1 2013-06-28 00:00:04 <runeks> nsh: Looks like it's already up: https://github.com/runeksvendsen/findablock
2 2013-06-28 00:00:14 <runeks> nsh: Do let me know if you can get it to work. I might have to create a README
3 2013-06-28 00:00:28 <nsh> thanks!
4 2013-06-28 00:02:29 <runeks> nsh: I was planning on finishing it by actually making sure that if a block is found (very unlikely) that the block is announced to the network, and the user gets paid. But I never got around to that. It does work for mining though, and will notify you if you find a block on the website.
5 2013-06-28 00:03:12 <nsh> runeks, right
6 2013-06-28 00:03:36 <nsh> runeks, using native js sha256?
7 2013-06-28 00:03:58 <nsh> apparently the latest firefox js runs are "close to not terrible" speed
8 2013-06-28 00:04:00 <nsh> *at
9 2013-06-28 00:04:31 <runeks> nsh: Using CryptoJS IIRC.
10 2013-06-28 00:04:35 <TheLordOfTime> runeks: any idea what the average testnet block time is?
11 2013-06-28 00:04:51 <runeks> nsh: It's a really shitty implementation though, just proof-of-concept.
12 2013-06-28 00:05:11 <nsh> runeks, right
13 2013-06-28 00:05:11 <shesek> is there someone here with access to bitcointalk's statistics?
14 2013-06-28 00:05:29 <runeks> nsh: So it's controlled by a timer, to prevent it from hanging the browser window (Javascript isn't multi-threaded). So I get around 220 hashes per seconds.
15 2013-06-28 00:05:51 <nsh> hmm
16 2013-06-28 00:05:56 <shesek> I'm building some web-based project for Bitcoin, and wondering which browsers I should support
17 2013-06-28 00:06:15 <nsh> i wonder if there's a more variable way to do it without sucking all the cycles
18 2013-06-28 00:06:25 <shesek> my guess is that most bitcoin users are somewhat tech-savvy and use modern browsers, but I wonder how many people would care if I drop support for IE <9
19 2013-06-28 00:06:27 <nsh> maybe in one of these async javascript platforms
20 2013-06-28 00:06:48 <shesek> why not use a webworker?
21 2013-06-28 00:07:01 <nsh> shesek, just wrap the latest IE installer in candy and kittens and serve it to anyone hitting the site with an old browser
22 2013-06-28 00:07:07 <nsh> shesek, problem should solve itself
23 2013-06-28 00:07:20 <shesek> I'm display a message to older browsers, with a link to browserhappy
24 2013-06-28 00:07:36 <shesek> but still... I'm wondering how many users it'll effect
25 2013-06-28 00:07:39 <nsh> shesek, oh nice. (wasn't aware of web-workers)
26 2013-06-28 00:08:00 <nsh> ACTION checks http://caniuse.com/#search=webworker
27 2013-06-28 00:08:04 <shesek> what is that shitty proof-of-concept implementation? I joined after you started talking about
28 2013-06-28 00:08:30 <shesek> s/$/ it/
29 2013-06-28 00:08:31 <nsh> https://github.com/runeksvendsen/findablock
30 2013-06-28 00:08:45 <nsh> javascript bitcoin miner
31 2013-06-28 00:09:11 <shesek> and you can kinda simulate webworker with an iframe
32 2013-06-28 00:09:41 <nsh> shesek, how would that go?
33 2013-06-28 00:10:11 <super3> shesek, web mining?
34 2013-06-28 00:10:16 <shesek> just create an iframe and execute that code in there; it should get its own thread and not block the primary window UI
35 2013-06-28 00:10:27 <nsh> oh, simple
36 2013-06-28 00:10:33 <shesek> (it might depend on the browser, perhaps some won't create a separate thread, I'm not sure)
37 2013-06-28 00:11:01 <nsh> i wonder how much editing would be required to support mining pools
38 2013-06-28 00:11:08 <runeks> nsh: Added instructions: https://github.com/runeksvendsen/findablock
39 2013-06-28 00:11:27 <nsh> it might be somewhat nonsilly to allow a bunch of people who like a project on the web to dedicate a tab to slowly crowdfunding it with their cycles
40 2013-06-28 00:11:35 <shesek> and wouldn't a javascript implementation that uses CPU (or anything CPU-based really) takes non-realistic times to generate?
41 2013-06-28 00:12:07 <nsh> shesek, not after january when dan kaminsky replaces the PoW algorithm with something that can only be solved with HTML5
42 2013-06-28 00:12:21 <runeks> nsh: The reason I made it was to demonstrate that anyone can mine. It really isn't useful for actually helping anything. At least not at 230 hashes per second.
43 2013-06-28 00:12:31 <shesek> "can _only_ be solved with HTML5"?
44 2013-06-28 00:12:44 <nsh> shesek, jokes :)
45 2013-06-28 00:13:08 <shesek> :)
46 2013-06-28 00:13:21 <nsh> runeks, there's a lot of browsers out there...
47 2013-06-28 00:13:24 <shesek> I did hear about them planning to switch the PoW function in some conference
48 2013-06-28 00:13:34 <runeks> TheLordOfTime: Nope. I don't know the average block time of testnet. I'd guess it's set to 10 minutes like Bitcoin proper, but I think it varies a lot because the difficulty jumps up and miners retract the hashing power.
49 2013-06-28 00:13:35 <shesek> but wasn't sure they're actually doing that... are they?
50 2013-06-28 00:13:45 <nsh> shesek, the consesus is "not likely"
51 2013-06-28 00:13:48 <shesek> I heard something like "it won't last until the end of the year" or something
52 2013-06-28 00:14:05 <nsh> but dan kaminsky was super-confident about that assertion on the panel
53 2013-06-28 00:14:19 <nsh> to mostly entertainment and minor chagrin
54 2013-06-28 00:15:25 <TheLordOfTime> runeks: ehh figures
55 2013-06-28 00:15:32 <TheLordOfTime> blocks do seem slower
56 2013-06-28 00:15:45 <runeks> nsh: True. If a billion people mined at 230 hashes per second, someone would find a block, on average, every 4?? days.
57 2013-06-28 00:16:12 <super3> basically even with millions of people running it you would make at most like $5
58 2013-06-28 00:16:21 <super3> its not worth it
59 2013-06-28 00:16:32 <super3> unless you implemented some sort of webgl miner
60 2013-06-28 00:16:43 <super3> then you might get a reasonable hash rate
61 2013-06-28 00:16:50 <nsh> mmm
62 2013-06-28 00:16:57 <nsh> would be interesting to see
63 2013-06-28 00:17:10 <gribble> Error: This url is not on the whitelist.
64 2013-06-28 00:17:10 <nsh> ;;title http://bitcoin.biniok.net/gl.html
65 2013-06-28 00:17:15 <nsh> shup gribble
66 2013-06-28 00:17:23 <nsh> "This is a demo page that shows how to mine bitcoins via Javascript and WebGL. "
67 2013-06-28 00:17:26 <shesek> anyone running a website targeted at Bitcoin users and mind sharing browser statistics?
68 2013-06-28 00:18:13 <super3> shesek, i am
69 2013-06-28 00:18:28 <shesek> awesome :)
70 2013-06-28 00:18:35 <nsh> shesek, bitcointalk stats for nov 2011: http://bitcoinstats.org/post/browserstats.png
71 2013-06-28 00:18:35 <shesek> all I really need to know is the % of users with IE < 9
72 2013-06-28 00:18:37 <super3> shesek, trust me the numbers don't add up ive already looked into this
73 2013-06-28 00:18:40 <nsh> *bitcoinstats
74 2013-06-28 00:18:45 <runeks> super3: I know. I made as a counter-argument to the people saying you need expensive hardware to mine bitcoins, and that it's impossible for normal people. I mean, they were using that argument as though they thought you needed special access to something. I made this to demonstrate that *anyone* can mine. It's just a matter of how fast you do it.
75 2013-06-28 00:18:59 <shesek> nsh, oh cool, I didn't know they published that
76 2013-06-28 00:19:16 <nsh> shesek, was linked from a forum post probably parenthetically to make a point
77 2013-06-28 00:19:18 <nsh> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52728.20
78 2013-06-28 00:19:24 <super3> runeks, good point
79 2013-06-28 00:19:25 <shesek> no specific IE version in there, but a total market share of 6.8% is pretty good
80 2013-06-28 00:19:47 <super3> i guess you could actually make something useful if you implmented bitcoinj's new microtransactions and a web miner
81 2013-06-28 00:20:05 <nsh> runeks, wouldn't it have been easier to just say "everyone can win a lottery, but people who can buy a million lottery tickets a week will win more often"?
82 2013-06-28 00:20:17 <nsh> then again, coding is better than explaining things
83 2013-06-28 00:20:32 <runeks> shesek: So you're saying that if I create an IFRAME with the actual mining stuff, it won't block the tab? The thing is though, that I would like a responsive UI. It an incrementing hash showing, and a hash rate showing as well, so it can't block the IFRAME either.
84 2013-06-28 00:20:33 <super3> nsh, unless its not commented
85 2013-06-28 00:20:44 <nsh> hehe
86 2013-06-28 00:20:50 <runeks> nsh: Sure. But not nearly as fun.
87 2013-06-28 00:20:58 <nsh> ACTION nods
88 2013-06-28 00:21:03 <super3> the only proper way to do this any actually make something useful is to make a browser based coin
89 2013-06-28 00:21:07 <runeks> nsh: Also, one thing is an explanation. Another thing is experiencing it yourself.
90 2013-06-28 00:21:15 <nsh> indeed
91 2013-06-28 00:21:16 <super3> and*
92 2013-06-28 00:21:20 <shesek> runeks, just send an status update to the parent window every `(++i % 1000) == 0` or something?
93 2013-06-28 00:21:22 <nsh> super3, lolcatcoin?
94 2013-06-28 00:21:47 <super3> nsh, probably would work out
95 2013-06-28 00:21:49 <runeks> super3: Browser-based coin?
96 2013-06-28 00:22:02 <runeks> shesek: How would I do that exactly?
97 2013-06-28 00:22:04 <super3> lol blocks embeded in lolcat memes
98 2013-06-28 00:22:43 <runeks> shesek: Oh, so you're saying only run the miner in the iframe, and display the UI in the other frame?
99 2013-06-28 00:22:54 <nsh> runeks, sounds right
100 2013-06-28 00:23:04 <runeks> nsh: Sounds like a job for you :)
101 2013-06-28 00:23:42 <nsh> i have taken a solemn vow of nonproductivity. but if i suffer a relapse it'll be first on my list of projects
102 2013-06-28 00:24:01 <runeks> nsh: Cool. Non-productivity can be good.
103 2013-06-28 00:24:09 <runeks> nsh: I'm not very productive these days either.
104 2013-06-28 00:24:31 <runeks> Which is demonstrated by me sitting up at 4:20 AM on IRC.
105 2013-06-28 00:24:37 <nsh> ACTION smiles
106 2013-06-28 00:25:03 <shesek> runeks. display the UI in the main window, do all the computations inside an iframe
107 2013-06-28 00:25:15 <nsh> does your name literally mean like glyph or something in danish, runeks?
108 2013-06-28 00:25:15 <super3> https://www.khronos.org/webcl/
109 2013-06-28 00:25:23 <shesek> and send status updates to the main window from the iframe
110 2013-06-28 00:25:23 <super3> http://bennolan.com/2011/04/28/proof-of-work-in-js.html
111 2013-06-28 00:25:34 <super3> those too links provide some guidance
112 2013-06-28 00:25:42 <runeks> shesek: Right. Makes sense. How do you communicate with an iframe though?
113 2013-06-28 00:26:01 <super3> if you want to actually implement something like this you need to use webcl or something like it to access the gpu
114 2013-06-28 00:26:09 <shesek> runeks, the iframed window can access the parent window using `parent`
115 2013-06-28 00:26:13 <super3> runeks, ajax?
116 2013-06-28 00:26:14 <runeks> nsh: It means "Rune", my first name "K" for my middle name "Kj??r" and "S" for my last name "Svendsen". That's all :).
117 2013-06-28 00:26:29 <nsh> right
118 2013-06-28 00:26:34 <shesek> runeks, so `window.update_statuc = function() { ... }` on the main window can be accessed as `parent.update_status()` in the iframe
119 2013-06-28 00:26:46 <nsh> i meant does Rune mean rune in Danish, but that's probably a silly question