1 2013-01-04 00:01:48 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: hey, if we had paring based crypography deployed your name could be a real public key. :P
2 2013-01-04 01:13:09 <gavinandresen> gladosc: http://blockchain.info/api/blockchain_api has a list-transactions given an address. The reference implementation does not.
3 2013-01-04 01:13:38 <gavinandresen> gladoscc: ^^
4 2013-01-04 01:14:20 <gladoscc> gavinandresen: would ther be a way to do it through? if I wanted to use blockchain's APIs I wouldn't have implemented my own block explorer :)
5 2013-01-04 01:14:47 <gavinandresen> from bitcoind? No, bitcoind doesn't have an index of address --> transactions
6 2013-01-04 01:15:39 <gavinandresen> (it does keep an index of wallet addresses --> transactions, but most people don't care about arbitrary addresses)
7 2013-01-04 01:17:01 <sipa> does it?
8 2013-01-04 01:17:17 <sipa> i don't think so
9 2013-01-04 01:17:39 <gladoscc> Umm ok, guess I can't implement it then.
10 2013-01-04 01:17:52 <gavinandresen> sipa is right, it has to scan through all wallet transactions to figure out what is associated with each address
11 2013-01-04 01:17:55 <sipa> such an index may be added as something optional
12 2013-01-04 01:18:04 <sipa> but that's not priority now
13 2013-01-04 01:18:26 <stealth222> you can use bitcoin-abe. I also have an SQL database that I'm thinking about opensourcing
14 2013-01-04 01:23:43 <stealth222> many people would like these features - but bitcoind can't take care of all problems
15 2013-01-04 01:23:50 <stealth222> so it would be best to split it up into several projects
16 2013-01-04 01:23:56 <stealth222> each which tackles certain priorities
17 2013-01-04 01:25:10 <stealth222> the part of bitcoind that is probably most important from a "reference" standpoint is the verification/block chain engine piece
18 2013-01-04 01:25:28 <stealth222> script interpreter/block chain engine/relay
19 2013-01-04 01:25:56 <stealth222> the other components don't really require as much of a "reference" implementation - i.e. wallets, database
20 2013-01-04 01:28:42 <lianj> whats your point? that you shouldnt use bitcoind as a block explorer? :P thats known
21 2013-01-04 01:35:15 <gmaxwell> uh. Bitcoind (0.7.2) is a pretty great personal block explorer, except it doesn't index by address.
22 2013-01-04 01:36:32 <gladoscc> mhm. I personally think there should be a lite branch of bitcoind and a full branch
23 2013-01-04 01:36:53 <gladoscc> but we have 3rd party clients so.
24 2013-01-04 01:46:07 <gmaxwell> gladoscc: this isn't a "lite vs full" kind of thing??? the data you want is unneeded for what bitcoin itself does.
25 2013-01-04 01:46:29 <gmaxwell> it's of historical interest but its quite expensive to maintain.
26 2013-01-04 05:27:02 <stealth222> it would be nice if bitcoind had build options for storing additional indices, though
27 2013-01-04 05:27:23 <stealth222> or perhaps it's better to just create a completely separate project for that
28 2013-01-04 05:28:58 <stealth222> such functionality is needed for some applications - granted, it's not the most massive market...but pretty much all published solutions to these other things are one-man projects
29 2013-01-04 05:52:01 <jgarzik> <stealth222> it would be nice if bitcoind had build options for storing additional indices, though
30 2013-01-04 05:52:02 <jgarzik> sure
31 2013-01-04 05:52:06 <jgarzik> or a runtime option
32 2013-01-04 05:52:27 <jgarzik> sipa has mentioned an optional all-transactions index
33 2013-01-04 05:52:47 <jgarzik> the main detail is to avoid using memory and disk resources, when the optional index is disabled
34 2013-01-04 05:52:54 <jgarzik> taking up code space is less of an issue
35 2013-01-04 06:00:06 <stealth222> right - so a runtime option might be even better
36 2013-01-04 06:00:21 <stealth222> the user can have it create the index later without having to rebuild
37 2013-01-04 06:08:17 <jgarzik> chain-verf: 215083 records validated
38 2013-01-04 06:08:39 <jgarzik> that's with script verification disabled, all other verifications enabled
39 2013-01-04 06:09:22 <sipa> hmm, impressive :)
40 2013-01-04 06:10:25 <StarenseN> hello any1 can help me about a Mpex command ?
41 2013-01-04 06:12:50 <stealth222> jgarzik: is that just checking block headers?
42 2013-01-04 06:13:57 <stealth222> or you're also checking that inputs connect?
43 2013-01-04 06:16:38 <stealth222> so ECDSA_verify is the most expensive operation?
44 2013-01-04 06:17:22 <sipa> yes, certainly
45 2013-01-04 06:21:04 <jgarzik> stealth222: full block checking, not only headers
46 2013-01-04 06:21:21 <jgarzik> stealth222: build and check UTXO set
47 2013-01-04 06:21:47 <gmaxwell> script verification disabled probably also means skipping the script interperter and not only ECDSA, though ecdsa is most of the script checking time.
48 2013-01-04 06:22:23 <gmaxwell> sort of boggling how much faster that is than bitcoind.
49 2013-01-04 06:23:47 <sipa> does it build/write undo data?
50 2013-01-04 06:24:00 <stealth222> what program is this?
51 2013-01-04 06:24:16 <sipa> libccoin stuff
52 2013-01-04 06:25:05 <jgarzik> stealth222: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/ "chain-verf" is a libccoin test
53 2013-01-04 06:25:14 <stealth222> thanks
54 2013-01-04 06:25:35 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: correct. no script checking at all, not only ECDSA skipped.
55 2013-01-04 06:26:16 <jgarzik> sipa: no undo data
56 2013-01-04 06:26:48 <jgarzik> and all this is RAM-based. UTXO and block headers in RAM. no file I/O.
57 2013-01-04 06:27:36 <gmaxwell> what kind of data structure is the utxo set?
58 2013-01-04 06:28:27 <sipa> i think something can be gained with a better coinsviewcache still in bitcoind
59 2013-01-04 06:28:49 <sipa> right now, it's just a collection of entries, and when it gets too large, it's flushed to disk entirely
60 2013-01-04 06:28:53 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: GHashTable from GLib, (hash) -> (CCoin)
61 2013-01-04 06:29:03 <jgarzik> or CCoins, I always forget if it's plural
62 2013-01-04 06:30:00 <sipa> turning it into a MRU cache, which remembers which entried are dirty, should be better
63 2013-01-04 06:30:15 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: libccoin's bp_utxo data structure mimics bitcoind's: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/blob/master/include/ccoin/core.h#L172
64 2013-01-04 06:30:48 <sipa> jgarzik: CCoins as one represents several coins (different outputs of one tx)
65 2013-01-04 06:31:00 <jgarzik> I'll try to remember ;p
66 2013-01-04 06:31:31 <stealth222> what storage engine are you using? or is it all in memory?
67 2013-01-04 06:31:37 <eljefe_> Question - has anyone compiled any of the Linux miners with Intel compilers?
68 2013-01-04 06:32:19 <sipa> stealth222: all in memory
69 2013-01-04 06:32:28 <gmaxwell> eljefe_: cpuminers are uninteresting for two years now, but any sane ones have their inner loop in handcoded assembly in any case, the compiler shouldn't matter.
70 2013-01-04 06:32:33 <jgarzik> stealth222: file I/O is optional. right now just flat files are used. in the chain-verf test, file I/O is disabled.
71 2013-01-04 06:32:40 <jgarzik> for picocoin (the SPV client), file I/O is enabled.
72 2013-01-04 06:33:06 <jgarzik> I dislike all database choices equally
73 2013-01-04 06:33:10 <stealth222> hah
74 2013-01-04 06:33:20 <eljefe_> I ask because I have an Intel Xeon Phi coprocessor (PCIe 228 x86 cores, 6GB DDR5) to play with and I want to compile against Intel's MKL to get auto offload
75 2013-01-04 06:33:49 <eljefe_> ...at least see if it can perform like a GPU
76 2013-01-04 06:33:51 <gmaxwell> eljefe_: send the phi to me and I'll let you know how it goes.
77 2013-01-04 06:34:01 <eljefe_> :)
78 2013-01-04 06:34:39 <gmaxwell> eljefe_: is there an opencl implementation for it? if so ?????go get one of the opencl miners (perhaps phoenix would be easiest??? being that its a simple python wrapper) and kick it until it runs.
79 2013-01-04 06:35:15 <eljefe_> opencl isnt ready for it *yet*
80 2013-01-04 06:35:27 <gmaxwell> None of the old cpu miners are likely to be portable to it without a lot of work, and I'd expect none to get good throughput on phi without hard asm work, just to take advantage of the wider simd on phi.
81 2013-01-04 06:35:40 <eljefe_> ah..
82 2013-01-04 06:35:51 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: push your GHashTable in mmap. :P
83 2013-01-04 06:36:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: moving in that direction actually
84 2013-01-04 06:36:36 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: but making that crash-safe generally means throwing it away
85 2013-01-04 06:36:42 <jgarzik> (or a lot of work)
86 2013-01-04 06:36:49 <gmaxwell> save multiple snapshot of it.
87 2013-01-04 06:36:58 <gmaxwell> sssss
88 2013-01-04 06:37:09 <gmaxwell> snapshots. There we go.
89 2013-01-04 06:38:18 <jgarzik> "Pardon me while I perform a 400 MB memcpy(3)"
90 2013-01-04 06:39:17 <gmaxwell> feh. real men use the TLB to double map pages.
91 2013-01-04 06:39:58 <gmaxwell> but yea, the real problem isn't the memcpy its double the data on disk, though currently it should be small enough to do that.
92 2013-01-04 06:43:57 <gmaxwell> ACTION looks for ctrie implementations
93 2013-01-04 06:45:32 <gmaxwell> disks suck, dealing with the fact that torn writes hose whole sectors sucks.
94 2013-01-04 06:45:46 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: hehe, TLB is not far off
95 2013-01-04 06:47:10 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: one can do an mmap'd hash table... where the underlying pages are discontiguous. page update (write) creates a new page on disk. overwritten pages are aged out once likelihood of them not being in OS or disk cache is high.
96 2013-01-04 06:48:30 <jgarzik> not unlike the Tux3 filesystem
97 2013-01-04 06:58:53 <stealth222> how long before all persistent storage devices are solid state?
98 2013-01-04 07:03:56 <sipa> 42
99 2013-01-04 07:04:04 <Scrat> stealth222: magnetic recording still has a lot of room to improve
100 2013-01-04 07:04:06 <Scrat> not soon :p
101 2013-01-04 07:05:25 <Scrat> NAND will hit a wall at 10nm
102 2013-01-04 07:05:56 <Scrat> memristors/phase change from then. but will they be ready for prime time?
103 2013-01-04 07:11:48 <stealth222> memristor tech doesn't seem too far off
104 2013-01-04 07:13:55 <stealth222> but hard disks are super cheap nowadays
105 2013-01-04 07:14:33 <stealth222> they suck - but they are cheap, ubiquitous, abundant
106 2013-01-04 07:23:07 <Scrat> it will happen in the mainstream though
107 2013-01-04 07:23:29 <Scrat> 1 TB is good enough for most users and cheap SSDs will get there in a couple of years
108 2013-01-04 07:23:51 <Scrat> combined with the trend to thin clients and the "cloud" (fuck I hate that word)
109 2013-01-04 07:23:59 <stealth222> heh
110 2013-01-04 07:25:06 <stealth222> It's funny when I talk to not-super-technical people about storage and they just say "why don't you just put it the cloud?"
111 2013-01-04 07:26:40 <stealth222> as if the universe just provides an infinite, random-access storage medium that doesn't require huge amounts of energy and manpower to operate and maintain
112 2013-01-04 07:27:55 <stealth222> but yeah, I suppose consumer devices are already moving away from disks to SSD
113 2013-01-04 07:28:06 <stealth222> serverside, disks still rule, I suppose
114 2013-01-04 07:32:14 <Scrat> for raw storage sure
115 2013-01-04 07:32:35 <Scrat> if you want to push IOPS you'd be a fool not to use SSDs
116 2013-01-04 07:33:06 <Scrat> enterprise SSDs don't break. they are very reliable
117 2013-01-04 07:34:40 <Scrat> they're awesome as a caching layer for disk arrays too. ZFS L2ARC is a great example of this
118 2013-01-04 07:38:06 <phantomcircuit> stealth222, as FTTH becomes more common "put it in the cloud" wont sound as ridiculous
119 2013-01-04 07:38:19 <phantomcircuit> 1 gbps ~= sequential write on a conventional hdd
120 2013-01-04 07:43:16 <Scrat> phantomcircuit: it's the latency that kills it so it will only be used for sequential workloads
121 2013-01-04 07:43:51 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, latency to first hop is roughly on par with disk rotational latencies
122 2013-01-04 07:44:01 <phantomcircuit> 10ms vs 3-10ms
123 2013-01-04 07:44:24 <Scrat> true. although that would require edge servers on every ISP
124 2013-01-04 07:44:31 <phantomcircuit> ping google.com i bet you have latency < 15ms
125 2013-01-04 07:45:43 <phantomcircuit> dropbox and friends are all going to lose to the first player that colos within residential isp regional centers
126 2013-01-04 07:45:55 <phantomcircuit> which im guessing is going to be google drive
127 2013-01-04 07:46:26 <phantomcircuit> they already have enough fiber interconnects to support something like that without any major built out and oh what is this they're doing ftth also?
128 2013-01-04 07:47:39 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, i just blew your mind bro
129 2013-01-04 07:47:43 <phantomcircuit> *pow*
130 2013-01-04 07:49:34 <Scrat> ACTION pow
131 2013-01-04 07:49:40 <Scrat> ACTION 'd
132 2013-01-04 07:51:47 <Scrat> but there is someone who already is less than 10ms away from 99% of residential connections in the world
133 2013-01-04 07:54:04 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, local host?
134 2013-01-04 07:54:05 <phantomcircuit> lol
135 2013-01-04 07:54:14 <Scrat> akamai
136 2013-01-04 07:54:28 <phantomcircuit> hmm maybe
137 2013-01-04 07:55:07 <phantomcircuit> write caching is a much harder problem to solve than read caching though
138 2013-01-04 07:55:26 <phantomcircuit> i sort of doubt they have anywhere near the hardware to actually even attempt a solution
139 2013-01-04 07:57:32 <Scrat> edge serving static content is on a different league than having a remote hard drive for sure
140 2013-01-04 07:57:48 <Scrat> or well, vice versa
141 2013-01-04 07:57:55 <Scrat> too much coffeine
142 2013-01-04 07:59:31 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, i can tell you from experience write caching is an absolute bitch to get right
143 2013-01-04 07:59:35 <phantomcircuit> and when you think i've done it
144 2013-01-04 07:59:37 <phantomcircuit> WRONG
145 2013-01-04 08:03:18 <Scrat> :)
146 2013-01-04 11:10:49 <Luke-Jr> anyone interested in investigating a potential DoS exploit? (not yet confirmed, so just polling for interest)
147 2013-01-04 11:13:37 <t7> meee
148 2013-01-04 11:19:22 <GMP> http://www.ovh.ie/dedicated_servers/kimsufi_special_edition.xml 2TB hdd dedicateted server
149 2013-01-04 11:19:52 <GMP> 10 eur/mo. good deal for new projects
150 2013-01-04 11:21:24 <SomeoneWeird> wow
151 2013-01-04 11:31:57 <GMP> i know there is Moore's "law" and space/bandwidth prices should keep falling, but thats well beyond the curve, imho
152 2013-01-04 11:33:10 <GMP> 2^64 ipv6's ;)
153 2013-01-04 11:33:14 <sipa> Luke-Jr: eh, sure
154 2013-01-04 11:38:59 <MagicalTux> Luke-Jr: tell me more
155 2013-01-04 11:40:22 <valparaiso_> Ovh have always been way under average market price. 10 years ago, they already were watercooling their datacenters and selling the heat to the town of roubaix. Their Hw offers seem to be financed by their hosted services. (Been with them since 2004 or something)
156 2013-01-04 11:40:48 <valparaiso_> Now: ovh's support sucks, if you compare with, for ex. Rackspace.
157 2013-01-04 11:41:51 <GMP> lol, rackspace... who needs support if you can netboot
158 2013-01-04 11:42:55 <Scrat> when a hardware component fails
159 2013-01-04 11:42:57 <Scrat> you need support
160 2013-01-04 11:43:44 <Scrat> softlayer once replaced a bad drive in a few minutes for me
161 2013-01-04 11:43:47 <Scrat> you get what you pay for
162 2013-01-04 11:44:26 <GMP> agreed, but at a price softlayer asks you can order multiple servers at ovh
163 2013-01-04 11:45:47 <Scrat> its all a matter of compromise. can you afford to stay offline or not. in most cases the server costs are a tiny percentage of the entire business
164 2013-01-04 11:46:54 <Scrat> if you're selling razor thin margin VPS softlayer will be horrible for you
165 2013-01-04 11:53:22 <stealth222> what's the DoS exploit?
166 2013-01-04 11:59:42 <Luke-Jr> MagicalTux: sipa: looking more like something going crazy with postgres at this point, still not sure if bitcoind was involved :/
167 2013-01-04 14:18:24 <t7> whats that VM you guys use for win builds?
168 2013-01-04 14:19:30 <sipa> gitian?
169 2013-01-04 14:19:39 <t7> ah yes
170 2013-01-04 14:19:42 <sipa> running under lxc or kvm
171 2013-01-04 14:36:16 <gmaxwell> sipa: should level 3 remember the number of txouts available for each step, and level 4 check that number? Mostly I'm thinking about the top-most block. If its txouts didn't all make it into the coins database due to a poorly timed shutdown+atomiticty fail, it still might undo fine. Though redoing it would result in a different number of transactions.
172 2013-01-04 15:01:20 <gigavps> is it normal for debug.log to show a lot of errors when first loading up the blockchain?
173 2013-01-04 15:02:56 <gmaxwell> There are some cases where it says error which are normal especially during the initial blockchain download, yes. What are you seeing?
174 2013-01-04 15:03:33 <gigavps> ORPHAN BLOCK
175 2013-01-04 15:03:44 <gigavps> prev tx not found
176 2013-01-04 15:04:01 <gmaxwell> Yes, those are normal and expected during the ibd.
177 2013-01-04 15:04:09 <gigavps> cool, thanks
178 2013-01-04 15:04:50 <gigavps> would you say this is a good way to setup bitcoind -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=965.msg349040#msg349040
179 2013-01-04 15:05:25 <gmaxwell> I wouldn't use 0.3.24! :P
180 2013-01-04 15:06:42 <gigavps> lol
181 2013-01-04 15:06:45 <gigavps> with 0.7.2
182 2013-01-04 15:06:48 <gigavps> lol
183 2013-01-04 15:06:52 <gmaxwell> thats basically how I have mine setup, though my bitcoinds all have their rpcs on other ports because I'm running many of them. I've never had cause to change my rpctimeout.
184 2013-01-04 15:07:09 <gigavps> kk
185 2013-01-04 15:08:39 <gigavps> i was going to restrict access to 8332 via iptables instead of bitcoind conf, this seem reasonable? is there any reason to use the conf over iptables?
186 2013-01-04 15:09:04 <Luke-Jr> gigavps: by default, it only binds RPC on localhost anyway
187 2013-01-04 15:09:40 <Luke-Jr> gigavps: most OS today have some kind of proper package for bitcoind
188 2013-01-04 15:09:55 <Luke-Jr> which would be better
189 2013-01-04 15:10:10 <gmaxwell> Belt and suspenders. If that daemon has a wallet and _something_ screws up the iptables setting (E.g. you're debugging and you flush it) and you've otherwise exposed the rpc, you're totally @#$@#ed.
190 2013-01-04 15:10:24 <Luke-Jr> eg for ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
191 2013-01-04 15:10:27 <gmaxwell> So if you can reasonably use the daemon's rpc filtering I think you should too.
192 2013-01-04 15:11:21 <gmaxwell> I run seperate nodes for mining and for facing the public. The rationale is that having a ton of connections to potentially slow peers can really slow down bitcoind. So my mining nodes connect to each other, and to my public nodes.. and a couple of 'trusted' external nodes (e.g. one of luke's nodes, jeff's public nodes, etc) each.
193 2013-01-04 15:11:49 <gmaxwell> (the multiple nodes also let me test new versions without disrupting everything)
194 2013-01-04 15:12:35 <Luke-Jr> gigavps: otoh, if you're going to be applying those bitcoind patches I mentioned a few weeks ago, you'll have to build from source anyway
195 2013-01-04 15:13:39 <gigavps> Luke-Jr i have the src folder so i can just replace it with a git clone of the 0.7.2 tag and apply the patches
196 2013-01-04 15:13:44 <Diapolo> Anyone having display problems with Github recently? I see text under the "Discussion" tab, but "Commits" and "Files Changed" won't load...
197 2013-01-04 15:14:07 <Luke-Jr> gigavps: that won't update the binaries from the package, note
198 2013-01-04 15:14:28 <gigavps> ahhh
199 2013-01-04 15:14:54 <gigavps> well, i'm most of the way there
200 2013-01-04 15:15:24 <gigavps> my poor little server is being crushed with the blk chain download
201 2013-01-04 15:18:18 <Diapolo> No one?
202 2013-01-04 16:00:53 <TD> does anyone know anything about http://btchip.com/ ?
203 2013-01-04 16:24:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: disconnectblock verifies that a tx being disconnected results in its exact txouts being removed
204 2013-01-04 16:33:53 <Tykling> is there an rpc command to move btc from one account to another in bitcoind ?
205 2013-01-04 16:34:01 <Tykling> do I just send to the address of the other account ?
206 2013-01-04 16:34:29 <andytoshi> Tykling: yes
207 2013-01-04 16:34:39 <jgarzik> Tykling: yes the "move" RPC command
208 2013-01-04 16:35:23 <andytoshi> you can't move btc meaningfully without informing the network
209 2013-01-04 16:35:34 <andytoshi> what does 'move' do, jgarzik?
210 2013-01-04 16:35:37 <Tykling> jgarzik: hah, ofcourse I don't know how I missed that, thanks :)
211 2013-01-04 16:37:17 <jgarzik> andytoshi: it makes an accounting entry, without touching the network
212 2013-01-04 16:38:34 <andytoshi> oh, okay, i thought "accounts" were just lists of addresses
213 2013-01-04 16:39:50 <sipa> addresses are associated with accounts, so that incoming transactions increase the balance of the right account
214 2013-01-04 16:40:07 <sipa> but they are unrelated to addresses otherwise
215 2013-01-04 16:40:18 <sipa> just virtual balances
216 2013-01-04 16:46:03 <gavinandresen> sipa: I just noticed that the gettxout RPC call spit out integer "amount" ... which is inconsistent with all of the other "amount"s in the RPC. Was that on purpose and/or discussed?
217 2013-01-04 17:05:54 <Matt_von_Mises> I'm not sure on the exact way the satoshi client manages the transaction index. During a reorganisation, I'm assuming transactions are removed from the index. But what about transactions that are overwritten as allowed by BIP30? There would need to be some form of count to remember the number of instances of that transaction.
218 2013-01-04 17:08:46 <gmaxwell> Matt_von_Mises: No, BIP30 specifically forbids overwriting an unspent transaction precisely because there is no such count.
219 2013-01-04 17:11:56 <Matt_von_Mises> gmaxwell: Yes but what about the spent transactions? When reorganising, a problem would occur as to know when to remove the transaction from the index (You do not want to remove it for earlier instances during reorganisation because you'd still want to to refer to unspent outputs which would be re-added during re-organisation). The way that came to my mind is to keep count of the number of instances and delete the transaction from the index
220 2013-01-04 17:12:49 <Matt_von_Mises> So does bitcoin keep transactions in the index forever or something? I thought it didn't and I saw nothing in the BIP30 code that seemed to deal with this. Or maybe I'm tired and not thinking straight.
221 2013-01-04 17:12:56 <gmaxwell> The satoshi doesn't index them at all anymore.
222 2013-01-04 17:13:15 <gmaxwell> (spent transactions)
223 2013-01-04 17:14:21 <gmaxwell> If unspent outputs that consumed it were readded then it itself was unspent.
224 2013-01-04 17:15:42 <Matt_von_Mises> gmaxwell: So upon re-adding an unspent output that makes a transaction unspent, it does what? Look through the entire block-chain for the transaction?
225 2013-01-04 17:16:12 <Matt_von_Mises> Oh, I'm guessing this is something those undo files are for
226 2013-01-04 17:16:40 <Matt_von_Mises> I'm not too familiar with the new "ultraprune" stuff.
227 2013-01-04 17:16:49 <gmaxwell> Yes, thats what the undo files are for.
228 2013-01-04 17:17:26 <Matt_von_Mises> OK thanks, I better be off.
229 2013-01-04 17:26:20 <TD> bitpay works very well these days
230 2013-01-04 17:26:26 <TD> it's a while since i last used them
231 2013-01-04 17:42:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: never thought about it really
232 2013-01-04 17:42:34 <sipa> i don't mind changimg that for consistencu
233 2013-01-04 17:42:56 <gavinandresen> sipa: great
234 2013-01-04 17:46:54 <gavinandresen> sipa: also with the gettxout: "scriptPubKey" isn't consistent with the decoderawtransaction output, it is missing "type" "addresses" and "reqSigs" keys
235 2013-01-04 17:48:10 <sipa> ok
236 2013-01-04 17:49:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: did i answer your question about step 3 remembering counts for step 4?
237 2013-01-04 17:49:52 <gmaxwell> Yes! And I didn't believe you and went and checked. And it looks good.
238 2013-01-04 17:52:50 <sipa> ha
239 2013-01-04 18:21:13 <promile> hallo
240 2013-01-04 18:22:54 <jgarzik> ni hao
241 2013-01-04 18:42:04 <MC1984> j
242 2013-01-04 18:47:53 <andytoshi> k
243 2013-01-04 18:48:03 <grau> l
244 2013-01-04 18:48:07 <sipa> m
245 2013-01-04 18:49:02 <Cusipzzz> n
246 2013-01-04 18:50:56 <MC1984> wow and i get ahouted at for off topic
247 2013-01-04 18:51:32 <sipa> we were reciting the characters in base58 encoding... how can that be off-topic?
248 2013-01-04 18:52:28 <sipa> oh, l isn't
249 2013-01-04 18:52:29 <sipa> :)
250 2013-01-04 18:53:02 <MC1984> i wouldnt know either way#
251 2013-01-04 18:53:14 <grau> you figured before computing the checksum?
252 2013-01-04 18:53:58 <MC1984> ok since the -dev police is asleep
253 2013-01-04 18:54:22 <MC1984> anyone good at looking up chemical hazards and protective equipment?
254 2013-01-04 18:54:37 <MC1984> i want to handle nitromethane
255 2013-01-04 18:55:23 <MC1984> i ask in here becuae you guys are probbly the cleverest people i know on the internet right now
256 2013-01-04 18:56:27 <MC1984> sorry for the typing, ive read that ethanol counters methanol poisoning so im drnining vokda
257 2013-01-04 18:57:03 <sipa> you drank methanol?
258 2013-01-04 18:57:08 <MC1984> nono
259 2013-01-04 18:57:31 <MC1984> i may have got some on my skin or inhaled some fumes, but i dont think o
260 2013-01-04 18:57:34 <MC1984> but im paranoid
261 2013-01-04 18:57:57 <MC1984> tl;dr i bought a 2 stroke RCcar and it runs on nitromethane
262 2013-01-04 18:58:57 <andytoshi> MC1984: you'll be fine, just wash the affected area
263 2013-01-04 18:59:04 <andytoshi> also, nitromethane is not like methanol
264 2013-01-04 18:59:15 <MC1984> its 16% nitro
265 2013-01-04 18:59:21 <MC1984> so the rest is methanol
266 2013-01-04 18:59:41 <andytoshi> is that right? i forget that "methane" means "methXXX" in marketingspeak
267 2013-01-04 18:59:56 <andytoshi> like "methylene chloride" is actually dichloromethane
268 2013-01-04 19:00:26 <andytoshi> in any case, i once splilt KOH suspended in methanol on my hand
269 2013-01-04 19:00:28 <sipa> methane is not methanol]
270 2013-01-04 19:00:41 <andytoshi> the base tore open the skin in seconds, and i ran to the bathroom to wash it off
271 2013-01-04 19:00:51 <andytoshi> i had a rash for a month or so, but i've been fine since
272 2013-01-04 19:01:29 <andytoshi> if you were poisoned, you wouldn't be typing right now
273 2013-01-04 19:01:32 <andytoshi> so you're fine
274 2013-01-04 19:02:03 <MC1984> i have other health issues that seem to be uduly exacerbated by chemical exposure
275 2013-01-04 19:02:13 <andytoshi> if you were to drink methanol (say, in homemade "hard liquor") you'd be blind in a minute or so, dead within ten
276 2013-01-04 19:02:31 <andytoshi> in any case, check wikipedia for a MSDS
277 2013-01-04 19:02:37 <MC1984> MSDS?
278 2013-01-04 19:02:40 <andytoshi> or, one should have come with the racecar kit
279 2013-01-04 19:02:52 <andytoshi> material safety data sheet -- it contains a wealth of information
280 2013-01-04 19:03:08 <andytoshi> and one exists for most any chemical you will encounter
281 2013-01-04 19:03:16 <MC1984> http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0522.htm i think this is it?
282 2013-01-04 19:03:34 <andytoshi> looks right
283 2013-01-04 19:04:03 <MC1984> if im gonna lvel with you guys,, the problem is that i have tinnitus which i struggle with every day, and i concider it of paramount importance that it not get any worse
284 2013-01-04 19:04:41 <andytoshi> if you were outside when this happened, you will be OK
285 2013-01-04 19:04:48 <MC1984> so it turns out methanol is neurotoxic somewhat and maybe im a bit paranoid
286 2013-01-04 19:05:05 <andytoshi> yes, methanol is very very toxic, but this is not methanol
287 2013-01-04 19:05:13 <MC1984> yeah outside,i also had vinyl gloves on
288 2013-01-04 19:05:26 <andytoshi> the MSDS says you might get a rash if you spill it on your skin, that's all
289 2013-01-04 19:05:39 <andytoshi> if you were outside using racecar amounts, there is no risk of inhalation
290 2013-01-04 19:05:43 <MC1984> this fuel i have is 16% nitro so i thought the rest is methanol?
291 2013-01-04 19:06:05 <MC1984> the fueltank on this little thing is like 75ml so its a small amunt lol
292 2013-01-04 19:06:19 <andytoshi> i doubt it's methanol, but i dunno
293 2013-01-04 19:06:30 <andytoshi> i think it's 16% CH3NO2, the rest solvent
294 2013-01-04 19:07:12 <MC1984> "In model aircraft and car glow fuel, the primary ingredient is generally methanol with some nitromethane (0% to 65%, but rarely over 30%. "
295 2013-01-04 19:07:15 <MC1984> wiki
296 2013-01-04 19:07:26 <andytoshi> oh, there ya go, it is methanol
297 2013-01-04 19:07:30 <andytoshi> but even so, you're okay
298 2013-01-04 19:07:40 <andytoshi> it was a very small amount, you didn't consume it, and you didn't inhale it
299 2013-01-04 19:07:41 <MC1984> yeah im cool
300 2013-01-04 19:07:46 <MC1984> i just got to chill the fuck out
301 2013-01-04 19:07:57 <andytoshi> i promise you'll be fine :)
302 2013-01-04 19:08:26 <jgarzik> MC1984: drink some, to balance exterior and interior exposure!
303 2013-01-04 19:08:34 <MC1984> i wouldnt be tweaking over it, but as i said ive noticed chemical sensitivity since i got tinnitus
304 2013-01-04 19:08:40 <MC1984> sucks more balls than you can imagine
305 2013-01-04 19:08:58 <jgarzik> loud punk rock cures tinnitus
306 2013-01-04 19:09:23 <MC1984> ha yeah while youre there
307 2013-01-04 19:09:29 <MC1984> when you go home, oh boy
308 2013-01-04 19:10:02 <MC1984> i couldnt eve get the damn thing started, it coughed once
309 2013-01-04 19:10:29 <MC1984> i just wanted something cool for me and my lil bro to dick around with
310 2013-01-04 19:14:57 <owowo> the more u talk about tinnitus, the more u pay attention to it and the more u read about it on the internet, the worse it is. exercise, fresh air and learning some meditation technique help
311 2013-01-04 19:15:31 <MC1984> yeh
312 2013-01-04 19:15:38 <MC1984> it gets worse with stress mianly
313 2013-01-04 19:15:50 <MC1984> its my personal demon
314 2013-01-04 19:16:23 <jgarzik> Had it all my life. It frustrated me to the point of tears when I was 9 years old, but it is now just background noise.
315 2013-01-04 19:16:48 <owowo> and make it ur friend, like when u can't sleep or someone is annoying u, just concentrate on that nice 10khz sound in ur head
316 2013-01-04 19:16:57 <MC1984> yeah ive learned to livewith it 95% of the time
317 2013-01-04 19:16:58 <jgarzik> It just Would Not Go Away.
318 2013-01-04 19:17:22 <MC1984> sometimes it is literally like a rape alarm, and thats when i get the headaches
319 2013-01-04 19:17:43 <gmaxwell> some people have surgery to deaden it. though it harms your hearing too and isn't always successful.
320 2013-01-04 19:17:57 <MC1984> sometimes triggers a panic attack,its not a good feeling for a man
321 2013-01-04 19:18:15 <MC1984> nah im not at the point of getting my inner ear scraped out lol
322 2013-01-04 19:18:35 <owowo> surgery does not help, because it is not in the ears it is a feedback-loop in ur brain
323 2013-01-04 19:18:52 <jgarzik> I had a ton of ear infections as a toddler. Pretty sure that was the cause. My hearing is surprisingly good when I'm concentrating on hearing tests, but I doubt surgery would fix much.
324 2013-01-04 19:18:55 <MC1984> yeah, i do have hearing damage too
325 2013-01-04 19:19:08 <gmaxwell> There are different causes of tinnitus.
326 2013-01-04 19:19:10 <MC1984> im missing 2-6khz in my right ear
327 2013-01-04 19:19:30 <MC1984> so its loss induced
328 2013-01-04 19:20:48 <owowo> it's even more fun when it come with hyperacusis
329 2013-01-04 19:20:51 <owowo> ;o)
330 2013-01-04 19:21:07 <MC1984> yeah my hearing is normal apart from the 4khz total loss on one side which ive had since a child, but the rinigng only got bad about 4 years ago after i tried a course of prozac, it just went mental
331 2013-01-04 19:21:52 <MC1984> so now im paranoid lol
332 2013-01-04 19:21:59 <owowo> lol
333 2013-01-04 19:22:18 <owowo> and i feel that pressure in my ears
334 2013-01-04 19:22:43 <MC1984> yeah i had that and the hyperacusis fo the first two years
335 2013-01-04 19:22:57 <MC1984> i had to put ear plugs in to go shopping
336 2013-01-04 19:31:58 <casasciu_> interesting... I am not sure that ethanol will properly counteract methanol in this case. The way I understand it, methanol itself isn't the poison, it's what the liver converts methanol in to. getting drunk ties up the resource that would convert the methanol
337 2013-01-04 19:32:18 <casasciu_> giving it a chance to be excreted from the body without the dangerous conversion
338 2013-01-04 19:34:17 <MC1984> yeah thats what i read
339 2013-01-04 19:34:37 <MC1984> the etharol ties up the enzymes that wouldconvert methanol to formic acid
340 2013-01-04 19:34:59 <MC1984> and formic acid is bad
341 2013-01-04 19:35:37 <MC1984> the usual indication for proper methanol poisoniong is an alcohol IV
342 2013-01-04 19:36:06 <MC1984> but in leiu i thought bottle of 80 proof vodka lol
343 2013-01-04 19:36:46 <MC1984> i should probably not try and pretend im House though
344 2013-01-04 19:37:30 <casasciu_> that sucks to have that
345 2013-01-04 21:07:36 <dezzzdan> PURCHASE BITCOINS RIGHT NOW INSTANTLY WITH YOUR DEBIT/CREDIT CARD AND PAYPAL GO TO WWW.BITCOINBERUDECHANGE.COM
346 2013-01-04 21:13:37 <gmaxwell> Why freenode lets their web gateway get buy normally crafted IP blocks is beyond me.
347 2013-01-04 21:14:10 <gmaxwell> Obviously BITCOINBERUDECHANGE is a scam run by idiots. I advise against even loading the domain, as eventually they'll find some browser exploit to put there.
348 2013-01-04 21:14:37 <ThomasV> ACTION can't refrain
349 2013-01-04 21:15:47 <ThomasV> "2332 Cotner Ave, Los Angeles, CA, 90064" seems legit
350 2013-01-04 21:23:10 <ThomasV> I tried it. entered an incorrect bitcoin address. it did not complain :)
351 2013-01-04 21:28:41 <MC1984> isnt that that housewith 50000 businesses registered in it
352 2013-01-04 21:36:31 <ThomasV> hmm, they have someone answering question on their webchat.
353 2013-01-04 21:36:37 <ThomasV> (not a bot)
354 2013-01-04 23:59:29 <gribble> Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
355 2013-01-04 23:59:55 <sipa> ?