1 2013-03-04 00:47:22 <Quazgaa> trying to understand the output of bfgminer... would the "Best share" stat equal "Diff" for a solved block
  2 2013-03-04 00:49:14 <Luke-Jr> >=
  3 2013-03-04 00:57:46 <Quazgaa> ah
  4 2013-03-04 02:01:54 <muhoo> which version of bitcoimj does multibit use? it looks like it hasn't been updated in over a year
  5 2013-03-04 03:13:42 <muhoo> oic, they don't actually use master as master :-(
  6 2013-03-04 03:13:47 <muhoo> weird
  7 2013-03-04 03:15:16 <muhoo> looks like master is actually 0.5
  8 2013-03-04 03:15:25 <muhoo> and.. they've forked the hell out of bitcoinj. wow.
  9 2013-03-04 03:17:52 <muhoo> well, that gives me a bit of courage. maybe i will just replace wallet with my own code then, and be done with it.
 10 2013-03-04 03:24:23 <muhoo> ooh, replayableblockstore. awesome, hmm, might be easier to base my stuff on multibit instead.
 11 2013-03-04 03:35:31 <swulf--> Why would it be that "bitcoind getbalance specific-account" yields a higher balance result than "bitcoind getbalance" ? I have a situation where I have nearly double the bitcoins in specific-account than I do if i just do getbalance without a parameter
 12 2013-03-04 03:38:41 <Luke-Jr> swulf--: another account has a negative amount perhaps?
 13 2013-03-04 03:38:52 <swulf--> hmm
 14 2013-03-04 03:38:55 <swulf--> ok
 15 2013-03-04 03:39:04 <swulf--> 
ACTION scans the other hundreds of accounts

 16 2013-03-04 03:39:40 <swulf--> ah there we go
 17 2013-03-04 03:39:42 <clav8_> listaccounts
 18 2013-03-04 03:39:46 <clav8_> will show it
 19 2013-03-04 03:40:00 <swulf--> yup
 20 2013-03-04 03:40:06 <swulf--> account "" has negative value in it
 21 2013-03-04 03:40:09 <swulf--> weird
 22 2013-03-04 03:40:13 <swulf--> why is that?
 23 2013-03-04 03:40:26 <Luke-Jr> you probably used sendtoaddress or some other account-unaware method
 24 2013-03-04 03:40:34 <swulf--> ahhh
 25 2013-03-04 03:40:37 <swulf--> yes
 26 2013-03-04 03:41:05 <swulf--> sendfrom would be better to keep track of account balances then?
 27 2013-03-04 03:42:12 <swulf--> "move"ing a negative amount seems disallowed.  that's too bad
 28 2013-03-04 03:42:16 <Luke-Jr> swulf--: yes, or sendmany
 29 2013-03-04 03:42:25 <Luke-Jr> swulf--: move a positive amount ;)
 30 2013-03-04 03:42:47 <swulf--> good idea
 31 2013-03-04 03:44:22 <swulf--> cool. thanks!
 32 2013-03-04 06:12:10 <muhoo> huh, what, how is it possible i'd never heard of multibitmerchant until now.
 33 2013-03-04 06:12:47 <muhoo> looks like there is already a complete store backend, based on bitcoinj (though old, 0.5.0).
 34 2013-03-04 06:13:16 <weex> the ability to get the word out about ones product or service is not evenly distributed
 35 2013-03-04 06:14:16 <muhoo> clearly
 36 2013-03-04 06:14:23 <muhoo> weex: is that what you use for coindl?
 37 2013-03-04 06:14:29 <weex> nope
 38 2013-03-04 06:14:44 <weex> looking at bitcoinj though
 39 2013-03-04 06:15:01 <muhoo> did you modify the bitcoind then?
 40 2013-03-04 06:15:16 <weex> never really ran java for any web services but bitcoinj seemingly does so much it's tempting
 41 2013-03-04 06:15:22 <weex> no, no mods required
 42 2013-03-04 06:15:39 <weex> just careful connectivity
 43 2013-03-04 06:16:05 <muhoo> really? but there's no feature in bitcoind to watch transactions, AFAICT. that's how i ended up with bitcoinj.
 44 2013-03-04 06:16:33 <weex> what about listtransactions?
 45 2013-03-04 06:16:44 <muhoo> polling, sure
 46 2013-03-04 06:16:46 <muhoo> but not a callback
 47 2013-03-04 06:16:58 <muhoo> 
ACTION hates polling

 48 2013-03-04 06:17:07 <weex> hate it all you want, workforme
 49 2013-03-04 06:17:13 <weex> worksforme*
 50 2013-03-04 06:17:45 <weex> was bitcoinj hard to setup and keep running?
 51 2013-03-04 06:17:59 <muhoo> if you know java, not really.
 52 2013-03-04 06:18:01 <gmaxwell> muhoo: uh,   -walletnotify=<cmd>    Execute command when a wallet transaction changes (%s in cmd is replaced by TxID)
 53 2013-03-04 06:18:22 <gmaxwell> (though blocknotify is really sufficient for most things)
 54 2013-03-04 06:18:34 <muhoo> gmaxwell: wallet tx, not all tx. gah, that's why i missed it.
 55 2013-03-04 06:19:09 <muhoo> i actually only need wallet tx anyway, but i guess i'd not realized that at the time.
 56 2013-03-04 06:19:55 <gmaxwell> well, blocknotify lets you just go run listtransactions when there is a new block. So it's 'polling' based but only once per ten minutes.
 57 2013-03-04 06:20:16 <muhoo> well i have to say i feel like a complete idiot. i've spent months trying to build somethign from low-level building blocks that could have been hacked together easily with existing components.
 58 2013-03-04 06:21:25 <weex> i happened to have the bitcoinj security model doc open in my browser from last night
 59 2013-03-04 06:21:39 <muhoo> yes, it's SPV
 60 2013-03-04 06:22:04 <muhoo> tho there's a new feature to run it as full node. haven't tried that yet.
 61 2013-03-04 06:27:04 <muhoo> well, i'm just dumbfounded. stunned by how much time i've wasted. looks like there's nothing here for me after all. shit.
 62 2013-03-04 06:33:42 <weex> muhoo:
 63 2013-03-04 06:34:22 <weex> sorry, i was going to ask what you were trying to do, i can't imagine the time you spent was totally wasted
 64 2013-03-04 06:36:08 <muhoo> not totally wasted, but i learned a lot of stuff that it now appears there's not a lot of potential to turn into income :-)
 65 2013-03-04 06:36:57 <muhoo> anyway, going to sleep on this and decide in the morning whether to continue.
 66 2013-03-04 06:37:03 <muhoo> thanks all
 67 2013-03-04 06:56:56 <sturles> gmaxwell: -walletnotify?  bitcoind 0.8.0 --help doesn't mention it.
 68 2013-03-04 06:59:38 <gmaxwell> It was merged after 0.8.0 was cut (the pull was there for a long time before). The blocknotify has been around for a long time.
 69 2013-03-04 07:02:20 <kritCoin_> hello
 70 2013-03-04 07:03:01 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 34.57769, Best ask: 34.78000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20231, Last trade: 34.78000, 24 hour volume: 17357.95129435, 24 hour low: 33.80000, 24 hour high: 34.80000, 24 hour vwap: 34.30602
 71 2013-03-04 07:03:01 <kritCoin_> !ticker
 72 2013-03-04 07:06:06 <kritCoin_> !ticker --last
 73 2013-03-04 07:06:07 <gribble> 34.85000
 74 2013-03-04 07:09:47 <sturles> gmaxwell: Thanks!  Will test.
 75 2013-03-04 09:03:53 <Acciaio> Hi all, after how many time an unconfirmed transaction will be deleted?
 76 2013-03-04 09:04:03 <Acciaio> how can I recover that bitcoins?
 77 2013-03-04 09:05:59 <Adifex> All bitcoin transactions are irreversible.
 78 2013-03-04 09:08:34 <gmaxwell> Acciaio: to recover coins stuck by unconfirmed transactions you must rebuild the wallet. Make a backup and use the salvagewallet option to bitcoin
 79 2013-03-04 09:08:43 <gmaxwell> Acciaio: how did you end up with stuck unconfirmed transactions?
 80 2013-03-04 09:08:44 <Acciaio> adifex but the transaction is unconfirmed and it is no more present https://blockchain.info/it/tx/ee082cd20d6bd35380d1311f84ca4ff967d72821aa12ca3f354718c3a5208e66
 81 2013-03-04 09:09:33 <Acciaio> thanks gmaxwell I'm trying this!
 82 2013-03-04 09:09:52 <Acciaio> the transaction was similar to https://blockchain.info/it/tx/2ce912fd4ce2438ff899c1d55cbc2c2653a86cf8ac1be08a3d38d153618a7cfe
 83 2013-03-04 09:10:57 <weex> it does have a fee
 84 2013-03-04 09:13:11 <Acciaio> yes 0.0005 fee
 85 2013-03-04 09:13:34 <Acciaio> I'm always sending 0.0005 fee
 86 2013-03-04 09:13:56 <gmaxwell> Acciaio: how long have you waited?
 87 2013-03-04 09:14:40 <Acciaio> since 28 feb but I don't know exactly when it was dropped
 88 2013-03-04 09:16:04 <gmaxwell> Acciaio: did you build the transaction using the raw transaction api? the reference client shouldn't build a transaction which won't get mined.
 89 2013-03-04 09:16:52 <Acciaio> gmaxwell, yes it was build using rawtransaction
 90 2013-03-04 09:17:27 <Acciaio> and never got a reject(from client) when I send some fee
 91 2013-03-04 09:20:21 <gmaxwell> sendrawtransaction will only reject transactions that your node won't even relay. It does not reject low fee transactions which is wouldn't mine.
 92 2013-03-04 09:21:24 <gmaxwell> If  your transaction does not qualify as free and don't have at least 0.0001 BTC /KB of fee it is pretty unlikely to get mined.
 93 2013-03-04 09:22:44 <gmaxwell> Acciaio: absolute fee value isn't imporant, what miners care about is btc per kb.
 94 2013-03-04 09:23:42 <Graet> http://pastebin.com/82u4nNce was from reference client version 0.6.3, does salvage wallet work on older versions or will i need to update?
 95 2013-03-04 09:24:50 <kritCoin_> gmaxwell, you are employed by a bitcoin company?
 96 2013-03-04 09:25:08 <sipa> Graet: since 0.7.0 or .1 iirc
 97 2013-03-04 09:25:15 <Graet> ty sipa
 98 2013-03-04 09:26:06 <Acciaio> ty gmaxwell  I'm changing my sender to meet 0.0001/KB
 99 2013-03-04 09:27:59 <gmaxwell> kritCoin_: no.
100 2013-03-04 09:33:25 <TD> gmaxwell do you ever sleep? :)
101 2013-03-04 09:34:03 <gmaxwell> Just finished doing my taxes ... and time to go to sleep, in fact. :P
102 2013-03-04 09:34:33 <TD> sleep and taxes
103 2013-03-04 09:34:36 <TD> the two inevitabilities
104 2013-03-04 09:34:39 <sipa> it's only 2:30 am for him, give hin a rest
105 2013-03-04 09:34:44 <TD> enjoy :)
106 2013-03-04 09:34:54 <TD> i suppose so
107 2013-03-04 09:35:31 <Graet> no rest for ppl with nicks starting with g!!!
108 2013-03-04 09:35:38 <Graet> i have found :P
109 2013-03-04 09:35:54 <sipa> thank goodness
110 2013-03-04 09:36:10 <Graet> good choice sipa "D
111 2013-03-04 09:37:50 <petertodd> sipa: Oh, and on top of that, I think transaction selection in CreateNewBlock has been wrong all along re: IsFinal()
112 2013-03-04 09:41:52 <sipa> petertodd: :o
113 2013-03-04 09:43:47 <petertodd> sipa: Basically, CreateNewBlock() calls IsFinal() directly, which compares against nBlockHeight, while AcceptBlock() compares against the height of the block itself, IE, there is an off-by-one.
114 2013-03-04 09:44:02 <petertodd> sipa: Really bad for fidelity bonds... the sacrifices are meaningless until this is fixed.
115 2013-03-04 09:46:57 <sipa> petertodd: just checked; you're right
116 2013-03-04 09:47:08 <petertodd> sipa: Yeah, checking it myself on testnet to be sure.
117 2013-03-04 09:49:42 <sipa> petertodd: that's a pity... it means it will take months before a nLockTime in wallets can be added
118 2013-03-04 09:50:01 <sipa> except a weaker off-by-one version
119 2013-03-04 09:50:35 <petertodd> Yup, I'm thinking maybe do the off-by-one to shake out bugs, and then fix that eventually - fee sniping isn't going to be an issue for awhile.
120 2013-03-04 09:50:49 <petertodd> I'm really glad I foudn that for fidelity bonds though, some savvy miner could have gotten every one for himself.
121 2013-03-04 09:55:12 <kritCoin_> http://www.wilmott.com/jobsboard/career/26048/Research-Scientist-Financial-Markets-Ny-Or-Ca-Basic-Salary-275k-Bonus-Region-Ny-Ca
122 2013-03-04 09:55:21 <kritCoin_> shocked
123 2013-03-04 09:55:31 <kritCoin_> jobs in finance are crazy
124 2013-03-04 09:55:43 <petertodd> damn, that's crazy, that code is satoshi's, last changed Nov 23 2010
125 2013-03-04 09:57:19 <petertodd> Kinda bizzare too, normally you'd fix it by changing what IsFinal() means, but, this is a potential hard-fork bug if it gets screwed up so...
126 2013-03-04 09:58:24 <sipa> petertodd: but CreateNewBlock is wrong too, no?
127 2013-03-04 09:59:04 <petertodd> Yes, but that's the thing, only AcceptBlock (and by extension IsFinal()) is the hard-fork risk, so you want to fix it everywhere but there.
128 2013-03-04 09:59:07 <sipa> it also just calls IsFinal, while it should call IsFinal(nBestHeight+1) (ie the height of the block being created)
129 2013-03-04 09:59:14 <petertodd> For instance the GUI is broken
130 2013-03-04 09:59:25 <petertodd> Yup, that's what I did to fix it.
131 2013-03-04 09:59:37 <petertodd> I'm waiting for a block to be mined on testnet to be sure that really does fix it
132 2013-03-04 09:59:59 <sipa> i only see a pullreq for changing IsStandard
133 2013-03-04 10:00:01 <sipa> oh, ok
134 2013-03-04 10:00:41 <bitnumus> hi again, i have had Luceo bail on a project, is there anybody here that may be interested in about 30-40hours of work, that they can squeeze in 2-3weeks ?
135 2013-03-04 10:01:00 <petertodd> ...yup, I think that works. getblockcount is 55599, and tx a984595e4fff9d98d45d5a53bee1cd80a749e3260cf80f49dd97ca267b2dd9be has nLockTime 55598
136 2013-03-04 10:01:31 <petertodd> sipa: Anyway, I'll update the pull-req, but this needs more testing.
137 2013-03-04 10:03:47 <sipa> petertodd: yes the hars rule is "nLockTime specifies the block up to and including which the tx cannot be mined", and that rule can't change
138 2013-03-04 10:04:10 <sipa> so IsStandard and CreateNewBlick should be adapted to fit that rule
139 2013-03-04 10:04:18 <sipa> which is what you propose, afaics
140 2013-03-04 10:04:51 <petertodd> yup
141 2013-03-04 10:31:36 <Acciaio> 1kb=1024b or 1000b?
142 2013-03-04 10:33:53 <Quazgaa> technically speaking 1kb == 1000b and 1kib == 1024b
143 2013-03-04 10:34:07 <Acciaio> fee calculating speaking?
144 2013-03-04 10:34:23 <Acciaio> ah ok
145 2013-03-04 10:34:24 <Acciaio> so 1000
146 2013-03-04 10:34:31 <Acciaio> thanks
147 2013-03-04 10:34:44 <kritCoin_> how do you pronounce kib and kb?
148 2013-03-04 10:34:49 <kritCoin_> the difference?
149 2013-03-04 10:37:22 <_dr> kilobyte kibibyte
150 2013-03-04 10:37:43 <_dr> and swap the order ;)
151 2013-03-04 10:38:14 <_dr> see http://xkcd.com/394/ for any further questions
152 2013-03-04 11:12:45 <Graet> --salvagewallet worked a treat, cheers gmaxwell , sipa :D
153 2013-03-04 11:28:41 <kritCoin_> Could part of the miner code be implemented on a shark DSP ?
154 2013-03-04 11:29:08 <kritCoin_> they are very low cost , low energy and used by the military for shell trajectory calculations
155 2013-03-04 11:29:26 <kritCoin_> anyone?
156 2013-03-04 11:29:55 <kritCoin_> http://www.analog.com/en/processors-dsp/sharc/products/index.html
157 2013-03-04 11:30:02 <kritCoin_> The SHARC?? Processor family dominates the floating-point DSP market with exceptional core and memory performance and outstanding I/O throughput. For as little as 319 MFLOPS/dollar, SHARC brings floating-point processing performance to applications where dynamic range is key.
158 2013-03-04 11:30:20 <kritCoin_> usable?
159 2013-03-04 11:31:10 <sipa> FLOPs are useless, we need integer operations
160 2013-03-04 11:31:52 <kritCoin_> so trunc it, jezus
161 2013-03-04 11:31:56 <kritCoin_> duh
162 2013-03-04 11:32:01 <sipa> ?
163 2013-03-04 11:32:52 <sipa> also, 319 MFLOPS/dollar is significantly more expensive than GPUs
164 2013-03-04 11:33:03 <kritCoin_> really?
165 2013-03-04 11:33:19 <kritCoin_> I thought GPU's didnt do MFLOPS
166 2013-03-04 11:33:19 <sipa> high-end GPUs do close to (or already over?) TFLOPS
167 2013-03-04 11:33:47 <kritCoin_> "you need integer operations" how how are GPU's usefull then?
168 2013-03-04 11:33:57 <sipa> just as a comparison
169 2013-03-04 11:34:03 <sipa> they are not used at all for bitcoin
170 2013-03-04 11:34:10 <kritCoin_> GPU's?
171 2013-03-04 11:34:16 <kritCoin_> not used for bitcoin?
172 2013-03-04 11:34:17 <kritCoin_> ok
173 2013-03-04 11:34:20 <sipa> no, floating point operations
174 2013-03-04 11:34:35 <kritCoin_> Sharcs do a lit bit more then FP
175 2013-03-04 11:34:41 <sipa> *sigh*
176 2013-03-04 11:34:43 <sipa> so do GPUs
177 2013-03-04 11:34:57 <kritCoin_> so why are you making this an issue then
178 2013-03-04 11:35:10 <sipa> because FLOPS are typically the only performance number listed
179 2013-03-04 11:35:22 <kritCoin_> so it isnt an issue then
180 2013-03-04 11:35:32 <sipa> so just as a comparison, assuming the speed ratio between integer and floating point ops is similar
181 2013-03-04 11:35:40 <kritCoin_> (usability for mining)
182 2013-03-04 11:35:57 <kritCoin_> thats was not your initial objection, but never mind
183 2013-03-04 11:36:13 <kritCoin_> why assume?
184 2013-03-04 11:36:17 <kritCoin_> you dont know this at all
185 2013-03-04 11:36:25 <kritCoin_> the SHARC is pretty cheap
186 2013-03-04 11:36:46 <sipa> so, assuming 1) the chips you list do the necessary operations 2) they have performance proportional to the FLOPS they indicate, they are far more expensive than GPUs for the same mining power
187 2013-03-04 11:36:56 <kritCoin_> and very little energy consumption, maybe slower, so what, plug in more sharcs
188 2013-03-04 11:37:00 <sipa> assuming they'd only do floating point ops, they are useless at all
189 2013-03-04 11:37:02 <kritCoin_> Sorry I dont assume
190 2013-03-04 11:37:10 <kritCoin_> why would i do that?
191 2013-03-04 11:37:11 <sipa> then look it up and prove me wrong, please!
192 2013-03-04 11:37:23 <kritCoin_> excuse me?
193 2013-03-04 11:37:37 <kritCoin_> I cant go around disproving people who assume stuff in the moment
194 2013-03-04 11:37:44 <sipa> ok
195 2013-03-04 11:38:06 <sipa> then don't :)
196 2013-03-04 11:38:31 <CodeShark> lol
197 2013-03-04 11:40:34 <kritCoin_> funny how loosing an argument results in stalking behavior from the counterparty
198 2013-03-04 11:40:43 <kritCoin_> sad really
199 2013-03-04 11:41:02 <_dr> kritCoin_: at least sipa has an idea what he's talking about
200 2013-03-04 11:41:20 <kritCoin_> how would you know, he just "assumes" , right?
201 2013-03-04 11:41:34 <_dr> since for GPUs there no 1:1 relation of flops ~ integer performance as on CPUs
202 2013-03-04 11:41:41 <kritCoin_> and you just said its kindof ok to stalk after running out of arguments, ... not good
203 2013-03-04 11:42:31 <sipa> wait, stalk?
204 2013-03-04 11:43:00 <kritCoin_> Common Architectural Features      32/40-Bit IEEE Floating-Point Math     32-Bit Fixed-Point Multipliers with 64-Bit Product & 80-Bit Accumulation
205 2013-03-04 11:43:11 <_dr> who cares about FP?
206 2013-03-04 11:43:13 <kritCoin_> it does a lil more then FPM
207 2013-03-04 11:43:15 <_dr> as sipa said, we need int
208 2013-03-04 11:43:19 <sipa> i just consider it extremely unlikely that such a chip would be useful for mining, and i gave my reasoning why - yes it makes a lot of assumptions, but i think these are very reasonable ones
209 2013-03-04 11:43:35 <kritCoin_> http://www.analog.com/en/processors-dsp/sharc/products/index.html
210 2013-03-04 11:43:36 <_dr> if you want FP performance buy a nvidia k20 or an intel mic, they both do 1TFLOP DP
211 2013-03-04 11:43:52 <kritCoin_> _dr, please follow the thread
212 2013-03-04 11:44:08 <sipa> you don't have to believe me, and if i'm wrong, and you build a succesfull hardware mining production business out of it, i'll be very glad to be wrong
213 2013-03-04 11:44:24 <kritCoin_> ok
214 2013-03-04 11:47:25 <_dr> fyi, a dsp does dsp stuff, it's more or less some sort of asic for signal processing. i'd be surprised if it has a vector integer pipeline
215 2013-03-04 11:48:52 <CodeShark> DSPs are optimized for I/O throughput and reproducible performance
216 2013-03-04 11:49:36 <kritCoin_> its pretty generic
217 2013-03-04 11:49:46 <kritCoin_> read the datasheet on sharc
218 2013-03-04 11:50:19 <_dr> i don't want to offend you
219 2013-03-04 11:50:24 <kritCoin_> Once wrap my head around the code a bit I might order a sharc starters kit
220 2013-03-04 11:50:36 <kritCoin_> ok _dr tell me
221 2013-03-04 11:50:39 <_dr> but it's like assuming that maybe your pocket calculator has a sha2 pipeline, maybe we should check it out!
222 2013-03-04 11:51:06 <kritCoin_> hahaha
223 2013-03-04 11:51:13 <kritCoin_> ok
224 2013-03-04 11:51:17 <_dr> almost no off the shelf hardware has large int vector pipelines, which is what you need for fast mining
225 2013-03-04 11:51:21 <_dr> apart for crypto asics
226 2013-03-04 11:51:51 <kritCoin_> I am reading the stuff in SHARC  , gimme a moment please
227 2013-03-04 11:51:54 <CodeShark> 
ACTION imagines programming sha2 using an old HP calculator

228 2013-03-04 11:51:58 <_dr> look at nvidia, they boast a stunning 3 TFLOPS of single precision floating point operations per second
229 2013-03-04 11:52:07 <kritCoin_> crap, they flew to the moon on that
230 2013-03-04 11:52:17 <_dr> and for mining, they suck, because they have almost no integer piplelines, and why would they have it on a gpu?
231 2013-03-04 11:54:45 <kritCoin_> Oh man, this baby as some serious commands
232 2013-03-04 11:54:58 <kritCoin_> ok, it flattens out on 300-400 MFLOPS
233 2013-03-04 11:55:18 <_dr> heh :)
234 2013-03-04 11:56:26 <_dr> that makes my macbook air about 220x faster than your dsp
235 2013-03-04 11:56:31 <_dr> good luck mining on that :)