanctioned by Bitcoin Foundation, Incorporated event.... yes
269 2012-09-28 14:59:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: saw some IRC reports, confirmed down-ness from 3 network locations here. but that was then. now it's back up. ;p
270 2012-09-28 14:59:37 <jgarzik> asa1024: what little Mac source code there is... gavinandresen
271 2012-09-28 14:59:42 <jgarzik> asa1024: most of the code is cross-platform
272 2012-09-28 15:00:00 <asa1024> thank you sir!
273 2012-09-28 15:00:02 <[Tycho]> Is there anyone with a bitcoin-wiki account ?
274 2012-09-28 15:00:40 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: yes
275 2012-09-28 15:01:24 <[Tycho]> Someone added wrong info about our "Reclaimer" project. Can you please remove the note about "one bond equals to 1 GH/s" ?
276 2012-09-28 15:02:51 <[Tycho]> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#DeepBit
277 2012-09-28 15:05:09 <gavinandresen> hazek is annoying me... he edited my original foundation launch post because he thought I screwed up URLS and broke them all (changed .org to .com), thinks the thread should move from the main Bitcoin Discussion forum (if talking about the foundation isn't fit for the main forum what is?), and is now being OCD about the frickin name....
278 2012-09-28 15:05:29 <gavinandresen> ACTION goes to eat lunch, he's probably just grumpy cause he's hungry
279 2012-09-28 15:06:32 <[Tycho]> Oh, found one more occurence of same wrong info here. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT
280 2012-09-28 15:08:34 <[Tycho]> <b>Warning</b>: mcrypt_create_iv() [<a href='function.mcrypt-create-iv'>function.mcrypt-create-iv</a>]: Cannot open source device in <b>/www/b/bi/bitcoin.it/www/phase3/includes/CryptRand.php</b> on line <b>281</b><br />
281 2012-09-28 15:08:50 <[Tycho]> Looks like something is a bit broken... (tried to create an account myself)
282 2012-09-28 15:10:16 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], it's trying to open /dev/random but being denied
283 2012-09-28 15:10:44 <phantomcircuit> im guessing because the server is running grsec or something which limits access to /dev/random to root to avoid the entropy pool being drained by an attacker
284 2012-09-28 15:11:06 <[Tycho]> So how it's generating new seeds then ?
285 2012-09-28 15:11:29 <kjj_> it probably uses getRandomNumber() http://xkcd.com/221/
286 2012-09-28 15:12:01 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], i would guess that there is a fallback to /dev/urandom when /dev/random fails
287 2012-09-28 15:12:10 <phantomcircuit> but that it doesn't properly silence the warning
288 2012-09-28 15:12:19 <phantomcircuit> that's a fairly typical pattern
289 2012-09-28 15:12:20 <[Tycho]> Cool.
290 2012-09-28 15:16:18 <jgarzik> Interesting. "Swiss University jumps into mining game" - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113654.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113715.0
291 2012-09-28 15:17:04 <[Tycho]> Coinbases of those blocks are very different, including both MM and clean bitcoinds, so I'd rather expect just a relay.
292 2012-09-28 15:17:06 <kjj_> no, no, no. This is bitcoin. you have to phrase it right. "Swiss university attacks bitcoin."
293 2012-09-28 15:17:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sigh. I had hoped hazek (obviously anti-BF) would not abuse his mod powers to bury the thread.
294 2012-09-28 15:17:12 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
295 2012-09-28 15:17:35 <jgarzik> kjj_: the second link covered that ;-)
296 2012-09-28 15:18:30 <helo> "We focus on doublespending attacks on fast payments and demonstrate
297 2012-09-28 15:18:39 <helo> that these attacks can be mounted at low cost on currently deployed versions of Bitcoin."
298 2012-09-28 15:18:53 <helo> not very low cost if you're doing it with a 51% attack...
299 2012-09-28 15:19:19 <kjj_> but what an amazing attack. They are mining, and they are being sneaky enough to include normal community transactions in their blocks so that we don't catch on
300 2012-09-28 15:20:22 <[Tycho]> "Gyrsur" is known for NOT understanding how block relays and blockchaininfo's detection works.
301 2012-09-28 15:21:19 <[Tycho]> He already accused me for changing IPs of deepbit and something else for slush too.
302 2012-09-28 15:26:55 <[Tycho]> Fixed the page myself.
303 2012-09-28 15:30:12 <yellowhat> are there any realistic etimates on how much hardware was used by the ETHZ for this attack?
304 2012-09-28 15:31:01 <kjj_> yellowhat: the best answer I can give to your question is: mu
305 2012-09-28 15:31:22 <yellowhat> my question relies on an assumption that is false?
306 2012-09-28 15:31:34 <kjj_> or at least unproven
307 2012-09-28 15:32:34 <kjj_> unless you were using "attack" in the academic sense
308 2012-09-28 15:33:39 <[Tycho]> At least I can see my blocks in that list :)
309 2012-09-28 15:33:56 <[Tycho]> So it's possibly just a well-connected node.
310 2012-09-28 15:34:19 <BlueMatt> we've known that eth zurich has had big nodes up forever...
311 2012-09-28 15:35:48 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: stop the crazy paranoia.
312 2012-09-28 15:36:02 <gmaxwell> blockchain.info is frequently totally crazy about block sources.
313 2012-09-28 15:36:24 <gmaxwell> they're just reporting where they heard it first, subject to the current state of their connections.. when they don't otherwise know the source.
314 2012-09-28 15:37:15 <kjj_> most miners don't sign their coinbases, so block origin is usually about as close to anonymous as you can get
315 2012-09-28 15:38:40 <kjj_> I have a tag that adds -addtag=BLAH to make it easy for solo miners to sign blocks, but it isn't safe, so I don't distribute it. more importantly, there isn't exactly a demand for such a thing because of the anonymous thing
316 2012-09-28 15:38:43 <yellowhat> gmaxwell. i take back the work attack: when i first checked, i thought they were relying empty blocks. upon a second check it turns out these are very regular blocks and the "well-connected-node" theory seems very plausible (Occams razor)
317 2012-09-28 15:39:43 <gmaxwell> kjj_: trivial to lie too, which is fun.
318 2012-09-28 15:39:52 <kjj_> yeah, that too
319 2012-09-28 15:41:24 <kjj_> ooh. we could have the foundation run a CA and reject blocks that aren't signed with valid Foundation certs
320 2012-09-28 15:41:54 <yellowhat> then bitcoin would be much more "solid" and stable we could call it
321 2012-09-28 15:42:06 <yellowhat> ...SolidCoin?
322 2012-09-28 15:43:53 <Eliel> kjj_: yay, centralized bitcoin (not)
323 2012-09-28 15:44:13 <kjj_> heh. I was just curious how many of the tinfoil crowd were awake in here
324 2012-09-28 15:44:32 <gmaxwell> where the @#$ my my face stabbing over IP device???
325 2012-09-28 15:44:33 <Eliel> does not need tinfoil to see that as a bad idea
326 2012-09-28 15:44:50 <kjj_> no, but you need tinfoil to think I was serious
327 2012-09-28 15:44:54 <yellowhat> ok. i have "proof" that it is not ETHZ doing the mining
328 2012-09-28 15:44:57 <kjj_> or that it would be possible
329 2012-09-28 15:45:49 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: can you please post it on every thread before stupid things happen?
330 2012-09-28 15:45:50 <yellowhat> looking at the relayed transactions and their coinbases the destination addresses are shared and reused from at least two mining pools, one of them is BTCGuild
331 2012-09-28 15:46:16 <gmaxwell> "OMG BTCGuild is in league with ETHZ in their attack!"
332 2012-09-28 15:46:39 <yellowhat> .. ahm no that is not the reaction i was hoping for
333 2012-09-28 15:46:53 <[Tycho]> yellowhat: check the kiba's blockorigin site to find out other pools.
334 2012-09-28 15:48:24 <kjj_> Kinda funny that hazek is all upset about people insulting his intelligence. I'm not sure that is possible in the foundation thread
335 2012-09-28 15:52:14 <jgarzik> kjj_: must. resist. ad hominem. response. ;p
336 2012-09-28 15:52:24 <kjj_> heh
337 2012-09-28 15:53:08 <kjj_> I almost made that response already. decided it would be unwise to taunt him too directly
338 2012-09-28 15:56:19 <gmaxwell> kjj_: I like posting technobabble gibberish on the forums in response to people posting technobabble gibberish.
339 2012-09-28 15:59:20 <kjj_> FACT: shad0wbitz is a tool
340 2012-09-28 16:01:14 <BlueMatt> FACT: the forums are a nearly worthless place to get technical things done
341 2012-09-28 16:02:09 <kjj_> sadly, we've grown up now. it isn't just technical things that need to be done
342 2012-09-28 16:02:14 <jgarzik> some of the technical threads are useful, but it really is 98% noise
343 2012-09-28 16:02:26 <jgarzik> or a "ghetto" as Jed, founder of MtGox, noted
344 2012-09-28 16:02:47 <_sense> Is anyone aware of any inflationary chains being worked on?
345 2012-09-28 16:03:31 <kjj_> _sense: bitcoin inflated by like 33% in the last year. does that count?
346 2012-09-28 16:03:36 <[Tycho]> And now he wants ME to show him the proof :)
347 2012-09-28 16:03:39 <maaku> kjj_: nice
348 2012-09-28 16:03:48 <_sense> It's got a fixed size of coins
349 2012-09-28 16:04:20 <kjj_> but they don't all exist yet. supply and demand are drive only by active coins, not potential future coins
350 2012-09-28 16:04:26 <kjj_> er, driven
351 2012-09-28 16:04:41 <_sense> The majority of coins that will exist do exist.
352 2012-09-28 16:04:48 <kjj_> not true
353 2012-09-28 16:05:15 <kjj_> I mean close, but not quite
354 2012-09-28 16:05:43 <kjj_> we'll hit 50% at some point over the next 4-8 weeks
355 2012-09-28 16:05:46 <_sense> Anyway by inflation I was thinking more along the lines of a fixed starting coins per block size with an inflation rate of 2% per year with no limit on coin generation
356 2012-09-28 16:08:08 <_sense> People don't spend bitcoins
357 2012-09-28 16:08:50 <gmaxwell> _sense: there is a whole lot of blockchain traffic.. sometimes millions of dollars worth moved in a few hours, for not spending....
358 2012-09-28 16:09:01 <_sense> You mean being hoarded?
359 2012-09-28 16:09:27 <kjj_> _sense: I'm not aware of any that use an unlimited generation function. I checked a few, and they all decrease over time
360 2012-09-28 16:10:07 <kjj_> _sense: hmm. I spent like 60 BTC in the last month or so out of my mining earnings.
361 2012-09-28 16:10:15 <_sense> On what?
362 2012-09-28 16:10:37 <kjj_> vodka, clothes, computer parts, membership dues, registration fees
363 2012-09-28 16:10:50 <maaku> freicoin has a perpetual reward, albeit with demurrage so the monetary base remains constant
364 2012-09-28 16:10:56 <maaku> very similar to an inflation coin
365 2012-09-28 16:11:08 <_sense> Ya, we talked about the demurrage. I'm just not satisified that people would be willing to adopt it
366 2012-09-28 16:11:24 <_sense> The whole psychological factor of it feeling like a tax
367 2012-09-28 16:24:21 <kjj_> shit, that reminds me. I need to buy another Tupilak. I wonder if netrin is still around
368 2012-09-28 16:51:29 <makomk> jgarzik: the Swiss university has a small Python program blindly forwarding blocks very fast, by the looks of it.
369 2012-09-28 16:56:01 <gmaxwell> makomk: how do you know its a python program?
370 2012-09-28 16:58:18 <makomk> gmaxwell: there's a tarball with it in on the front page of the main IP address they're using.
371 2012-09-28 17:02:08 <gmaxwell> ah.
372 2012-09-28 17:02:16 <gmaxwell> do they intend this to be abusive or ?
373 2012-09-28 17:03:08 <gmaxwell> I've locked that idiot thread on the forum where the howelers think they have umpteen th/s.
374 2012-09-28 17:03:19 <sipa> forum down?
375 2012-09-28 17:03:33 <_sense> I thought the swiss universities was confirmed to be 50btc?
376 2012-09-28 17:03:42 <_sense> er forwarding 50btc blocks*
377 2012-09-28 17:04:00 <_sense> There was a guy in #bitcoin earlier that compared the blocks to 50btcs generation and there was a match.
378 2012-09-28 17:04:26 <sipa> and why do they want to forward blocks?
379 2012-09-28 17:04:47 <yellowhat> i did point that out on the forums and here. there is lots of proof for that even on blockchain.info
380 2012-09-28 17:04:53 <kjj_> epeen waving. they want to climb the stats page on blockchain.info
381 2012-09-28 17:05:05 <yellowhat> but not only 50btc also others
382 2012-09-28 17:05:20 <_sense> was it more than one?
383 2012-09-28 17:05:30 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: which page of this idiot thread is your post? I want to link to it in my lock message.
384 2012-09-28 17:05:32 <_sense> thats weird
385 2012-09-28 17:05:37 <gmaxwell> _sense: it's not weird at all.
386 2012-09-28 17:05:45 <gmaxwell> the blockchain.info sources are just guesses.
387 2012-09-28 17:05:53 <gmaxwell> Often uncorrelated with the actual source.
388 2012-09-28 17:05:53 <_sense> ah
389 2012-09-28 17:06:02 <yellowhat> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113654.msg1228901#msg1228901 i saw at least one btcGuild block too
390 2012-09-28 17:06:15 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: yea I saw one too.
391 2012-09-28 17:07:23 <jgarzik> rofl
392 2012-09-28 17:07:27 <jgarzik> " Warning - while you were typing 27 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. "
393 2012-09-28 17:07:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm not that familiar with x86 assembly, but to have functions leave a stack frame, a call is needed, right?
394 2012-09-28 17:07:44 <yellowhat> gmaxwell, its not that people are dumb. i would find that very exiting if something like that would actually happen. sort of people want to believe in aliens because it makes their world richer.
395 2012-09-28 17:08:24 <jgarzik> My rambling bitcoin mini-manifesto: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1229098#msg1229098
396 2012-09-28 17:08:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: you could advance the stack pointer manually too.
397 2012-09-28 17:08:28 <jgarzik> :)
398 2012-09-28 17:08:29 <kjj_> sipa: in assembly, anything is possible
399 2012-09-28 17:08:50 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: isn't there enough adventure in bitcoin already? :P
400 2012-09-28 17:09:34 <sipa> gmaxwell: obviously
401 2012-09-28 17:09:49 <jgarzik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_calling_conventions
402 2012-09-28 17:09:58 <sipa> but this is GCC generated code, so I doubt that
403 2012-09-28 17:10:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Agree with everything you say there.
404 2012-09-28 17:11:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: GCC can do tail call optimization to convert recursive functions into loops so it's not implausable that it actually could convert that into a loop. Though it would surprise me. I've see it in the backtraces many times though so I assume it's not doing that.
405 2012-09-28 17:11:55 <gmaxwell> but maybe I've only seen it while -O0
406 2012-09-28 17:11:57 <midnightmagic> calling conventions don't have to be that way. netbsd calling conventions put function arguments inside the stack. linux uses as many registers as possible to pass arguments.
407 2012-09-28 17:12:18 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: depends on x86 vs x86_64 abi too.
408 2012-09-28 17:12:18 <midnightmagic> for syscalls I mean.
409 2012-09-28 17:12:22 <copumpkin> I think it'll even do tail calls on non-recursive stuff or mutual recursion
410 2012-09-28 17:12:31 <copumpkin> it shouldn't really care
411 2012-09-28 17:13:00 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Oh, has Linux switched for x86_64?
412 2012-09-28 17:14:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: what I see is this: two functions (the threadXXX one and the threadXXX2 one), the latter only containing one reference to the first in a callq; all the rest are jumps within the function itself (for both functions)
413 2012-09-28 17:15:33 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: there are deepbit's blocks too.
414 2012-09-28 17:19:02 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: x86_64 linux ABI/calling conventions is totally different from x86 ABI/calling conventions
415 2012-09-28 17:20:17 <vladgiurgiu> hello
416 2012-09-28 17:21:23 <helo> would it serve to discourage sketchy asic manufacturer behavior if an "asic breaker" branch were maintained?
417 2012-09-28 17:22:14 <kjj_> helo: we couldn't confound one design without breaking them all.
418 2012-09-28 17:22:34 <helo> yep, it'll break them all
419 2012-09-28 17:22:55 <kjj_> erm, that would be bad, unless you think that they are all going to turn evil at the same time
420 2012-09-28 17:22:59 <vladgiurgiu> hey...
421 2012-09-28 17:23:23 <kjj_> vladgiurgiu: don't announce that you are going to talk, just talk. :)
422 2012-09-28 17:23:23 <vladgiurgiu> could you please help me in a strange problem
423 2012-09-28 17:23:29 <helo> it would only be an option while asics are being introduced, particularly before there are competing suppliers
424 2012-09-28 17:23:45 <vladgiurgiu> how many adresses are by default in a wallet?
425 2012-09-28 17:23:52 <_sense> With the way they said they're going to distribute the first asics it shouldnt matter
426 2012-09-28 17:24:01 <_sense> If indeed bfl is going to be the first
427 2012-09-28 17:24:13 <kjj_> the keypool defaults to 100. it tries to keep that many fresh, unused keys in the wallet at once
428 2012-09-28 17:24:30 <vladgiurgiu> and how do I recover them?
429 2012-09-28 17:24:37 <kjj_> so, when you start for the first time, 100 should be generated.
430 2012-09-28 17:24:53 <vladgiurgiu> I have backed up my wallet
431 2012-09-28 17:24:54 <kjj_> you look at the backup copy you made earlier?
432 2012-09-28 17:25:02 <vladgiurgiu> yes
433 2012-09-28 17:25:06 <[Tycho]> Most of ASIC buyers are the very hardcore bitcoin enthusiasts and miners, so they won't welcome protocol changes easily :) Unless something very-very bad happens.
434 2012-09-28 17:25:19 <vladgiurgiu> and it seams I can't get one of them
435 2012-09-28 17:25:33 <kjj_> vladgiurgiu: what do you mean you can't get one of them?
436 2012-09-28 17:26:03 <[Tycho]> BTW, BBE is broken again.
437 2012-09-28 17:26:04 <vladgiurgiu> I backed up my wallet ....then made a new adress and got some BTC
438 2012-09-28 17:26:12 <vladgiurgiu> and didn't back my wallet again
439 2012-09-28 17:26:35 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: looks like x86_64 has moved to register-based syscall args in NetBSD too.
440 2012-09-28 17:26:36 <kjj_> ok, what normally happens is that when you run for the first time, it creates 100 addresses
441 2012-09-28 17:26:37 <vladgiurgiu> I copied the old wallet and now I can't get that adress I got 4.5 BTC with
442 2012-09-28 17:26:53 <kjj_> when you ask for a new address, it pulls one out of that pool and gives it to you
443 2012-09-28 17:26:58 <vladgiurgiu> ok
444 2012-09-28 17:27:02 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: yeah it's pretty sweet
445 2012-09-28 17:27:05 <jgarzik> compared to 32-bit x86
446 2012-09-28 17:27:10 <kjj_> the address was in the file the whole time, you just didn't see it until you asked for it
447 2012-09-28 17:27:12 <vladgiurgiu> I made 100 new adresses and still didn't get it
448 2012-09-28 17:27:15 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: I'm disappointed somehow. :)
449 2012-09-28 17:27:19 <kjj_> you won't
450 2012-09-28 17:27:21 <jgarzik> bah :)
451 2012-09-28 17:27:33 <vladgiurgiu> and how can I get my 4.5 BTC back
452 2012-09-28 17:27:39 <kjj_> but the key is in your backup, let the chain sync up, and you'll have your BTC
453 2012-09-28 17:27:46 <kjj_> do you know the address?
454 2012-09-28 17:27:56 <vladgiurgiu> I let the chain sync up and still nothing
455 2012-09-28 17:27:57 <vladgiurgiu> yes
456 2012-09-28 17:28:23 <kjj_> command line, or QT?
457 2012-09-28 17:28:31 <vladgiurgiu> can we talk on prv?..QT
458 2012-09-28 17:28:39 <kjj_> what block does it say you are on?
459 2012-09-28 17:28:53 <vladgiurgiu> now?
460 2012-09-28 17:28:59 <kjj_> yes
461 2012-09-28 17:29:38 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: :-) it just seemed so broken-up if some args go in regs, and some go in stack. Also looks like x86 is still using stack on NetBSD. Huh! Well I wonder now how the rtl decides whether an assembly program should be passed to the Linux emulation layer or not..
462 2012-09-28 17:29:47 <ajf_me> hey uh
463 2012-09-28 17:29:52 <ajf_me> on Ubuntu with 0.7 x64
464 2012-09-28 17:29:59 <ajf_me> no menus?
465 2012-09-28 17:30:03 <ajf_me> :?
466 2012-09-28 17:30:18 <ajf_me> how do I get to settings? :(
467 2012-09-28 17:30:18 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: If the elf header is missing an .ident note, on x86, it used to be that NetBSD would default to assuming the program was a Linux assembly program.
468 2012-09-28 17:30:20 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: Very true. But practicality won out. Registers are just -so much- faster.
469 2012-09-28 17:30:34 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: And compilers -already- had to have a super-intelligent register allocator, for 32-bit x86
470 2012-09-28 17:30:43 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: google for "register renaming" sometime
471 2012-09-28 17:31:35 <Diablo-D3> gcc does insane register magic
472 2012-09-28 17:33:20 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: Well now I'm just curious as hell..
473 2012-09-28 17:34:30 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: your x86 processor does insane register magic, and gcc has to make a guess as to what's going on under the hood ;p
474 2012-09-28 17:34:31 <kjj_> hey, how big was the keypool back in April?
475 2012-09-28 17:35:01 <sipa> it's always been 100
476 2012-09-28 17:35:04 <sipa> by default
477 2012-09-28 17:35:07 <kjj_> ok
478 2012-09-28 17:35:53 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: Ive bitched about this before
479 2012-09-28 17:36:06 <Diablo-D3> like intel and amd's newest gen? both have about 120 registers per core
480 2012-09-28 17:36:06 <jgarzik> kjj_: git history does indeed go back into subversion days
481 2012-09-28 17:36:18 <Diablo-D3> and may also have register windows to multiply that
482 2012-09-28 17:36:18 <jgarzik> kjj_: all the subversion history was imported, changeset by changeset
483 2012-09-28 17:36:27 <kjj_> cool
484 2012-09-28 17:36:27 <sipa> kjj_: since oct 9, 2010
485 2012-09-28 17:36:36 <sipa> commit 103849419a9c014a69c76b6f96e48b66cbc838ca
486 2012-09-28 17:37:18 <kjj_> this guy I'm talking to says he backed up his wallet, got a transaction to one of the addresses from it, restored onto another computer, waited for a sync, and that one transaction isn't showing up
487 2012-09-28 17:37:58 <kjj_> didn't sound like he could have run through 100 keys to exhaust the keypool either
488 2012-09-28 17:38:24 <sipa> have him try -rescan
489 2012-09-28 17:39:06 <kjj_> yeah, but I didn't think that was necessary any more. or do you still need it if you put the wallet in first and then start the IBD?
490 2012-09-28 17:39:32 <sipa> you shouldn't ever need it
491 2012-09-28 17:39:52 <vladgiurgiu> I have tried it
492 2012-09-28 17:40:05 <sipa> and didn't help?
493 2012-09-28 17:40:55 <vladgiurgiu> no
494 2012-09-28 17:41:04 <kjj_> did jackjack ever update pywallet to handle encryption?
495 2012-09-28 17:41:09 <gmaxwell> well 100 since there has been a keypool.
496 2012-09-28 17:41:37 <gmaxwell> kjj_: it's possible to end up there if he encrypted after the backup and before the transactions.
497 2012-09-28 17:41:39 <kjj_> the transaction was April 29th, 2012.
498 2012-09-28 17:42:35 <vladgiurgiu> I remember encrypting it sometime, but don't know when
499 2012-09-28 17:42:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: gdb on a -flto -O3 binary doesn't show any signs of a working implement stack randomize
500 2012-09-28 17:43:18 <gmaxwell> (because encrypt replaces the keypool)
501 2012-09-28 17:44:03 <vladgiurgiu> so did I lose the 4.5 BTC?
502 2012-09-28 17:44:24 <kjj_> any chance you could try to find another copy of the old wallet?
503 2012-09-28 17:44:33 <vladgiurgiu> no...
504 2012-09-28 17:44:35 <sipa> vladgiurgiu: if your backup is pre-encryption, and the payment post-encryption, I'm afraid you lost it
505 2012-09-28 17:45:01 <kjj_> how long ago did you format and reinstall?
506 2012-09-28 17:45:13 <vladgiurgiu> and if everything is post encryption
507 2012-09-28 17:45:20 <vladgiurgiu> let me look
508 2012-09-28 17:45:52 <vladgiurgiu> the backup is from 13th of march
509 2012-09-28 17:46:01 <vladgiurgiu> I don't know if you had encryption back then
510 2012-09-28 17:46:07 <kjj_> yeah, there was
511 2012-09-28 17:46:16 <kjj_> it was some time in 2011 that encryption was added
512 2012-09-28 17:46:25 <vladgiurgiu> ok
513 2012-09-28 17:46:55 <kjj_> if the format was recent, I would say turn that computer off ASAP, and plug that drive into another box and run pywallet's search mode
514 2012-09-28 17:46:57 <vladgiurgiu> so then what is the problem?
515 2012-09-28 17:47:09 <vladgiurgiu> it wasn't recent
516 2012-09-28 17:47:29 <vladgiurgiu> it was a separate partition that was encrypted
517 2012-09-28 17:48:01 <vladgiurgiu> and I had some problems with partitioning and I think I added to another partition after formating
518 2012-09-28 17:48:17 <helo> :/
519 2012-09-28 17:48:25 <kjj_> does the bitcoin client ask you for your wallet passphrase when you try to send bitcoins?
520 2012-09-28 17:48:31 <vladgiurgiu> yes
521 2012-09-28 17:48:49 <ajf_me> hooray for sanity
522 2012-09-28 17:49:03 <sipa> ajf_me: sanity?
523 2012-09-28 17:49:19 <ajf_me> yes
524 2012-09-28 17:49:27 <ajf_me> it wouldn't make sense if it didn't ;)
525 2012-09-28 17:49:35 <sipa> right
526 2012-09-28 17:49:40 <phantomcircuit> kjj_, only on tuesdays
527 2012-09-28 17:49:58 <gmaxwell> rdponticelli: yep. thats how it works.
528 2012-09-28 17:50:01 <gmaxwell> er p.
529 2012-09-28 17:50:02 <gmaxwell> kjj_:
530 2012-09-28 17:50:13 <vladgiurgiu> so, does anyone have a clue what may be wrong?
531 2012-09-28 17:50:24 <kjj_> I was trying to make sure his wallet was encrypted, and not just the volume storing it
532 2012-09-28 17:51:01 <phantomcircuit> kjj_, ohh
533 2012-09-28 17:51:09 <phantomcircuit> fair enough :)
534 2012-09-28 17:51:58 <kjj_> I think you might be out of luck, sorry. you could try running Joric's fork of pywallet to see if you can recover keys from the backup copy
535 2012-09-28 17:52:12 <vladgiurgiu> what is that?
536 2012-09-28 17:52:29 <kjj_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34028.120
537 2012-09-28 17:52:59 <vladgiurgiu> it dumps wallet to text?
538 2012-09-28 17:53:02 <kjj_> jackjack wrote a python program to extract keys from wallet.dat files. Joric added encryption support, I think
539 2012-09-28 17:53:22 <Joric> kjj_, reverse order
540 2012-09-28 17:53:29 <kjj_> oh, heh. ok
541 2012-09-28 17:53:34 <Joric> kjj_, jackjack forked pywallet at 1.1
542 2012-09-28 17:53:39 <kjj_> been a while, sorry
543 2012-09-28 17:54:05 <vladgiurgiu> so that should I actually do?
544 2012-09-28 17:55:04 <kjj_> get pywallet, run it against the backup copy of your wallet.dat. it should give you a bunch of keys
545 2012-09-28 17:55:27 <kjj_> then you import them into your running bitcoin client. most of them it will already have, but hopefully one of them will be the missing one
546 2012-09-28 17:55:28 <vladgiurgiu> how do I get pywallet?
547 2012-09-28 17:55:37 <kjj_> read that thread I linked
548 2012-09-28 17:55:58 <kjj_> it is quite a long shot, but at this point, it seems like the only chance
549 2012-09-28 17:56:33 <Joric> gavin should really add aes decryption to bitcointools i'm way too busy for a pull request
550 2012-09-28 17:57:58 <kjj_> Joric: which repo has the "best" version of pywallet? yours or jackjacks?
551 2012-09-28 17:58:20 <Joric> mine ofc
552 2012-09-28 17:58:49 <Joric> https://github.com/joric/pywallet no deps, jackjack's fork needs a shitload of libs
553 2012-09-28 17:59:02 <sipa> "Hey Satan, should I join Hell or Heaven?"
554 2012-09-28 18:00:28 <Diablo-D3> Heaven, clearly.
555 2012-09-28 18:00:34 <kjj_> oh, cool. you've got a python MSI installer right in the readme too
556 2012-09-28 18:02:39 <kjj_> LOL. Hazek on the forums. "People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded."
557 2012-09-28 18:03:01 <sipa> i don't think he's stupid
558 2012-09-28 18:03:23 <kjj_> I don't either, but something about that thread chopped his IQ in half
559 2012-09-28 18:04:54 <gmaxwell> kjj_: link?
560 2012-09-28 18:05:07 <kjj_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1229180#msg1229180
561 2012-09-28 18:05:25 <gmaxwell> kjj_: you've got to be fairly smart to find your way onto the forums; so it's always interesting to see people being daft.
562 2012-09-28 18:06:28 <gmaxwell> oh.. that thread.
563 2012-09-28 18:06:45 <gmaxwell> well hey, as an alternative there is the atlas started one (how'd he get unbanned?)
564 2012-09-28 18:06:58 <[Tycho]> daft is the one dreaming of a smoking lounge ?
565 2012-09-28 18:07:06 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: give me all of your asics.
566 2012-09-28 18:07:14 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: what for ?
567 2012-09-28 18:07:54 <Diablo-D3> have to fight the swiss
568 2012-09-28 18:08:06 <[Tycho]> Go buy all of my bonds then.
569 2012-09-28 18:08:08 <Diablo-D3> Im going to need a pair of bagpipes too
570 2012-09-28 18:08:19 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: gah, you're not being stupid too are you?
571 2012-09-28 18:08:37 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: when is Diablo-D3 not?
572 2012-09-28 18:09:17 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I thought it was obvious I was being funny when I said bagpipes
573 2012-09-28 18:11:33 <Evilmax> in week end the price always goes down?
574 2012-09-28 18:11:45 <kjj_> yup. except when it goes up
575 2012-09-28 18:11:55 <Evilmax> ;)
576 2012-09-28 18:13:51 <[Tycho]> ASICs are cool.
577 2012-09-28 18:13:59 <[Tycho]> Well, hot too.
578 2012-09-28 18:14:12 <sipa> not when properly cooled :p
579 2012-09-28 18:14:30 <sipa> or turned off
580 2012-09-28 18:14:53 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: you're making a 3U box right?
581 2012-09-28 18:15:40 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: yes, but latest changes may turn it into 2U if I'll drop the idea of allowing ATX PSU.
582 2012-09-28 18:16:12 <Diablo-D3> ATX psu isnt needed if its truly enterprise hardware
583 2012-09-28 18:16:18 <Diablo-D3> plus you CAN get redundant 2U PSUs.
584 2012-09-28 18:16:29 <Diablo-D3> and 2U psus are commodity hardware anyhow
585 2012-09-28 18:16:47 <kjj_> brb
586 2012-09-28 18:16:50 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: how much power is it using?
587 2012-09-28 18:16:58 <[Tycho]> Actually ATX PSU does fits 2U if the fan is on the back, not big side
588 2012-09-28 18:17:28 <Diablo-D3> enterprise psus are always AT 80mm fan position, not new age fucktard 120mm fan bullshit
589 2012-09-28 18:17:33 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: RM's backplane allows changing the number of worker boards, so it can be different.
590 2012-09-28 18:17:37 <Diablo-D3> so you might have trouble fitting it weird
591 2012-09-28 18:17:47 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: that doesnt answer my question.
592 2012-09-28 18:19:18 <[Tycho]> As we only have simulation results yet, this amount can change almost by 300%, so I would like to announce power dissipation after getting the test batch.
593 2012-09-28 18:19:26 <Diablo-D3> meh.
594 2012-09-28 18:19:36 <Diablo-D3> whats the maximum target then, half a 20a 120v?
595 2012-09-28 18:19:41 <sipa> sounds like lousy simulation
596 2012-09-28 18:19:51 <Diablo-D3> sipa: thats the problem with simulations
597 2012-09-28 18:19:53 <Diablo-D3> they ALL suck
598 2012-09-28 18:20:46 <[Tycho]> AFAIK, all other BTC ASIC vendors don't publish theirs too.
599 2012-09-28 18:21:03 <[Tycho]> Also it depends on the actual quality of chips.
600 2012-09-28 18:21:12 <sipa> [Tycho]: you're building ASICs?
601 2012-09-28 18:21:23 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: much less than that.
602 2012-09-28 18:21:28 <[Tycho]> sipa: surprise !
603 2012-09-28 18:21:34 <Diablo-D3> 1/3rd? 1/4th?
604 2012-09-28 18:21:42 <[Tycho]> Yes. Everyone does.
605 2012-09-28 18:21:46 <sipa> i mean - as opposed to packaging asics created by others
606 2012-09-28 18:22:00 <Diablo-D3> because if its only 600w, why bother
607 2012-09-28 18:22:02 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: is that 20a value of some significance ?
608 2012-09-28 18:22:09 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: wtf man
609 2012-09-28 18:22:15 <[Tycho]> Yes, it's expected to be less than 600w.
610 2012-09-28 18:22:16 <Diablo-D3> amps * volts = watts
611 2012-09-28 18:22:34 <kjj_> funny story... one year at Defcon, this guy was droning on about how his firewall had an ASIC in it. I leaned over and told the guy next to me, "He has an ASIC, so does the Furby." The next day, I heard people talking about the firewall built with a Furby CPU
612 2012-09-28 18:22:38 <[Tycho]> You said "half a 20a" instead of "10a", that's why I'm asking.
613 2012-09-28 18:23:00 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: 20a 120v is a datacenter standard
614 2012-09-28 18:23:18 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: depends on country, I guess.
615 2012-09-28 18:23:24 <Diablo-D3> oh, you're not in the US are you
616 2012-09-28 18:23:33 <[Tycho]> Exactly.
617 2012-09-28 18:23:40 <[Tycho]> I'm living in 220V-worlds.
618 2012-09-28 18:23:48 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what they use over there
619 2012-09-28 18:23:55 <Diablo-D3> I doubt its 230v 30a or whatever comes out of your wall
620 2012-09-28 18:24:12 <Diablo-D3> probably much higher amp
621 2012-09-28 18:24:22 <[Tycho]> Usually the total power dissipation is limited per rack
622 2012-09-28 18:24:35 <Diablo-D3> Im aware of that
623 2012-09-28 18:24:53 <kjj_> 230/30 is a LOT of power
624 2012-09-28 18:24:57 <Diablo-D3> why do you think DMC wants to build a dc focusing on high density computing?
625 2012-09-28 18:25:04 <[Tycho]> 230/30 is not used.
626 2012-09-28 18:25:12 <Diablo-D3> kjj_: not if your limit is 25kw per rack
627 2012-09-28 18:26:02 <[Tycho]> Standard "computer" plug is only rated for 10A and most "stock" PSUs use that.
628 2012-09-28 18:26:48 <[Tycho]> (I'm aware that there are other ones)
629 2012-09-28 18:27:03 <Diablo-D3> yeah, theres lots of funky shit
630 2012-09-28 18:27:20 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: how less than 600w though?
631 2012-09-28 18:27:21 <[Tycho]> I have a different one on my UPS, for example.
632 2012-09-28 18:27:27 <Diablo-D3> you have to have a maximum wattage in mind
633 2012-09-28 18:28:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: RE "I thought he was banned" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113735.msg1229385#msg1229385
634 2012-09-28 18:28:08 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: I can't say the exact numbers before testing an actual chip. Otherwise people will point fingers at me and tell that I'm like BFL.
635 2012-09-28 18:28:27 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but you just said you can add and remove boards on the backplane to meet your target
636 2012-09-28 18:28:56 <[Tycho]> Yes.
637 2012-09-28 18:29:08 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and if its less than like 400 watts, I dont see the point of building a 2U box
638 2012-09-28 18:29:20 <kjj_> dude. the title says [CONFIRMED]. the internet doesn't just let any crackpot type that
639 2012-09-28 18:29:49 <[Tycho]> My initial idea was to allow ATX PSU usage so users will be able to insert more worker boards and replace the PSU. But now PSU upgrade won't be required anymore.
640 2012-09-28 18:30:14 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: rackmountable equipment is very convenient comparing to just plain boxes.
641 2012-09-28 18:30:46 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but if that 2U is $2800 and only uses 400 watts, I just dont get it
642 2012-09-28 18:30:48 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, kjj_: grrr. that link was to a post apparently deleted by its author. it was a reference to a ~Sept 10 2012 message about Atlas's return to the forums.
643 2012-09-28 18:31:02 <[Tycho]> What's wrong with 2U ?
644 2012-09-28 18:31:07 <Diablo-D3> nothing
645 2012-09-28 18:31:12 <Diablo-D3> its the price and power usage thats the problem
646 2012-09-28 18:31:46 <[Tycho]> Well, I can arrange a special order for you that will consume 2Kw and double as a room-heater.
647 2012-09-28 18:32:01 <Diablo-D3> lol
648 2012-09-28 18:32:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: oh.. I was confused...
649 2012-09-28 18:32:52 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, kjj_: OK, here is the original link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15672.msg1177521#msg1177521
650 2012-09-28 18:33:33 <vladgiurgiu> if I have the private key from a wallet can I get all the adresses associated with that key?
651 2012-09-28 18:33:50 <kjj_> there is only one address associated with a private key
652 2012-09-28 18:34:18 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: or may be I don't get what you are trying to say. I won't make it 1U because worker boards can't be that thin and because big racks will contain much more case metal instead of actual hardware.
653 2012-09-28 18:34:19 <vladgiurgiu> and in that dumpfile where is the private key?
654 2012-09-28 18:34:34 <kjj_> jgarzik: I'm tempted to start copying acoindr's "I'm going to keep posting" post, but ask why wookies come from Endor
655 2012-09-28 18:34:43 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: Im saying if its only using 400w, theres probably a lot of wasted space in the box
656 2012-09-28 18:35:22 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: what is normal "watts per cm3 of space" then ?
657 2012-09-28 18:35:28 <jgarzik> heh
658 2012-09-28 18:35:37 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: there isnt one
659 2012-09-28 18:35:48 <Diablo-D3> but we're talking about high density compute here, and 400w just seems too damned low
660 2012-09-28 18:36:02 <[Tycho]> The box won't be empty, for sure.
661 2012-09-28 18:36:11 <Diablo-D3> and yes, dont make a 1U
662 2012-09-28 18:36:15 <Diablo-D3> they're just too cramped to work in
663 2012-09-28 18:36:18 <Diablo-D3> and cooling always sucks
664 2012-09-28 18:36:43 <Diablo-D3> infact, this is why I was interested in 4U mining rigs
665 2012-09-28 18:36:43 <[Tycho]> But I would like to keep it compatible with 600x600 racks.
666 2012-09-28 18:36:52 <vladgiurgiu> where is that private key in the dumfile.txt?
667 2012-09-28 18:37:04 <[Tycho]> 4U is way too much. Don't see why 3U isn't enough.
668 2012-09-28 18:37:22 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: 4U lets you use 120mm fans
669 2012-09-28 18:37:55 <_sense> Ya, definitely go with 4U so you can use 120mm intake and exhaust
670 2012-09-28 18:37:58 <[Tycho]> Cooling will be normal front-to-back flow.
671 2012-09-28 18:38:08 <sipa> vladgiurgiu: every line that starts with "Privkey: "
672 2012-09-28 18:38:09 <_sense> Correct, in take 120mm on the front
673 2012-09-28 18:38:10 <Diablo-D3> yes, but 120mm lets you have more CFM per U
674 2012-09-28 18:38:12 <_sense> exhaust 120mm on the back
675 2012-09-28 18:38:18 <sipa> vladgiurgiu: with the corresponding address above it
676 2012-09-28 18:38:21 <[Tycho]> 120 mm fans are useful for home installation where silence is required.
677 2012-09-28 18:38:36 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: not at all
678 2012-09-28 18:38:46 <vladgiurgiu> i don't have any Privkey:
679 2012-09-28 18:38:49 <[Tycho]> So you think they are more durable ?
680 2012-09-28 18:38:51 <Diablo-D3> high density compute in the enterprise has been using 120mm a lot
681 2012-09-28 18:38:59 <Diablo-D3> yes, they're more durable too due to lower rpm
682 2012-09-28 18:39:09 <kjj_> sipa: this is the --dumpwallet output from pywallet.py
683 2012-09-28 18:39:51 <[Tycho]> No, sorry, but 4U is not possible except for a special order.
684 2012-09-28 18:40:10 <sipa> kjj_: you probably know better than me, carry on :)
685 2012-09-28 18:40:24 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: so why bother making rackmount boxes at all if you're not going to use them to their fullest?
686 2012-09-28 18:40:43 <[Tycho]> May be it will be like two 2U backplane-systems in one 4U enclosure for special order.
687 2012-09-28 18:41:07 <kjj_> oh shit, I haven't used it myself in like a year. I don't remember the output being in JSON.
688 2012-09-28 18:41:16 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: because rackmount boxes are better than "plain" boxes.
689 2012-09-28 18:41:58 <Joric> i'd import that json into blockchain.info and send it to another address
690 2012-09-28 18:42:07 <[Tycho]> Well, because you can mount them in a rack :)
691 2012-09-28 18:42:28 <kjj_> Joric: the address he is looking for isn't in the output, and he's not sure if the private keys are either
692 2012-09-28 18:42:49 <vladgiurgiu> I imported it
693 2012-09-28 18:42:50 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: btw, whats the price of those bonds in btc?
694 2012-09-28 18:43:04 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: currently one bond is traded for 6.5 BTC
695 2012-09-28 18:43:09 <Diablo-D3> jesus
696 2012-09-28 18:43:16 <vladgiurgiu> Joric I did but I don't see the 4.5 BTC I lost
697 2012-09-28 18:43:33 <[Tycho]> Surprised ? It conforms with the USD price published.
698 2012-09-28 18:44:15 <Joric> im out of ideas maybe it got corrupted right at this address
699 2012-09-28 18:44:25 <Diablo-D3> I'd need 520 BTC to buy one of those RM rigs
700 2012-09-28 18:44:52 <[Tycho]> 227.5 BTC, actually
701 2012-09-28 18:44:59 <[Tycho]> 35x6.5
702 2012-09-28 18:44:59 <vladgiurgiu> and I can't recover the privkey for this adress? 13mSXtkyxuNnjyAsSS12X9wHLaph4HmPSW
703 2012-09-28 18:45:13 <_sense> Are your asics actually shipping or just some weird bond pay out thing?
704 2012-09-28 18:45:30 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: erm, I thought that thread said 4 bonds for a 4 ghs box, and the RM is 80 ghs so...
705 2012-09-28 18:45:30 <_sense> I didnt understand that when I was reading the post
706 2012-09-28 18:45:31 <[Tycho]> _sense: yes, shipping. When produced.
707 2012-09-28 18:45:35 <sipa> _sense: no asic exists yet
708 2012-09-28 18:45:50 <midnightmagic> well.. no asic has been publically demonstrated yet.
709 2012-09-28 18:45:56 <sipa> right, that
710 2012-09-28 18:46:02 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: yes, 4 bonds for 4 GH/s bonds. Because one bond equals to 80 USD of listed price.
711 2012-09-28 18:46:36 <[Tycho]> I can believe in ArtForz 350 nm sASICs, but they weren't demonstrated too.
712 2012-09-28 18:46:56 <Diablo-D3> whatever happened to artforz
713 2012-09-28 18:47:07 <kjj_> he got sick of the forums too
714 2012-09-28 18:47:21 <sipa> 22:47:09 [freenode] -!- idle : 0 days 23 hours 14 mins 4 secs [signon: Tue Sep 25 10:28:37 2012]
715 2012-09-28 18:48:09 <midnightmagic> [Tycho]: That's not actually true. He had pictures, and wallets linked to him, and they matched up with what he was describing. That's about as public a demonstration as it gets without actually putting one in your hands.
716 2012-09-28 18:48:24 <Diablo-D3> he wasnt selling his, though
717 2012-09-28 18:48:33 <jgarzik> he sold a bit
718 2012-09-28 18:48:36 <midnightmagic> ArtForz didn't get sick of the forums. He signed an NDA which forbade him from talking about.. who knows.. and to prevent risk of violating that, he went away for a while.
719 2012-09-28 18:48:40 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: really? damn him
720 2012-09-28 18:48:46 <Diablo-D3> I told him I'd buy some if he ever decided to sell them
721 2012-09-28 18:48:52 <jgarzik> I bought some from ArtForz in the early day.... on bitcoinmarket, IIRC
722 2012-09-28 18:48:57 <jgarzik> *days
723 2012-09-28 18:49:02 <midnightmagic> And then he said he was spending too much time on IRC and not getting anything dne, so he was going to go away for a while.
724 2012-09-28 18:49:21 <kjj_> midnightmagic: yeah, but the crazies get all frothy when you say things like that
725 2012-09-28 18:49:46 <jgarzik> ArtForz certainly contributed a lot of brain cycles (as well as hash cycles) to bitcoin
726 2012-09-28 18:49:47 <midnightmagic> kjj_: He never actually lied to me, and everything he ever said that I read was nearly 100% self-consistent.
727 2012-09-28 18:50:05 <jgarzik> he spotted several problems that Satoshi had to fix rather quickly
728 2012-09-28 18:50:10 <midnightmagic> kjj_: Therefore, let the crazies get frothy. They can go fsck themselves.
729 2012-09-28 18:50:15 <Diablo-D3> yeah, artforz was cool
730 2012-09-28 18:50:20 <kjj_> midnightmagic: heh
731 2012-09-28 18:51:11 <Diablo-D3> nefario is probably going to go apeshit if I get an icbit account
732 2012-09-28 18:51:21 <Diablo-D3> but who cares
733 2012-09-28 18:51:34 <[Tycho]> Yes, last winter I asked him to sell his ASIC design, but he told me about that NDA thing.
734 2012-09-28 18:52:00 <[Tycho]> Does Nefario cares about you ?
735 2012-09-28 18:52:03 <midnightmagic> I think being king of the hill is tiresome. If there were hardcore crypto math nerds or engineers that were better than he was spending time in here, probably Art would still be here.
736 2012-09-28 18:52:08 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: you missed the drama?
737 2012-09-28 18:52:19 <[Tycho]> I noticed the drama about Nefario and Goat.
738 2012-09-28 18:52:33 <Diablo-D3> he locked my account and accused me of stealing from DMC
739 2012-09-28 18:52:42 <[Tycho]> Stealing ? How ?
740 2012-09-28 18:52:47 <Diablo-D3> he wouldnt say
741 2012-09-28 18:53:00 <Diablo-D3> he ended up unlocking it after he refused to answer any questions from anyone
742 2012-09-28 18:53:08 <midnightmagic> Stealing value of the stock away..
743 2012-09-28 18:53:31 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: which is a meaningless statement
744 2012-09-28 18:53:41 <[Tycho]> Sadly ICBIT.se doesn't offers stock trading yet, otherwise Nefario actions would be good for us.
745 2012-09-28 18:53:43 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Yeah but don't say he wouldn't say anything. :)
746 2012-09-28 18:54:09 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: if I buy these bonds, can I sell them or send them to someone else?
747 2012-09-28 18:54:22 <[Tycho]> Yes, anyone can sell them.
748 2012-09-28 18:54:30 <[Tycho]> (no fee)
749 2012-09-28 18:54:39 <[Tycho]> Free giving is not implemented yet.
750 2012-09-28 18:54:56 <Joric> good old vaporware
751 2012-09-28 18:55:16 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: so you rise millions of USD yet ?
752 2012-09-28 18:55:27 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: nope
753 2012-09-28 18:55:57 <[Tycho]> Tens of thousands ?
754 2012-09-28 18:56:19 <Diablo-D3> something like that
755 2012-09-28 18:57:20 <[Tycho]> Not so good for building a DC.
756 2012-09-28 18:57:29 <[Tycho]> But you can rent something.
757 2012-09-28 18:57:33 <Diablo-D3> I dont think the community can afford it.
758 2012-09-28 18:57:38 <Diablo-D3> renting something makes no sense
759 2012-09-28 18:58:02 <[Tycho]> Which community ?
760 2012-09-28 18:58:40 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin.
761 2012-09-28 18:59:00 <[Tycho]> We should do something.
762 2012-09-28 18:59:02 <[Tycho]> then
763 2012-09-28 18:59:42 <[Tycho]> At least ngzhang managed to rise $400k in just one day.
764 2012-09-28 19:00:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I have no clue how he did that
765 2012-09-28 19:00:46 <_sense> why would you want to build a bitcoin DC?
766 2012-09-28 19:00:49 <Diablo-D3> I mean its like, I come up with a great plan, everyone trolls and attacks
767 2012-09-28 19:00:54 <Diablo-D3> _sense: its not for bitcoin
768 2012-09-28 19:01:04 <Diablo-D3> although we'd gladly do business IN bitcoin
769 2012-09-28 19:01:17 <[Tycho]> Recently we implemented Gold and Oil futures nominated in BTC, let's see if people will be interested in that. Playing with securities is fun.
770 2012-09-28 19:01:19 <_sense> What are you doing?
771 2012-09-28 19:01:31 <Diablo-D3> _sense: just a DC for high density computing
772 2012-09-28 19:01:34 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: because people believe him, I suppose.
773 2012-09-28 19:01:45 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: yeah but what did he do that I didnt already?
774 2012-09-28 19:02:00 <[Tycho]> Shipped a good product in time and in specs.
775 2012-09-28 19:02:05 <Diablo-D3> I was here before him, Im well known in the foss community, I wrote important bitcoin software
776 2012-09-28 19:02:10 <Diablo-D3> all he did was slap an fpga on a board
777 2012-09-28 19:02:25 <gjs278> somebody sell me asics or fpgas or whatever the hell I plug into the wall and come back to money later
778 2012-09-28 19:02:48 <[Tycho]> Also he doesn't tells people that they are idiots. Sometimes this helps.
779 2012-09-28 19:03:02 <_sense> So you'd just rent stuff for people to mine on?
780 2012-09-28 19:03:05 <sipa> haha :D
781 2012-09-28 19:03:07 <_sense> Or provide colocation, or what?
782 2012-09-28 19:03:18 <Diablo-D3> _sense: do you understand what a DC is?
783 2012-09-28 19:03:25 <[Tycho]> Direct Current !
784 2012-09-28 19:03:30 <_sense> Ya I've got a couple 42U racks
785 2012-09-28 19:03:33 <[Tycho]> Or something like this.
786 2012-09-28 19:03:37 <gjs278> well first he would take the money, then in true bitcoin fashion, get "hacked" and move to the bahamas
787 2012-09-28 19:03:39 <Diablo-D3> _sense: you rent those from someone.
788 2012-09-28 19:03:44 <sipa> district of columbia?
789 2012-09-28 19:03:50 <[Tycho]> ACTION has some 42U racks in my kitchen.
790 2012-09-28 19:03:52 <_sense> I just wasnt sure what would make you special
791 2012-09-28 19:04:07 <Diablo-D3> _sense: you cant put 25kw worth of gear in your racks.
792 2012-09-28 19:04:15 <vladgiurgiu> how do I export private keys from wallet.dat?
793 2012-09-28 19:04:27 <[Tycho]> vladgiurgiu: "dumpprivkey"
794 2012-09-28 19:04:29 <sipa> vladgiurgiu: bitcoind dumpprivkey <address>
795 2012-09-28 19:05:48 <vladgiurgiu> thanks a lot