1 2013-02-08 00:00:33 <MC1984> wallet.dat stores the last known balances of the privkeys it holds rigght?
2 2013-02-08 00:01:29 <MC1984> but its not essential they be updated, say if you like sending coins to an offline wallet you dont really need to update your backups all the time for that
3 2013-02-08 03:28:56 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: delete my sigs from the repo if they are standing out
4 2013-02-08 03:29:06 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: Im pretty sure they do, so thats why my win32s arent there yet
5 2013-02-08 03:29:16 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: what's your win32 installer hash?
6 2013-02-08 03:29:31 <Luke-Jr> 6761ee95da86c1eb354ca7858b49061f0a39702a3d7ec6fe1b91140e329c7590 bitcoin-0.8.0-win32-setup.exe
7 2013-02-08 03:30:37 <BlueMatt> 01e3f140ce4cf0dd6e6d75fddb65fca69acb115f56caba26258472c69720ebe2 bitcoin-0.8.0-win32-setup.exe
8 2013-02-08 03:30:47 <Luke-Jr> oh well
9 2013-02-08 03:31:06 <Luke-Jr> seems gitian is falling apart :<
10 2013-02-08 03:31:42 <BlueMatt> ACTION blames a combination of differences between lxc and kvm, and my use of arch, which has really terrible/weird qemu/kvm packages
11 2013-02-08 03:31:49 <muhoo> sheesh, computers weres supposed to save labor, eh?
12 2013-02-08 03:32:06 <BlueMatt> but...yes, gitian has been very flaky for the past few releases
13 2013-02-08 03:32:29 <BlueMatt> if anyone shows significant desire to ever merge auto-update, then it will need to be investigated
14 2013-02-08 03:52:54 <muhoo> wait https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/info/refs is 404?
15 2013-02-08 04:45:56 <MC1984> was there ever proof that different dbcache values significantly affected chain download time?
16 2013-02-08 05:02:12 <gmaxwell> MC1984: sure, it's obviously faster if you make the cache bigger than the whole database, for example.
17 2013-02-08 05:02:50 <Luke-Jr> ce99358 Remove IsFromMe() check in CTxMemPool::accept() <-- that was super-painful to backport :/
18 2013-02-08 05:02:57 <MC1984> which database, the chain or the index or something?
19 2013-02-08 05:06:05 <gmaxwell> MC1984: *
20 2013-02-08 05:06:10 <jgarzik> ACTION tries to recall why his eloipool solo mining failed
21 2013-02-08 05:06:34 <jgarzik> really just need to update pushpool to modern times
22 2013-02-08 05:06:37 <MC1984> what?
23 2013-02-08 05:06:39 <gmaxwell> MC1984: setting it to e.g. 4gb made it obviously faster.
24 2013-02-08 05:07:20 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: really with a gbt supporting miner there is no need to shim in a silly little private pool just to make things work.
25 2013-02-08 05:08:08 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: cgminer claims "GBT support" but not bitcoind's flavor
26 2013-02-08 05:10:55 <MC1984> anyone see my little q about the wallet above?
27 2013-02-08 05:20:02 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: oh yeah. My miner was receiving '401 not authorized' errors from eloipool. Seemed quite strange, as the username is a btc address, and the password is <anything>
28 2013-02-08 05:20:10 <jgarzik> That's why eloipool failed for me.
29 2013-02-08 05:58:17 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: that should only happen if the username casts to false O.o
30 2013-02-08 05:59:02 <Luke-Jr> maybe wireshark it?
31 2013-02-08 06:46:19 <Guest59167> Hey guys, I'm looking to toy around with the client api. I want to run a lightweight client so that I dont have to download the entire blockchain. Any suggestions? Running on linux btw
32 2013-02-08 10:51:25 <bitnumus> are there any Testnet web wallets?
33 2013-02-08 10:55:31 <SomeoneWeird> don't think so
34 2013-02-08 10:56:25 <zveda> hey is there a network limited on bitcoin-qt?
35 2013-02-08 10:56:28 <zveda> limiter
36 2013-02-08 10:56:31 <zveda> i wanna limit my upload speed
37 2013-02-08 10:56:44 <zveda> because my ISP here in aus is very stringy with upload
38 2013-02-08 10:56:48 <zveda> stingy
39 2013-02-08 10:59:19 <Scrat> if you're on linux, you can use tc to limit the entire interface or iptables to set a per port limit (not 100% sure of this tho)
40 2013-02-08 11:00:46 <Scrat> check your router. some routers can do traffic shaping in their QoS settings
41 2013-02-08 11:21:19 <bitnumus> hmm, i rmember messing with testnet before and made a real hash of my bitoin-qt install
42 2013-02-08 11:21:28 <bitnumus> im sure someone has a web wallet for it
43 2013-02-08 11:21:34 <bitnumus> Luke-Jr,
44 2013-02-08 11:46:28 <HM> http://fmota.eu/blog/base64-fixed-point.html
45 2013-02-08 11:46:44 <HM> I just found the most awesome way to generate a bitcoin address :P
46 2013-02-08 11:48:55 <moarrr> HM: tl;dr ?
47 2013-02-08 11:52:47 <HM> moarrr: repeatedly encoding any string as base64 results in the same output
48 2013-02-08 11:52:53 <HM> well the same prefix anyway
49 2013-02-08 11:53:24 <HM> it probably doesn't work for base58
50 2013-02-08 11:57:04 <sipa> is rc1 tagged already?
51 2013-02-08 11:57:39 <Scrat> yes
52 2013-02-08 11:57:48 <Scrat> but they can't get gitian builds to match
53 2013-02-08 11:57:57 <SomeoneWeird> lollllll
54 2013-02-08 12:00:04 <Scrat> sup SomeoneWeird
55 2013-02-08 12:00:15 <SomeoneWeird> hai
56 2013-02-08 13:32:28 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: is it possible that eloipool is passing 401 from bitcoind back to workers?
57 2013-02-08 14:05:11 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: no, that shouldn't be possible
58 2013-02-08 14:05:22 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: if bitcoind is 401ing, I don't think it'd work at all
59 2013-02-08 14:05:30 <Luke-Jr> at least at startup
60 2013-02-08 14:05:44 <Luke-Jr> at runtime, it'd probably keep issuing work on the last successful template
61 2013-02-08 14:14:38 <webuser3232> At some point of bitcoind development are you guys considering adding more api commands to what there's at present ... I'm thinking having this https://blockchain.info/api/blockchain_api would be sweet
62 2013-02-08 14:14:46 <webuser3232> ?
63 2013-02-08 14:15:04 <webuser3232> no need using 3rd services
64 2013-02-08 14:15:23 <webuser3232> 3rd party
65 2013-02-08 14:52:03 <sipa> webuser3232: what rpc in particular would you need?
66 2013-02-08 14:54:58 <webuser3232> sipa, http://blockchain.info/tx-index/$tx_index?format=json as it lets me extract 'from' address(es)
67 2013-02-08 14:57:45 <webuser3232> overview is under 'Single Transaction' here https://blockchain.info/api/blockchain_api
68 2013-02-08 15:02:28 <HM> ACTION jumps on webuser3232 like he's a live grenade
69 2013-02-08 15:02:37 <HM> don't say the f word!
70 2013-02-08 15:05:23 <webuser3232> ACTION is bamboozled
71 2013-02-08 15:05:36 <webuser3232> HM, what's wrong with the f word?
72 2013-02-08 15:06:18 <webuser3232> I think having this functionality in the client would be great
73 2013-02-08 15:07:04 <webuser3232> I can see many uses and not ncecessairly thinking satoshidice
74 2013-02-08 15:25:33 <HM> webuser3232: i was schooled on from addresses the other day, apparently it's a bad idea generally
75 2013-02-08 15:26:14 <webuser3232> HM, mind sharing the knowledge?
76 2013-02-08 15:26:41 <epscy> i would like to hear this too
77 2013-02-08 15:27:19 <HM> one sec
78 2013-02-08 15:31:11 <HM> ACTION sips his tea
79 2013-02-08 15:31:56 <HM> I wouldn't do the reasoning justice. I guess the simplest answer is that bitcoin transactions are designed to be valid based on the evaluation of some arbitrary script.
80 2013-02-08 15:32:53 <HM> also you can't be certain that whoever sent you funds was acting directly and even knows their address
81 2013-02-08 15:33:02 <moarrr> :/
82 2013-02-08 15:33:15 <HM> Someone else can chime in an explain it more thoroughly
83 2013-02-08 15:38:39 <webuser3232> yeah but the information is there so why don't make it easy to get out... all the excuses make it a little bit like trying to outsmart the users
84 2013-02-08 15:39:01 <gavinandresen> webuser3232 : you can get the list of all the prior transactions that went into a transaction using 'getrawtransaction'
85 2013-02-08 15:39:18 <gavinandresen> but assuming that one of those outputs belongs to the person who received the money in the transaction is a really bad idea.
86 2013-02-08 15:40:33 <gavinandresen> Your code will break horribly if, for example, somebody constructs a transaction that spends outputs that are not "addresses" that you understand
87 2013-02-08 15:41:27 <gavinandresen> It will also break for anybody sending from InstaWallet or Mt.Gox or most of the other shared-wallet services.
88 2013-02-08 15:42:17 <gavinandresen> And, I suspect soon, will break for transactions that combine multiple inputs from multiple users to enhance privacy and foil nosy people who want to know where your money is coming from.
89 2013-02-08 15:43:02 <webuser3232> gavinandresen, but can't those things be worked out? this seems to me as an amazing functionality
90 2013-02-08 15:43:10 <gavinandresen> what is your use case?
91 2013-02-08 15:43:20 <phantomcircuit> inb4 gambling
92 2013-02-08 15:43:42 <webuser3232> not gambling
93 2013-02-08 15:44:02 <webuser3232> I'd like to not to ask users for returning address
94 2013-02-08 15:44:29 <gavinandresen> that's completely reasonable. But using information in the raw blockchain transaction isn't the right way to get that.
95 2013-02-08 15:44:39 <gavinandresen> unfortunately, the right way isn't implemented yet...
96 2013-02-08 15:44:44 <HM> presumably if you want to know when a specific customer pays you, you need to generate a brand new wallet for each payment?
97 2013-02-08 15:44:54 <HM> to receive the funds
98 2013-02-08 15:44:55 <egecko> the sender would have to preallocate a return address and attach it somehow to the transaction, no?
99 2013-02-08 15:45:15 <gavinandresen> The right way is https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/4120476
100 2013-02-08 15:45:16 <webuser3232> gavinandresen, so it's being considered then?
101 2013-02-08 15:45:48 <webuser3232> I guess at the moment it works for gambling etc with a small disclaimer about not using webwallets etc
102 2013-02-08 15:46:09 <gavinandresen> webuser3232: yes, as soon as 0.8 is wrapped up I hope to start writing code to implement the payment protocol
103 2013-02-08 15:46:57 <webuser3232> well .. thank you for explaining it to me .. i like bitcoin even more now :)
104 2013-02-08 15:47:11 <phantomcircuit> webuser3232, is this for simple retail sales?
105 2013-02-08 15:48:03 <webuser3232> phantomcircuit, yes and also for some other ideas that has been multiplying in my head
106 2013-02-08 15:49:02 <phantomcircuit> webuser3232, for retail sales i recommend bitpay they have already solved a lot of these kinds of problems
107 2013-02-08 15:52:04 <webuser3232> phantomcircuit, thanks .. reatail is just one of the things i've been thinking off recently
108 2013-02-08 16:13:49 <benkay> does anyone have experience building bitcoind from source on os x?
109 2013-02-08 16:14:09 <CodeShark> I do
110 2013-02-08 16:14:18 <benkay> would you heeeelp meeee pleeeease?
111 2013-02-08 16:14:28 <CodeShark> what version of OS X are you running?
112 2013-02-08 16:14:40 <benkay> 10.7
113 2013-02-08 16:15:12 <CodeShark> have you already tried the instructions per https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-osx.txt ?
114 2013-02-08 16:15:38 <benkay> negation. just became aware of.
115 2013-02-08 16:16:05 <benkay> thanks CodeShark
116 2013-02-08 16:16:10 <CodeShark> np
117 2013-02-08 16:16:21 <benkay> is there a karma bot in this channel?
118 2013-02-08 16:16:29 <benkay> 'caue CodeShark++
119 2013-02-08 16:16:29 <jgarzik> what does the bitcoin network look like, to a Tor user?
120 2013-02-08 16:16:49 <jgarzik> I presume bitcoind does not auto-bootstrap on Tor? You have to know at least one onion address to get going?
121 2013-02-08 16:17:15 <CodeShark> benkay, I also wrote a little config script
122 2013-02-08 16:17:17 <jgarzik> ACTION also guesses that the total number of Tor nodes is rather low
123 2013-02-08 16:17:24 <arij> how can i see if i am holding any pizzacoins :)
124 2013-02-08 16:17:24 <CodeShark> that should check your dependencies on OS X
125 2013-02-08 16:17:37 <jgarzik> hmmm, maybe Bitcoin Foundation should be on Tor
126 2013-02-08 16:18:04 <benkay> sweet! where can I get my hands on that?
127 2013-02-08 16:18:22 <CodeShark> https://github.com/CodeShark/bitcoin/blob/4c92791df5c96128e03834a8a1a52c07c2164cf5/src/configure
128 2013-02-08 16:18:31 <CodeShark> stick it inside the bitcoin/src directory and run it
129 2013-02-08 16:18:35 <benkay> kk
130 2013-02-08 16:18:50 <benkay> different, related question: how frequently do you have conflicts between macports and brew?
131 2013-02-08 16:19:14 <CodeShark> I don't really install too many packages on OS X
132 2013-02-08 16:19:28 <CodeShark> my main build environments are linux
133 2013-02-08 16:19:48 <benkay> i broke my linux partition :(
134 2013-02-08 16:19:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: dnsseeds serve tor addresses
135 2013-02-08 16:20:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I believe sipa's is set up to always return at least one tor address per request...or something like that
136 2013-02-08 16:20:15 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: oh, as what type of DNS record?
137 2013-02-08 16:20:23 <BlueMatt> ipv6
138 2013-02-08 16:20:31 <BlueMatt> using bitcoin's custom encoding iirc
139 2013-02-08 16:20:33 <jgarzik> interesting
140 2013-02-08 16:22:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, did it end up being custom? i thought it was the onioncat format which is base32
141 2013-02-08 16:22:24 <gmaxwell> 09:16 <@jgarzik> I presume bitcoind does not auto-bootstrap on Tor? You have to know at least one onion address to get going?
142 2013-02-08 16:22:31 <gmaxwell> we can bootstrap on tor fine using dnsseeds.
143 2013-02-08 16:22:39 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: thats entirely possible, I forget
144 2013-02-08 16:22:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you're late
145 2013-02-08 16:23:25 <gmaxwell> sorry, FIFO.
146 2013-02-08 16:24:09 <gmaxwell> One piece that didn't get mentioned is that we can use dnsseeds even without making dns queries... so accessing the dnsseeds over tor works.
147 2013-02-08 16:24:55 <gmaxwell> well, sorta works??? if it can't do the dns query it just connects to it... so it only gets the benefit of one result per dnsseed.
148 2013-02-08 16:25:21 <BlueMatt> couldnt we theoretically make a tcp dns query?
149 2013-02-08 16:27:53 <phantomcircuit> fd87:d87e:eb43
150 2013-02-08 16:27:57 <gmaxwell> We could??? but we'd need to know DNS servers that accept tcp.
151 2013-02-08 16:28:01 <phantomcircuit> that looks like the onioncat prefix
152 2013-02-08 16:28:31 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: we use the onioncat prefix, yes.
153 2013-02-08 16:28:37 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: we know the dnsseed ns', we should be able to connect to those, no?
154 2013-02-08 16:28:40 <phantomcircuit> static const unsigned char pchOnionCat[] = {0xFD,0x87,0xD8,0x7E,0xEB,0x43};
155 2013-02-08 16:28:47 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well, we'd need to add the dnsseed ns', but still
156 2013-02-08 16:28:51 <phantomcircuit> yeah in that case none of the dns seeds are returning those afaict
157 2013-02-08 16:29:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: then you end up potentially loading up the dnsseeds, defeating dns caching... ::meh::
158 2013-02-08 16:29:23 <phantomcircuit> also there's something wrong with sipa's dns seed
159 2013-02-08 16:29:35 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: hm?
160 2013-02-08 16:29:45 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well I know mine and jgarzik's should handle it, I dunno what kind of bw sipa's seed can handle
161 2013-02-08 16:29:45 <phantomcircuit> host seed.bitcoin.sipa.be stalls after returning results followed by ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
162 2013-02-08 16:29:57 <phantomcircuit> so it's working but i dont think in the way it's supposed to
163 2013-02-08 16:29:59 <HM> you should look at telehash. it's designed to be a generic multi-application DHT for connecting nodes
164 2013-02-08 16:30:15 <gmaxwell> ...
165 2013-02-08 16:30:29 <BlueMatt> ooooooo DHTs!
166 2013-02-08 16:30:36 <gavinandresen> uh oh
167 2013-02-08 16:30:48 <BlueMatt> lol
168 2013-02-08 16:30:49 <HM> did i step on another grenade?
169 2013-02-08 16:30:50 <phantomcircuit> generic MAGIC for connecting nodes
170 2013-02-08 16:30:55 <BlueMatt> HM: yes
171 2013-02-08 16:31:00 <phantomcircuit> HM, yeah right in the middle of it
172 2013-02-08 16:31:05 <HM> ACTION thumbles with the pin
173 2013-02-08 16:31:14 <BlueMatt> HM: mentioning dhts on this chan is always...fun
174 2013-02-08 16:31:46 <phantomcircuit> the biggest problem is your peers are dirty filthy liars
175 2013-02-08 16:32:00 <gmaxwell> HM: it's sort of a joke here. Mostly in that I made an observation before the DHTs are a really frequent bad suggestion. (suggested to solve problems they don't actually help with) So it generates some snickers when they come up.
176 2013-02-08 16:32:38 <HM> isn't all peer exchange vulnerable to filthy liar syndrome?
177 2013-02-08 16:33:03 <gavinandresen>
178 2013-02-08 16:33:06 <phantomcircuit> ultimately yes but to very very different extents
179 2013-02-08 16:33:11 <gmaxwell> HM: more specifically, to your particular point??? I looked at telehash before and their solution to the bootstrapping problem is to consult a _single_ centeralized server.
180 2013-02-08 16:33:37 <HM> only because nobody is running telehash servers
181 2013-02-08 16:33:44 <gmaxwell> HM: DHTs get suggested for things far beyind peer exchange where its even less applicable too.
182 2013-02-08 16:33:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hmm...yet another vm suite that will produce very slightly different results?
183 2013-02-08 16:34:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: seems like we need to do more digging on why everyone is getting different results first
184 2013-02-08 16:34:30 <HM> DNS bootstrap isn't exactly immune to fiddling
185 2013-02-08 16:34:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I just want to get rid of an old laptop on my desk
186 2013-02-08 16:34:46 <gmaxwell> HM: thats still not a solution to bootstrapping- as it still just reduces to having a list of servers in the software.... and we can already do that without shimming in yet another protocol: just list in a bunch of bitcoin nodes (and we already do)
187 2013-02-08 16:35:10 <HM> well a compiled in list seems like a bad idea
188 2013-02-08 16:35:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ack, will be interesting to see if it produces identical results
189 2013-02-08 16:35:19 <HM> can't you at least put it in a file
190 2013-02-08 16:35:26 <gmaxwell> HM: thats how you must bootstrap telehash.
191 2013-02-08 16:35:31 <gmaxwell> HM: we have that too (addr.txt)
192 2013-02-08 16:36:06 <HM> the idea of telehash is so people have a server they use, like DNS. not that everyone goes to telehash.org
193 2013-02-08 16:36:27 <HM> i'm not saying it's perfect, just throwing it out there.
194 2013-02-08 16:36:46 <HM> there's room for improvement over mysterious IPs compiled in to my binary :P
195 2013-02-08 16:37:00 <gmaxwell> HM: we already do have improvement over that.
196 2013-02-08 16:37:02 <phantomcircuit> HM, bitcoind has a ton of bootstrap methods
197 2013-02-08 16:37:18 <gmaxwell> The static IP list is the last resort option when everything else fails.
198 2013-02-08 16:37:30 <phantomcircuit> compiled in ips, addr.txt, dnsseeds, irc (but dont do dat), addr.dat
199 2013-02-08 16:37:47 <phantomcircuit> bootstrap once and you're good
200 2013-02-08 16:38:07 <phantomcircuit> (well sort of that's a gross over simplification but is applicable to 99.99% of cases)
201 2013-02-08 16:38:36 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you forgot addnode.
202 2013-02-08 16:38:48 <HM> right, i just don't like compiled in configuration period
203 2013-02-08 16:38:52 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh i did
204 2013-02-08 16:39:05 <phantomcircuit> HM, you have basically two options
205 2013-02-08 16:39:19 <phantomcircuit> automatic connections and compiled in configurations
206 2013-02-08 16:39:29 <phantomcircuit> or the user has to supply a bootstrap method/peer
207 2013-02-08 16:39:41 <phantomcircuit> and there's no reason for that
208 2013-02-08 16:40:28 <gmaxwell> HM: so provide an addr.txt, it won't use the internal list unless nothing else works. ... but it's nice that you don't have to go put a whole bunch of extra files in place just to get bitcoin working.
209 2013-02-08 16:40:52 <HM> why not ditch the compiled in list and just ship all the compiled in IPs in a file?
210 2013-02-08 16:41:02 <HM> it's a lot more transparent
211 2013-02-08 16:42:02 <MC1984> lol someone mentioned DHTs again
212 2013-02-08 16:42:22 <amiller> did someone say DHT
213 2013-02-08 16:42:31 <MC1984> greg smash
214 2013-02-08 16:42:39 <amiller> moore, werd
215 2013-02-08 16:42:45 <gmaxwell> HM: because doing so wouldn't gain anything??? the list is almost never used, it's about the least important thing in the source code, if having the source code isn't transparent enough to you then you shouldn't be running bitcoin at all??? and would make installs more failure prone.
216 2013-02-08 16:44:42 <HM> source code isn't transparent to most users
217 2013-02-08 16:44:51 <CodeShark> I sorta agree that the list shouldn't be hardcoded
218 2013-02-08 16:44:51 <HM> they install a binary package and they go on their way
219 2013-02-08 16:45:04 <CodeShark> it's not just about transparency
220 2013-02-08 16:45:17 <HM> even if you have the source and read the source, like me, i have no idea who those IPs belong to or why they were included
221 2013-02-08 16:45:45 <gmaxwell> HM: you're falling into the shed painting trap.
222 2013-02-08 16:45:46 <CodeShark> it's just better design, IMHO :)
223 2013-02-08 16:46:11 <phantomcircuit> HM, im not sure anybody does at this point
224 2013-02-08 16:46:28 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, that's actually a good question, what are the hard coded ips? (not talking dnsseed)
225 2013-02-08 16:46:44 <gmaxwell> (in its most originally described form: You have a nuclear plant schemetic in front of you, and you're complaining about the color of the toolshed out behind it)
226 2013-02-08 16:46:59 <HM> how does port handling currently work btw?
227 2013-02-08 16:47:18 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: see the git commit history. They're just dumps of high uptime nodes from sipa's seed. There is an extraction script that produces them.
228 2013-02-08 16:48:08 <CodeShark> another good reason for not hardcoding them is that users can update their lists without having to either recompile or download a new binary
229 2013-02-08 16:48:11 <HM> I need to look at the peer exchange code
230 2013-02-08 16:48:15 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: see contrib/seeds/makeseeds.py
231 2013-02-08 16:48:29 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: they can already do that.
232 2013-02-08 16:48:33 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: provide an addr.txt
233 2013-02-08 16:48:46 <CodeShark> gmaxwell, my point is that the addr.txt file should be sufficient
234 2013-02-08 16:48:52 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: the compiled in ones are only used as a last resort if the node has nothing else.
235 2013-02-08 16:49:25 <HM> feels unclean man -_-
236 2013-02-08 16:49:31 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: forcing the user to have an addr.txt in place means that just running the binary would be insufficient, you'd be forced to have an installer
237 2013-02-08 16:49:34 <CodeShark> if the user has nothing else, there could be an option to download an addr.txt file from a webserver
238 2013-02-08 16:49:39 <gmaxwell> ugh.
239 2013-02-08 16:49:49 <phantomcircuit> lol
240 2013-02-08 16:49:56 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, give up
241 2013-02-08 16:49:57 <phantomcircuit> i did
242 2013-02-08 16:50:11 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: so then you hard code some centeralized @#$@# webserver into the source instead??? that most users will connect on first install... how is this better?
243 2013-02-08 16:50:36 <phantomcircuit> there's a web 2.0 joke in there somewhere
244 2013-02-08 16:51:39 <CodeShark> I guess in the end it doesn't really make a difference either way...you're right
245 2013-02-08 16:51:42 <phantomcircuit> i just got the best idea
246 2013-02-08 16:51:48 <phantomcircuit> lol this is gonna be hilarious
247 2013-02-08 16:51:50 <HM> eh
248 2013-02-08 16:51:57 <HM> you could still ship a default addr.txt with the binary
249 2013-02-08 16:52:17 <phantomcircuit> there's no installer
250 2013-02-08 16:52:27 <gmaxwell> HM: then you have to have an installer that gets run to copy it into place. So you've just made bitcoin harder to startup and more failure prone.. for what?
251 2013-02-08 16:52:31 <phantomcircuit> the default addr.txt would need to be compiled into the binary
252 2013-02-08 16:52:34 <phantomcircuit> ironic much
253 2013-02-08 16:52:37 <CodeShark> heh
254 2013-02-08 16:52:52 <HM> an installer like the one that installs bitcoin.exe you mean?
255 2013-02-08 16:53:04 <HM> i wonder where we'll get one of those ;)
256 2013-02-08 16:53:06 <CodeShark> actually, having the binary produce the addr.txt might not be such a terrible idea :)
257 2013-02-08 16:53:07 <gmaxwell> HM: Windows has an installer. Other platforms do not.
258 2013-02-08 16:53:32 <HM> they have package managers...which install files derived from the source distribution :/
259 2013-02-08 16:53:33 <CodeShark> doesn't solve the need to compile it in...but it makes the list more visible and the method for adding nodes more consistent
260 2013-02-08 16:53:50 <gmaxwell> holy shit, stop with the shed painting. There are far more important things to worry about.. in your effort to fix something which is harmless because it doesn't appeal to some technical-asthetic you're making really bad suggestions that would crap on the privacy of bitcoin users (go fetch it from a webserver? come on!), or make it more likely to not work for people, or to fail in inexplicable ways
261 2013-02-08 16:54:22 <HM> okay, jees. no need to get passionate about it
262 2013-02-08 16:54:28 <CodeShark> gmaxwell, there are people willing to work on these kinds of things without getting paid at all
263 2013-02-08 16:54:29 <gmaxwell> I will kill you all.
264 2013-02-08 16:54:31 <gmaxwell> :P
265 2013-02-08 16:54:48 <CodeShark> if you were writing our paychecks you'd be far more in a position to complain about us wasting time on it :p
266 2013-02-08 16:55:09 <phantomcircuit> HM, you're wrong, it's that simple
267 2013-02-08 16:55:14 <phantomcircuit> next subject
268 2013-02-08 16:55:29 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I am paying you with my attention right now??? and spending time saving you time from wasting in on really horrible non-starter ideas. :)
269 2013-02-08 16:55:30 <HM> right
270 2013-02-08 16:55:38 <phantomcircuit> maybe one of the dnsseeds should always return a tor node
271 2013-02-08 16:56:04 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: for the record, I wasn't the one volunteering to write this feature :p
272 2013-02-08 16:56:11 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you don't actually need tor nodes to bootstrap tor mode... since even a tor only node can still exit to the v4 network.
273 2013-02-08 16:56:35 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: FWIW, I've got things that are much higher priority on my list than this
274 2013-02-08 16:56:35 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, this is true... but exit nodes are much slower than hidden service connections
275 2013-02-08 16:56:51 <phantomcircuit> then why are you here???????
276 2013-02-08 16:56:52 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I know. :)
277 2013-02-08 16:57:29 <HM> So if you want to block bitcoin right now
278 2013-02-08 16:57:41 <gmaxwell> I think you're all over estimating how that list is used. I wouldn't at all be surprised if there is not a single node with current software currently running who has used the internal list.
279 2013-02-08 16:57:44 <CodeShark> phantomcircuit: much higher priority than implementing that particular feature
280 2013-02-08 16:57:55 <CodeShark> like cleaning up code dependencies and adding multiple wallet support
281 2013-02-08 16:58:01 <HM> block the irc channel, dick the DNS records hard coded in to bitcoind, and block the IP list hard coded in bitcoind....now you can't bootstrap without an addr.txt file
282 2013-02-08 16:58:07 <HM> that seems trivial
283 2013-02-08 16:58:09 <phantomcircuit> horray for multi wallet support
284 2013-02-08 16:58:12 <phantomcircuit> HORRAAAYYY
285 2013-02-08 16:58:21 <phantomcircuit> (not sarcastically)
286 2013-02-08 16:58:49 <phantomcircuit> HM, all of those things are in different jurisdictions
287 2013-02-08 16:59:03 <gmaxwell> HM: and your point is?
288 2013-02-08 16:59:05 <phantomcircuit> to do that would require the coordinated efforts of about 12 countries
289 2013-02-08 16:59:13 <phantomcircuit> much easier to just block port 8333
290 2013-02-08 16:59:17 <gmaxwell> (without an addr.txt or adding a single addnode, or proxying to tor)
291 2013-02-08 16:59:35 <HM> maybe, i'm just saying if Comcast wanted to be evil and block bitcoin they could do so a lot easier because of these hardcoded behaviors. No protocol or port based filtering
292 2013-02-08 16:59:44 <gmaxwell> HM: yes, and?
293 2013-02-08 16:59:57 <benkay> CodeShark++ everything compiled
294 2013-02-08 16:59:59 <gmaxwell> HM: no DHT system solves that in the _slighest_
295 2013-02-08 17:00:00 <benkay> <3
296 2013-02-08 17:00:05 <phantomcircuit> the bitcoin protocol isn't designed at all to be censorship resistent
297 2013-02-08 17:00:14 <HM> the same goes for anyone who wanted to snoop on ISP bitcoin transactions. presumably if you control bootstrap you control the channels people connect to the network
298 2013-02-08 17:00:15 <phantomcircuit> it would actually be totally trivial to filter
299 2013-02-08 17:00:25 <HM> i know this
300 2013-02-08 17:00:31 <gmaxwell> we have better bootstrapping than any other piece of p2p software I could find??? and I went and looked because I wanted better ones, only to find that we were already the best.
301 2013-02-08 17:00:52 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the only improvement i could think of would be random ip scanning
302 2013-02-08 17:00:56 <gmaxwell> 'you control the channels' channels?
303 2013-02-08 17:01:05 <phantomcircuit> but that's dangerous and would be like the last last last last resort
304 2013-02-08 17:01:24 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: We don't have enough nodes that it would be successful before it got bitcoin banned for being a network nusance.
305 2013-02-08 17:01:49 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, if it was slow enough it would probably work eventually
306 2013-02-08 17:01:59 <CodeShark> benkay: glad to hear
307 2013-02-08 17:02:02 <phantomcircuit> remember a syn packet is only 40 bytes
308 2013-02-08 17:02:12 <phantomcircuit> there's 4k connectable nodes
309 2013-02-08 17:02:14 <muhoo> syn floods are blocked, usually
310 2013-02-08 17:02:26 <gmaxwell> (one of the reasons we don't IRC by default anymore??? it got bitcoin banned for being botnet drone software.. doh)
311 2013-02-08 17:02:34 <HM> phantomcircuit: that's more than there are (public) tor relays
312 2013-02-08 17:02:47 <phantomcircuit> it would take about 1 million attempts to find another node
313 2013-02-08 17:03:07 <phantomcircuit> so that's about 40 MiB
314 2013-02-08 17:03:28 <phantomcircuit> at a reasonable clip it would take days if not weeks
315 2013-02-08 17:04:16 <phantomcircuit> the default limit on win 7 is 10 half open so lets use that
316 2013-02-08 17:04:25 <phantomcircuit> timeout of 5 seconds
317 2013-02-08 17:04:39 <HM> I wonder how many people are using bitcoin over tor, besides torwallet
318 2013-02-08 17:04:50 <phantomcircuit> that's 2 per second
319 2013-02-08 17:05:15 <phantomcircuit> so that's 6 days average time to find another node
320 2013-02-08 17:05:25 <HM> wait did torwallet die
321 2013-02-08 17:05:39 <phantomcircuit> not great but also not totally terrible in a world where all other bootstrap methods fail
322 2013-02-08 17:05:48 <phantomcircuit> HM, torwallet is a scam
323 2013-02-08 17:05:50 <phantomcircuit> and always was
324 2013-02-08 17:05:52 <HM> oh good
325 2013-02-08 17:05:55 <phantomcircuit> a pretty obvious one at that
326 2013-02-08 17:06:17 <muhoo> as a great chinese engineer i one worked with said "do not fix thing that is not broken"
327 2013-02-08 17:07:08 <gmaxwell> HM: lots of people use bitcoin over tor. Thanks to b.i doing so or using b.i's wallet is the only way to avoid having your IPs displayed with your transactions on a webpage.
328 2013-02-08 17:07:33 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, their ip display is hilarious inaccurate
329 2013-02-08 17:07:35 <webb> maybe thats why alot of chinese made stuff is crap
330 2013-02-08 17:08:02 <amiller> if it ain't fixen don't broke it
331 2013-02-08 17:08:02 <muhoo> webb: naw, this guy was good. but idioms don't translate well between languages, in general.
332 2013-02-08 17:08:03 <phantomcircuit> i was broadcasting transactions through a relay that's connected to all connectable peers and it had the wrong ip for about half of them
333 2013-02-08 17:08:06 <gmaxwell> webb: most chinese made stuff has tremendous price performance??? you ask for cheap you get cheap.
334 2013-02-08 17:08:14 <phantomcircuit> i cant imagine it's even remotely accurate for normal clients
335 2013-02-08 17:08:50 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: even getting it right 10% of the time would be a tremendous privacy loss.
336 2013-02-08 17:09:41 <muhoo> btw, on the topic of bitcoind and tor, i found setting up bitcoind and tor to be a significant PITA
337 2013-02-08 17:10:42 <phantomcircuit> muhoo, as a hidden service?
338 2013-02-08 17:10:46 <gmaxwell> muhoo: you can use bitcoin w/ tor without being an onion server??? though of course it's better if more people are. But I wonder why you say significant PITA?
339 2013-02-08 17:10:57 <Jezzz> anyone done a websocket connection for blockchain in python?
340 2013-02-08 17:10:57 <muhoo> it was the socks setup
341 2013-02-08 17:11:07 <eigho> how is everybody on -dev ?
342 2013-02-08 17:11:13 <Jezzz> seems trivial, but i'm not being successful
343 2013-02-08 17:11:24 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i wish the tor people would allow creating hidden services using the control port
344 2013-02-08 17:11:29 <muhoo> i don't remember the specifics, but it involved dicking with settings deep in the preferences of bitcoind or the gui tor app, or both, IIRC
345 2013-02-08 17:11:42 <gmaxwell> muhoo: uhhhh that shouldn't be required at all.
346 2013-02-08 17:12:06 <phantomcircuit> muhoo, -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050
347 2013-02-08 17:12:10 <gmaxwell> we have a gui setting for the proxy. Tor has a default socks port. plugging 127.0.0.1 in there should do it.
348 2013-02-08 17:12:28 <phantomcircuit> just add that as a cli option or change the proxy setting in the gui
349 2013-02-08 17:13:04 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it's an oft requested feature... though you'd still have to get access to the control port to the application.
350 2013-02-08 17:13:24 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, that's really easy actually
351 2013-02-08 17:13:30 <phantomcircuit> the protocol is dead simple
352 2013-02-08 17:14:17 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I mean you'd need to know the credentials.
353 2013-02-08 17:14:35 <gmaxwell> (access to the control port is restricted, for good reasons!)
354 2013-02-08 17:14:40 <phantomcircuit> defaults to saving them in a file
355 2013-02-08 17:14:42 <phantomcircuit> i forget where
356 2013-02-08 17:15:21 <phantomcircuit> no actually it depends on the distro
357 2013-02-08 17:15:23 <phantomcircuit> but still
358 2013-02-08 17:15:24 <gmaxwell> In any case, https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6411
359 2013-02-08 17:15:37 <muhoo> looking through my (cryptic) notes, it was, using tor-browser/visalia, had to turn automatic port of, and set the port to 9051
360 2013-02-08 17:15:43 <gmaxwell> Also, https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/5976
361 2013-02-08 17:15:58 <eigho> hey, gmaxwell, can bitcoin advertise itself using tor addresses?
362 2013-02-08 17:15:58 <muhoo> in bitcoind, i hat to set the port to 9050, and turn off upnp
363 2013-02-08 17:16:10 <phantomcircuit> eigho, yes
364 2013-02-08 17:16:18 <gmaxwell> eigho: yes. See doc/Tor.txt
365 2013-02-08 17:16:27 <phantomcircuit> .onion addresses are translated into ipv6 onioncat formatted addresses
366 2013-02-08 17:16:41 <eigho> so we can have everything over tor. nice
367 2013-02-08 17:16:42 <muhoo> the sketchy thing was, setting the port to 9051 in tor browser/visalia, but leaving it 9050 bitcoind, is all i can peice together from that
368 2013-02-08 17:16:54 <gmaxwell> muhoo: upnp should be unrelated.
369 2013-02-08 17:16:55 <muhoo> i meant to ask why that was
370 2013-02-08 17:16:58 <phantomcircuit> 9051 is the control port
371 2013-02-08 17:17:05 <phantomcircuit> 9050 is the socks port
372 2013-02-08 17:17:18 <muhoo> well, i had to do that, and it was minimally-documented/undocumented IIRC.
373 2013-02-08 17:17:57 <muhoo> just FYI
374 2013-02-08 17:18:00 <eigho> ah. also, phantomcircuit and gmaxwell, didn't you say you were going to give stamit his money back?
375 2013-02-08 17:18:08 <gmaxwell> I wasn't aware that the torbrowser stuff changed the default port??? seems braindamaged.
376 2013-02-08 17:18:11 <phantomcircuit> oh ffs eigho go away
377 2013-02-08 17:19:13 <muhoo> gmaxwell: perhaps, but that's what made it difficult, again, my memory is absolutely horrible, apologies.
378 2013-02-08 17:19:14 <MC1984> oh he came back lol
379 2013-02-08 17:19:56 <gmaxwell> muhoo: thanks for the feedback, I'll see if I can find out what tor things do what and at least update our docs to help a bit.
380 2013-02-08 17:20:46 <eizedo> yes, that's what happens when you have to give money
381 2013-02-08 17:20:56 <gmaxwell> ;;kban #bitcoin-dev eizedo stamit
382 2013-02-08 17:21:07 <phantomcircuit> next step
383 2013-02-08 17:21:09 <phantomcircuit> ban china
384 2013-02-08 17:21:39 <gmaxwell> One might wonder why this supposidly boring but mildly crazy trader guy has access to all these proxies.
385 2013-02-08 17:21:49 <gmaxwell> supposedly*
386 2013-02-08 17:22:25 <phantomcircuit> it's interesting that he thinks he can screw with me
387 2013-02-08 17:22:32 <phantomcircuit> he really is crazy
388 2013-02-08 17:22:52 <phantomcircuit> i'll send him the $126 just to find out his real name
389 2013-02-08 17:23:45 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, im pretty sure he's buying servers
390 2013-02-08 17:23:48 <phantomcircuit> which is bizarre
391 2013-02-08 17:26:14 <MC1984> ever had someone rent a botnet just to troll you?
392 2013-02-08 17:26:23 <MC1984> do you feel special gmaxwell?
393 2013-02-08 17:27:06 <gmaxwell> hey, he's trolling phantomcircuit now too.
394 2013-02-08 17:27:12 <gmaxwell> so I guess I'm less special.
395 2013-02-08 17:27:31 <phantomcircuit> he's not ready for trolling me
396 2013-02-08 17:27:36 <phantomcircuit> he isn't prepared for that
397 2013-02-08 17:27:40 <phantomcircuit> ACTION evil laughs
398 2013-02-08 17:28:18 <MC1984> indeed you cannot troll a master troll :P
399 2013-02-08 17:29:21 <helo> can anyone find the video of that kid yelling at his mom because she is asking him to stop playing call of duty (or some online game)?
400 2013-02-08 17:29:44 <egecko> youtube might
401 2013-02-08 17:30:00 <MC1984> prob the same kid that made the halo 2 video
402 2013-02-08 17:30:17 <MC1984> average_console_gamer.mp4
403 2013-02-08 17:31:22 <MC1984> LIGHTNING ROUND
404 2013-02-08 17:31:36 <helo> can't find it :/
405 2013-02-08 17:31:47 <helo> doh, this isn't -otc sorry
406 2013-02-08 17:31:52 <MC1984> why isnt the chain check speed the exact same right until the checkpoint, at which point it should slow lots
407 2013-02-08 17:31:55 <MC1984> right?
408 2013-02-08 17:32:23 <gmaxwell> "why isnt .... right"?
409 2013-02-08 17:32:36 <gmaxwell> (PARSE ERROR)
410 2013-02-08 17:32:51 <MC1984> im so tired im brething manually right now
411 2013-02-08 17:33:12 <gmaxwell> Then go sleep?
412 2013-02-08 17:33:25 <MC1984> were it so easy
413 2013-02-08 17:34:42 <MC1984> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG42S_PmRs4&noredirect=1
414 2013-02-08 17:34:55 <MC1984> an old classic there helo
415 2013-02-08 17:35:08 <MC1984> i played halo 2 and a lot o them were actually like that
416 2013-02-08 17:35:25 <helo> This video contains content from Warner Chappell and UMG, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
417 2013-02-08 17:35:42 <MC1984> lol ae you serious
418 2013-02-08 17:37:58 <muhoo> change countries then
419 2013-02-08 17:38:39 <MC1984> well its called "croyts anger" if you an find it
420 2013-02-08 17:38:46 <helo> found another copy... how the hell could they claim copyright on that?
421 2013-02-08 17:39:03 <muhoo> i can claim copyright on rounded corners
422 2013-02-08 17:39:19 <muhoo> ACTION takes out a patent for chewing food
423 2013-02-08 17:39:32 <MC1984> send millions of purgerous DMCA notices out automatically knowing no one will ever touch you for it
424 2013-02-08 17:39:34 <MC1984> its easy
425 2013-02-08 17:40:50 <gmaxwell> MC1984: At least in the ads but not blocked case its become quite a little industry on youtube??? send out bogus notices flagged to trigger ads on old uploads, and you then get paid per view. Youtube earns money on it too, so there is little incentive for them to be critical.
426 2013-02-08 17:41:41 <gmaxwell> I have exactly one video on youtube??? an upload of big buck bunny (cc-by licensed) I put up for codec testing, and I've had it taken down with bogus mandated adverts four times now.
427 2013-02-08 17:42:18 <MC1984> ads paying completely unrelated third parties?
428 2013-02-08 17:42:56 <moore> the copy right wars will be won with better software. Money has infected the politics of it.
429 2013-02-08 17:43:02 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yup
430 2013-02-08 17:43:53 <MC1984> that really is bullshit
431 2013-02-08 17:44:02 <gmaxwell> MC1984: business model seems to be (1) sign up as a copyright owner with youtube, (2) find high(er) traffic videos from inactive youtube users, (3) profit
432 2013-02-08 17:44:05 <moore> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/as-curiosity-touches-down-on-mars-video-is-taken-down-from-youtube/
433 2013-02-08 17:44:06 <MC1984> the studios have pretty well captured youtube
434 2013-02-08 17:44:25 <gmaxwell> It irritates me doubly because when a youtube video has mandatory ads it makes it flash only.. no WebM support.
435 2013-02-08 17:45:18 <MC1984> of course its fraud but what you gonna do about it?
436 2013-02-08 17:46:07 <MC1984> just call up your legal department on extens.......wait a minute
437 2013-02-08 17:46:15 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i always wondered what it was that caused that
438 2013-02-08 17:46:30 <gmaxwell> And it looks like youtube will only provide me with contact info for the fraudsters it under subpoena.
439 2013-02-08 17:46:31 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, depends on how much you lost
440 2013-02-08 17:46:41 <gmaxwell> s/ it //
441 2013-02-08 17:47:01 <MC1984> its a pity the purjury bit doesnt mean shit
442 2013-02-08 17:47:30 <gmaxwell> IIRC youtube doesn't even make reporting parties file a formal dmca notice... so there is no purjury.
443 2013-02-08 17:47:41 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, for some fun go and bitch at the da (well assistant da)
444 2013-02-08 17:47:58 <phantomcircuit> they're unlikely to do anything but if enough people complain about perjury maybe someday
445 2013-02-08 17:47:59 <gmaxwell> They're complicit but it's a free service so... I guess the public significance of the infrastructure is irrelevant.
446 2013-02-08 17:50:12 <moore> well the good news is that bitcoin is actually part of the answer :)
447 2013-02-08 17:52:15 <MC1984> the only thing that really works is competition
448 2013-02-08 17:52:25 <MC1984> but nothing comes close to youtube
449 2013-02-08 17:53:04 <MC1984> plus the become further entrenched with the rise of web "services" deliered though specialised apps in things like TVs and such
450 2013-02-08 17:53:53 <moore> MC1984, ya I am resiting right now researching what I would have to do to streem to HTML5 video
451 2013-02-08 17:58:36 <MC1984> http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2013/20130206p2pfrance
452 2013-02-08 17:58:53 <MC1984> lol 2 strikes leads to 35% drop in p2p,22% drop in sales
453 2013-02-08 17:58:57 <MC1984> whoops a daisy
454 2013-02-08 18:00:06 <MC1984> i suppose all those studies about how pirates spend more arnt bullshit after all RIAA
455 2013-02-08 18:00:34 <HM> hmm
456 2013-02-08 18:00:42 <MC1984> of couse hadopi is still lauded as a success, because its never been about the money it was always about control
457 2013-02-08 18:01:01 <MC1984> such is the culture of these people
458 2013-02-08 18:02:15 <HM> so 0.8-rc1 has fully synced for me now, and is occupying 1 GiB of memory on a 512 MiB VPS
459 2013-02-08 18:02:35 <HM> it seems the default -dbcache is 25 MiB, so is there anything else i can do to reduce memory footprint?
460 2013-02-08 18:02:48 <HM> # connections is already much lower than 0.7.2
461 2013-02-08 18:03:11 <MC1984> still 1gb after finishing?
462 2013-02-08 18:03:15 <HM> Indeed
463 2013-02-08 18:04:30 <MC1984> mine doesnt go above 300
464 2013-02-08 18:05:11 <HM> well i issed bitcoind stop
465 2013-02-08 18:05:20 <HM> and it's not falling at about 2 MiB/s according to htop
466 2013-02-08 18:05:22 <HM> resident
467 2013-02-08 18:05:33 <HM> actually it's fluctuating
468 2013-02-08 18:06:58 <HM> the heap is 500 MiB
469 2013-02-08 18:09:55 <HM> i'll restart it and see how it fares
470 2013-02-08 18:13:22 <HM> the debian stable bitcoind package has been recompiled
471 2013-02-08 18:13:28 <HM> still 0.7.2 though atm
472 2013-02-08 18:13:40 <HM> (which makes sense)
473 2013-02-08 18:28:55 <gmaxwell> moore: to stream html5 video .. you put files on your webserver. And you put a video tag on your site. Just like an image. Thats basically it??? at least just to get something going.
474 2013-02-08 18:30:55 <moore> gmaxwell, ya but I want to do it in my distributed secure message passing based system
475 2013-02-08 18:32:18 <gmaxwell> moore: if you can handle transfering an image you can handle video. Though best if you can fetch the file in order.
476 2013-02-08 18:32:59 <moore> gmaxwell, I can I just need to look in how to give the player one chunk at a time
477 2013-02-08 18:33:18 <moore> so I don't have to get the hole thing before playing it video
478 2013-02-08 18:34:01 <moore> and I can't just stream a big file cause you can't authenticate the data untill you see it all
479 2013-02-08 18:34:37 <moore> you can think of what I am building as tahoe + bitcoin in the browser
480 2013-02-08 18:34:56 <moore> not exatly right but a useful way to start thinking about it
481 2013-02-08 18:34:59 <Scrat> gmaxwell: with a few modifications (moov atom has to be in the beginning)
482 2013-02-08 18:36:02 <Scrat> (For mp4 h264)
483 2013-02-08 18:37:59 <moore> ( and yes I know I was just talking like one of those people with grand plans that can't actual execute on them )
484 2013-02-08 18:38:05 <Scrat> (if you need seeking)
485 2013-02-08 18:38:14 <Scrat> too many parentheses
486 2013-02-08 18:39:42 <gmaxwell> Scrat: you actually can't decode mp4 at all without the segment table.. but thats because its braindamaged. Ogg and WebM have no such limitation.
487 2013-02-08 18:39:53 <moore> ( set parentheses ( too many ) )
488 2013-02-08 18:42:08 <Scrat> such a clusterfuck. IE won't be supporting webM so you're gonna have to encode both webM and H264 if you're hosting html5 video
489 2013-02-08 18:42:29 <moore> Scrat, or you can just not support IE
490 2013-02-08 18:42:43 <Scrat> I'm with you
491 2013-02-08 18:43:50 <moore> the js part of my project only works in IE 10 ( well I can't actually run that browser so who knows really )
492 2013-02-08 18:44:40 <moore> rather IE 10 is the only IE bowser is could possibly work in
493 2013-02-08 18:45:23 <gmaxwell> Scrat: webm works fine in IE so long as you have the codec installed. Apple stuff is the long poll in the tent.
494 2013-02-08 18:45:45 <gmaxwell> s/poll/pole/ :P
495 2013-02-08 18:45:55 <Scrat> oh right, forgot about Safari
496 2013-02-08 18:46:16 <moore> dose chrome for ios add webm support?
497 2013-02-08 18:47:29 <gmaxwell> I don't believe it does. Chrome for IOS is really a GUI front end on safari's webkit.
498 2013-02-08 18:47:37 <gmaxwell> But I wouldn't know, so don't listen to me.
499 2013-02-08 18:48:25 <moore> well I think it replaces the network interface and a bunch of other stuff too; but yes it uses webkit for rendering.
500 2013-02-08 18:49:35 <moore> if you have time to read it this epic post is interesting and enlightening : http://www.igvita.com/posa/high-performance-networking-in-google-chrome/
501 2013-02-08 18:53:43 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: hey, any chance you might clarify your blog? apparently some people are reading "Eligius has problems" from it when you talk about the GBT bugs in Avalon's cgminer :P
502 2013-02-08 18:53:57 <Goonie> I wonder how you build bitcoind? I always built bitcoin-qt using "make", but it builds only that. How do I tell make to build bitcoind?
503 2013-02-08 18:54:42 <Luke-Jr> Goonie: cd src
504 2013-02-08 18:54:52 <Luke-Jr> Goonie: make -f makefile.unix BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/db4.8
505 2013-02-08 18:55:25 <Goonie> luke: thanks
506 2013-02-08 19:41:35 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I got a match, gitian-building 0.8.0rc1 in VirtualBox!
507 2013-02-08 19:52:22 <jgarzik> ACTION cheers
508 2013-02-08 19:53:04 <phantomcircuit> if (addr.nTime <= 100000000 || addr.nTime > nNow + 10 * 60)
509 2013-02-08 19:53:11 <phantomcircuit> main.cpp:2856
510 2013-02-08 19:53:19 <phantomcircuit> anybody knows what the first check is for?
511 2013-02-08 19:54:20 <phantomcircuit> the Time (version >= 31402)
512 2013-02-08 19:54:27 <phantomcircuit> what was it < 31402?
513 2013-02-08 19:55:15 <phantomcircuit> actually i dont care nvm