1 2013-07-12 01:44:32 <jaekwon> are there any docs or wiki that explains the architecture in more detail, like CTxUndo
  2 2013-07-12 01:49:54 <gmaxwell> What are you trying to do? (where I suggest depends on what you're trying to accomplish)
  3 2013-07-12 01:50:53 <jaekwon> i am trying to understand 90% of the architecture as quickly as possible
  4 2013-07-12 01:51:26 <jaekwon> and assess whether bitcoind works for my coin
  5 2013-07-12 01:53:23 <gmaxwell> jaekwon: ah, well there is no replacement for reading the code. I'm not sure using this code base does you much good if what you're doing isn't bitcoin??? even if it happens to work today, it may not work tomorrow, since the only thing we're comitted to supporting is bitcoin and we may/will/do randomly change it in ways that improves Bitcoin performance but may break you.
  6 2013-07-12 01:54:23 <jaekwon> gotcha. thanks gmaxwell
  7 2013-07-12 03:08:24 <Diablo-D3> you know
  8 2013-07-12 03:08:27 <Diablo-D3> when cosbycoin returns
  9 2013-07-12 03:08:33 <Diablo-D3> I have the perfect gif for this
 10 2013-07-12 03:08:44 <Diablo-D3> http://i.imgur.com/MKDFQ39.gif
 11 2013-07-12 03:25:09 <gjs278> lets pump and dump a coin on btc-e
 12 2013-07-12 03:25:14 <gjs278> lets make a coin
 13 2013-07-12 04:19:21 <h2odysee> is the 0.0001 transaction fee mandatory? or is there a way around it?
 14 2013-07-12 07:20:15 <TD> good morning
 15 2013-07-12 07:20:55 <i2pRelay> <PoohBear@i2p> good morning
 16 2013-07-12 07:27:05 <TD> out of curiousity, why do you use i2p rather than tor?
 17 2013-07-12 07:27:38 <i2pRelay> <PoohBear@i2p> I use both things mate.
 18 2013-07-12 09:25:11 <bazyl> Hey there
 19 2013-07-12 09:25:49 <bazyl> I'm working on a bitcoin framework for macs right now. I've reached a point where I would really need some coins on a testnet3 network. How can I get those?
 20 2013-07-12 09:27:53 <daybyter> bitcoin framework?
 21 2013-07-12 09:28:01 <daybyter> to access exchanges?
 22 2013-07-12 09:28:38 <bazyl> to build a native Mac clients
 23 2013-07-12 09:28:45 <bazyl> wallet ones I mean
 24 2013-07-12 09:29:13 <bazyl> framework is a maccy name for libraries, really ;) sorry for confusion :P
 25 2013-07-12 09:32:38 <daybyter> ah...ok...I'm working on trading stuff...
 26 2013-07-12 09:32:50 <daybyter> in java...should run on a mac, too...
 27 2013-07-12 09:35:31 <bazyl> ;)
 28 2013-07-12 09:35:44 <bazyl> getting back to the subject
 29 2013-07-12 09:35:55 <bazyl> seems I have to mine some coins on my own then, right? :)
 30 2013-07-12 09:38:00 <fanquake> bazyl It'd help if you post and address
 31 2013-07-12 09:39:00 <bazyl> fanquake: mnU6WX7X5kboQPAUsq2h7zQB5HUmQ379Ea
 32 2013-07-12 09:39:20 <bazyl> thanks in advance
 33 2013-07-12 10:54:21 <booblw> in the year after the ominous Muslim Brotherhood gained power, and with her husband Mohammed Morsi dominated parliament as president, attacked the Egyptian military one, and the background were millions of demonstrators in the streets, its against Morsis imposition of strict Sharia law and against protested inability to get to grips with the economic collapse. The coup was led by defense minister and army chief General Abdel
 34 2013-07-12 10:54:23 <booblw> Fattah al-Sisi. Significantly el-Sissi was brought as a devout Muslim, and more recently General Morsi in his last year of office. He was educated in Washington and at the Pentagon leadership is in good standing. The fact that he lead the coup, indicates the profound rejection of the Brotherhood in Egypt. Al-Sissi announced on the night of Wednesday (July 03, 2013), that the Chairman of the Constitutional Court to act as
 35 2013-07-12 10:54:25 <booblw> provisional president and set up an interim government of technocrats will, which will actively Irish the country to early presidential and parliamentary elections. He was flanked here by Christians, the secular opposition and Muslim leaders.
 36 2013-07-12 10:54:27 <booblw> Al-Sissi pointed out that the entire effort of the army, to reach a national dialogue and reconciliation, welcomed by all groups and (only) will be blocked by President Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood.
 37 2013-07-12 10:54:30 <booblw> The anger is directed against the United States
 38 2013-07-12 10:54:32 <booblw> Perhaps the most important aspect of the mass mobilization of protesters in recent weeks was the clearly anti-American character of the street protests, which culminated in the decision of the military to take control. Protesters carried homemade posters with them, denouncing Obama and his ambassador in Cairo, Anne Patterson.
 39 2013-07-12 10:54:34 <booblw> Anne Patterson became the special target of protests. She had on 18 June Remarks drop, which should discourage the anti-protesters-Morsi. She told the Egyptians: "Some people think that the street actions would be better than elections. . Honestly, I and my government are deeply skeptical about "In an even more detailed interview in May with the Egyptian Ahram Online refused the diplomat to take a critical stance towards Morsi
 40 2013-07-12 10:54:36 <booblw> and said:" The fact is that they held a legitimate election and have won. Of course it is a challenge to deal with a new government. But at the state level, for example, we are still connected to the same military and civilian personnel and thus receive the same and long-established relationships. "[1]
 41 2013-07-12 10:54:38 <booblw> The actions of the military were also against the explicit intervention of U.S. President Obama and the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, performed. Obama called on the Egyptian President and Dempsey telephoned the Chief of Staff Sedki Sobhi. They hoped to dispel the triple crisis between the regime, the army and the protest movement. Now Obama stands as more than stupid. [2]
 42 2013-07-12 10:54:41 <booblw> Characteristically, the Saudi King Abdullah and the leaders of the United Arab Emirates - with the notable exception of the Emir of Qatar, a pro-Muslim Brotherhood supporters - welcomed the military action in Egypt. [3]
 43 2013-07-12 10:54:43 <booblw> DEBKAfile, a news blog with proximity to Israeli military and intelligence circles, says the Egyptian military had acted with the tacit support of Saudi Arabia and other conservative Gulf states. Obama should highlight the annual U.S. military aid in the amount of 1.3 billion U.S. dollars to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAR would stand in for it. Also - as DEBKAfile - would the Saudis, the VAR and other Gulf states such as Bahrain
 44 2013-07-12 10:54:45 <booblw> and Kuwait, "immediately provide substantial funds to support Egypt's economy. The Egyptian masses should be made aware that, in a well gef??hren economy would be guaranteed a minimum standard of living, and no one should go hungry, as under the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood. According to our (DEBKAfile) sources, the Saudis and the VAR promised to catch up with the funds of Qatar, which flowed into the coffers of the Muslim
 45 2013-07-12 10:54:47 <booblw> Brotherhood in Cairo last year of. These are the huge sum of 13 billion dollars, "[4]
 46 2013-07-12 10:56:59 <hoolandi> Uhh
 47 2013-07-12 11:00:15 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
 48 2013-07-12 11:00:17 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
 49 2013-07-12 11:00:19 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
 50 2013-07-12 11:00:21 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
 51 2013-07-12 11:00:23 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
 52 2013-07-12 11:00:26 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
 53 2013-07-12 11:00:28 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
 54 2013-07-12 11:00:30 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
 55 2013-07-12 11:00:32 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
 56 2013-07-12 11:00:35 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
 57 2013-07-12 11:00:37 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
 58 2013-07-12 11:00:39 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
 59 2013-07-12 11:00:41 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
 60 2013-07-12 11:00:43 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
 61 2013-07-12 11:00:45 <saulimus> wtf
 62 2013-07-12 11:00:46 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
 63 2013-07-12 11:00:48 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
 64 2013-07-12 11:00:50 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
 65 2013-07-12 11:00:52 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
 66 2013-07-12 11:00:54 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +m by wizkid57
 67 2013-07-12 11:00:56 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
 68 2013-07-12 11:00:59 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
 69 2013-07-12 11:01:01 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
 70 2013-07-12 11:01:03 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
 71 2013-07-12 11:01:06 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
 72 2013-07-12 11:01:08 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
 73 2013-07-12 11:01:10 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
 74 2013-07-12 11:01:12 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
 75 2013-07-12 11:01:14 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
 76 2013-07-12 11:01:16 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
 77 2013-07-12 11:01:18 <kjj> I'm hoping that is a copy/paste accident, but I ignored him anyway
 78 2013-07-12 11:01:19 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
 79 2013-07-12 11:01:21 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
 80 2013-07-12 11:01:23 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
 81 2013-07-12 11:01:26 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
 82 2013-07-12 11:01:27 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
 83 2013-07-12 11:01:30 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
 84 2013-07-12 11:01:32 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
 85 2013-07-12 11:01:34 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
 86 2013-07-12 11:01:36 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
 87 2013-07-12 11:01:39 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
 88 2013-07-12 11:01:41 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
 89 2013-07-12 11:01:43 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
 90 2013-07-12 11:01:45 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
 91 2013-07-12 11:01:47 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +m by wizkid57
 92 2013-07-12 11:01:47 <PiZZaMaN2K> yeah whats going on... lol
 93 2013-07-12 11:01:50 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
 94 2013-07-12 11:01:52 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
 95 2013-07-12 11:01:54 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
 96 2013-07-12 11:01:56 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
 97 2013-07-12 11:01:58 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
 98 2013-07-12 11:02:01 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
 99 2013-07-12 11:02:03 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
100 2013-07-12 11:02:05 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
101 2013-07-12 11:02:07 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
102 2013-07-12 11:02:10 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
103 2013-07-12 11:02:12 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
104 2013-07-12 11:02:14 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
105 2013-07-12 11:02:16 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
106 2013-07-12 11:02:16 <nsh> gmaxwell,
107 2013-07-12 11:02:18 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
108 2013-07-12 11:02:21 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
109 2013-07-12 11:02:23 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
110 2013-07-12 11:02:25 <iphone5S> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
111 2013-07-12 11:02:35 <nsh> ty
112 2013-07-12 11:02:52 <gmaxwell> no, thank you! wtf. weird spammer.
113 2013-07-12 11:06:22 <hoolandi> Totally weird
114 2013-07-12 11:07:07 <hoolandi> Guys do you know if blockexplorer here http://blockexplorer.com/testnet is for testnet3?
115 2013-07-12 11:07:11 <Chicca> hi devs
116 2013-07-12 11:08:18 <hoolandi> (Is there any other active testnet at the moment?)
117 2013-07-12 11:12:20 <jchp> hoolandi: you mean testnet explorer? http://pool.qdoop.net:18331/chain/Testnet3
118 2013-07-12 11:14:07 <hoolandi> Great, thanks
119 2013-07-12 11:15:05 <jchp> np
120 2013-07-12 11:21:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
121 2013-07-12 11:21:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
122 2013-07-12 11:21:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
123 2013-07-12 11:21:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
124 2013-07-12 11:21:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
125 2013-07-12 11:21:14 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
126 2013-07-12 11:21:17 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
127 2013-07-12 11:21:17 <MCM-Mike> gmaxwell, sorry to ask can you contact some other OPs to join #bitcoin-de #bitcoin-otc-eu
128 2013-07-12 11:21:19 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
129 2013-07-12 11:21:21 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
130 2013-07-12 11:21:23 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
131 2013-07-12 11:21:25 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
132 2013-07-12 11:21:28 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
133 2013-07-12 11:21:30 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
134 2013-07-12 11:21:32 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
135 2013-07-12 11:21:34 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
136 2013-07-12 11:21:36 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
137 2013-07-12 11:21:39 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
138 2013-07-12 11:21:41 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
139 2013-07-12 11:21:43 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +m by wizkid57
140 2013-07-12 11:21:45 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
141 2013-07-12 11:21:47 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
142 2013-07-12 11:21:50 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
143 2013-07-12 11:21:52 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
144 2013-07-12 11:21:54 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
145 2013-07-12 11:21:56 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
146 2013-07-12 11:21:59 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
147 2013-07-12 11:22:01 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
148 2013-07-12 11:22:02 <hoolandi> Wow, netsplits are still a thing?
149 2013-07-12 11:22:03 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
150 2013-07-12 11:22:05 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
151 2013-07-12 11:22:07 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
152 2013-07-12 11:22:09 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
153 2013-07-12 11:22:12 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
154 2013-07-12 11:22:14 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
155 2013-07-12 11:22:16 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
156 2013-07-12 11:22:18 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
157 2013-07-12 11:22:21 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
158 2013-07-12 11:22:23 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
159 2013-07-12 11:22:25 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
160 2013-07-12 11:22:27 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
161 2013-07-12 11:22:29 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
162 2013-07-12 11:22:32 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
163 2013-07-12 11:22:34 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
164 2013-07-12 11:22:36 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +m by wizkid57
165 2013-07-12 11:22:38 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
166 2013-07-12 11:22:39 <pigeons> broken bot i hope and not just a jerk
167 2013-07-12 11:22:40 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
168 2013-07-12 11:22:43 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
169 2013-07-12 11:22:45 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
170 2013-07-12 11:22:47 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
171 2013-07-12 11:22:49 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
172 2013-07-12 11:22:52 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
173 2013-07-12 11:22:53 <kjj> time to put +r back on the channel?
174 2013-07-12 11:22:54 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
175 2013-07-12 11:22:56 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
176 2013-07-12 11:22:58 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
177 2013-07-12 11:23:00 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
178 2013-07-12 11:23:03 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
179 2013-07-12 11:23:05 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
180 2013-07-12 11:23:07 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
181 2013-07-12 11:23:09 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
182 2013-07-12 11:23:11 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
183 2013-07-12 11:23:14 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
184 2013-07-12 11:23:16 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
185 2013-07-12 11:23:18 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
186 2013-07-12 11:23:20 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
187 2013-07-12 11:23:22 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
188 2013-07-12 11:23:25 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
189 2013-07-12 11:23:27 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
190 2013-07-12 11:23:29 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +m by wizkid57
191 2013-07-12 11:23:31 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
192 2013-07-12 11:23:33 <t7> whomever runs qdoop.net needs to hire a designer... that colour scheme is... wow
193 2013-07-12 11:23:34 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
194 2013-07-12 11:23:36 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
195 2013-07-12 11:23:38 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
196 2013-07-12 11:23:40 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
197 2013-07-12 11:23:42 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
198 2013-07-12 11:23:45 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
199 2013-07-12 11:23:47 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
200 2013-07-12 11:23:49 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo __burrito1 anticw arekinath ayecee by wizkid57
201 2013-07-12 11:23:51 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ben_turas bleastie BTCOxygen caktux by wizkid57
202 2013-07-12 11:23:53 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo cccyRegeaneWolfe cereal7802 Dagger2 eags by wizkid57
203 2013-07-12 11:23:56 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo eoil_doer forgot Forrie forsetifox by wizkid57
204 2013-07-12 11:23:58 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo FourthDr GordonG3kko handle harmagent by wizkid57
205 2013-07-12 11:24:00 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo jp_uk L-M LorenzoMoney Luke-Jr by wizkid57
206 2013-07-12 11:24:02 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo m0gliE makomk_ Michhell_ mkm by wizkid57
207 2013-07-12 11:24:04 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oo Mossel Ne}{sus by wizkid57
208 2013-07-12 11:24:07 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo peper ph8 PiZZaMaN2K Roadhog by wizkid57
209 2013-07-12 11:24:09 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo ryan`c Shishire_ Shooelware ssinc by wizkid57
210 2013-07-12 11:24:11 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Subo1978 Subo1978_ Syolaar tahnok by wizkid57
211 2013-07-12 11:24:13 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo TaKeN TelOoSRS TheSeoen tinnoec by wizkid57
212 2013-07-12 11:24:13 <Ry4an> hrm, this isn't going to end well.
213 2013-07-12 11:24:16 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo Tiraspol toonX Oinylylyly whiteyonenh by wizkid57
214 2013-07-12 11:24:18 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin +oooo wingcom wurx Zammo Zeronic by wizkid57
215 2013-07-12 11:24:20 <Chicca> Modus #bitcoin -o Michhell_ by wizkid57
216 2013-07-12 11:24:31 <t7> can i do ignore just for this session ?
217 2013-07-12 11:24:44 <t7> or is /ignore permanent
218 2013-07-12 11:24:52 <jchp> t7: you can set ignores that timeout in irssi
219 2013-07-12 11:24:58 <AusBitBank> wtf..
220 2013-07-12 11:25:10 <jchp> t7: /help ignore
221 2013-07-12 11:25:13 <iwilcox> pigeons: Nah, a jerk, jerking around in #bitcoin too :(
222 2013-07-12 11:25:15 <Ry4an> t7: that's up to your client.  As long as you don't /save them they'd be gone on restart
223 2013-07-12 11:42:42 <sw0rdfish> hi
224 2013-07-12 11:45:03 <puzzy> hi sw0rdfish
225 2013-07-12 11:45:16 <sw0rdfish> hey puzzy
226 2013-07-12 11:45:27 <sw0rdfish> What programming language do I need to learn to develop
227 2013-07-12 11:45:39 <matjeh_> c
228 2013-07-12 11:45:54 <sw0rdfish> I know abit of c
229 2013-07-12 11:46:03 <matjeh_> perfect
230 2013-07-12 11:46:07 <sw0rdfish> I would need to learn C sockets right?
231 2013-07-12 11:47:09 <CheckDavid> What's the difference between C and C++ ?
232 2013-07-12 11:47:40 <TD> can we take the learning to program talk somewhere else please?
233 2013-07-12 11:47:41 <sw0rdfish> C++ is object oriented
234 2013-07-12 11:48:00 <sw0rdfish> I just need some guidance from someone smarter than me
235 2013-07-12 11:48:51 <kjj> hmm.  (C==C++) returns true, so they are the same
236 2013-07-12 11:49:20 <TD> interesting observation kjj
237 2013-07-12 11:50:18 <kjj> Bjarne screwed up.  he should have named it ++C
238 2013-07-12 11:51:22 <nsh> lol kjj
239 2013-07-12 11:51:46 <nsh> yeah, but he started with C and then incremented if after the project's inception
240 2013-07-12 11:52:02 <pigeons> http://faadooindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5699_Difference-between-C-C++-language_faadooindia.com_.jpg
241 2013-07-12 11:52:49 <nsh> he covered the basics...
242 2013-07-12 11:52:58 <sipa> kjj: how about ++c == c++ ?
243 2013-07-12 11:53:08 <puzzy> or VBA
244 2013-07-12 11:54:33 <kjj> sipa: it is a trick question.  all variations along that theme return true (if I recall correctly without looking it up right now)
245 2013-07-12 11:55:05 <puzzy> mi michagogo
246 2013-07-12 11:55:08 <puzzy> can somebody talk with me 32 bit?
247 2013-07-12 11:55:12 <puzzy> 1
248 2013-07-12 11:55:14 <puzzy> 2
249 2013-07-12 11:55:16 <puzzy> 3
250 2013-07-12 11:55:20 <michagogo> .....
251 2013-07-12 11:55:40 <gmaxwell> You've got me. Another gibberish emitter.
252 2013-07-12 11:56:17 <kjj> was there a discussion where +r for the channel mode was rejected?  these guys aren't registered
253 2013-07-12 11:56:51 <petertodd> jgarzik: wanna get on that yearly itch to rewrite IRC? this time with anti-spam fidelity bonds?...
254 2013-07-12 11:57:02 <gmaxwell> it was +r temporarily, but freenode services have been going down and leaving us unable to talk in here.
255 2013-07-12 11:58:01 <kjj> ahh, ok.  I remember that
256 2013-07-12 11:58:04 <TD> sipa: libsecp256k1 bug report: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236477.20
257 2013-07-12 12:00:32 <matjeh_> struct C { int operator++(int) { return 42; } int operator++() { return 9000; } } c;
258 2013-07-12 12:00:36 <matjeh_> where is your god now
259 2013-07-12 12:01:06 <sipa> TD: thanks, i don't follow tbe forum anymore
260 2013-07-12 12:01:10 <sipa> the comment looks correct
261 2013-07-12 12:03:12 <hoolandi> petertodd: Great comments about libzerocoin BTW
262 2013-07-12 12:07:28 <nsh> hoolandi, link?
263 2013-07-12 12:12:14 <hoolandi> It's from the mailing list. Let me see...
264 2013-07-12 12:13:40 <hoolandi> From this thread: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20130705140140.GA23949%40netbook.cypherspace.org&forum_name=bitcoin-development
265 2013-07-12 12:16:11 <nsh> danke
266 2013-07-12 12:23:19 <parker__> Das insolvenzbedrohte Zypern hat drei Tage Zeit, um sechs Milliarden Euro aufzutreiben, schreibt die Zeitung ???RBC Daily??? am Freitag.
267 2013-07-12 12:23:22 <parker__> Die Europ??ische Zentralbank (EZB) will am Montag den zyprischen Banken den Geldhahn zudrehen, wenn bis dahin kein neuer Rettungsplan vorliegt.
268 2013-07-12 12:23:24 <parker__> Wie der Chef der Eurogruppe, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, sagte, stellt die EZB nur kreditf??higen Banken die Notkreditlinie (Emergency Liquidity Assistance, ELA) zur Verf??gung.
269 2013-07-12 12:23:27 <parker__> Ohne den Notkredit stehen die zwei gr????ten Banken des Landes, Laiki Bank und die Bank of Cyprus, vor der Zahlungsunf??higkeit. Nach EZB-Angaben kommt die Notkreditlinie ELA f??r zahlungsschwache Geldh??user im absoluten Krisenfall zum Einsatz. Wie das fr??here Vorstandsmitglied der EZB, Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa, jedoch betonte, erlaubt diese Formulierung einen gewissen Handlungsspielraum. ???Theoretisch sind alle damit einverstanden, dass die Nothilfe
270 2013-07-12 12:23:28 <parker__> zwar zahlungsunf??higen, aber kreditf??higen Instituten bereitgestellt werden kann. Bei Finanzproblemen ist der Unterschied zwischen diesen beiden Begriffen nicht so eindeutig???, sagte er.
271 2013-07-12 12:26:57 <MC1984> emergency liquid assistance
272 2013-07-12 12:27:05 <MC1984> like the bottl of scotch i keep in my desk?
273 2013-07-12 12:28:15 <nsh> 
ACTION takes notes

274 2013-07-12 12:28:33 <nsh> echo "MC1984's desk" >> scotch-reserves.txt
275 2013-07-12 12:28:45 <nsh> can't be too careful...
276 2013-07-12 12:30:00 <perrry> The insolvency threatened Cyprus has three days to raise six billion euros, the newspaper "RBC Daily" writes on Friday.
277 2013-07-12 12:30:02 <perrry> The European Central Bank (ECB) will on Monday the Cypriot banks turn off the tap, if by then there is no new rescue plan.
278 2013-07-12 12:30:04 <perrry> As the head of the euro group, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said the ECB will only credit-qualified banks Notkreditlinie (Emergency Liquidity Assistance, PA) are available.
279 2013-07-12 12:30:06 <perrry> Without the emergency loan are the two largest banks in the country, Laiki Bank and the Bank of Cyprus, before the insolvency. According to ECB data, the ELA is Notkreditlinie for payment weak financial institutions for use in absolute crisis. As the former board member of the ECB, Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa, but stressed this formulation allows a certain leeway. "Theoretically, all agree that the relief can be provided while insolvent, but
280 2013-07-12 12:30:09 <perrry> credit-qualified institutions. With financial problems, the difference between these two terms is not so clear, "he said.
281 2013-07-12 12:30:11 <perrry> Cyprus has meanwhile rejected the planned compulsory levies on bank deposits. "About a reduction (of deposits) we have not spoken and will not come back to it," said European Parliament President Giannakis Omirou.
282 2013-07-12 12:30:13 <perrry> When Plan B is the creation of a solidarity fund out of the assets of the Cypriot State and the Church. According to Bloomberg data could be obtained 560 million euros from the sale of gold reserves. Further 500 million euros could provide the church, which is one of the largest investors in its economy. According to "New York Times" information includes the Church shares in the Bank of Cyprus and Hellenic Bank, as well as hotels, real
283 2013-07-12 12:30:15 <perrry> estate and the brewers Keo. From the nationalization of pension funds should come together up to four billion euros. As the mortgage natural gas fields should be stored.
284 2013-07-12 12:30:17 <perrry> Russia is considering only the extension of the existing loan to Cyprus. Moscow also wants to participate in the Cypriot solidarity fund, Reuters reported.
285 2013-07-12 12:30:20 <perrry> Cyprus has asked the Kremlin in vain for help. As the emerging expert at Standard Bank, Tim Ash, said the Cypriot Finance Minister Michalis Sarris has turned to the wrong guy. A Bittgang in Turkey is promising. Ankara could provide the required sum in exchange for the reunification of the island, said the expert.
286 2013-07-12 12:30:28 <c0rw1n> gmaxwell: rm troll
287 2013-07-12 12:32:43 <c0rw1n> tanks :)
288 2013-07-12 12:32:45 <c0rw1n> thanks :)
289 2013-07-12 12:32:56 <c0rw1n> next time i'll try sudo rm troll
290 2013-07-12 12:33:10 <c0rw1n> -Rvf
291 2013-07-12 12:33:40 <c0rw1n> oh that's the first time i talk here
292 2013-07-12 12:33:44 <c0rw1n> hello all
293 2013-07-12 12:34:10 <daybyter> Hello c0rw1n!
294 2013-07-12 12:34:25 <MC1984> oh look someone upset some emotionally immature kid, who then went away and rented a botnet and now we all have to suffer for it
295 2013-07-12 12:34:35 <MC1984> its like a microcosm of an anarchist paradise
296 2013-07-12 12:34:52 <c0rw1n> well "the system works" :p
297 2013-07-12 12:34:53 <petertodd> hoolandi: thanks
298 2013-07-12 12:35:06 <c0rw1n> aaaand it's back
299 2013-07-12 12:35:22 <petertodd> hoolandi: Not to say we can implement zerocoin tomorrow, but it's sooner than many think.
300 2013-07-12 12:35:37 <hoolandi> MC1984: What makes you think it's a kid? :)
301 2013-07-12 12:35:46 <hoolandi> MC1984: Sounds like the ravings of an adult to me.
302 2013-07-12 12:35:56 <perrry> Kriegsvorbereitungen gegen Syrien und den Iran sind in vollem Gange. Die USA, Israel und westliche L??nder r??sten im Persischen Golf und im Mittelmeer auf, Iran droht im Gegenzug mit Raketen und der Sperrung der Stra??e von Hormus. Und Syrien? Wer steckt in Wahrheit hinter den Unruhen und Protesten Hunderttausender, ??ber die westliche Massenmedien t??glich berichten? Wer ist verantwortlich f??r Tausende Tote, die dem Regime von Pr??sident Assad
303 2013-07-12 12:35:58 <perrry> zugeschrieben wurden?
304 2013-07-12 12:36:00 <perrry> Der US-Journalist und Historiker Webster Tarpley reiste nach Damaskus, um aus dem angeblichen ??Hexenkessel?? zu berichten. Doch seine Schilderungen klingen ganz anders als das, was deutsche und europ??ische Zuschauer und Leser t??glich aus den Mainstream-Medien erfahren. Tarpley spricht ??ber die Pl??ne und Strategien westlicher Geheimdienste, die das geostrategisch hochinteressante Syrien destabilisieren wollen, ??ber die verbl??ffende ??hnlichkeit
305 2013-07-12 12:36:02 <perrry> der Vorg??nge, die schon in Libyen zu beobachten waren. Nach Tarpleys Berichten k??nnte die offenbar vors??tzlich falsche Berichterstattung ebenso zu einem perfiden Plan geh??ren wie der bevorstehende Sturz Assads und die ??bernahme der Gesch??fte durch CIA-gesteuerte Todesschwadronen. Tarpley sieht immense Gefahren auf das kulturreiche Syrien zukommen: die v??llige Zerst??rung!
306 2013-07-12 12:36:04 <hoolandi> petertodd: Yeah I was afraid it would come to that.
307 2013-07-12 12:36:04 <perrry> Der amerikanische Autor nennt die realen Gefahren eines Dritten Weltkrieges, der sich durch die derzeitigen Vorbereitungen in Nah- und Mittelost anbahnt. Denn Syrien und Iran sollen im Kriegsfall Unterst??tzung aus Russland und aus China erhalten: Zahlreiche russische Kriegsschiffe liegen bereits im Mittelmeer vor Tartus, jeden Tag k??nnte der erste Schlag ausgef??hrt werden. Die Frage lautet jedoch: Von welcher Seite wird die die erste Initiative
308 2013-07-12 12:36:06 <perrry> ausgehen?
309 2013-07-12 12:36:07 <hoolandi> Jesus Christ.
310 2013-07-12 12:36:08 <perrry> Tarpley warnt: Das Leben des k??nftigen russischen Pr??sidenten Wladimir Putin ist in h??chster Gefahr. Der Historiker schlie??t eine vors??tzliche T??tung Putins in n??chster Zeit nicht aus: Zahlreiche Gr??nde sprechen f??r dessen Beseitigung. Weitere dr??ngende Fragen werden beantwortet: Auf wessen Seite hat sich die T??rkei jetzt geschlagen? Kommt ihr eine Schl??sselrolle zu? Und welche Rolle spielen in diesem dubiosen Gef??ge immer wieder die
311 2013-07-12 12:36:11 <perrry> westlichen Massenmedien?
312 2013-07-12 12:36:13 <perrry> Tarpley berichtet auch ??ber die Gefahren einer gro??angelegten Weltdepression, die global ausgebrochen ist und die von geheimen Kr??ften vors??tzlich angefacht wurde. Doch f??r welches Ziel und um welchen Preis? Der Journalist beschreibt die geplante Umstellung auf eine Neue Weltordnung. Und er entwickelt Vorschl??ge, wie man in letzter Minute einen milit??rischen Rundumschlag und damit den Dritten Weltkrieg vielleicht doch noch verhindern k??nnte.
313 2013-07-12 12:36:15 <michagogo> sipa, gmaxwell
314 2013-07-12 12:36:29 <MC1984> leave them alone
315 2013-07-12 12:36:37 <c0rw1n> sipa gmaxwell: sudo rm -Rvf troll
316 2013-07-12 12:36:56 <MC1984> better they spend time coding than banning zombies
317 2013-07-12 12:37:00 <petertodd> hoolandi: IMO the main risk is we'll implement zerocoin, then a month later they'll find yet another optimization and change all the assumptions...
318 2013-07-12 12:37:13 <hoolandi> Can you guys just voice everyone in here and make it voice only?
319 2013-07-12 12:37:35 <hoolandi> petertodd: True. It needs to play out more.
320 2013-07-12 12:38:01 <hoolandi> petertodd: But I love that it is at least being considered. Bodes well for the future of the whole system in a worst-case scenario IMO.
321 2013-07-12 12:38:02 <petertodd> hoolandi: The crypto *is* untested too...
322 2013-07-12 12:38:08 <MC1984> wlp
323 2013-07-12 12:38:09 <hoolandi> Sure.
324 2013-07-12 12:38:18 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I mentioned that in my last post on the forum on the subject- putting it in a distributed-decenteralized system means you get the decenteralization suicide pact..
325 2013-07-12 12:38:20 <michagogo> Interesting, no +f
326 2013-07-12 12:38:42 <petertodd> hoolandi: Yup, and it's not the only technique: trust-free mixing certainely can be done, and almost certainly can be done in a DoS-resistant distributed manner - no suicide pact required.
327 2013-07-12 12:38:43 <MC1984> ZC is being considered?
328 2013-07-12 12:38:48 <gmaxwell> No.
329 2013-07-12 12:38:48 <MC1984> you mean for bitcoin qt?
330 2013-07-12 12:38:57 <hoolandi> Heh
331 2013-07-12 12:38:59 <c0rw1n> petertodd: how do you think to do that?
332 2013-07-12 12:39:19 <petertodd> c0rw1n: You use fidelity bonds to make jamming the mix process expensive.
333 2013-07-12 12:39:43 <gmaxwell> I posted about using ZC for that??? though actually ZC is seriously overkill for a trust free mix... but it would be a way to get ZC like technology in production use.
334 2013-07-12 12:40:04 <nsh> hmm
335 2013-07-12 12:40:15 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yup, testing is valuable.
336 2013-07-12 12:41:14 <gmaxwell> petertodd: the neat thing I realized there was that if you use ZC to secure the mix then you should know for sure no one cheated, so any failure to sign is a DOS attack.. so you can just blacklist their inputs.
337 2013-07-12 12:41:22 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Anyway adding ZC to a fidelity bonded system would be an easy upgrade after the rest of the stuff was done.
338 2013-07-12 12:41:24 <c0rw1n> ... i don't get the fidelity bond thing. Link plz?
339 2013-07-12 12:41:31 <gmaxwell> So I don't actually think you need a fidelity bond unless the attack is very persistant and well funded.
340 2013-07-12 12:41:57 <petertodd> c0rwin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172047.0
341 2013-07-12 12:42:04 <c0rw1n> ok thanks
342 2013-07-12 12:42:33 <petertodd> gmaxwell: indeed, even the boring fidelity bonded version only needs them as a fallback if attacked
343 2013-07-12 12:43:19 <Scrat> c0rw1n: this is a better explanation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134827.0
344 2013-07-12 12:43:33 <c0rw1n> ok
345 2013-07-12 12:43:54 <petertodd> c0rw1n: one explains the mix protocol, the other explains what fidelity bonds are
346 2013-07-12 12:44:03 <gmaxwell> (basically my suggestion ends up piggybacking on the difficulty of creating lots of sufficiently valued outputs. (e.g. you can also ban the children of the bad output for, e.g. a 24 hour timeout)
347 2013-07-12 12:44:16 <gmaxwell> )
348 2013-07-12 12:44:38 <c0rw1n> oh good. You can provably yhrow away bitcoins, that opens up... possibilities...
349 2013-07-12 12:44:49 <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, although I worry you'd find that a persistent attacker dos so anyway because it's not costing them anything
350 2013-07-12 12:45:19 <petertodd> c0rw1n: Indeed, which is why "just add fidelity bonds!" has become an in-joke around here.
351 2013-07-12 12:45:25 <gmaxwell> petertodd: right, well, transaction fees in washing their outputs.
352 2013-07-12 12:45:59 <petertodd> gmaxwell: tx fees are cheap... not to mention the zero-fee priority system the 300BTC person is having fun with
353 2013-07-12 12:46:27 <c0rw1n> *TILT* that's using the blockchain as escrow! genius
354 2013-07-12 12:46:36 <gmaxwell> but sure, it doesn't replace doing other things, but does make it much less of a potential issue.
355 2013-07-12 12:47:11 <petertodd> gmaxwell: well, if I implement it I'm only gonna bother writing code for one system :)
356 2013-07-12 12:47:28 <petertodd> gmaxwell: not that I actually implement things...
357 2013-07-12 12:47:36 <gmaxwell> well the anti-dos thing could simply evolve to attacks....
358 2013-07-12 12:48:03 <c0rw1n> ... no problem with using inner transactions with multi-sig, amirite?
359 2013-07-12 12:48:08 <gmaxwell> I've been self imposing a ratio of lines written to code written. :P (uh, but not binning by project)
360 2013-07-12 12:48:37 <petertodd> gmaxwell: rmember that I envision this stuff working over the p2p flood network, and that itself implies strong resistance to attack by provable sacrifice of some kind
361 2013-07-12 12:49:04 <petertodd> c0rw1n: I didn't think that was possible, but then I realized you can stuff up to 240 bytes of data in a multi-sig and still be able to spend it...
362 2013-07-12 12:49:24 <petertodd> c0rw1n: jgarzik is doing an OP_RETURN <data> version for a project of his
363 2013-07-12 12:49:54 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I suppose that it's in our best interest to make the sacrifice coinfees instead of POW...
364 2013-07-12 12:50:21 <gmaxwell> (create more markets for btc... incentivize more pow work on the chain vs not on the chain)
365 2013-07-12 12:50:45 <petertodd> gmaxwell: yup, we really should make announce-commit simple and easy, and preferably long-term OP_DEPTH possible
366 2013-07-12 12:58:27 <petertodd> gmaxwell: oh, did you see my btc denominated pow system? it works by proving you've attempted to mine a block that has an OP_TRUE in the coinbase tx, so it's still sacrificing fees, just probabalisticly
367 2013-07-12 13:08:16 <nsh> hmm
368 2013-07-12 13:09:02 <nsh> nice idea petertodd
369 2013-07-12 13:09:42 <petertodd> nsh: thanks. You can do instant payments the same way - it'll go well with bitcoinj's micropayment channels.
370 2013-07-12 13:09:54 <nsh> although, wouldn't you have to make  it certain that you couldn't just discard the solution if you found it? probably i'm missing some important information about how pool mining works that obviates this problem
371 2013-07-12 13:10:20 <petertodd> So long as the rest of the reward > the OP_TRUE txout it's not in the miners interest to discard it.
372 2013-07-12 13:10:21 <nsh> yes, i think probabilistic distribution may be a partial solution to micropayment congestion somehow
373 2013-07-12 13:10:31 <nsh> mm
374 2013-07-12 13:10:51 <petertodd> nsh: probabalistic is also the only way we have of sending funds anonymously
375 2013-07-12 13:11:04 <nsh> right, hmm
376 2013-07-12 13:11:07 <nsh> definite merit in this
377 2013-07-12 13:11:19 <nsh> it's a bit like the old capital punishment systems
378 2013-07-12 13:11:27 <petertodd> ?
379 2013-07-12 13:11:29 <nsh> where a whole group of people pull some strings and one of them releases the trapdoor
380 2013-07-12 13:11:37 <nsh> so no-one is directly culpable for the killing
381 2013-07-12 13:11:47 <nsh> or something like that, i just filled in the blanks
382 2013-07-12 13:11:59 <nsh> but firing squad is the same principle in part
383 2013-07-12 13:12:05 <petertodd> hmm, not a great analogy I think...
384 2013-07-12 13:12:12 <nsh> lol, possibly
385 2013-07-12 13:12:27 <petertodd> it's anonymous because it's decoupled basically, although if you have to pay a miner that is an issue...
386 2013-07-12 13:18:56 <Goonie> petertodd: is there any news on the DNS problem?
387 2013-07-12 13:30:46 <petertodd> Goonie: oh, on my dnsseed? nah, it's something pretty funky going on
388 2013-07-12 13:30:56 <petertodd> Goonie: I don't really know enough about DNS
389 2013-07-12 13:31:52 <Goonie> You said that your seed might by non-standard. Can't you switch to use standard?
390 2013-07-12 13:32:18 <petertodd> It's a custom DNS server written by sipa
391 2013-07-12 13:32:20 <nsh> petertodd, which is your seed domain?
392 2013-07-12 13:32:33 <petertodd> nsh: testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
393 2013-07-12 13:32:45 <kinlo> petertodd: you only run a testnet seed?
394 2013-07-12 13:33:08 <petertodd> kinlo: yup, btcfoundation gave me a grant for it
395 2013-07-12 13:33:17 <kinlo> a grant? :)
396 2013-07-12 13:33:25 <kinlo> I'd do it for free if it would be usefull
397 2013-07-12 13:33:47 <petertodd> kinlo: please do, we need more
398 2013-07-12 13:33:56 <TD> i really wish the java world could decide on a build system and stick with it
399 2013-07-12 13:34:04 <petertodd> yeah, $100 or whatever it was to pay for hosting on ec2
400 2013-07-12 13:34:11 <TD> it seems every time i start a new project, the old system has been replaced with some hot new one that has a manual 10x longer
401 2013-07-12 13:34:18 <kinlo> petertodd: oh, I still have some free servers :)
402 2013-07-12 13:34:22 <bitnumus> -qt copies transactionID with -000 on the end, is this a bug?
403 2013-07-12 13:34:24 <nsh> TD, java is more focused on the destructive and constructive aspects of the software lifecycle
404 2013-07-12 13:34:34 <michagogo> bitnumus: That's the vout, I think
405 2013-07-12 13:34:35 <petertodd> kinlo: heck, I could even give you a pre-setup ec2 image...
406 2013-07-12 13:34:44 <bitnumus> michagogo, whats one of those
407 2013-07-12 13:34:46 <nsh> maybe you should pick a language that is not fundamentally based on tying people into complex business partnerships indefinitely
408 2013-07-12 13:34:48 <kinlo> TD: well, if the java world would finally figure out that they're way overdesigning stuff, it would help a lot
409 2013-07-12 13:34:54 <nsh> like befunge
410 2013-07-12 13:34:57 <michagogo> bitnumus: Which output of the transaction it is
411 2013-07-12 13:35:03 <TD> indeed
412 2013-07-12 13:35:11 <kinlo> TD: my main problem with maven is that there is no documentation and that it is way too complex to figure out what it does and how to configure it
413 2013-07-12 13:35:23 <bitnumus> i see, blockchain.info doesnt recognise this then :P
414 2013-07-12 13:35:24 <bitnumus> thanks
415 2013-07-12 13:35:24 <kinlo> TD: so I'm not touching maven with a stick unless I really need to
416 2013-07-12 13:35:25 <TD> the last two build systems were based on XML, which was kind of gross, but the new one is a full-blown scripting language
417 2013-07-12 13:35:33 <petertodd> kinlo: java doesn't exactly invite you to jump in...
418 2013-07-12 13:35:37 <kinlo> TD: which one?
419 2013-07-12 13:35:38 <TD> well i'm wrestling with gradle at the moment
420 2013-07-12 13:35:43 <michagogo> How much is needed in terms of resources for a testnet seed?
421 2013-07-12 13:35:56 <kinlo> petertodd: I've been a java developer for many years and I like java a LOT
422 2013-07-12 13:36:00 <TD> at least with maven, if you wanted to depend on something, you added a <dependency> tag with a few subtags. not amazingly intuitive but not terrible
423 2013-07-12 13:36:05 <petertodd> michagogo: trivial, I run mine on an ec2 micro instance, it's only a few thousand requests a day
424 2013-07-12 13:36:11 <kinlo> I just don't like how the industry is totally ruining the ecosystem
425 2013-07-12 13:36:29 <petertodd> kinlo: I took one look at the java ecosystem and said "ugh"
426 2013-07-12 13:36:41 <kinlo> petertodd: I don't use ec2, that would cost me monniez
427 2013-07-12 13:36:48 <TD> but so far i can't even make it register a dependency on a locally installed library. grrrr.
428 2013-07-12 13:36:53 <kinlo> petertodd: well, look beyond the ecosystem :)
429 2013-07-12 13:36:56 <petertodd> kinlo: python is simple and beautiful and fast enough
430 2013-07-12 13:37:01 <michagogo> Hm, that means that anyone with a credit card can easily set up an EC2 micro instance for free for a year and help out
431 2013-07-12 13:37:08 <kinlo> I really don't like python
432 2013-07-12 13:37:23 <petertodd> michagogo: kinda, we have to add their seed to the source code, so we want people who will stick around
433 2013-07-12 13:37:28 <kinlo> I've been doing some programming in it now and still can't find my way in it
434 2013-07-12 13:37:29 <TD> python is slow as crap, any non-tiny codebase tends to be riddled with bugs, the lack of type annotations makes it annoying to debug other peoples code and it's very hard to do any kind of static analysis on it
435 2013-07-12 13:37:33 <michagogo> petertodd: For more than a year?
436 2013-07-12 13:37:36 <kinlo> but that's personal I guess
437 2013-07-12 13:37:39 <petertodd> kinlo: I really do, although it should have had types...
438 2013-07-12 13:37:40 <TD> it's basically everything you DON'T want in a language when working with other peoples money
439 2013-07-12 13:37:42 <petertodd> michagogo: yup
440 2013-07-12 13:37:51 <michagogo> Hmm, actually...
441 2013-07-12 13:37:56 <kinlo> petertodd: exactly.  I like a very statically typed language
442 2013-07-12 13:37:58 <TD> we basically scrapped or rewrote every large python codebase in google save for one or two, for those reasons
443 2013-07-12 13:38:11 <michagogo> Looks like anyone can actually set up *two* for free -- one on Linux and one on Windows
444 2013-07-12 13:38:30 <TD> ahh, there we go
445 2013-07-12 13:38:33 <kinlo> google save? :)
446 2013-07-12 13:38:38 <TD> i had to add mavenLocal() in two different places, for some reason
447 2013-07-12 13:38:43 <petertodd> kinlo: yeah, what I actually like about python is the syntax and style really, what I actually want python to be is cython, which has types and is possible to compile
448 2013-07-12 13:38:48 <TD> kinlo: in google, save for
449 2013-07-12 13:38:52 <petertodd> kinlo: ironic really
450 2013-07-12 13:38:52 <TD> commas matter, it turns out :)
451 2013-07-12 13:39:02 <kinlo> in google? :)
452 2013-07-12 13:39:36 <kinlo> TD: you know that google has created more then one programming language?
453 2013-07-12 13:39:57 <petertodd> kinlo: but I'm bitter because I once found a indentation related bug in some C firmware I wrote for a power supply that could have cost a quarter million per time it was triggered and potentially even gotten someone killed...
454 2013-07-12 13:40:19 <petertodd> kinlo: I wrote the firmware, someone later changed it and added the bug because they were sloppy
455 2013-07-12 13:40:20 <TD> much to my dismay
456 2013-07-12 13:40:31 <kinlo> petertodd: do you have some url or so for the seed?
457 2013-07-12 13:40:48 <kinlo> petertodd: well, when I write C there is obligated use of indent and -Wall
458 2013-07-12 13:41:07 <kinlo> you just need to enforce some good rules
459 2013-07-12 13:41:25 <petertodd> kinlo: this is the software I run: https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin-seeder
460 2013-07-12 13:41:39 <petertodd> kinlo: heh, enforcment is tough
461 2013-07-12 13:41:46 <michagogo> Looks like an EC2 micro instance is $175 a year
462 2013-07-12 13:41:48 <kinlo> that's something I like about google go, the community has setled on gofmt, so everybody's code looks exactly the same
463 2013-07-12 13:41:58 <kinlo> petertodd: commit hooks will do the trick
464 2013-07-12 13:42:01 <petertodd> kinlo: in all honestly low-level firmware would be much better written in something more like python
465 2013-07-12 13:42:03 <michagogo> (to run at all times)
466 2013-07-12 13:42:22 <kinlo> petertodd: no, firmware needs to be low to the system, python is for higher level stuff imho
467 2013-07-12 13:42:55 <petertodd> kinlo: I said more like, not python itself, point is you can get a language with safe arrays and similar things, yet is still low-level
468 2013-07-12 13:42:56 <michagogo> Or $105.80 if you go for a High Utilization Reserved Instance
469 2013-07-12 13:43:14 <kinlo> petertodd: did you look at google-go already?
470 2013-07-12 13:43:25 <petertodd> kinlo: even 8 bit processors with 64-bytes of ram are programmed in C these days
471 2013-07-12 13:43:26 <michagogo> (you pay $62 for one year of 75% discount)
472 2013-07-12 13:43:57 <petertodd> kinlo: yeah, google go is better, but it's still C syntax
473 2013-07-12 13:44:28 <kinlo> petertodd: I have no problem with it
474 2013-07-12 13:44:37 <michagogo> And, if you go for the 3-year plan, you pay $100 up front for $0.005 per hour, which works out to 77.13333333333333333333333333... a year
475 2013-07-12 13:44:59 <petertodd> kinlo: indentation really should be syntax given our brains expect it to be
476 2013-07-12 13:45:21 <kinlo> petertodd: don't agree
477 2013-07-12 13:46:07 <petertodd> kinlo: if everyone follows an indentation standard, then why the hell isn't it just part of the syntax? modulo tabs-vs-spaces fuckups there's no good reason not too, and py3 dies when it sees a tabs-vs-spaces fuckup
478 2013-07-12 13:46:39 <petertodd> kinlo: but as I say I'm bitter for seeing a mistake with such enormous potential consequences happen...
479 2013-07-12 13:48:13 <kinlo> petertodd: it just means you're thinking with the wrong organ :)
480 2013-07-12 13:48:48 <petertodd> kinlo: pfff, peoples brains work visually when they are parsing stuff, they don't work by counting up brackets
481 2013-07-12 13:49:12 <nsh> +1
482 2013-07-12 13:49:16 <kinlo> exactly, so enforce decent indentation
483 2013-07-12 13:49:23 <kinlo> but it doens't mean they can't be there
484 2013-07-12 13:49:48 <petertodd> kinlo: yes, and since you are enforcing it, what are the brackets for and why does doing anything else not give a compile error?
485 2013-07-12 13:49:50 <kinlo> for me the curly braces are much more clear then the identation
486 2013-07-12 13:50:11 <petertodd> that's because you are used to them
487 2013-07-12 13:50:16 <kinlo> plus
488 2013-07-12 13:50:31 <kinlo> I just write crappy identation, the compiler understands it when I put the braces
489 2013-07-12 13:50:33 <petertodd> there's been clean sheet usability studies on this you know, python indentation wins out there
490 2013-07-12 13:50:42 <kinlo> then I save, indent runs automatically, and my code is cleaned up :)
491 2013-07-12 13:50:45 <petertodd> kinlo: well you're a bad person, incapable of love
492 2013-07-12 13:50:53 <kinlo> petertodd: thank you :)
493 2013-07-12 13:50:54 <michagogo> So unless I got my math wrong, an Amazon EC2 Micro instance is free for the first year, and after that $6.427777777... per month if you go for the "Heavy Utilization Reserved Instance", committing to a 3-year term
494 2013-07-12 13:50:56 <t7> "kinlo: did you look at google-go already?" did you?
495 2013-07-12 13:51:13 <kinlo> t7: yes, I have some go programs running in production
496 2013-07-12 13:51:19 <petertodd> michagogo: sounds about right
497 2013-07-12 13:51:27 <petertodd> kinlo: :P
498 2013-07-12 13:51:49 <kinlo> :)
499 2013-07-12 13:51:59 <t7> its a niche because there arnt many 'fast' native languages with GC
500 2013-07-12 13:52:13 <kinlo> yep
501 2013-07-12 13:52:21 <t7> but google go is terrible. no generics whatsoever and lots of unsafe casting
502 2013-07-12 13:52:26 <kinlo> altough java is fast and gc
503 2013-07-12 13:52:32 <petertodd> bbl
504 2013-07-12 13:52:37 <kinlo> it's just not native
505 2013-07-12 13:52:44 <kinlo> and unsafe casting?  where?
506 2013-07-12 13:53:10 <t7> every time you get a value from something that returns a value that implements an interface
507 2013-07-12 13:53:23 <kinlo> no generics... perhaps later, it's only v1.0
508 2013-07-12 13:53:52 <kinlo> yes, then you get an object of that interface... that's compile time checked
509 2013-07-12 13:54:43 <kinlo> t7: did you write in go already ?:)
510 2013-07-12 13:54:43 <t7> yeah but now i have an   'interface {}' or something rather than the 'string' i should have
511 2013-07-12 13:54:53 <kinlo> yes, then cast it
512 2013-07-12 13:54:55 <t7> kinlo: yeah i wrote a few bits
513 2013-07-12 13:55:13 <t7> kinlo: yeah but when you cast its either run time checked on unsafe
514 2013-07-12 13:55:20 <t7> so slow or fast and unsafe
515 2013-07-12 13:55:24 <kinlo> yes it's runtime checked afaik
516 2013-07-12 13:55:27 <Goonie> petertodd, kinlo: the problem with testnet seeds is that there appear to be only two. One is not reachable from me (for whatever reason) and one does only know one node.
517 2013-07-12 13:55:28 <kinlo> and fast
518 2013-07-12 13:55:33 <t7> let alone the fast everything has to be boxed
519 2013-07-12 13:55:44 <kinlo> Goonie: it does remain testnet....
520 2013-07-12 13:56:17 <kinlo> my testnet node currently has 26 connections...
521 2013-07-12 13:56:55 <kinlo> t7: it's fast enough.  Google's tests show there is about 30% performance loss compared to regular C
522 2013-07-12 13:57:11 <Goonie> kinlo: do you have a DNS seed?
523 2013-07-12 13:57:19 <kinlo> t7: so yes, you can go faster theoretically, but for getting so much goodies in return, I'll take the 30%
524 2013-07-12 13:57:25 <kinlo> Goonie: no
525 2013-07-12 13:57:30 <t7> i bet in that test they never use any interface stuff
526 2013-07-12 13:57:48 <kinlo> but if it is usefull for me to setup and it can be done with low maintenance I might do so
527 2013-07-12 13:58:04 <kinlo> t7: I think you bet wrong :)
528 2013-07-12 13:59:07 <t7> i do like the green threads though
529 2013-07-12 13:59:48 <kinlo> no idea what color threads have, but the goroutines (!=threads) are very nice
530 2013-07-12 14:00:41 <kinlo> does anyone know how far gavin has gotten with the payment protocol?
531 2013-07-12 14:01:11 <t7> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_threads
532 2013-07-12 14:01:17 <TD> it's usable
533 2013-07-12 14:01:20 <TD> with an ugly gui
534 2013-07-12 14:01:48 <Diablo-D3> green threads = fibers
535 2013-07-12 14:02:10 <Diablo-D3> I dont get why anyone would use Go though
536 2013-07-12 14:02:22 <Diablo-D3> Erlang is such a better language and isn't some science experiment like Go is
537 2013-07-12 14:02:33 <Diablo-D3> and Google is probably going to drop Go soon as they realize it can't do what they want
538 2013-07-12 14:02:43 <Diablo-D3> so I wouldn't bother putting any effort into Go
539 2013-07-12 14:02:51 <t7> they use go for youtube stuff
540 2013-07-12 14:02:58 <Diablo-D3> t7: for now
541 2013-07-12 14:03:02 <Diablo-D3> tommorow it could be erlang
542 2013-07-12 14:03:02 <Ry4an> We're using go at the office for smaller side stuff.  It's easy to on board people, has decent tooling, and is proving "fun" for experienced devs.
543 2013-07-12 14:03:19 <t7> i wouldnt write code in go given the choice
544 2013-07-12 14:03:41 <Diablo-D3> Ry4an: you really should convert your company to erlang
545 2013-07-12 14:03:48 <Diablo-D3> theres simply no point in writing code in any other language
546 2013-07-12 14:04:04 <sipa> lol
547 2013-07-12 14:04:20 <k9quaint_> erlang is great, but Go has better internals for concurrency
548 2013-07-12 14:04:36 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint_: not really
549 2013-07-12 14:04:47 <Diablo-D3> Ive never seen a language do concurrency better than Erlang
550 2013-07-12 14:04:54 <sipa> i'll write my next optimized crypto in Erlang - it'll be ridiculously parallel and ridiculously slow!
551 2013-07-12 14:04:56 <k9quaint_> plus, it is a tiny runtime
552 2013-07-12 14:05:22 <phungus> Hack it all together with obfuscated Perl. That is the only way.
553 2013-07-12 14:05:26 <Ry4an> Diablo-D3: some of us have done some erlang and our experience isn't yours I guess.
554 2013-07-12 14:05:49 <Diablo-D3> Go is a bunch of low level trash badly mocking up Tony Hoare's CSP ideas
555 2013-07-12 14:06:02 <k9quaint_> Diablo-D3: have you written anything large in it?
556 2013-07-12 14:06:10 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint_: I tried to, I can't stand the language
557 2013-07-12 14:06:12 <Diablo-D3> its just so backwards
558 2013-07-12 14:06:25 <k9quaint_> it grows on you
559 2013-07-12 14:06:27 <Diablo-D3> sipa: Erlang isn't meant for numerical crunching
560 2013-07-12 14:06:29 <k9quaint_> (slowly)
561 2013-07-12 14:06:30 <petertodd> sipa: "ridiculously parallel and ridiculously slow" <- oh, you mean it has webscale?
562 2013-07-12 14:06:33 <Diablo-D3> sipa: use Fortran or C fo rthat
563 2013-07-12 14:06:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: bitslice DES where every bit runs in a seperate thread.
564 2013-07-12 14:06:49 <Diablo-D3> for actual program logic? erlang is goddamned fast
565 2013-07-12 14:06:49 <k9quaint_> HA
566 2013-07-12 14:07:12 <gmaxwell> How about them bitcoins?
567 2013-07-12 14:07:22 <phungus> gmaxwell: lol
568 2013-07-12 14:07:44 <k9quaint_> you guys should make a haskell client
569 2013-07-12 14:07:51 <phungus> Turbo Pascal FTW
570 2013-07-12 14:08:15 <Diablo-D3> Ry4an: btw, I suspect you never learned Erlang if your experience wasn't mine
571 2013-07-12 14:08:27 <Diablo-D3> Ry4an: you have to learn how Erlang works, and its unlike any language I've used
572 2013-07-12 14:08:42 <Diablo-D3> to merely describe it as a functional language isn't even scratching the surface
573 2013-07-12 14:10:51 <TD> sigh.
574 2013-07-12 14:11:06 <TD> i will take a language that doesn't have 3 broken incompatible magic build systems
575 2013-07-12 14:11:34 <Diablo-D3> TD: you described at least 5 languages
576 2013-07-12 14:11:39 <k9quaint_> just rewrite LISP to use square brackets instead of parens
577 2013-07-12 14:11:43 <k9quaint_> oh wait..
578 2013-07-12 14:11:56 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint_: I know, use json expressions in LISP! ... oh wait
579 2013-07-12 14:12:08 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i was commenting on "< Diablo-D3> theres simply no point in writing code in any other language"
580 2013-07-12 14:12:09 <petertodd> I'm surprised no-one has mentioned forth yet
581 2013-07-12 14:12:14 <k9quaint_> clojure data != JSON sir
582 2013-07-12 14:12:27 <Diablo-D3> sipa: just saying.
583 2013-07-12 14:12:31 <TD> it's easy to have a standardised, unified wonderful build system
584 2013-07-12 14:12:39 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint_: no, there actually is a lisp that uses json expressions
585 2013-07-12 14:12:40 <TD> having that whilst simultaneously having a crapton of libraries and users - much harder
586 2013-07-12 14:12:51 <k9quaint_> Diablo-D3: not surprising
587 2013-07-12 14:13:05 <Diablo-D3> TD: C is not that language
588 2013-07-12 14:13:06 <k9quaint_> it is probably 3 lines of code
589 2013-07-12 14:13:26 <Diablo-D3> TD: neither is C++, Java, Scala, or Ruby
590 2013-07-12 14:14:12 <Diablo-D3> Erlang has 2, but everyone uses the newer one, and if you know how to use the older one, you know how to use the newer one
591 2013-07-12 14:16:45 <k9quaint_> yeah, but you and 3 guys from Erricson use Erlang so it is pretty easy to have a unified build system
592 2013-07-12 14:20:04 <BCB> I <3 Erlang
593 2013-07-12 14:20:31 <BCB> http://bex.io/ is build with Erlang
594 2013-07-12 14:26:41 <gmaxwell> ----> #languages
595 2013-07-12 14:27:19 <nsh> <----- #moneys
596 2013-07-12 14:28:35 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint_: a LOT of people use erlang
597 2013-07-12 14:28:42 <Diablo-D3> more people use erlang than go
598 2013-07-12 14:29:32 <k9quaint_> give Go some time
599 2013-07-12 14:30:30 <k9quaint_> I'll port the BTC client to it and PROVE IT'S WORTH!
600 2013-07-12 14:30:48 <k9quaint_> after I eat this cookie...
601 2013-07-12 14:30:49 <hoolandi> k9quaint_: What's awesome about Go?
602 2013-07-12 14:31:13 <k9quaint_> hoolandi: its got a tiny runtime that starts in a few milliseconds
603 2013-07-12 14:31:34 <k9quaint_> but that is for #languages
604 2013-07-12 14:31:41 <hoolandi> So does io :)
605 2013-07-12 14:31:49 <hoolandi> But besides that? Oh okay.
606 2013-07-12 14:40:49 <saulimus> #bitcoin: <whirlpool160> http://sourceforge.net/projects/multibit/ << multibit malware
607 2013-07-12 14:42:18 <hoolandi> Seriously?
608 2013-07-12 14:43:04 <saulimus> he just wanted someone to report it on the channel, don't know anything about it
609 2013-07-12 14:43:29 <hoolandi> You mean someone setup a "repo" on Sourceforge and put up a fake, malware version of Multibit?
610 2013-07-12 14:44:37 <saulimus> could be, he was probably hoping someone could investigate
611 2013-07-12 14:45:07 <hoolandi> :/
612 2013-07-12 14:45:42 <TD> i emailed jim about it
613 2013-07-12 14:45:51 <TD> it's not the first time someone has tried to distribute a back-doored multibit
614 2013-07-12 14:46:06 <TD> if you try multibtc.org you'll discover it's blocked by safebrowsing
615 2013-07-12 14:46:22 <saulimus> atleast the file size is 14.7 MB vs 11.7 MB at multibit.org
616 2013-07-12 14:48:47 <saulimus> nice, the guy also changed the donation address to his own one :p
617 2013-07-12 14:49:44 <hoolandi> Lot of work for little reward
618 2013-07-12 16:21:11 <i2pRelay> <toran@i2p> hai are there any alternatives to zerocoin that the bitcoin devs are interested in?
619 2013-07-12 16:24:35 <gmaxwell> there are many ways to anonymize coin ownership that doesn't have the performance implications of integrated zerocoin. There are posts about this on the bitcointalk forums, I suggest looking.
620 2013-07-12 16:35:02 <midnightmagic> hello i2p person. you know, your population over there is remarkably well-behaved, considering. just wanted to say thanks for that.
621 2013-07-12 16:36:14 <gmaxwell> er I suggest looking there first.
622 2013-07-12 16:36:52 <mappum> what does Multibit do differently that makes it sync so fast?
623 2013-07-12 16:37:45 <gmaxwell> mappum: it's a SPV client, a kind of think client that uses other bitcoin nodes as its servers and validates very little.
624 2013-07-12 16:38:06 <gmaxwell> (though more than a web thin client like blockchain.info does)
625 2013-07-12 16:38:11 <gmaxwell> s/think/thin/
626 2013-07-12 16:39:08 <hoolandi> Speaking of SPV clients??? We've just tried to build a wallet around libccoin and picocoin and its not very complete yet :/ You guys know of any other C or C++ implementations?
627 2013-07-12 16:39:56 <hoolandi> It's a real mess for the Mac side of things; a JVM is not guaranteed installed by default on newer systems
628 2013-07-12 16:40:04 <mappum> would it be bad if too many people used that then? because it's making load for nodes but not contributing?
629 2013-07-12 16:40:37 <warren> sounds like miners
630 2013-07-12 16:41:10 <gmaxwell> hoolandi: just install the JVM too.
631 2013-07-12 16:41:33 <gmaxwell> mappum: yes, it creates load and doesn't contribute. It's not clear how it will play out.
632 2013-07-12 16:41:57 <hoolandi> gmaxwell: Come on, that's crazy talk. :-)
633 2013-07-12 16:47:48 <flound1129> is there a way to list all addresses in a wallet in 0.6.x?
634 2013-07-12 16:47:51 <flound1129> from command line?
635 2013-07-12 16:49:30 <gmaxwell> flound1129: no, because doing so would defeat the keypool
636 2013-07-12 16:49:47 <flound1129> so nothing like listaddressgroupings?
637 2013-07-12 16:49:55 <flound1129> in 0.8
638 2013-07-12 16:50:17 <gmaxwell> listaddressgroupings doesn't do what you asked for either.
639 2013-07-12 16:50:23 <gmaxwell> But no, there is no listaddressgroupings in 0.6.
640 2013-07-12 16:51:04 <flound1129> yeah
641 2013-07-12 16:51:11 <flound1129> it doesn't?
642 2013-07-12 16:53:17 <flound1129> I mean all generated addresses
643 2013-07-12 16:53:32 <gmaxwell> No. It doesn't list the keys in the keypool, for example. It doesn't list generated addresses that haven't recieved funds yet, IIRC.
644 2013-07-12 16:53:53 <flound1129> hmm
645 2013-07-12 16:53:55 <flound1129> ok thanks
646 2013-07-12 17:27:23 <Diablo-D3> http://blog.kotowicz.net/2013/07/jealous-of-prism-use-amazon-1-button.html
647 2013-07-12 17:42:36 <bmcgee> hey guys, i'm trying to understand the coinbase a bit better. Anyone about prepared to answer a few (potentially stupid) questions?
648 2013-07-12 17:46:59 <bmcgee> I'll take that as a no then lol
649 2013-07-12 17:47:59 <gdbz> don't ask to ask, just ask.
650 2013-07-12 17:48:01 <gdbz> =)
651 2013-07-12 17:49:06 <bmcgee> :)
652 2013-07-12 17:49:20 <bmcgee> ok so the coinbase is a transaction with a single input that isn't connected to any outputs?
653 2013-07-12 17:49:54 <bmcgee> from a pooling point of view
654 2013-07-12 17:50:23 <bmcgee> it's the first transaction in the list of transactions for a block
655 2013-07-12 17:50:49 <bmcgee> gdbz: ^^^
656 2013-07-12 17:55:46 <bmcgee> anyone?
657 2013-07-12 17:56:43 <mappum> bmcgee: don't expect an instant answer, people are slow
658 2013-07-12 17:56:50 <mappum> and busy
659 2013-07-12 17:57:22 <squwiggle> bmcgee: whats the question?
660 2013-07-12 17:57:29 <bmcgee> mappum: understood
661 2013-07-12 17:57:43 <bmcgee> squwiggle: I'm trying to get a better understanding of the coinbase transaction in the context of mining
662 2013-07-12 17:58:07 <bmcgee> as i'm understanding it it's the first transaction which has a single input which isn't connected to anything?
663 2013-07-12 17:58:29 <bmcgee> that's to begin with
664 2013-07-12 17:58:41 <bmcgee> have other questions but want to validate my understanding as i go along
665 2013-07-12 17:58:48 <mappum> bmcgee: correct
666 2013-07-12 17:59:11 <mappum> bmcgee: since the coins are generated right there, the input isn't connected to anything
667 2013-07-12 17:59:27 <bmcgee> ok cool, so as for the outputs. if you're trying to construct a coinbase for miners connected to a pool how do you construct the outputs such that it assigns the correct amount of generated coins
668 2013-07-12 17:59:41 <bmcgee> is there a way of getting the current 'coin value' or whatever the term is
669 2013-07-12 18:00:25 <bmcgee> or maybe i have this all wrong
670 2013-07-12 18:00:34 <mappum> you would just split the 25+fees however you want to split it, and set the divisions as outputs
671 2013-07-12 18:00:49 <bmcgee> ah see it's the 25 i'm curious about
672 2013-07-12 18:00:56 <bmcgee> i know when bitcoin started it was more like 50
673 2013-07-12 18:01:01 <bmcgee> obviously it changes
674 2013-07-12 18:01:40 <mappum> yeah, it halves every 210k blocks
675 2013-07-12 18:02:15 <bmcgee> the fees are just determined by finding out what's left over from the outputs of all the transactions in the block. but the 25, can that be computed then?
676 2013-07-12 18:03:00 <gwillen> bmcgee: there's a fixed pre-defined schedule for that value
677 2013-07-12 18:03:03 <gwillen> it's hardcoded in the client
678 2013-07-12 18:03:11 <bmcgee> does bitcoind expose it?
679 2013-07-12 18:03:16 <gwillen> I don't actually know
680 2013-07-12 18:03:23 <gwillen> it's an excellent question
681 2013-07-12 18:03:34 <bmcgee> it would be handy if it did
682 2013-07-12 18:03:37 <TD> which value?
683 2013-07-12 18:03:49 <mappum> just do `50 >> Math.floor(block_height / 210000)`
684 2013-07-12 18:04:02 <bmcgee> mappum: grand that works too
685 2013-07-12 18:04:36 <bmcgee> so just to be clear if i grab a block template from bitcoind the height field is the current block height ?
686 2013-07-12 18:04:39 <mappum> but i guess that doesn't factor in fractional parts
687 2013-07-12 18:04:39 <mappum> is the next reward 12 or 12.5?
688 2013-07-12 18:04:46 <helo> 12.5
689 2013-07-12 18:05:53 <helo> bmcgee: height + 1, from the look of it
690 2013-07-12 18:06:07 <helo> at least - doing getinfo shows height, getblocktemplate shows height + 1
691 2013-07-12 18:06:19 <bmcgee> i'm guessing to allow for the block you're going to generate
692 2013-07-12 18:06:34 <helo> right
693 2013-07-12 18:06:43 <mappum> bmcgee: to fix my expression to factor in the stuff after the decimal point, `(50 * 100000 >> Math.floor(500000 / 210000)) / 100000`
694 2013-07-12 18:06:53 <bmcgee> mappum: thx
695 2013-07-12 18:07:05 <helo> 
ACTION claps for mappum 

696 2013-07-12 18:07:54 <mappum> only up to 1/100000 precision, it might break in 50 years
697 2013-07-12 18:08:15 <bmcgee> so to calculate the coinbase outputs i can take the height in the blocktemplate, punch it into mappum's approach and that gives me the reward. then stripe through the transactions, diff the inputs with the outputs and the leftovers go towards fees. combine the two and then divide up amongst the coinbase outputs as i see fit?
698 2013-07-12 18:08:41 <bmcgee> mappum: dude, only 50 years...
699 2013-07-12 18:10:01 <mappum> change the 100000 to 100000000 and it should last forever
700 2013-07-12 18:10:17 <helo> if you go up to 8 decimal places, and it goes to zero at block 6930000, you're doing it right :)
701 2013-07-12 18:10:35 <mappum> bmcgee: yeah, that sounds right
702 2013-07-12 18:11:02 <bmcgee> mappum: where is i substitute the current block height?
703 2013-07-12 18:11:43 <mappum> oops, i put 500000 there to make sure it was working :P
704 2013-07-12 18:11:52 <bmcgee> ha i was wondering
705 2013-07-12 18:12:00 <bmcgee> you were just testing me though...
706 2013-07-12 18:23:53 <helo> yeah, you'll want that last 100000 to be a float... so matching https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply: ((50 * 100000000) >> int(floor((6510000-1) / 210000))) / 100000000.0
707 2013-07-12 18:25:13 <c0rw1n> hrm
708 2013-07-12 18:27:08 <helo> probably best to just deal in satoshi though