1 2013-04-01 00:00:00 <RoboTeddy> gwillen: good call
2 2013-04-01 00:06:25 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: why you gotta ban the representative of Darwin?
3 2013-04-01 00:07:49 <gmaxwell> Cause group immunity is an aspect of fittness too.
4 2013-04-01 01:07:07 <fanquake> I've had Qt on osx 10.8 crash twice in a row just now, throwing this error -> Assertion failed: (internal_key.size() >= 8), function ExtractUserKey, file ./db/dbformat.h, line 96.
5 2013-04-01 01:07:39 <fanquake> On the third opening, I was told I needed to reindex, so I started that, and the client has just crashed mid reindex
6 2013-04-01 01:10:29 <jspilman> what version of Qt?
7 2013-04-01 01:10:34 <fanquake> 0.8.1
8 2013-04-01 01:11:46 <sipa> fanquake: what OS, hardware?
9 2013-04-01 01:14:12 <fanquake> Intel Core i7, 3.4 GHz, 16 GB running osx 10.8.3. One 120GB SDD and one 3TB HDD.
10 2013-04-01 01:18:10 <Luke-Jr> oooh
11 2013-04-01 01:18:14 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin-Qt new name..
12 2013-04-01 01:18:16 <Luke-Jr> we could call it
13 2013-04-01 01:18:19 <Luke-Jr> CuteCoin!
14 2013-04-01 01:18:23 <gmaxwell> groan
15 2013-04-01 01:18:25 <gmaxwell> hah
16 2013-04-01 01:18:41 <gmaxwell> it's doubly ironic in that the interface is pretty ugly.
17 2013-04-01 01:18:50 <Luke-Jr> well, I like it.
18 2013-04-01 01:19:10 <ThomasV> Luke-Jr: SolidCoin
19 2013-04-01 01:19:14 <gmaxwell> I'm mostly going on other people's opinions. I don't use it except for testing.
20 2013-04-01 01:21:00 <Luke-Jr> ACTION ponders how hard it would be to distort the Qt4 Dance into a CuteCoin Dance <.<
21 2013-04-01 01:21:07 <sipa> wth are you talking about?
22 2013-04-01 01:21:39 <Luke-Jr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s
23 2013-04-01 01:27:16 <sipa> eh, ok...
24 2013-04-01 01:27:24 <Luke-Jr> lol
25 2013-04-01 01:36:01 <Trader024> does anyone know if transaction are taking 24hrs because of no fees
26 2013-04-01 01:38:02 <pigeons> which transaction
27 2013-04-01 01:44:59 <Trader830> pigeons: an instawallet transaction. the recieving address has no record on block explorer\\
28 2013-04-01 02:06:35 <fanquake> So now Qt won't open at all now, can i nuke everything apart from wallet.dat and redownload the block chain from scratch?
29 2013-04-01 02:07:11 <fanquake> Last error was slightly different
30 2013-04-01 02:07:15 <fanquake> Assertion failed: (!pthread_mutex_lock(&m)), function lock, file /opt/local/include/boost/thread/pthread/recursive_mutex.hpp, line 105.
31 2013-04-01 02:08:09 <WACOMalt> Hey guys. I was told to ask this in here. I have a friend who just updated bitcoin, (moved his old userdata to a backup folder and installed fresh) we let it sync the full blockchain, about 9 hours.
32 2013-04-01 02:08:17 <WACOMalt> Copied in the old wallet file only.
33 2013-04-01 02:08:45 <WACOMalt> and it shows his old transactions, but they are all shown as unconfirmed. even though they happened over a year ago and should be confirmed 1000s of times by now
34 2013-04-01 02:10:09 <sipa> are you it is synchronized?
35 2013-04-01 02:10:15 <sipa> *sure
36 2013-04-01 02:10:18 <WACOMalt> it says it is
37 2013-04-01 02:10:24 <WACOMalt> doesnt say "out of sync" or anything
38 2013-04-01 02:10:58 <WACOMalt> should I copy over, instead of only his wallet, the whole data folder of the old backup?
39 2013-04-01 02:11:02 <sipa> no
40 2013-04-01 02:11:03 <gwillen> I noted in #bitcoin my suspicion that maybe the client got confused because the keys were added _after_ the blocks with those txes were already synced
41 2013-04-01 02:11:08 <gwillen> because that's the only theory I can come up with
42 2013-04-01 02:11:25 <sipa> gwillen: shouldn't be a problem
43 2013-04-01 02:11:33 <gwillen> ACTION nods
44 2013-04-01 02:11:37 <gwillen> Then I have no theories. :-)
45 2013-04-01 02:11:40 <sipa> WACOMalt: connected to the network?
46 2013-04-01 02:11:42 <jspilman> they wouldn't show in GUI at all if it hadn't done a resync, right?
47 2013-04-01 02:11:45 <WACOMalt> yes it is
48 2013-04-01 02:11:48 <jspilman> I mean rescan
49 2013-04-01 02:12:01 <sipa> WACOMalt: you can try starting with -rescan, but I doubt that will help
50 2013-04-01 02:12:02 <WACOMalt> it has done a resync
51 2013-04-01 02:12:13 <sipa> may take 10 minutes
52 2013-04-01 02:12:18 <WACOMalt> oh rescan.. well I will try
53 2013-04-01 02:12:31 <WACOMalt> would it be more likely to work if I gave it all the old blockchain files too?
54 2013-04-01 02:12:35 <WACOMalt> these are from about a year ago
55 2013-04-01 02:12:40 <sipa> no, won't help at all
56 2013-04-01 02:12:54 <WACOMalt> hah it just updated
57 2013-04-01 02:12:57 <WACOMalt> all say confirmed now
58 2013-04-01 02:13:02 <sipa> :)
59 2013-04-01 02:13:04 <WACOMalt> no idea why it took 8 hours for that to happen
60 2013-04-01 02:13:09 <WACOMalt> but... yay!
61 2013-04-01 02:15:42 <gwillen> WACOMalt: yay. :-)
62 2013-04-01 02:18:30 <sipa> WACOMalt: nice to hear; i do wonder what the problem was though
63 2013-04-01 02:36:49 <WACOMalt> sipa: me too, but with my friends network setup I'd believe just about anything coulda been the issue.
64 2013-04-01 02:43:05 <TheButterZone> https://github.com/brainwallet/brainwallet.github.com/issues/15
65 2013-04-01 02:44:27 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: what does blockchain.info have to do with that?
66 2013-04-01 02:44:52 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: the network behavior hasn't changed, see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees wrt the relability of low priority transactions.
67 2013-04-01 02:45:21 <TheButterZone> when you hit Send Transaction on brainwallet, it uses blockchain.info/pushtx
68 2013-04-01 02:45:54 <Trader830> instantwallet dosen't pay fees. so would it be possible for a tx to take 24 hours? one of the tx's went through, the other one hasnt but it is a large tx
69 2013-04-01 02:47:12 <TheButterZone> trader830: has it even been broadcast? the recipient should check their address on blockchain.info/address/1...
70 2013-04-01 02:47:52 <TheButterZone> i just got 1 BTC from an instawalleter and it queued for about 4 hours before broadcast
71 2013-04-01 02:49:29 <TheButterZone> gmaxwell: my txs are from one address to one address, nearly all of them have gotten at least 1 confirm in 60 minutes despite being zero fee. only in the past week have they begun to take longer than that as a rule
72 2013-04-01 02:49:55 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: if they're not even relaying its because you haven't met the relay rules. Please see the page I linked to.
73 2013-04-01 02:51:24 <Trader830> TheButterZone: I dont think it has. theres been no tx to the recieving address
74 2013-04-01 02:52:12 <Trader830> can i search the chain for a transaction of a certain size
75 2013-04-01 02:52:31 <TheButterZone> gmaxwell: so blockchain is getting >15k bytes per minute of free txs, so its shutting them down as DOS?
76 2013-04-01 02:52:34 <Trader830> TheButterZone: instawallet shows it as sent
77 2013-04-01 02:52:56 <gmaxwell> ::sigh:: No.
78 2013-04-01 02:53:44 <gmaxwell> For free a transaction to be relayable it must be smaller than 10kb, have no outputs smaller than 0.01 btc, and have a priority greater than 57600000.
79 2013-04-01 02:54:02 <gmaxwell> I'm going to guess you failed one or more of these criteria, probably the last one at least.
80 2013-04-01 02:55:20 <Trader830> gmaxwell: if i sent 45 btc thru instawallet (it cant pay fees) then are they larger than 10kb and did they fail to send maybey? it hasnt relayed or anything
81 2013-04-01 02:56:05 <gmaxwell> Trader830: are you sure instawallet can't pay fees?
82 2013-04-01 02:56:13 <sipa> is instawallet running with a patched bitcoind that doesn't pay fees?
83 2013-04-01 02:56:27 <Trader830> gmaxwell: thats what the site says.
84 2013-04-01 02:57:07 <Trader830> one tx went through ok but it was small. the 45btc is nowherer its been over 12 hrs
85 2013-04-01 02:57:15 <gmaxwell> What does it say exactly? a like?
86 2013-04-01 02:57:24 <gmaxwell> er a link?
87 2013-04-01 02:57:30 <sipa> Q: I sent Bitcoins from my Instawallet and they have not arrived yet. What happened?
88 2013-04-01 02:57:33 <sipa> A: Please be patient. Instawallet currently includes no fees in transactions (this feature is planned however) and as such they can sometimes take a very long time to confirm. Please wait at least 24 hours before contacting me. You can check Bitcoin Charts or blockchain.info for currently unconfirmed transactions.
89 2013-04-01 02:57:38 <sipa> from its FAQ
90 2013-04-01 02:57:46 <warren> Why would you voluntarily put over $4k on a wallet that you don't control?
91 2013-04-01 02:57:47 <sipa> ...
92 2013-04-01 02:58:15 <gmaxwell> warren: because the expert management means you don't get stuck with issues like fees being set unwisely.
93 2013-04-01 02:58:22 <Trader830> Q: I sent Bitcoins from my Instawallet and they have not arrived yet. What happened? A: Please be patient. Instawallet currently includes no fees in transactions (this feature is planned however) and as such they can sometimes take a very long time to confirm. Please wait at least 24 hours before contacting me. You can check Bitcoin Charts or blockchain.info for currently unconfirmed transactions.
94 2013-04-01 02:58:44 <Trader830> i had no idea the acct had any btc in it
95 2013-04-01 02:58:48 <Trader830> i just found it out last night
96 2013-04-01 02:58:52 <warren> o_O
97 2013-04-01 02:58:54 <Trader830> got the btc when they were cheap
98 2013-04-01 02:59:10 <gmaxwell> ah, well, you know ... those bitcoin.. pretty worthless still....
99 2013-04-01 03:00:37 <Trader830> lol. i mean they werent sent to the address so where could they be? my connection was spotty as hell last night
100 2013-04-01 03:00:39 <gmaxwell> lol createrawtransaction [...] '{}' results in a transaction with an output with an empty script.
101 2013-04-01 03:01:37 <sipa> Trader830: still at instawallet; they probably don't know it though
102 2013-04-01 03:02:45 <Trader830> sipa: ok so by the nature of bitcion they have to have a record of where they are
103 2013-04-01 03:03:26 <TheButterZone> 44987712.4417 transaction priority, if my math is correct
104 2013-04-01 03:04:24 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: great, so I suppose it'll cross the rule in another couple blocks, enh?
105 2013-04-01 03:04:40 <Belxjander> Trader830: whats the Instawallet address?
106 2013-04-01 03:05:02 <Belxjander> ACTION is hunting up ALL the wallet service sites to try and find an old stash of BTC he got a while ago
107 2013-04-01 03:05:47 <gmaxwell> ACTION sets up some fake wallet service sites to capture Belxjander's most commonly used passwords.
108 2013-04-01 03:06:48 <Trader830> Belxjander: it had a tx the day i put money in it a few years ago, and i cant track where the txs went cause its in instawallet at that point
109 2013-04-01 03:07:15 <Belxjander> gmaxwell: I'm only searching for the recovery options and have a new password for all these services ;)
110 2013-04-01 03:07:16 <Trader830> even though i sent money it didnt use the wallet id listed instwallet used another wallet and idk if i can find the tx id
111 2013-04-01 03:08:40 <warren> BTW, the lack of a fee isn't a limitation of instawallet. Other instances of instawallet do pay a fee.
112 2013-04-01 03:08:48 <TheButterZone> 22 more blocks to cross, if my math is correct
113 2013-04-01 03:09:07 <gmaxwell> warren: I assume what they did is patch out fee paying in bitcoind while not providing any alternative.
114 2013-04-01 03:09:40 <gmaxwell> warren: presumably they were concerned about people bitdust flooding them and causing high fees.
115 2013-04-01 03:09:57 <warren> oh dear
116 2013-04-01 03:10:03 <sipa> warren: "other instances" ?
117 2013-04-01 03:10:16 <warren> sipa: instawallet is open source, there's others out there
118 2013-04-01 03:10:56 <Trader830> so whats gonna happen to txs like mine? they just dont get sent?
119 2013-04-01 03:11:05 <warren> well, http://wallet.it.cx/ This used to be one.
120 2013-04-01 03:12:14 <TheButterZone> what the heck, this went from 90 to 89 https://blockchain.info/tx-index/64093504/0
121 2013-04-01 03:12:25 <warren> gmaxwell: I expect a few things will be left behind May 15th
122 2013-04-01 03:13:28 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: suuure it did.
123 2013-04-01 03:16:09 <TheButterZone> stretching the limits of dyslexia, not like 88 could be mistaken for 90, assuming one ticked up
124 2013-04-01 03:17:12 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: could just be a bug in the site.
125 2013-04-01 03:17:39 <gmaxwell> Though I'd probably put more money on you being crazy. (no offense, I'd also assume I was imagining it too! :P )
126 2013-04-01 03:19:39 <TheButterZone> piuk needs to put this as an error page for /pushtx http://www.hetemeel.com/haha/157353.YOUR+CURRENT+TRANSACTION+PRIORITY%20IS+INSUFFICENT+TO+BE+ZERO-FEE%21.jpg
127 2013-04-01 03:19:42 <Trader830> sipa: you think theres a good chance instawallet will fiind the coins?
128 2013-04-01 03:20:02 <sipa> Trader830: "find" ?
129 2013-04-01 03:20:34 <sipa> Trader830: their wallet believes it sent them; the rest of the world doesn't know about this, and thinks it's still there
130 2013-04-01 03:20:34 <Trader830> well they are listed as 0 in my account but they wern't sent to the address either so they ahve to be "in" thier servers right
131 2013-04-01 03:20:51 <sipa> they'll keep retransmitting the transaction, and hopefully at some point it will be picked up by the network
132 2013-04-01 03:20:56 <sipa> if it doesn't, poke them
133 2013-04-01 03:21:11 <Trader830> ok thank you
134 2013-04-01 03:21:15 <gmaxwell> TheButterZone: after colliding with a big stash of someone elses coin, I'd think you'd be turned off from the whole brainwallet/vanity wallet thing.
135 2013-04-01 03:21:31 <warren> What benefit does the operator of instawallet get for running the service?
136 2013-04-01 03:21:51 <sipa> warren: visibility, i guess
137 2013-04-01 03:22:26 <Trader830> i found 3 different accounts with btc stashed
138 2013-04-01 03:22:36 <Trader830> next im gonan run some old btc clients i have and see
139 2013-04-01 03:34:14 <TheButterZone> gmaxwell: it was a vanity, with java.security.SecureRandom as RNG
140 2013-04-01 03:34:23 <TheButterZone> and someone collided with me
141 2013-04-01 03:34:43 <TheButterZone> possibly. there hasnt been any withdrawals from that vanity except by me
142 2013-04-01 03:48:23 <WACOMalt> Hey devs, one more question. I was told in #bitcoin that two clients can use the same wallet without issue. I am running the same wallet in armory on two different machines. I see one discrepancy in that one of the computers shows a new transaction as having 1 confirmation, the other says 0. if I check blockchain.info it has 1.
143 2013-04-01 03:49:09 <WACOMalt> is this discrepancy something to worry about?
144 2013-04-01 03:50:21 <chovy> howdy
145 2013-04-01 03:50:41 <chovy> i'm not communicating very well i guess in #bitcoin so I figured i'd ask here....
146 2013-04-01 03:51:18 <chovy> I'm building a site where userA can send an invoice to UserB and I want UserB to be able to send a message back that says it has been paid. How would UserA know who the payment came from?
147 2013-04-01 03:51:47 <sipa> WACOMalt: you'll have to check with the author of the client, but in general, using the wallet on two systems in dangerous; i believe armory deals well with it, but the reference client certainly doesn'y
148 2013-04-01 03:51:49 <chovy> i'm not handling the payment at all.
149 2013-04-01 03:51:57 <sipa> chovy: you use a different receive address for each payment
150 2013-04-01 03:52:09 <WACOMalt> sipa "the reference client" ?
151 2013-04-01 03:52:17 <sipa> WACOMalt: Bitcoin-Qt
152 2013-04-01 03:52:21 <WACOMalt> oh
153 2013-04-01 03:52:40 <chovy> sipa: i see. thanks
154 2013-04-01 03:52:53 <chovy> what if someone re-used an address...is there anyway to track who it came from?
155 2013-04-01 03:52:55 <WACOMalt> does armory have a channel?
156 2013-04-01 03:53:02 <sipa> WACOMalt: #bitcoin-armory
157 2013-04-01 03:53:07 <WACOMalt> thanks
158 2013-04-01 03:53:26 <sipa> chovy: not really; but do you care who pays something: you're only interested in what invoice was paid
159 2013-04-01 03:54:09 <chovy> sipa: i'm just thinking from a usability perspective. If I re-use an address, it would be hard to identify who sent it? Do I know which address it was sent from?
160 2013-04-01 03:54:37 <sipa> chovy: yes and no; it's better to assume no
161 2013-04-01 03:54:58 <sipa> chovy: if someone sends you money without knowing it will arrive safely, that's their problem really