1 2013-03-23 00:12:45 <MC-Droid> what happened to bitcoin.org?
  2 2013-03-23 00:15:33 <MC-Droid> god now its harder to just get bitcoininstall.exe
  3 2013-03-23 00:36:23 <Billdr> How has no one made a stand-alone client that put's it's wallet file in it's own directory?
  4 2013-03-23 00:48:36 <MiltonBerle> So not sure if this is the place to discuss this, but I am really interested in developing a site to serve rthe bitcoin community in some way.  Not sure what it'd be, but I program in PHP/MySQL - anyone have any suggestions for a web based application/site that might be well received within the community?
  5 2013-03-23 00:52:44 <denisx> gavinandresen: can you give me the link to the rpc locking patches again pls
  6 2013-03-23 00:53:16 <gavinandresen> denisx: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2357
  7 2013-03-23 00:53:24 <denisx> thanks
  8 2013-03-23 00:55:29 <Ry4an> MiltonBerle: the message I hear a lot is "you best serve the bitcoin community by NOT trying to build a site that stores their wallets", so focus on just about any other type of bitcoin site. :)
  9 2013-03-23 00:56:47 <MiltonBerle> Ok, sounds like a plan.
 10 2013-03-23 00:57:04 <MiltonBerle> What about one that wants to make them spend what is in their wallets.
 11 2013-03-23 00:57:08 <MiltonBerle> =)
 12 2013-03-23 00:57:18 <sipa> sounds good
 13 2013-03-23 00:57:30 <MiltonBerle> All my ideas so far have sucked
 14 2013-03-23 01:00:45 <MiltonBerle> What about a site that lets camgirls sell their pics and videos as well as live private skype shows for bitcoin.  But goog luck explaining what bitcoin is to a camgirl.
 15 2013-03-23 01:01:00 <MiltonBerle> Bonus, I get to see the girls videos for free.
 16 2013-03-23 01:01:02 <MiltonBerle> Haha
 17 2013-03-23 01:01:45 <sipa> I believe you may not be the first to think about that.
 18 2013-03-23 01:02:01 <MiltonBerle> Yea I figures
 19 2013-03-23 01:02:11 <MiltonBerle> Damn I am typoing a lot tonight
 20 2013-03-23 01:02:42 <MiltonBerle> What about this thing where you can search for things and it shows you where they are on the net.  I could call it google
 21 2013-03-23 01:03:08 <MiltonBerle> Either way, in all seriousness I do wish I could think of something decent to develop
 22 2013-03-23 01:03:28 <Billdr> there are a few dozen pr0n sites that accept bitcoin already
 23 2013-03-23 01:03:37 <Billdr> I suppose the internet could always use more porn though.
 24 2013-03-23 01:04:02 <MiltonBerle> I know some camgirls that would use my site but who knows - the guys would have to want it.
 25 2013-03-23 01:04:06 <Duly> watch a non techie struggle with using bitcoin and you should get many ideas
 26 2013-03-23 01:04:17 <Duly> on what to work on
 27 2013-03-23 01:04:18 <sipa> MiltonBerle: starting to get off-topic here
 28 2013-03-23 01:04:35 <MiltonBerle> True enough
 29 2013-03-23 01:05:54 <MiltonBerle> I think a game of some type would be cool but I know there are many out there already who use bitcoin.
 30 2013-03-23 01:16:31 <MC-Droid> anyone thought about how the fincen thing affects pools
 31 2013-03-23 01:16:41 <MC-Droid> fincen: pools closed
 32 2013-03-23 01:16:43 <MC-Droid> ?
 33 2013-03-23 01:22:35 <Graet> my pool is not based in usa, and only deals in btc, not fiat
 34 2013-03-23 01:25:27 <MC-Droid> pool ops have to cash in at some point
 35 2013-03-23 01:25:34 <MC-Droid> to pay for servers
 36 2013-03-23 01:26:26 <MC-Droid> and its been a few years since not being in the us has been a good defence from its jurisdiction
 37 2013-03-23 01:26:36 <MC-Droid> with internet things
 38 2013-03-23 01:27:56 <Graet> the pool is owned by a parent company and pays its bills to parent in btc
 39 2013-03-23 01:30:27 <MC-Droid> is that enough?
 40 2013-03-23 01:30:40 <Graet> i think pools that pay direct tofiat will have more issues
 41 2013-03-23 01:31:23 <Graet> fincen shouldnt affect my pool. it might affect some miners tho
 42 2013-03-23 01:32:39 <gavinandresen> MC-Droid: there are plenty of hosting companies that take Bitcoins as payment, no need to convert first.
 43 2013-03-23 01:32:40 <MC-Droid> and of coursr most of those avalons just went to the land of the free
 44 2013-03-23 01:33:19 <gavinandresen> Are there any pools that pay miners in something other than bitcoin?
 45 2013-03-23 01:33:29 <Graet> yes
 46 2013-03-23 01:33:42 <Graet> emc pays dwolla
 47 2013-03-23 01:34:09 <MC-Droid> what about the miner
 48 2013-03-23 01:34:15 <MC-Droid> in the pool
 49 2013-03-23 01:34:20 <MC-Droid> when they cash out
 50 2013-03-23 01:34:25 <Graet> 50btc pays a lot of different ways
 51 2013-03-23 01:34:45 <Graet> miners need to follow laws in thier jurisdiction
 52 2013-03-23 01:35:01 <Graet> it might affect some miners tho  << which is why i said that :)
 53 2013-03-23 01:35:07 <gavinandresen> if they cash out at an exchange, then they probably have nothing to worry about, the exchange deals with all the regulations
 54 2013-03-23 01:38:03 <Graet> though with reent changes in au and us it is time to consult with lawers again, which i am in the process of arranging
 55 2013-03-23 01:39:24 <MC-Droid> i get a feeling the actual technical specifics of bitcoin will be argued in court sooner or later
 56 2013-03-23 01:39:35 <MC-Droid> that will probably be painful to watch
 57 2013-03-23 01:40:15 <Graet> yes
 58 2013-03-23 01:40:21 <Graet> in several countries
 59 2013-03-23 01:41:14 <MC-Droid> i wonder if bitcoins spirit will be intact by the end of this
 60 2013-03-23 01:42:26 <MC-Droid> if courts rule no, the only way to deal with it will be direct technical countermeasures and an acceptance that bitcoin will be smaller than hoped
 61 2013-03-23 01:43:05 <MC-Droid> but if the measures are good enough, still fairly easy to use
 62 2013-03-23 01:44:00 <MC-Droid> and im not even sure any us programmer would feel safe making such adaptions
 63 2013-03-23 01:45:05 <BlueMatt> hmm...seems like a clever (and patient) attacker can pretty easily get a node running with -debug to assert(0)
 64 2013-03-23 01:47:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: how?
 65 2013-03-23 01:47:43 <jgarzik> MC-Droid: Seems like pool op should pay for things with bitcoin
 66 2013-03-23 01:47:52 <BlueMatt> well, node also has to be mining
 67 2013-03-23 01:47:56 <zeiris> Can they do it on a large enough scale to grab >50% and double spend? :D
 68 2013-03-23 01:48:15 <BlueMatt> assert("mempool transaction missing input" == 0); should be triggerable if you send someone a unconfirmable tx which the node then spends
 69 2013-03-23 01:48:48 <Graet> i do where possible
 70 2013-03-23 01:49:06 <Graet> or i try to sell them to people that will use them to buy stuff :D
 71 2013-03-23 01:49:38 <gmaxwell> zeiris: that isn't how bitcoin works.
 72 2013-03-23 01:49:45 <BlueMatt> (the only case where a tx ignores the fCheckInputs is ReacceptWalletTransactions which adds supporting txn...but those supporting txn dont have to be confirmable, they can be orphans
 73 2013-03-23 01:49:45 <zeiris> :(
 74 2013-03-23 01:49:57 <skkgrd> can anyone point me to a good technical paper on Ripple?
 75 2013-03-23 01:50:24 <gmaxwell> skkgrd: if you're talking about ripple.com, no such thing exists yet as far as I know.
 76 2013-03-23 01:50:57 <BlueMatt> essentially impossible, but its possible that is assumed otherwhere and could be triggered in some weird cases
 77 2013-03-23 01:51:00 <denisx> sipa: you also tried the shutdown patch from gavin?
 78 2013-03-23 01:57:28 <MC-Droid> maybe we do need physical cash bitcoins somehow
 79 2013-03-23 01:57:47 <MC-Droid> like, a way to make your own easily
 80 2013-03-23 01:58:00 <MC-Droid> are those security stickers up to the task
 81 2013-03-23 01:58:59 <MC-Droid> one way of getting distributed anon off chain txn
 82 2013-03-23 02:01:38 <lianj> MC-Droid: those would only be bitcoin backed thingys then, no real bitcoin
 83 2013-03-23 02:01:44 <denisx> MC-Droid: https://www.casascius.com
 84 2013-03-23 02:02:04 <MC-Droid> not backed
 85 2013-03-23 02:02:34 <MC-Droid> private key under a security stickers and public key for verification
 86 2013-03-23 02:02:58 <MC-Droid> print em yourself from billstock to ensure security
 87 2013-03-23 02:03:18 <lianj> casascius are nice, but if you introduce people to bitcoin by showing them one of these it often raises more doubts. at least happened to me
 88 2013-03-23 02:03:51 <MC-Droid> break em down and print up smaller denominations occasionally when you come across now silly.large denominations in circulation
 89 2013-03-23 02:03:55 <MC-Droid> could work?
 90 2013-03-23 02:04:07 <lianj> MC-Droid: still, its just bitcoin backed then. if you do a tx (give the coin to another person) its not a btc transaction
 91 2013-03-23 02:04:31 <lianj> its nice though, but not to be confused with bitcoin
 92 2013-03-23 02:05:25 <lianj> its a token coin backed by bitcoin
 93 2013-03-23 02:05:25 <MC-Droid> well its a private key which is as close to "a bitcoin" as you can get anyway
 94 2013-03-23 02:05:55 <MC-Droid> no wwy to ensure it wont be swept after you recieve one though
 95 2013-03-23 02:06:05 <MC-Droid> apart from sweeping it yourself
 96 2013-03-23 02:06:18 <lianj> MC-Droid: see what denisx linked
 97 2013-03-23 02:06:37 <MC-Droid> i know about cascius but he is just one man
 98 2013-03-23 02:08:08 <MC-Droid> i wonder if theres a way to order a LOT of blank bills and stickers and throw them from the rooftops
 99 2013-03-23 02:08:31 <MC-Droid> distribute a program thst makes filling them and breaking them down easy
100 2013-03-23 02:15:28 <MC-Droid> perhaps a promo project for the foundation
101 2013-03-23 02:16:23 <MC-Droid> free blank bitcheques and  security stickers
102 2013-03-23 02:16:51 <MC-Droid> i dont know how much those stickers cost or how well they can keep a key private
103 2013-03-23 02:17:06 <MC-Droid> i bet youd have to foil back it too
104 2013-03-23 02:27:17 <epylar> you can never trust that a private key embedded in a physical object corresponds to an account with money in it
105 2013-03-23 02:27:46 <epylar> even if you can look at the key somehow, the money could be removed at any time, and if you can look at the key without breaking the object, it's even more likely someone else has looked at it and can spend any money in the account
106 2013-03-23 02:28:54 <epylar> the only way to be sure is if you created the object and the key pair, and the object is completely tamper proof
107 2013-03-23 02:29:05 <epylar> and at that point it's just a cold wallet
108 2013-03-23 02:29:49 <MC-Droid> FUCK
109 2013-03-23 02:29:53 <MC-Droid> so obvious
110 2013-03-23 02:30:00 <amincd> What would be the downside of making the block generation time of bitcoin faster when the hard fork is done? More splits?
111 2013-03-23 02:31:02 <_g> amincd: there would be more splits, the faster the block generatin was.. you wold also screw up the reward structure
112 2013-03-23 02:32:06 <amincd> _g the reward structure could be adjusted so that the same number of bitcoins are generated every year, and in total. As for splits, what is the down-side to them? They give the previous block generator an advantage, right? Since they will have a headstart against any one who gets the split
113 2013-03-23 02:34:28 <_g> amincd: i guess wasted work..  that advantage is negligible though since it is random who gets it
114 2013-03-23 02:35:46 <amincd> _g wasted work has a cost I suppose: less of the network hash-rate is dedicated to the largest chain, which makes a 51% attack easier
115 2013-03-23 02:35:56 <amincd> but it would be negligible I think
116 2013-03-23 02:36:19 <amincd> _g any idea what the current network propagation time is, and how it changes with increases in network activity?
117 2013-03-23 02:54:03 <lianj> is there some stupid block that pays out for each share or something?
118 2013-03-23 02:54:10 <veox> amincd: Also, handling splits does not have a linear complexity.
119 2013-03-23 02:55:17 <veox> If a split block gets split, their expansion diminishes proportionally, so the first-level split always wins.
120 2013-03-23 02:56:56 <veox> (Just a thought, peeked in before going to sleep.)
121 2013-03-23 03:10:09 <amincd> veox or any one else: can you expand on the relationship between network size and split-handling? Any ideas on what could be expected with much higher tps rates?
122 2013-03-23 03:41:01 <digitalmagus> How can I query my live block-chain *directly* to extract the various data available? I don't want to go through a third party.
123 2013-03-23 03:49:11 <gmaxwell> digitalmagus: open up the console. type help
124 2013-03-23 03:53:30 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: If I have working code, is it premature to request a BIP number for a UDP protocol?
125 2013-03-23 03:54:34 <rs0> is this something you've been working on in isolation?
126 2013-03-23 03:55:07 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I'd suggest posting about it first, I don't mind allocating a number, but it might be useful to know what it will become first.
127 2013-03-23 04:26:35 <digitalmagus> Are you being sarcastic, or if not, which console are you referring to? --->"<gmaxwell> digitalmagus: open up the console. type help"
128 2013-03-23 04:26:54 <gmaxwell> digitalmagus: the console in bitcoin-qt
129 2013-03-23 04:38:22 <digitalmagus> ah ok, thanks.
130 2013-03-23 06:15:16 <Ant0> morning
131 2013-03-23 06:15:42 <TradeFortress_> morning
132 2013-03-23 06:18:50 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: done
133 2013-03-23 06:25:56 <digitalmagus> does anybody know what charting software blockchain.info uses? Example here: http://blockchain.info/charts/market-cap
134 2013-03-23 06:31:11 <TradeFortress_> digitalmagus, highcharts
135 2013-03-23 06:31:15 <TradeFortress_> inspect element
136 2013-03-23 06:31:26 <ligar> someone jackin with mtgox
137 2013-03-23 06:31:28 <digitalmagus> TradeFortress... thanks!
138 2013-03-23 06:31:41 <pete79> it's high charts is library just released new version, commercial
139 2013-03-23 06:31:46 <digitalmagus> mtgox is getting so many Santoshi dice transactions
140 2013-03-23 06:31:56 <pete79> stupid autocorrect
141 2013-03-23 06:32:32 <digitalmagus> pete79: do you know if a developer license is needed ($590) or just single website license ($90) to do somehting like : http://blockchain.info/charts
142 2013-03-23 06:33:52 <TradeFortress_> single site if single site
143 2013-03-23 06:59:17 <warren> It doesn't appear that The Guardian's 5 minute video about bitcoin is very flattering.  these people they are interviewing aren't doing a very good job.
144 2013-03-23 08:36:32 <sivu> why does this transaction fails in getFromAddress in bitcoinj http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/a9c26b08cb3af241401ede6ca43216757d254be217db9e91a5cc14af4e2c08e5
145 2013-03-23 08:38:12 <wumpus> does anyone know of a tool to query/watch the current balance a list of public keys, if possible without using third party services such as blockexplorer?
146 2013-03-23 09:12:07 <pobri19> so what exactly makes bitcoin take so long to confirm?
147 2013-03-23 09:12:20 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion
148 2013-03-23 09:12:21 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion
149 2013-03-23 09:12:22 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion
150 2013-03-23 09:12:29 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
151 2013-03-23 09:12:30 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
152 2013-03-23 09:12:31 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
153 2013-03-23 09:12:32 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
154 2013-03-23 09:12:35 <pobri19> lol
155 2013-03-23 09:12:58 <warren> Wow, now that you mentioned it several times it seems more legit.
156 2013-03-23 09:13:03 <TradeFortress> scam in case you're wondering
157 2013-03-23 09:14:15 <_W_> I must say, I was really pondering that TradeFortress :p
158 2013-03-23 09:14:16 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
159 2013-03-23 09:14:17 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
160 2013-03-23 09:14:18 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
161 2013-03-23 09:14:18 <hngfdrjhtrjh> v
162 2013-03-23 09:14:19 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
163 2013-03-23 09:14:20 <hngfdrjhtrjh> v
164 2013-03-23 09:14:25 <pobri19> manual spam ftw
165 2013-03-23 09:14:27 <TradeFortress> LOL
166 2013-03-23 09:14:29 <pjorrit_> if only you could ban a message ;p
167 2013-03-23 09:14:29 <pobri19> ctrl+v
168 2013-03-23 09:14:29 <TradeFortress> "v"
169 2013-03-23 09:14:29 <_W_> heh he even manually pastes it
170 2013-03-23 09:14:41 <_W_> pjorrit_: you can't? Get better client
171 2013-03-23 09:14:57 <pjorrit_> you can? how do you do it?
172 2013-03-23 09:15:10 <TradeFortress> /ignore
173 2013-03-23 09:15:19 <Leviathanzz> worst spam attempt ever
174 2013-03-23 09:15:35 <pjorrit_> no i'm actually thinking of banning not a hostmask but a message
175 2013-03-23 09:15:41 <warren> I think his CTRL button broke.
176 2013-03-23 09:15:47 <_W_> pjorrit_: scripting
177 2013-03-23 09:16:08 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
178 2013-03-23 09:16:09 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
179 2013-03-23 09:16:10 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
180 2013-03-23 09:16:11 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
181 2013-03-23 09:16:12 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
182 2013-03-23 09:16:13 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
183 2013-03-23 09:16:14 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
184 2013-03-23 09:16:25 <pobri19> jgarzik,
185 2013-03-23 09:16:28 <pobri19> OneFixt,
186 2013-03-23 09:16:32 <hngfdrjhtrjh> http://redd.it/1aupln lowest rate as free bitcoin 50btconly$1199
187 2013-03-23 09:16:59 <pjorrit_> so uh yea.. why arent more the in here @?
188 2013-03-23 09:21:27 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt, jgarzik: do something
189 2013-03-23 09:36:50 <Varan> I'm wondering how to implement the Bitcoin script engine in Coq in order to verify properties. What kind of properties do you think would be useful to verify?
190 2013-03-23 09:38:17 <Varan> No loop and linearity of the scripts and limited resource consumption (CPU and memory) is what I am thinking about.
191 2013-03-23 09:38:26 <Varan> Any other suggestions
192 2013-03-23 09:38:39 <Varan> Some security properties are hard to define...
193 2013-03-23 09:56:47 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
194 2013-03-23 09:56:48 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
195 2013-03-23 09:56:49 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
196 2013-03-23 09:56:50 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
197 2013-03-23 09:56:51 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
198 2013-03-23 09:57:03 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
199 2013-03-23 09:57:04 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
200 2013-03-23 09:57:05 <fdsgdsghre> http://redd.it/1auqhn  buy 50btc free 2 b itcoin just usd1199
201 2013-03-23 09:59:49 <Scrat> why ban the userid
202 2013-03-23 10:00:59 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
203 2013-03-23 10:01:01 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
204 2013-03-23 10:01:13 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
205 2013-03-23 10:01:14 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
206 2013-03-23 10:01:29 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
207 2013-03-23 10:01:39 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
208 2013-03-23 10:04:43 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
209 2013-03-23 10:04:44 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
210 2013-03-23 10:04:45 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
211 2013-03-23 10:04:46 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
212 2013-03-23 10:04:47 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
213 2013-03-23 10:04:48 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
214 2013-03-23 10:04:49 <fdsbheshre> http://redd.it/1auqu2 buy50bitcoin free2 bitcoin just$1199
215 2013-03-23 10:11:18 <fdsbheshre> ?????????50 Bitcoin + Free extra 2 Bitcoin=1199.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$109.99 5 Bitcoin=$209.99 20 Bitcoin=$599.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin + Free extra 0.5 Bitcoin=$859.99 40 Bitcoin + Free extra 1 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
216 2013-03-23 10:14:57 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
217 2013-03-23 10:14:58 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
218 2013-03-23 10:14:59 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
219 2013-03-23 10:15:00 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
220 2013-03-23 10:15:01 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
221 2013-03-23 10:15:02 <gfdshresh> http://redd.it/1aur5y buy50bitcoin will free 2bitcoin price only$1199
222 2013-03-23 10:15:38 <Scrat> >_>
223 2013-03-23 10:15:48 <saulimus> argh
224 2013-03-23 10:50:20 <rebroad_> I'd like to make a patch to bitcoind so that it can accept blocks from some nodes and trust that the block has already been validated, thereby not needing to use up CPU to do the validation again. What would be the best way to do this? Would it be safe to allow an entry in bitcoin.conf to trust 127.0.0.1 for example?
225 2013-03-23 10:52:19 <gfdshresh> ?????????50 Bitcoin + Free extra 2 Bitcoin=1199.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$109.99 5 Bitcoin=$209.99 20 Bitcoin=$599.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin + Free extra 0.5 Bitcoin=$859.99 40 Bitcoin + Free extra 1 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
226 2013-03-23 12:00:30 <bwen> is it possible with bitcoind to list all transaction of a bitcoin address without creating a wallet/accoun ?
227 2013-03-23 12:01:18 <bwen> I see the function listreceivedbyaddress on the wiki, but no address parameter...
228 2013-03-23 12:12:10 <Matthew-B> Hey guys.
229 2013-03-23 12:17:56 <jouke> bwen: no.
230 2013-03-23 12:18:22 <jouke> The client only keeps track of transactions to address that are in the wallet.
231 2013-03-23 12:23:36 <Matthew-B> Hey guys, I was just wondering would any of you be able to help me with the receiving and giving of bitcoins using something like blockchain api or bitcoind?
232 2013-03-23 12:24:57 <Scrat> Matthew-B: don't ask to ask, just tell us what the problem is
233 2013-03-23 12:30:48 <bwen> jouke: I dont see the problem. Every client has the whole blockchain.. Why couldnt I just see the transactions of 1 address... hell blockchain.info lets you...
234 2013-03-23 12:31:58 <bwen> Maththew-B: sure I can help...https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list rtfm... thats what I'm doing :p
235 2013-03-23 12:33:26 <bwen> Matthew-B ^
236 2013-03-23 12:34:29 <i2pRelay> <anon3030@i2p> hi
237 2013-03-23 12:41:23 <jouke> bwen: do you need performance? Because there are programs that can get what you want out of the blockchain-files.
238 2013-03-23 12:44:13 <bwen> jouke: here is what I ideally wanted to do. Show bitcoin address where to see the bitcoins on my website to my customers. They say from which address they are sending it to my address. that way I can track which customers really paid and how much. And that way I wouldnt have to have a full wallet with privatekeys hooked to the tubes
239 2013-03-23 12:45:14 <bwen> I read the https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained and the "Typical Uses"
240 2013-03-23 12:45:31 <bwen> i'm just concerned about being hacked and having my wallet suddendly emptied
241 2013-03-23 12:53:55 <Varan> I'm wondering how to implement the Bitcoin script engine in Coq in order to verify properties. What kind of properties do you think would be useful to verify?
242 2013-03-23 12:54:05 <Varan> No loop and linearity of the scripts and limited resource consumption (CPU and memory) is what I am thinking about.
243 2013-03-23 12:54:19 <Varan> Any other suggestions?
244 2013-03-23 12:56:30 <bbrox> Hi any one mines on Linux?
245 2013-03-23 12:56:51 <bbrox> I wonder which Catalyst ist most efficient for 5xxx cards. I read that 11.1 is best, albeit we already could use 13.x
246 2013-03-23 12:56:57 <bbrox> see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gw7YPYgMgNNU42skibULbJJUx_suP_CpjSEdSi8_z9U/edit?pli=1#
247 2013-03-23 13:07:16 <canoon> bwen, it seems like a bit of a hack but I think you could just encrypt the wallet some garbage and use that on the server
248 2013-03-23 13:08:12 <bwen> not sure I understand... wouldnt bitcoin-d still be able to transfer bitcoins from it?
249 2013-03-23 13:08:34 <canoon> no because the private keys would be encrypted
250 2013-03-23 13:08:46 <bwen> why put them at all?
251 2013-03-23 13:09:13 <canoon> yeah well if you could find a way you could just blank out the private keys from the wallet.dat
252 2013-03-23 13:09:31 <bwen> a bit like Armory does :]
253 2013-03-23 13:10:09 <bwen> i'm reading this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Merchant_Howto
254 2013-03-23 13:10:32 <bwen> Pre-generating bitcoin addresses. starting to be interresting but still not it.
255 2013-03-23 13:11:35 <bwen> but how do most sites accepting bitcoin do it? They just secure the bitcoin-d within a vpn or firewall?
256 2013-03-23 13:12:13 <bwen> because I like the whole idea of creating an Account per client.
257 2013-03-23 13:12:31 <Scrat> bwen: you can configure bitcoind to not listen
258 2013-03-23 13:12:52 <bwen> Scrat: how do my web script talk to it then?
259 2013-03-23 13:13:02 <canoon> you can still do it the way you want but just pregenerate all the addresses
260 2013-03-23 13:13:27 <Scrat> RPC is another thing. you can have localhost only RPC
261 2013-03-23 13:13:52 <canoon> Scrat, i think your talking about a different but equally important problem
262 2013-03-23 13:14:28 <Scrat> I was talking about the p2p connection
263 2013-03-23 13:14:51 <bwen> at the end of the day it all comes down to how you secure your servers I guess
264 2013-03-23 13:15:01 <canoon> yeah he wants to not have the private keys for the addresses on the server
265 2013-03-23 13:15:24 <bwen> canoon: but still open to alternative. if secure...
266 2013-03-23 13:15:25 <Scrat> sure you can do that, if you're receiving only
267 2013-03-23 13:15:50 <bwen> that would be like ideal, right. No private keys. web server gets hacked... cant do anything
268 2013-03-23 13:16:01 <Scrat> emptying your wallet every day is equally secure though
269 2013-03-23 13:16:03 <Scrat> almost*
270 2013-03-23 13:16:07 <canoon> well they could just replace your private keys with other ones
271 2013-03-23 13:16:14 <canoon> *addresses
272 2013-03-23 13:16:41 <canoon> bwen it seems you can generate a wallet.dat without the private keys using that pywallet
273 2013-03-23 13:16:50 <Scrat> canoon: moot point, if they can replace your private keys they can also replace your addresses
274 2013-03-23 13:17:16 <canoon> yeah sorry thats what i mean
275 2013-03-23 13:18:58 <bwen> I wonder how Armory does it, it still relays on bitcoin-qt
276 2013-03-23 13:20:13 <etotheipi_> hey  bwen
277 2013-03-23 13:20:17 <etotheipi_> sorry I missed your message the other day
278 2013-03-23 13:20:40 <bwen> no worries
279 2013-03-23 13:20:45 <etotheipi_> did you get it figured out?
280 2013-03-23 13:20:52 <etotheipi_> (i.e. change addresses?)
281 2013-03-23 13:21:07 <bwen> I dont even remember xD
282 2013-03-23 13:21:26 <bwen> the balance transfering to a new address thing?
283 2013-03-23 13:21:49 <etotheipi_> yeah
284 2013-03-23 13:22:38 <bwen> yes, its normal. Its how the system works. It is incapable and shouldnt deduct from an address. So it sends the balance to a new address
285 2013-03-23 13:22:48 <etotheipi_> :)
286 2013-03-23 13:22:52 <bwen> you could make the same address but its not recommended
287 2013-03-23 13:23:17 <etotheipi_> you got it
288 2013-03-23 13:25:10 <bwen> its just suprising the first time you see it in your transaction wallets
289 2013-03-23 13:25:24 <MagickFox> Hello, I'm on a fresh install and want to run bitcoin-qt but don't want to wait for the blockchain. When I look at the backup from my old install there are several blk000**.dat files in the blocks folder.
290 2013-03-23 13:25:26 <etotheipi_> bwen: yeah, understandble... but as you noted, there's no real way around it
291 2013-03-23 13:25:35 <MagickFox> how do I import these using bitcoin-qt -loadblock= ?
292 2013-03-23 13:25:45 <MagickFox> do I list them all?
293 2013-03-23 13:26:37 <bwen> etotheipi_: I think if it would be possible to deduct a partial amount from an address the bitcoin system as it exist now could not be.
294 2013-03-23 13:27:32 <etotheipi_> bwen, there's a lot of advantages (i.e. simplicity ) to doing it the way it's done
295 2013-03-23 13:29:22 <canoon> MagickFox, can't you just replace your .bitcoin folder with the previous one?
296 2013-03-23 13:30:14 <MagickFox> I tried that before and it complained to me about the database being invalid or something. I've just run bitcoin-qt loadblock=blocks/blk00000.dat and it seems to be going through them all
297 2013-03-23 13:30:16 <MagickFox> which is quite handy
298 2013-03-23 13:30:49 <MagickFox> was the way the blockchain is stored changed recently?
299 2013-03-23 13:31:02 <canoon> oh cool, i think there might have been a change between 0.7 and 0.8
300 2013-03-23 13:31:04 <MagickFox> didn't it used to be in one big file. Now it appears to split into smaller files
301 2013-03-23 13:31:08 <MagickFox> ahh ic
302 2013-03-23 13:33:47 <MagickFox> mmmm maybe I spoke to soon. Ahh well over half way is better than nothing
303 2013-03-23 14:03:11 <jgarzik> Almost 4,000 downloads of my cpuminer tarball and .exe
304 2013-03-23 14:03:15 <jgarzik> This month
305 2013-03-23 14:03:30 <jgarzik> Haven't touched those tarballs/exe's in... a year?
306 2013-03-23 14:04:21 <Belxjander> jgarzik: do you have any recommended reading for getting into mining? or know anything about setting up an FPGA image to run mining?
307 2013-03-23 15:08:56 <jgarzik> "We are currently at 100 out of the latest 1000 blocks on version 1 (10.00%) and 899 out of the latest 1000 blocks on version 2 (89.90%)"
308 2013-03-23 15:13:26 <honkydong> listreceivedbyaddress API ... is it possible to get the amount recieved by a certain address TO a certain address rather than listing the amount made in the entire wallet from them?
309 2013-03-23 15:18:18 <Sydna> I'm looking for some reference scripts that dilute a bitcoin wallet. just generally splitting it up and sending it around manually. do such things exist?
310 2013-03-23 15:21:56 <kerum> sending from a specific address in a wallet?
311 2013-03-23 15:22:03 <kerum> Sydna
312 2013-03-23 15:22:13 <Sydna> presumably
313 2013-03-23 15:22:41 <Sydna> the aim is just to create a run of random looking TX to obfuscate the origin a little
314 2013-03-23 15:23:11 <kerum> I'd go with armory...
315 2013-03-23 15:23:19 <kerum> it's a multiwallet client
316 2013-03-23 15:23:35 <kerum> and you also have coin control
317 2013-03-23 15:27:19 <jgarzik> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1av3ub/upcoming_network_event_block_v2_lockin/
318 2013-03-23 15:27:23 <jgarzik> (reminder PR push)
319 2013-03-23 15:55:07 <smellymoo> is armory supposed to be buggy and slightly shit?
320 2013-03-23 15:55:42 <jgarzik> no
321 2013-03-23 15:55:44 <smellymoo> memory went up to 1600MB and nothing happened for minutes every time I try and start it and it scans blockchain
322 2013-03-23 15:57:08 <smellymoo> that is some really weak coding, to reach over a gig in used ram in under a minute.
323 2013-03-23 15:58:03 <k9quaint> how big is the block chain these days?
324 2013-03-23 15:58:14 <gonffen> ;;blockchain
325 2013-03-23 15:58:14 <gribble> I do not know about 'blockchain', but I do know about these similar topics: 'blockchainsnapshot'
326 2013-03-23 15:58:17 <smellymoo> any known bug going on? anything to do with the recent faulty block or any other reasonable cause?
327 2013-03-23 15:58:35 <gonffen> 227622
328 2013-03-23 15:59:09 <k9quaint> looks like the block chain size is 5.8G according to http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
329 2013-03-23 15:59:29 <smellymoo> about 2 gig, no? but that is irrelavent, as it shouldn't load the whole thing into memory, that is truely bad coding.
330 2013-03-23 16:01:08 <k9quaint> no, but the OS won't start reclaiming until something else needs the RAM or other thresholds are reached
331 2013-03-23 16:01:35 <gonffen> it only seems to use about 170MB of RAM k9quaint not matter how much RAM I have available
332 2013-03-23 16:01:45 <gonffen> no*
333 2013-03-23 16:02:08 <k9quaint> gonffen: what OS are you using?
334 2013-03-23 16:02:19 <gonffen> windows with bitcoin-qt 0.8.1
335 2013-03-23 16:02:35 <gonffen> windows 7 since it does make a difference
336 2013-03-23 16:02:37 <smellymoo> so why the over 1600MB on mine?
337 2013-03-23 16:02:48 <k9quaint> gonffen: he is talking about armory
338 2013-03-23 16:02:58 <gonffen> ah my bad I haven't been following
339 2013-03-23 16:03:11 <muhoo> ah, so the v2 upgrade might explain the sudden sell-off a few hours ago
340 2013-03-23 16:03:26 <k9quaint> ah, I see
341 2013-03-23 16:03:43 <k9quaint> armory is in Python, and the Python garbage collector is probably just lazing along
342 2013-03-23 16:03:45 <k9quaint> if I had to guess
343 2013-03-23 16:04:38 <smellymoo> that is crap, as it is half freezing everything and the PF goes up to 2GB, so it's not a matter of the memory not being cleaned up, it's leaking and holding onto it.
344 2013-03-23 16:05:09 <k9quaint> its harder to leak memory in a garbage collected language, but not impossible
345 2013-03-23 16:05:48 <OneMiner> smellymoo I used Armory before I saw the same thing. It's the price you pay for the features. On the upside, there's no reason to have it running all the time.
346 2013-03-23 16:05:53 <smellymoo> true, but you just load the whole block chain into memory and not bother unloading. sounds like shit coding. going back to QT
347 2013-03-23 16:06:18 <k9quaint> they can't be loading the whole block chain, or it would be using over 6GB of ram
348 2013-03-23 16:06:22 <smellymoo> doesn't run at all, doesn't get past the intial scan.
349 2013-03-23 16:06:33 <k9quaint> you might have a corrupted block chain
350 2013-03-23 16:06:49 <smellymoo> can be, as it just keeps going up, had to kill it out of bordem.
351 2013-03-23 16:06:57 <OneMiner> smellymoo How much RAM do you have
352 2013-03-23 16:06:58 <OneMiner> ?
353 2013-03-23 16:07:09 <smellymoo> about 2GB in this laptop.
354 2013-03-23 16:07:24 <k9quaint> I don't know how long it would take Armory to initialize from scratch
355 2013-03-23 16:07:37 <OneMiner> I'd run it and let it load. Just give it a ton of time. Make a sandwich and have a shower.
356 2013-03-23 16:07:56 <OneMiner> Smelly, shower. Get it? har har
357 2013-03-23 16:07:57 <smellymoo> to scan 6gb for matching transactions shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
358 2013-03-23 16:07:59 <k9quaint> try having sex with a member of the Swedish bikini team
359 2013-03-23 16:08:12 <k9quaint> I find that most bugs seem like features after
360 2013-03-23 16:08:24 <gonffen> what?
361 2013-03-23 16:08:24 <smellymoo> lol
362 2013-03-23 16:08:37 <muhoo> that's today's wtf.
363 2013-03-23 16:08:51 <gonffen> please clarify: did you have sex with a member of the Swedish bikini team
364 2013-03-23 16:09:11 <OneMiner> And how many bugs did she have?
365 2013-03-23 16:09:22 <muhoo> take it to #bitoin-bragging
366 2013-03-23 16:09:35 <smellymoo> if I had more time I would code a not buggy client. but I rather have sex and make money. oh well... guess I'll give up on amory. see you guys.
367 2013-03-23 16:10:04 <muhoo> smellymoo: use the reference client if you want the latest stuff. or multibit if you really want to run a light client
368 2013-03-23 16:10:23 <k9quaint> gonffen: no, I was suggesting that he might while waiting for his client to scan the block chain
369 2013-03-23 16:10:43 <gonffen> heh
370 2013-03-23 16:10:47 <OneMiner> Armory is good for cold storage and therefore doesn't need to be fast at all.
371 2013-03-23 16:11:02 <OneMiner> IMO
372 2013-03-23 16:11:04 <gonffen> it's funny even though you had too explain it.. haha
373 2013-03-23 16:11:08 <muhoo> paper wallets are good for cold storage :-P
374 2013-03-23 16:11:18 <smellymoo> why not add these features to the main client, ain't it open source?
375 2013-03-23 16:11:20 <OneMiner> Whatever floats your boat.
376 2013-03-23 16:11:21 <muhoo> and really really fast too
377 2013-03-23 16:11:46 <k9quaint> paper airplane wallet, even faster
378 2013-03-23 16:12:23 <smellymoo> man.... is there a serious place to whinge about shit bitcoin software?
379 2013-03-23 16:12:28 <OneMiner> While I don't code I'm in favor of a slow development of bitcoin client software. Being cautious will pay off in the long run with less disasters.
380 2013-03-23 16:12:43 <muhoo> smellymoo: no whinging in open source land. if it's broke, you fix it.
381 2013-03-23 16:12:56 <smellymoo> fair comment.
382 2013-03-23 16:13:03 <muhoo> there is a bug tracker tho
383 2013-03-23 16:13:08 <smellymoo> where?
384 2013-03-23 16:13:26 <muhoo> depends on which client you're using
385 2013-03-23 16:13:31 <smellymoo> not linked from the main website, and didn't spot it
386 2013-03-23 16:13:41 <smellymoo> armory was the bug ridden thing.
387 2013-03-23 16:13:48 <smellymoo> bitcoin-QT
388 2013-03-23 16:13:52 <k9quaint> https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory/issues
389 2013-03-23 16:13:52 <OneMiner> So I think a simple client is best for most purposes. I recomend the standard client for nearly everybody.
390 2013-03-23 16:14:06 <muhoo> smellymoo: https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory
391 2013-03-23 16:14:17 <muhoo> specifically https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory/issues
392 2013-03-23 16:14:32 <smellymoo> thanks. I'll be off :)
393 2013-03-23 16:27:12 <Luke-Jr> sipa: thoughts on removing mock db for test_bitcoin now that we run in a tmp dir?
394 2013-03-23 16:27:20 <Luke-Jr> (assuming it helps with the reorg test)
395 2013-03-23 16:27:39 <sipa> Luke-Jr: fine by me
396 2013-03-23 16:38:52 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: slush and ozcoin use slush's stratum server; btcguild has something proprietary
397 2013-03-23 16:39:07 <hardsoft> Hola
398 2013-03-23 16:39:11 <hardsoft> Hi
399 2013-03-23 16:39:16 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: that's pool server layer.  Underneath is bitcoind
400 2013-03-23 16:39:30 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: yes, the layer that determines the block version???
401 2013-03-23 16:44:28 <viperaus> hi all'
402 2013-03-23 16:48:12 <hardsoft> vv<hardsoft> You know how I can capture a transaction ID and put it on my web server?
403 2013-03-23 16:49:00 <viperaus> hi all - any live users here?
404 2013-03-23 16:49:08 <hardsoft> yes
405 2013-03-23 16:49:15 <viperaus> ah great
406 2013-03-23 16:49:21 <veox> viperaus: just ask.
407 2013-03-23 16:49:35 <veox> (or state)
408 2013-03-23 16:49:51 <viperaus> im trying to install a frontend for litecoin - cant get the hashrates to display correctly
409 2013-03-23 16:50:09 <Luke-Jr> viperaus: wrong channel, this is #bitcoin-dev, not #scams
410 2013-03-23 16:50:16 <hardsoft> hablo espa?ol solo ;)
411 2013-03-23 16:51:37 <viperaus> i konw this is bitcoin-dev, seems like there is minimal info out there for litecoin
412 2013-03-23 16:52:58 <veox> viperaus: there is #litecoin and perhaps #litecoin-dev
413 2013-03-23 16:53:21 <Luke-Jr> viperaus: because litecoin is just a scam
414 2013-03-23 16:53:48 <viperaus> wasnt getting any responses there, ill try again though;
415 2013-03-23 16:55:11 <viperaus> could you please explain (briefly) why its a scam?
416 2013-03-23 16:56:26 <Luke-Jr> it's off-topic here
417 2013-03-23 16:56:58 <Luke-Jr> it's basically a classical pump and dump pyramid scheme
418 2013-03-23 16:56:58 <viperaus> ok, fair enough :) - ill jump on the other channels - thanks for your help guys
419 2013-03-23 16:57:17 <rs0> Luke-Jr: people say the same thing about bitcoin
420 2013-03-23 16:57:17 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no offence, but if you say that, the same applies to Bitcoin
421 2013-03-23 16:57:32 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not really
422 2013-03-23 16:57:46 <sipa> bitcoin is an experiment, and litecoin (and several other altcoins) are just an experiment on top of that
423 2013-03-23 16:57:56 <rs0> Luke-Jr: as I understand it, Litecoin is just a fork of bitcoin with a 2.5 minute targeted time between blocks and some kind of PBKDF hashing function
424 2013-03-23 16:57:58 <sipa> some are really scams imho
425 2013-03-23 16:58:02 <Luke-Jr> sipa: Bitcoin has never made misleading promises, and is not likely to end with late adopters losing out
426 2013-03-23 16:58:29 <rs0> Luke-Jr: who is "Bitcoin?"
427 2013-03-23 16:58:36 <sipa> i see no false claims on litecoin.org
428 2013-03-23 16:58:48 <viperaus> sorry - didnt mean to start anything here (should have kept mouth shut :))
429 2013-03-23 16:59:06 <sipa> imho, litecoin isn't all that interesting, as there are far more interesting changes that can be made to experiment with
430 2013-03-23 16:59:20 <sipa> but that doesn't make it a scam
431 2013-03-23 16:59:37 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I do.
432 2013-03-23 17:01:31 <Luke-Jr> I see one explicit false claim, and a couple of implicit ones on the front page
433 2013-03-23 17:02:56 <Luke-Jr> and while the Bitcoin community has experts trying to constantly correct even the promotional/positive myths about Bitcoin, the Litecoin community perpetuates such myths to improve their value
434 2013-03-23 17:04:01 <Eliel> 
ACTION is curious about the explicit false claim. which is it?

435 2013-03-23 17:05:01 <rs0> Eliel: the stuff about faster transactions/confirmations is considered dubious, and the stuff about the total number of currency units to be produced is weird
436 2013-03-23 17:05:20 <sipa> well those are both objectively true
437 2013-03-23 17:05:39 <rs0> sipa: they claim that litecoin enables "instant" payments
438 2013-03-23 17:06:08 <sipa> ok, that'd be a very broad interpretation of instant
439 2013-03-23 17:06:10 <rs0> sipa: and just because blocks come in faster doesn't mean that six litecoin blocks gives you the same level of security as six bitcoin blocks
440 2013-03-23 17:06:28 <sipa> rs0: depends on what kind of security, but for some models, it does
441 2013-03-23 17:07:24 <sipa> everything where you don't assume that sustaining a high hashrate for a longer time is harder, actually
442 2013-03-23 17:07:32 <Eliel> rs0: even so, 7 or 8 litecoins confirmations is very close to as good as 6 in bitcoin, as long as the attacker doesn't have close to 50% of hashing power.
443 2013-03-23 17:08:48 <rs0> sipa: i agree with you though that there are far more interesting changes to experiment with. it looks like there's a lot of room for innovation in the blockchain and litecoin isn't really attempting to provide it, it's just tweaking some tunables
444 2013-03-23 17:09:21 <Luke-Jr> Eliel: "It differs from its parent Bitcoin in that can be efficiently mined with consumer-grade hardware."
445 2013-03-23 17:10:05 <Luke-Jr> it's not true to say Litecoin transactions are any faster to confirm
446 2013-03-23 17:11:35 <Luke-Jr> 8 litecoin blocks deep is the same as 2 bitcoin blocks deep
447 2013-03-23 17:14:09 <Eliel> Luke-Jr: in terms of total proof of work, yes. In terms of propability of producing long enough fork to overtake the rest of the network when the attacker has <50%, 7 or 8 is enough to match Bitcoin.
448 2013-03-23 17:15:11 <sipa> ^
449 2013-03-23 17:16:09 <amiller> "has close to 50% of hashing power" is a crappy attack model, you're better of looking at what the cost would be to acquire/rent that much power for a short time
450 2013-03-23 17:18:16 <sipa> amiller: well, ok, acquire and rent have very different results here
451 2013-03-23 17:19:07 <Eliel> amiller: true, in litecoin's case, that'd definitely be cheaper unless the number of confirmations used is 24.
452 2013-03-23 17:20:04 <sipa> if you're talking about the price of commanding a given % of the total hash power during a fixed time frame, yes
453 2013-03-23 17:20:13 <amiller> then that's how long you should wait before making an irreversible action at an _equal value_ in either litecoin or bitcoin
454 2013-03-23 17:20:34 <Eliel> still, that only matters when the amount transacted is close or above to the limit.
455 2013-03-23 17:20:50 <rs0> the fact that you can effectively CPU mine litecoin works both ways, doesn't it? you could rent a shitload of EC2 instances for a few hours and get a lot of mining power temporarily, that doesn't work with bitcoin
456 2013-03-23 17:21:15 <Eliel> rs0: I think it'll, eventually.
457 2013-03-23 17:21:20 <sipa> yes, and more effective CPU miners makes you also more vulnerable for botnets
458 2013-03-23 17:22:31 <Eliel> CPU is pretty much useless for litecoin these days.
459 2013-03-23 17:22:41 <jgarzik> Eliel: not for massive botnets
460 2013-03-23 17:24:01 <sipa> the price to acquire X% of the total mining power for a given period of time via botnets is certainly higher for bitcoin and litecoin, and that is imho likely to remain the case after the same amount of value has been invested into the development and creation of mining hardware for both
461 2013-03-23 17:25:05 <sipa> but that is an inherent disadvantage to having better mining chances on consumer hardware - a claim they do make (and have perhaps failed at)
462 2013-03-23 17:25:10 <Luke-Jr> as soon as litecoin ASICs are made, litecoin is basically dead
463 2013-03-23 17:25:33 <amiller> also an equal-budget litecoin attack would cause a lot less damage and yield less gain for the attacker
464 2013-03-23 17:30:42 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I fear out little discussion about BIP 34 is probably boring to most of the rest of the list - what say ye on taking if off-list?
465 2013-03-23 17:32:44 <sipa> 
ACTION votes to keep it here

466 2013-03-23 17:33:37 <Sydna> is there any reason that so many bitcoin clients are running version 0.6.0? it seems crazy high for such an old build.
467 2013-03-23 17:34:10 <brute> bots
468 2013-03-23 17:34:14 <brute> maybe
469 2013-03-23 17:34:19 <Sydna> I wrote a quick python script to connect to random nodes and ask for the version name. almost half are 0.6.0 so far.
470 2013-03-23 17:34:35 <Luke-Jr> Sydna: 0.6.0 was a good version
471 2013-03-23 17:34:42 <sipa> Sydna: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
472 2013-03-23 17:34:52 <sipa> that's a dump of the database my crawler creates
473 2013-03-23 17:35:07 <Luke-Jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html <-- summary of seeds.txt by branch
474 2013-03-23 17:35:28 <Sydna> oh I realise the data is available, I wanted to implement something by hand
475 2013-03-23 17:35:33 <Luke-Jr> Sydna: also, not all 0.6.0.x are necessarily old. I still maintain it (up until the final release after the pending hardfork)
476 2013-03-23 17:35:33 <sipa> sure