1 2013-08-31 00:00:00 <petertodd> which allows them to compute (Ki'*Ji') and thus spend the txout. But if I understand it correctly, that's insecure because knowledge of any Ji' and J reveals J' right?
2 2013-08-31 00:00:38 <petertodd> Yeah, sounds like the idea doesn't work, and it's a good example of how someone who didn't know could have made something very insecure...
3 2013-08-31 00:19:41 <Luke-Jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/20130830-ReceiveMockup.png <-- mockup thoughts?
4 2013-08-31 00:41:58 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I like that, but if it hides the "get me an address to pay to" too much that might confuse people.
5 2013-08-31 00:42:35 <Luke-Jr> maybe a button for the double-clicked details?
6 2013-08-31 00:44:03 <gmaxwell> maybe the recieve pane should be split into "Make a payment request" and "just give me an address to recieve funds at"?
7 2013-08-31 00:56:21 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't see a use case for the latter.
8 2013-08-31 00:57:28 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: "legacy"
9 2013-08-31 00:58:05 <gmaxwell> It's how people are used to using it, it would be good to provide a bridge. perhaps even with a preference checkbox to turn off displaying it... and some magic so the preference is off for new wallets.
10 2013-08-31 00:58:09 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: we don't support it in Bitcoin-Qt today
11 2013-08-31 00:58:25 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: to create an address in Bitcoin-Qt, you are prompted for a label
12 2013-08-31 00:58:34 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: we have a "create new address" thing that gives you an addres, prompting you only for a label.
13 2013-08-31 00:58:40 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: same thing?
14 2013-08-31 00:58:58 <gmaxwell> from the picture it wasn't clear to me that I could just get an address from that.
15 2013-08-31 00:59:11 <Luke-Jr> you create the request, then rightclick, Copy Address
16 2013-08-31 00:59:16 <gmaxwell> e.g. without providing a value
17 2013-08-31 00:59:25 <Luke-Jr> oh
18 2013-08-31 00:59:33 <Luke-Jr> maybe some indicator all fields are optional then
19 2013-08-31 00:59:35 <gmaxwell> Like, I need an address for a mining pool to pay me. What do I press and how do I know to press it?
20 2013-08-31 01:00:00 <gmaxwell> and if the procedure involves "right click" I think it fails the user compatiblity test.
21 2013-08-31 01:01:03 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: if it's too easy, pools might not update to use HD pubkey chains
22 2013-08-31 01:01:07 <gmaxwell> but I think if after you do it you get a popup with the data (an address you can copy, a QR code, and a URI) which also tells you that you can right click and also tells you that you can turn off the popup.. that would be fine.
23 2013-08-31 01:01:51 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: maybe. I dunno, perhaps we've written off the common user in any case and we can go ahead and use the reference wallet for full on advocacy.
24 2013-08-31 01:03:07 <gmaxwell> But thats a non-trivial decision, unless we decide that we're willing to piss off users of the wallet ui we do need to have some consideration of existing behaviors, even if we know they're bad.
25 2013-08-31 01:04:04 <Luke-Jr> isn't the point of this change to discourage bad behaviours in the first place?
26 2013-08-31 01:04:15 <Luke-Jr> if we're not going to do that, might as well not change it
27 2013-08-31 01:05:07 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Sometimes you must raise the temp slowly when you want to boil a frog, or he will jump out. :)
28 2013-08-31 01:05:37 <gmaxwell> we can give people a better way to do it, and promote that way.. but if we make the old way too hard the users may switch to multibit.
29 2013-08-31 01:05:58 <Luke-Jr> ;)
30 2013-08-31 01:06:00 <gmaxwell> Then we lose a network node, and we get someone using a wallet that has pessimal behavior: no p2sh, constant address reuse, etc.
31 2013-08-31 01:06:41 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: for example you could make your form more clear by having a checkbox to activate the optional fields, off by default.
32 2013-08-31 01:06:51 <AlexNagy> gmaxwell: see any number of save vs. export discussions on the gimp-user mailing list.
33 2013-08-31 01:07:09 <gmaxwell> E.g. [ ] Request a specific payment amount [ 0] BTC.
34 2013-08-31 01:07:19 <Luke-Jr> hmm
35 2013-08-31 01:07:25 <AlexNagy> for changing something too quickly with out first advocating such a change.
36 2013-08-31 01:07:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: we could introduce it first with the checkboxes ... making it clear that its optional.. and later take them out once someone complaints that they're pointless. :P
37 2013-08-31 01:08:10 <Luke-Jr> heh
38 2013-08-31 01:08:48 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you could also have a couple more optional fields like "invoice number" "email address" "refund bitcoin address"
39 2013-08-31 01:09:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I figured the Email button would open the default mail client with an attachment
40 2013-08-31 01:09:54 <gmaxwell> unfortunately the payment protocol doesn't fit well in that usecase. :(
41 2013-08-31 01:13:12 <gmaxwell> Also UI wise. I wonder how bad it would be to add a yellow ??? or ??? to transactions which are paid to an address that you've recieved coins on before that when you clock on gives you a very kind little lecture on address reuse and recommends you give them an extended public key.
42 2013-08-31 01:21:48 <gmaxwell> I think that kind of education will be more effective than the fences of making it hard.
43 2013-08-31 01:22:00 <gmaxwell> Lets put users' OCD to work for us, rather than against us.
44 2013-08-31 01:22:32 <gmaxwell> "omg you moved my cheese and made my thing hard to do!" vs "omg foopool is making the naughty bang light up!!!"
45 2013-08-31 02:00:45 <weex> jgarzik: in pynode, any idea what i need to install to fix this error?
46 2013-08-31 02:00:47 <weex> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 0-3: ordinal not in range(128)
47 2013-08-31 02:01:04 <weex> this is in regards to NetMagic in coredefs.py in bitcoinlib
48 2013-08-31 02:01:08 <weex> i think
49 2013-08-31 02:02:01 <Krellan> Weird bitcoind network failure I saw at around 7 AM Pacific (1400 UTC) this morning
50 2013-08-31 02:02:16 <Krellan> At first I thought it was my network/internet but p2pool was still working just fine.
51 2013-08-31 02:02:37 <petertodd> weex: what exact version of bitcoinlib are you using?
52 2013-08-31 02:02:53 <weex> i just cloned master
53 2013-08-31 02:02:58 <Krellan> It was accepting connections, and making outbound connections, but no data would flow. I got the "socket no message in first 60 seconds" error repeatedly.
54 2013-08-31 02:03:08 <Krellan> Ever happen to anybody else?
55 2013-08-31 02:03:11 <petertodd> weex: could be my fault; line number?
56 2013-08-31 02:03:46 <weex> petertodd: 111 in ChainDB.py
57 2013-08-31 02:05:55 <petertodd> weex: Go to coredefs.py in python-bitcoinlib, and where it says NetMagic("\\xf9\\xbe\\xb4\\xd9", change it to NetMagic(b"\\xf9\\xbe\\xb4\\xd9",
58 2013-08-31 02:06:13 <petertodd> weex: Do this for both instances of NetMagic - that makes Python interpret the string as bytes rather than unicode.
59 2013-08-31 02:07:19 <weex> looks like that worked
60 2013-08-31 02:07:27 <weex> thanks!
61 2013-08-31 02:07:42 <petertodd> weex: Cool, I'll submit a pull-req to fix that, so it should be fixed upstream soon.
62 2013-08-31 02:08:08 <petertodd> weex: Out of curiosity, what do you use pynode for?
63 2013-08-31 02:08:23 <skeltoac> Anybody remember a proposal for adding sendmany support to bitcoin: URIs?
64 2013-08-31 02:08:30 <weex> petertodd: i'm trying it out, actually getting a can't find blk0001.dat error now
65 2013-08-31 02:08:38 <weex> it'd be for ltc though
66 2013-08-31 02:08:58 <petertodd> weex: can't find error? huh, could be my fault too :P
67 2013-08-31 02:09:11 <weex> heh, i looked for a tag to pull
68 2013-08-31 02:10:32 <gmaxwell> Krellan: no instances of that on my outbound only nodes.
69 2013-08-31 02:10:45 <weex> it creates its own blk0001.dat right? i shouldn't point it at the blocks dir right?
70 2013-08-31 02:10:47 <gmaxwell> I do have intances of that on my tor node.
71 2013-08-31 02:10:59 <petertodd> weex: not sure to be honest - what does the source do?
72 2013-08-31 02:11:03 <gmaxwell> Krellan: but I suspect its normal.
73 2013-08-31 02:11:37 <weex> petertodd: i'll look deeper and come back once i know something
74 2013-08-31 02:12:31 <petertodd> weex: mind telling me the line number where that error came from?
75 2013-08-31 02:12:54 <weex> petertodd: 636 in chaindb
76 2013-08-31 02:13:33 <skeltoac> a sendmany URI proposal appeared on bitcoin-development in May: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30882263
77 2013-08-31 02:13:47 <petertodd> weex: ah, probably not my fault then. (I made a bunch of changes to bitcoinlib recently)
78 2013-08-31 02:14:18 <skeltoac> tl;dr: allow a single URL to specify several recipients+amounts
79 2013-08-31 02:15:29 <gmaxwell> skeltoac: +1 for the idea of sendmany uris.. I had a use for them just a week ago.
80 2013-08-31 02:15:49 <skeltoac> well here's a patch: https://github.com/skeltoac/bitcoin/commit/8fb5f4b40e95bff6e01154d586e4068db43c7ab8
81 2013-08-31 02:16:52 <gmaxwell> (I don't have any opinions on the encoding??? I'll let someone who generally knows/cares about uris bikeshed that)
82 2013-08-31 02:17:03 <skeltoac> it would be nicer if I'd broken it down into at least 2 patches: one to prepare the plumbing, one to add the URI changes
83 2013-08-31 02:17:35 <skeltoac> that way the bikeshed would be already half painted while people decide on colors :)
84 2013-08-31 02:18:42 <petertodd> skeltoac: I dunno man, you gotta make sure you have the right primer for the application...
85 2013-08-31 02:19:22 <skeltoac> much of that patch is "primer"
86 2013-08-31 02:19:29 <skeltoac> what I was calling plumbing
87 2013-08-31 02:19:35 <petertodd> skeltoac: heh
88 2013-08-31 02:20:12 <skeltoac> anyway, now I can click on one of my newfangled URLs and it populates multiple recipients in qt
89 2013-08-31 02:20:40 <skeltoac> uh oh, there's a failed test I didn't notice.
90 2013-08-31 02:24:51 <skeltoac> it's cool, just a broken test in paymentservertests.
91 2013-08-31 02:37:40 <skeltoac> fixed in next commit??? though I'm sure I've overlooked the whole request signing thing
92 2013-08-31 02:38:05 <petertodd> jgarzik: Just noticed my make-bootstrap.py script also got d066814010e2f9717f36cbf8dcf9be70c372ef3956ea51fe4094e480048fa914 up to height 250000 inclusive
93 2013-08-31 02:38:06 <bizoro> there should be an usb device with bitcoin's downloaded chains and a good interface to use it, then it could be a kickstarter project of something
94 2013-08-31 02:38:33 <petertodd> bizoro: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/
95 2013-08-31 02:38:38 <bizoro> I mean, no need for interface, just bitcoin-qt
96 2013-08-31 02:38:38 <gmaxwell> bizoro: or we could just, you know, fix the sync process and remove 90% of the interest in something like that.
97 2013-08-31 02:39:02 <bizoro> gmaxwell, how to fix the sync?!
98 2013-08-31 02:39:52 <gmaxwell> by merging https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/headersfirst (After fixing some bugs in it)
99 2013-08-31 02:40:48 <bizoro> I mean, regular users don't trust their own computers, if you can make an external software that can secure stuff in it it will be great, like using simcards' key.... don't know
100 2013-08-31 02:41:35 <gmaxwell> bizoro: oh for that you want 21:38 < petertodd> bizoro: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/
101 2013-08-31 02:42:10 <gmaxwell> or whatever fpgaminer is working on??? his recent post on determinstic DSA fills me with hope
102 2013-08-31 02:42:29 <gmaxwell> petertodd: can you please talk to fpgaminer and help him make his hardware wallet awesomesauce?
103 2013-08-31 02:42:51 <weex> petertodd: my problem is i was trying all the options rather than starting minimal, and yes that load block thing is supposed to be pointed at a pre-existing blk00000X.dat fie
104 2013-08-31 02:42:54 <weex> file*
105 2013-08-31 02:43:04 <petertodd> gmaxwell: lol, sure, link?
106 2013-08-31 02:43:16 <petertodd> weex: ah cool
107 2013-08-31 02:43:33 <gmaxwell> petertodd: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285142.0
108 2013-08-31 02:43:44 <bizoro> that's sweet, gonna read about it, in fact I trust my system, I mean for regular windows users xP
109 2013-08-31 02:46:22 <jgarzik> petertodd, cool
110 2013-08-31 02:47:00 <jgarzik> petertodd, See, pynode has users we don't need to break ;p
111 2013-08-31 02:47:42 <jgarzik> petertodd, PS. Got a report that pynode gets stuck on a transaction you created? one that exercises the SignatureHash-returns-error-value detail.
112 2013-08-31 02:47:54 <jgarzik> petertodd, python-bitcoinlib might need to return 0, rather than 1.
113 2013-08-31 02:48:00 <jgarzik> in its SignatureHash
114 2013-08-31 02:48:03 <petertodd> jgarzik: oh! strange
115 2013-08-31 02:48:14 <petertodd> got the exact txid handy?
116 2013-08-31 02:50:12 <bizoro> Ok.. Trezor got my attention, nice thing
117 2013-08-31 02:51:19 <bizoro> software and hardware opensource... gonna buy and test that, thanks gmaxwell
118 2013-08-31 02:52:37 <jgarzik> petertodd, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260595.0
119 2013-08-31 03:00:21 <petertodd> jgarzik: No, it's the other way around: python-bitcoinlib needs to return 1 rather than zero.
120 2013-08-31 03:02:29 <Krellan> gmaxwell: Thanks. Problem is, this continued for something like 3 hours until I noticed my miners were down, then I restarted bitcoind and everything popped right back up to normal. Points to a possible bug in bitcoind, but I can't see where?
121 2013-08-31 03:03:20 <gmaxwell> Krellan: have a debug log covering this you can send me?
122 2013-08-31 03:04:37 <jgarzik> petertodd, whichever
123 2013-08-31 03:04:44 <jgarzik> petertodd, we are sync'd on the problem :)
124 2013-08-31 03:05:33 <Krellan> gmaxwell: Sorry, no, it was full of just those "60 seconds" messages, had been going on for hours, the interesting part (when it first happened) scrolled off.
125 2013-08-31 03:05:42 <gmaxwell> Krellan: :-/
126 2013-08-31 03:05:56 <gmaxwell> Krellan: you may have been getting attacked, or it may just be a locking bug in bitcoin.
127 2013-08-31 03:06:26 <Krellan> It smells like a locking bug. Wasn't being attacked, it happened on all peers, not just a few. Traffic wasn't high enough to be a DoS.
128 2013-08-31 03:06:49 <Krellan> Any debug settings to set, to catch it next time?
129 2013-08-31 03:07:06 <gmaxwell> well, debug=1 would have kept the log, and if we could see where it started that might have been informative.
130 2013-08-31 03:07:20 <Krellan> My args: ./bitcoind -server -debug -printtoconsole -logtimestamps -externalip=70.
131 2013-08-31 03:07:22 <gmaxwell> there is also some compile time locking debugging but it may be bitrotted. :(
132 2013-08-31 03:07:43 <gmaxwell> Krellan: why are you -printtoconsole? if you'd had that going to a debug.log we'd have the data...
133 2013-08-31 03:07:53 <Krellan> To avoid filling disk with spam I had it set to print to console, into a very large screen scrollback.
134 2013-08-31 03:07:58 <Krellan> Eviedntly not large enough.
135 2013-08-31 03:09:42 <petertodd> jgarzik: Didn't actually test that pull-req, but it should work...
136 2013-08-31 03:10:32 <gmaxwell> sipa: Can we rename -tor to -onion just had a forth person confused about what it does. (just make -tor a hidden alias)
137 2013-08-31 03:11:38 <Krellan> OK, restarted bitcoind, no more -printtoconsole, we'll see if it happens ever again. Hope it does, will be interesting.
138 2013-08-31 03:12:26 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, who uses forth+bitcoin?
139 2013-08-31 03:12:51 <petertodd> jgarzik: um... everyone? though not to forth's full potential...
140 2013-08-31 03:12:56 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, More seriously, what was the manner of confusion, and how would that solve it? Why is -tor confusing?
141 2013-08-31 03:13:31 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: do you know what -tor does? I bet if you guess you'll guess wrong. :P
142 2013-08-31 03:14:26 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: -tor tells it where a tor daemon is so it can reach .onion hidden service peers. It still makes and accepts ipv4 connections over the public internet.
143 2013-08-31 03:14:36 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if you want to actually anonymize yourself you use -proxy.
144 2013-08-31 03:15:13 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: and you can do things like -proxy <random v4 proxy used to reach the internet> -tor <tor node to reach hidden services> if you really want.
145 2013-08-31 03:15:49 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, huh, didn't know about the latter (still makes and accepts ipv4 connections)
146 2013-08-31 03:16:08 <jgarzik> ACTION always assumed it was an alias for -proxy. When I play w/ Tor+bitcoin, it is always with -proxy
147 2013-08-31 03:16:13 <gmaxwell> It's all explained in detail in doc/tor.md but ... like that has words. :P
148 2013-08-31 03:16:16 <jgarzik> guess not...
149 2013-08-31 03:17:36 <gmaxwell> thus the suggestion to rename -tor to -onion (or maybe -hiddenserviceproxy) ... as there have been a couple people lately mistaking it, one opened an issue and it even confused diapolo.
150 2013-08-31 03:21:04 <jgarzik> ACTION wonders if p2pool works over Tor
151 2013-08-31 03:23:07 <gmaxwell> it does... or did? I'm not currently using it that way but I have in the past.
152 2013-08-31 03:23:19 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/magnumripper/JohnTheRipper/blob/bleeding-jumbo/src/blockchain_fmt_plug.c < so, someone just pointed me to this.
153 2013-08-31 03:23:42 <jgarzik> I also worry about p2pool and eligius coinbase-payout approach? wonder what if any upper limit there is on number of payees
154 2013-08-31 03:23:50 <gmaxwell> Blockchain.info wallet cracker, does 10 million attempts per second on an apparently "low end" card, I am told.
155 2013-08-31 03:23:55 <jgarzik> it wouldbe nice to have p2pool-like capability in bitcoind itself
156 2013-08-31 03:24:13 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: both things are designed to limit it. Basically the p2pool share difficulty goes up, so there are just so many shares that can be paid.
157 2013-08-31 03:24:49 <gmaxwell> Eligius limits it by just setting a maximum and accruing balance for people (potentially paying into a temporary wallet)
158 2013-08-31 03:25:17 <gmaxwell> there is a @#$@ bug in cgminer on avalon that if the coinbase is too large it basically stops mining. Though con's very latest firmware may have fixed it.
159 2013-08-31 03:28:03 <gmaxwell> that same repo has a cracker for bitcoin-qt wallets... 8 attempts per second.
160 2013-08-31 03:29:51 <jgarzik> hah
161 2013-08-31 03:30:20 <jgarzik> I need to find somebody to review my JS wallet's AES file format
162 2013-08-31 03:30:48 <jgarzik> ACTION recently added encrypt-then-HMAC
163 2013-08-31 03:31:02 <jgarzik> which is all the rage now
164 2013-08-31 03:32:52 <Krellan> gmaxwell: for ping, maybe use RAND_pseudo_bytes() for each peer, instead of my current implementation which uses RAND_bytes() once then increments?
165 2013-08-31 03:34:55 <gmaxwell> Krellan: just rand_bytes them, we shouldn't be initiating pings that fast, and peers guessing our nonce lets them fake low latency to us.
166 2013-08-31 03:44:25 <Krellan> gmaxwell: at 8 bytes per outbound ping per peer, I don't want to burn the entropy pool that fast.
167 2013-08-31 03:44:41 <gmaxwell> Krellan: its infinite don't worry.
168 2013-08-31 03:44:54 <gmaxwell> if you create a guessable ping nonce I will have to kill you.
169 2013-08-31 03:44:57 <Krellan> 0
170 2013-08-31 03:44:58 <Krellan> :)
171 2013-08-31 03:45:18 <gmaxwell> I'd like to use peer latency as a secure heuristic for deciding what peers to keep when we're connection-full.
172 2013-08-31 03:45:22 <Krellan> Me too.
173 2013-08-31 03:45:46 <Krellan> I noticed that ping time can suddenly spike up, so I added "pingwait" to show the RPC caller when we're still waiting for a ping to be replied to.
174 2013-08-31 03:45:47 <gmaxwell> (latency is something a far away attacker cannot fake... so reserve some connections for low latency peers... uh. unless he can guess the sequences)
175 2013-08-31 03:46:24 <Krellan> i've seen great low ping times, until *something happens*, like a big newly solved block, then ping goes to heck until the network calms down once again.
176 2013-08-31 03:48:10 <gmaxwell> hm.. might want to track a minimum then too, since its the minimum thats super hard to fake.
177 2013-08-31 04:04:38 <Krellan> I tried reporting MAX(last ping time, how long we've been waiting for this ping time) but that had problems and was ambiguous upon interpretation.
178 2013-08-31 04:05:04 <Krellan> so I added two fields, "pingtime" and "pingwait" (pingwait is only visible when there's a ping actually outstanding).
179 2013-08-31 04:13:47 <Krellan> another bitcoind question: in the protocol handlers, I noticed none of them check for length before doing vRecv >> whatever.
180 2013-08-31 04:14:09 <Krellan> Intentional? I've seen pong come in with zero bytes of payload, surprisingly, which pops the exception in my pong handler, which tries to vRecv >> nonce.
181 2013-08-31 04:16:21 <jgarzik> hum
182 2013-08-31 04:18:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell / sipa: -proxy= -listen will only listen locally, I presume? (as no -externalip= is given)
183 2013-08-31 04:29:15 <Krellan> My pull request is getting a little long in the tooth. Should I make a new pull request and close what I have, or attempt to merge the latest bitcoind master into my branch?
184 2013-08-31 06:11:40 <Krellan> serialize.h question: in_avail(), why does it return int instead of size_t which it wraps?
185 2013-08-31 06:18:10 <jgarzik> Krellan, silliness
186 2013-08-31 06:19:21 <jgarzik> Krellan, I went through a while ago and converted several code locations s/int/unsigned int/ where it was obvious a negative number was impossible
187 2013-08-31 06:19:32 <jgarzik> Krellan, I think it's just Satoshi habit
188 2013-08-31 06:21:19 <Krellan> jgarzik: Thanks, was curious, I noticed it's not used anywhere I could find, was adding it to diagnose my weird pong messages I received with totally empty payload.
189 2013-08-31 06:25:37 <Krellan> who is that guy Satoshi anyway? we could ask him why he coded it that way. :)
190 2013-08-31 06:38:55 <Ulmo> I'm trying to take a snapshot of ~/.bitcoin from one computer and put it verbatim on another computer, except for wallet.dat. I did that in the middle of a -reindex of the target computer, because it was so damn slow. Now, the log is staying for a while in "Rescanning last 55332 blocks (from block 199869)...". I see this is to catch the old wallet up with the new files, so that's OK. I just want to know how long 55332 of the mos
191 2013-08-31 06:39:29 <Ulmo> No blocks/blk*dat or blocks/rev*dat files are being touched or opened or read or anything, so that's good I guess since that's what I was trying to skip
192 2013-08-31 06:41:03 <Ulmo> #bitcoin channel is talking about money, not programs, so I came here
193 2013-08-31 06:46:09 <Krellan> gmaxwell: There, instrumented pong handler, merged with latest upstream, leaving bitcoind running. Will see if any more strangely behaving peers appear.
194 2013-08-31 06:49:41 <Ulmo> 2013-08-31 08:38:28 rescan 510255ms <<<<< that's the answer. 55332 recent blocks rescanned took 510.255 seconds.
195 2013-08-31 09:16:23 <abrkn> should a service that accepts bitcoin payments restrict the nodes it connects to and noirc=1?
196 2013-08-31 09:16:42 <abrkn> or atleast addnode?
197 2013-08-31 09:21:33 <jouke> Has there allready been an update on the blockchain.info IOS-app to fix the DER encoding issues?
198 2013-08-31 09:29:25 <phantomcircuit> jouke, ?
199 2013-08-31 09:51:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: dure, if you think more aliasses will result in less confusion...
200 2013-08-31 09:53:37 <sipa> jgarzik: unsure, look at the code :)
201 2013-08-31 09:54:34 <sipa> abrkn: irc has been gone since ages
202 2013-08-31 09:54:58 <sipa> abrkn: and if you have actually trusted peers, feel free to addnode them
203 2013-08-31 10:02:25 <abrkn> sipa: i wouldnt know who to add
204 2013-08-31 10:06:51 <sipa> abrkn: theb don't :)
205 2013-08-31 10:06:55 <sipa> *then
206 2013-08-31 12:05:36 <ahmedbodi> hey guys i need some advice
207 2013-08-31 12:05:47 <ahmedbodi> how do i specify params on GBT
208 2013-08-31 12:06:24 <ahmedbodi> and also is it possible to just obtain specific value's
209 2013-08-31 12:06:57 <sipa> what kind of parameters?
210 2013-08-31 12:08:35 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: BIP 22; but note bitcoind ignores them
211 2013-08-31 12:09:40 <ahmedbodi> in BIP22 it talks about specifying params
212 2013-08-31 12:09:56 <ahmedbodi> and id like to just fetch things like coinbasevalue if possible
213 2013-08-31 12:10:06 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: not possible
214 2013-08-31 12:10:13 <Luke-Jr> you can ignore the other data of course
215 2013-08-31 12:10:22 <ahmedbodi> agreed
216 2013-08-31 12:10:38 <ahmedbodi> how do i specify the params since some other coins require it for some unknown reason
217 2013-08-31 12:12:37 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: that's a fundamental JSON-RPC thing
218 2013-08-31 12:12:46 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: and "other coins" are off topic in #bitcoin channels
219 2013-08-31 13:22:25 <porquilho> sa
220 2013-08-31 13:22:27 <porquilho> is bitcoinity working alright?
221 2013-08-31 18:11:48 <ahmedbodi> Luke-Jr: how is the target bit's in eloipool calculated, is it like pushpool or stratum?
222 2013-08-31 18:12:01 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: huh?
223 2013-08-31 18:13:09 <ahmedbodi> # Automatically adjust targets per username
224 2013-08-31 18:13:11 <ahmedbodi> # 0 = disabled
225 2013-08-31 18:13:12 <ahmedbodi> # 1 = arbitrary targets
226 2013-08-31 18:13:14 <ahmedbodi> # 2 = power of two difficulties (zero bit counts)
227 2013-08-31 18:13:15 <ahmedbodi> DynamicTargetting = 3
228 2013-08-31 18:14:31 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: I still don't understand your question.
229 2013-08-31 18:15:23 <sipa> Luke-Jr: he wants to know how to configure the share target/difficulty in eloipool
230 2013-08-31 18:15:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: however he wants? I don't see how pushpool or stratum are related to it.
231 2013-08-31 18:15:53 <ahmedbodi> "rpc.target.bits" : 20,
232 2013-08-31 18:16:08 <ahmedbodi> that is how its defined in pushpool
233 2013-08-31 18:16:14 <ahmedbodi> how is that defined in eloipool?
234 2013-08-31 18:16:26 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: that is not a pushpool option
235 2013-08-31 18:16:42 <ahmedbodi> yes it is, i've taken it from my own server.json
236 2013-08-31 18:16:59 <Luke-Jr> it's not part of pushpool
237 2013-08-31 18:17:26 <sipa> does that matter, his question is about eloipool...
238 2013-08-31 18:17:37 <ahmedbodi> perhaps its a part of artforz's fork and not jgarzik?
239 2013-08-31 18:17:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa: well, I'm going to have to guess what it means
240 2013-08-31 18:17:48 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: maybe, do you have a link?
241 2013-08-31 18:17:51 <ahmedbodi> basically the difficulty of each share
242 2013-08-31 18:17:55 <ahmedbodi> https://github.com/TheSerapher/php-mmcfe-ng/wiki/Quick-Start-Guide
243 2013-08-31 18:18:01 <ahmedbodi> scroll down to the pushpool config
244 2013-08-31 18:19:06 <Luke-Jr> just a min
245 2013-08-31 18:20:26 <Luke-Jr> looks tenebrix-specific - you're not asking for a scamcoinm are you?
246 2013-08-31 18:20:30 <Luke-Jr> scamcoin,*
247 2013-08-31 18:20:46 <ahmedbodi> nope for bitcoin
248 2013-08-31 18:20:57 <ahmedbodi> running a private bitcoin MM pool
249 2013-08-31 18:21:30 <Luke-Jr> ShareTarget = 0x0000000000ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
250 2013-08-31 18:21:33 <Luke-Jr> that should be 40
251 2013-08-31 18:21:37 <Luke-Jr> but you want 20..
252 2013-08-31 18:21:42 <Luke-Jr> bitcoin won't do under 32
253 2013-08-31 18:21:54 <Luke-Jr> ShareTarget = 0x00000000ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff <-- pdiff 1 aka 32 bits
254 2013-08-31 18:22:44 <ahmedbodi> share 40 should be fine, for an asic right?
255 2013-08-31 18:22:54 <Luke-Jr> 40 bits is pdiff 256
256 2013-08-31 18:23:03 <sipa> ahmedbodi: what hashrate?
257 2013-08-31 18:23:04 <Luke-Jr> my (partial) minirig usually runs at pdiff 128
258 2013-08-31 18:23:16 <sipa> "an asic" may be anything between 300 MH and 80 GH
259 2013-08-31 18:23:28 <Luke-Jr> usually you want to use the DynamicTargetting you pasted above, to let Eloipool pick a difficulty itself
260 2013-08-31 18:23:31 <ahmedbodi> well 80GH it should support
261 2013-08-31 18:23:44 <ahmedbodi> theres going to be around 20 or so miners on it
262 2013-08-31 18:24:03 <gribble> 11175870895385741579255808
263 2013-08-31 18:24:03 <sipa> ;;calc 80*10**30 * 600 / 2**32
264 2013-08-31 18:24:28 <gribble> 115.208589632
265 2013-08-31 18:24:28 <sipa> ;;calc log(80*10**30 * 600)/log(2)
266 2013-08-31 18:24:34 <sipa> ug
267 2013-08-31 18:24:40 <sipa> ;;calc log(80*10**9 * 600)/log(2)
268 2013-08-31 18:24:41 <gribble> 45.4480996394
269 2013-08-31 18:24:49 <gribble> 36.2192809489
270 2013-08-31 18:24:49 <sipa> ;;calc log(80*10**9)/log(2)
271 2013-08-31 18:25:29 <ahmedbodi> right okay thanks Luke-Jr
272 2013-08-31 18:39:37 <Mqrius> Can you re-send a bitcoin-qt transaction? It seems mine didn't make it onto the network because it was still syncing when I sent it
273 2013-08-31 18:43:39 <jouke> Mqrius: getrawtransaction sendrawtransaction
274 2013-08-31 18:44:11 <jouke> Hmmm, no that probably won't work on the same node.
275 2013-08-31 18:44:23 <jouke> You could use Arbition to send the raw transaction ;)
276 2013-08-31 18:44:40 <Mqrius> Heh, does arbitron take PMs?
277 2013-08-31 18:45:24 <Mqrius> Also, what's the most convenient way to send a rpc to bitcoin-qt
278 2013-08-31 18:46:07 <jouke> you could use the debug window
279 2013-08-31 18:46:13 <Mqrius> Oh right
280 2013-08-31 18:47:57 <sipa> Mqrius: it's resent automatically
281 2013-08-31 18:48:00 <sipa> but infrequently
282 2013-08-31 18:48:09 <sipa> ~ every 20 minutes, afaik
283 2013-08-31 18:48:27 <jouke> Mqrius: yes, Arbition takes PM's, but I don't know if freenode lets you sent the whole raw transaction to Abitron
284 2013-08-31 18:53:01 <Mqrius> Jouke: nope, it gets cut off.
285 2013-08-31 18:53:18 <jouke> aw
286 2013-08-31 18:53:42 <Mqrius> Using debug window doesn't work either, presumably because my local node already has those outputs as spent
287 2013-08-31 18:54:06 <sipa> just wait :)
288 2013-08-31 18:54:25 <Mqrius> Meh, I just want to turn my secure PC off when I'm done with it
289 2013-08-31 18:56:10 <Mqrius> Anyway, it's sent by now. It's a silly problem though.
290 2013-08-31 18:57:25 <Mqrius> What I actually don't get is why it didn't send out the transaction in the first place. Too busy downloading new blocks when I turned the PC off?
291 2013-08-31 18:58:43 <sipa> sending out a transaction is just submitting it to the local validation engine
292 2013-08-31 18:58:55 <sipa> if that doesn't consider it valid, it's ignored
293 2013-08-31 18:59:26 <Mqrius> Well it was valid, it was generated on qt itself.
294 2013-08-31 18:59:39 <Mqrius> It was simply 40 blocks away from sync
295 2013-08-31 18:59:44 <sipa> the validation engine can't know that before syncing up :)
296 2013-08-31 19:00:47 <Mqrius> That distinction is odd...
297 2013-08-31 19:01:28 <sipa> distinction?
298 2013-08-31 19:01:29 <Mqrius> I feel the validation engine should whitelist transactions coming from the local wallet
299 2013-08-31 19:01:46 <Mqrius> The divide between the wallet and the validation engine
300 2013-08-31 19:01:59 <sipa> it's absolutely essential
301 2013-08-31 19:02:07 <Mqrius> When?
302 2013-08-31 19:02:09 <sipa> we've been talking about even separating them into separate programs
303 2013-08-31 19:02:26 <sipa> they have no dependency on eachother, at least in theory
304 2013-08-31 19:02:54 <sipa> a wallet can work without validation engine (see SPV clients), and a validation engine is useful without a wallet
305 2013-08-31 19:03:51 <Mqrius> The problem I have with that is, as a regular user, I already know that the transaction is valid. A regular user in fact won't ever make invalid transactions. But there is no way for me to use that, so now I can't send any money until I'm fully synced, even though I know the transaction is valid
306 2013-08-31 19:05:07 <Mqrius> A regular user won't install his wallet in 2 places, so doublespends won't happen. Even if they do, the next node over will just ignore it.
307 2013-08-31 19:05:35 <Mqrius> Why not capitalize on that inherent knowledge and improve the user experience?
308 2013-08-31 19:06:00 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: one thing to note, however, is that with dynamic targetting you will need to log the share difficulty
309 2013-08-31 19:06:35 <ahmedbodi> i see, the current frontend doesnt support VARDIFF
310 2013-08-31 19:07:19 <ahmedbodi> working on addint it tho so i guess ill have to stick with a static target
311 2013-08-31 19:09:18 <sipa> Mqrius: it's useful to have a consistent state (if the wallet has transactions the mempool doesn't know about, transactions that depend on it would be valid to the wallet, but invalid to the validation engine)
312 2013-08-31 19:09:28 <sipa> Mqrius: it's also a situation that recovers automatically
313 2013-08-31 19:09:51 <sipa> Mqrius: and if your inputs to a transactions are already confirmed, they will be sent out fine
314 2013-08-31 19:11:04 <Mqrius> Sipa: you'll retain the consistent state: the wallet will send out the TX to the validation engine, that one will check it up to as many blocks as he has. If it's fine, then it's sent out.
315 2013-08-31 19:11:20 <sipa> Mqrius: that's exactly what happes
316 2013-08-31 19:11:37 <sipa> the validation engine doesn't even know whether it's up to date or not
317 2013-08-31 19:11:43 <Mqrius> You said the validation engine waits until it's synced..?
318 2013-08-31 19:11:50 <sipa> i simplified
319 2013-08-31 19:11:59 <sipa> if your inputs are confirmed, it will validate just fine
320 2013-08-31 19:12:03 <sipa> or in the mempool
321 2013-08-31 19:12:15 <sipa> sorry if i confused you
322 2013-08-31 19:12:19 <Mqrius> So why, when I sent out my TX, and turned off my PC, did it not get onto the network?
323 2013-08-31 19:12:40 <sipa> maybe it depended on some transactions your peers didn't know about yet
324 2013-08-31 19:12:49 <sipa> or it was dropped because of some throttling rule
325 2013-08-31 19:13:01 <sipa> there can be many reasons
326 2013-08-31 19:13:11 <sipa> the p2p network is a very unreliable communication mechanism
327 2013-08-31 19:13:15 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: with ASICs, there really isn't any single diff that works unless miners are all in the same range of hashrate
328 2013-08-31 19:13:23 <sipa> that's why the payment protocol submits transactions to the receiver
329 2013-08-31 19:13:27 <abrkn> at which point in bitcoind's startup is the rpc port opened?
330 2013-08-31 19:13:40 <sipa> abrkn: after loading the blockchain db and wallet
331 2013-08-31 19:14:09 <Mqrius> Sipa: Hm okay. Odd.
332 2013-08-31 19:14:26 <ahmedbodi> Luke-Jr: i agree, it can be a pain to get it working well, my current eloipool worked well with an 80gh asic but we've not tested with BE's until i recieve mine
333 2013-08-31 19:14:40 <sipa> Mqrius: the problem with using the p2p network as communication mechanism, is that you as a sender are responsible for rebroadcasting until it's in a block
334 2013-08-31 19:14:50 <sipa> Mqrius: as you have no idea whether the receiver got it
335 2013-08-31 19:15:08 <sipa> Mqrius: with the payment protocol, the transaction is sent directly to the receiver, so he can rebroadcast, and you can go offlien
336 2013-08-31 19:16:01 <Mqrius> Sipa: fair enough, I get what you're saying. Separately: I'm not up to date with the payment protocol, is that a bip? Or an analogy?
337 2013-08-31 19:16:11 <sipa> BIP 70
338 2013-08-31 19:18:21 <abrkn> i was listening to some backlog of letstalkbitcoin today. why are people so obsessed with confirmations? unless youre a casino or an exchange, why would you need any confirmations?
339 2013-08-31 19:18:38 <Mqrius> Nice bip, looks good :)
340 2013-08-31 19:19:51 <sipa> it's also implemented :p
341 2013-08-31 19:20:15 <Mqrius> Oh haha :) are exchanges using it yet?
342 2013-08-31 19:20:24 <sipa> no
343 2013-08-31 19:20:33 <sipa> there is no released implementation
344 2013-08-31 19:20:50 <Mqrius> Ah okay
345 2013-08-31 19:21:00 <abrkn> sipa: should exchanges go ahead an implement payment protocol? i have a habit of trying to implement things early
346 2013-08-31 19:21:07 <sipa> abrkn: yes please!
347 2013-08-31 19:21:27 <abrkn> sipa: which version of bitcoind is required?
348 2013-08-31 19:21:48 <sipa> the server side doesn't have anything to do with bitcoind
349 2013-08-31 19:22:22 <sipa> you just need to be able to generate addresses to pay to, put them in payment requests when downloaded, and hook incoming payments to your database (if any)
350 2013-08-31 19:23:02 <abrkn> sipa: i know absolutely nothing about payment protocol. do you have an url i can read up on?
351 2013-08-31 19:23:07 <sipa> BIP 70
352 2013-08-31 19:23:08 <abrkn> k
353 2013-08-31 19:23:26 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070
354 2013-08-31 19:29:12 <abrkn> hmm, does having a bootstrap.dat(.old) in your data dir cause bitcoind to shut down after loading it?
355 2013-08-31 19:29:53 <abrkn> https://gist.github.com/abrkn/be02148910282a2b5be4
356 2013-08-31 19:30:06 <sipa> no
357 2013-08-31 19:30:26 <sipa> shutdown requested
358 2013-08-31 19:30:50 <abrkn> ok, cant seem to figure out what's requesting it. broken upstart or monit script, then, i guess
359 2013-08-31 19:30:51 <sipa> you clicked exit, or sent sigint, or sent a stop RPC
360 2013-08-31 19:35:59 <n0ttgr> i had a few private keys to import
361 2013-08-31 19:36:01 <n0ttgr> (12)
362 2013-08-31 19:36:11 <n0ttgr> and ran importprivkey on them all separately in the debug
363 2013-08-31 19:36:15 <n0ttgr> it does a rescan for every import
364 2013-08-31 19:36:22 <n0ttgr> does that mean it's going to do 12 rescans or is it clever
365 2013-08-31 19:36:39 <sipa> use importprivkey <key> false
366 2013-08-31 19:36:44 <sipa> that disables rescanning
367 2013-08-31 19:36:50 <sipa> only enable it for the last one
368 2013-08-31 19:36:58 <n0ttgr> i guess now i'll have to kill bitcoin and use -rescan right?
369 2013-08-31 19:37:06 <n0ttgr> since it's frozen
370 2013-08-31 19:37:17 <sipa> really?
371 2013-08-31 19:37:22 <n0ttgr> yup
372 2013-08-31 19:37:25 <sipa> it shouldn't freeze
373 2013-08-31 19:37:42 <Luke-Jr> n0ttgr: also, you probably won't want to import them
374 2013-08-31 19:37:51 <sipa> oh, maybe in bitcoin-qt the gui blocks until the rpc command completes
375 2013-08-31 19:37:54 <sipa> no idea about that
376 2013-08-31 19:38:04 <n0ttgr> Luke-Jr: why
377 2013-08-31 19:38:06 <n0ttgr> oh that reminds me
378 2013-08-31 19:38:09 <n0ttgr> the reason why i'm importing them
379 2013-08-31 19:38:10 <Luke-Jr> n0ttgr: it's not safe usually
380 2013-08-31 19:38:15 <n0ttgr> is multibit will not allow me to spend them
381 2013-08-31 19:38:19 <n0ttgr> i'm getting a really dorky error
382 2013-08-31 19:38:26 <n0ttgr> "could not spend bitcoins null"
383 2013-08-31 19:38:36 <sipa> where do the keys come from?
384 2013-08-31 19:38:37 <n0ttgr> but that's not for this channel so yeah
385 2013-08-31 19:38:40 <n0ttgr> multibit
386 2013-08-31 19:38:52 <sipa> ok
387 2013-08-31 19:39:00 <Luke-Jr> Multibit development is on-topic here
388 2013-08-31 19:39:05 <n0ttgr> oh nice
389 2013-08-31 19:39:10 <Luke-Jr> although I don't know if anyone knowledgable is here
390 2013-08-31 19:41:38 <jcorgan> does anyone have any good references to studies about broadcast-relay type networks, such as bitcoin? propagation times, connectivity histograms, etc.?
391 2013-08-31 19:42:04 <sipa> i think the name you want to search for is "gossip networks"
392 2013-08-31 19:43:14 <jcorgan> thanks
393 2013-08-31 19:45:07 <jcorgan> "gossip protocols" is a rich vein of information
394 2013-08-31 19:59:10 <n0ttgr> does lockunspent take addresses as parameters?
395 2013-08-31 20:00:54 <Luke-Jr> n0ttgr: it shouldn't
396 2013-08-31 20:01:23 <Luke-Jr> I think
397 2013-08-31 20:01:30 <n0ttgr> doesn't seem like it does
398 2013-08-31 20:01:39 <n0ttgr> i just need a way to lock an address (or an account if necessary)
399 2013-08-31 20:01:59 <sipa> accounts have nothing to do with addresses
400 2013-08-31 20:02:11 <sipa> and don't have separate coins
401 2013-08-31 20:02:17 <sipa> so locking an account is meaningless
402 2013-08-31 20:02:29 <sipa> use listunspent to find the coins you want to lock, and lock them using lockunspent
403 2013-08-31 20:02:30 <n0ttgr> alright
404 2013-08-31 20:03:16 <jcorgan_> think i just got nuked
405 2013-08-31 20:04:26 <Luke-Jr> n0ttgr: it doesn't really make sense to lock an address either
406 2013-08-31 20:04:35 <Luke-Jr> n0ttgr: addresses are just destinations that point at your wallet
407 2013-08-31 20:04:52 <Luke-Jr> locking it would mean.. stopping people from sending to it. which is not possible
408 2013-08-31 20:05:19 <Luke-Jr> and lockunspent is for coins, not addresses
409 2013-08-31 20:05:58 <sipa> the only use case for that imho is if you want the prevent linkage between one (set of) addresses and another
410 2013-08-31 20:06:06 <sipa> coin control will allow that, but it's micromanagement
411 2013-08-31 20:06:27 <sipa> the real solution for that imho is just having separate wallets, but to make that convenient we really need multiwallet support
412 2013-08-31 20:08:53 <Luke-Jr> ACTION hopes multiwallet support will allow him using coin control to mix wallets anyway <.<
413 2013-08-31 20:09:06 <Luke-Jr> was CC merged yet? <.<
414 2013-08-31 20:09:06 <maaku> sipa: there are use cases invoving using an output as a semaphore
415 2013-08-31 20:09:19 <maaku> but yes, a separate wallet could manage that as well
416 2013-08-31 20:09:21 <Luke-Jr> maaku: outputs are outputs, not addresses
417 2013-08-31 20:09:37 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i think maaku knows that :)
418 2013-08-31 20:10:02 <maaku> oh i thought sipa was talking about lockunspent in general
419 2013-08-31 20:10:09 <Luke-Jr> aha
420 2013-08-31 20:11:05 <sipa> maaku: oh, lockunspent is more low-level and can be used for several purposes
421 2013-08-31 20:11:16 <sipa> maaku: but locking an address sounds like a way to prevent linking
422 2013-08-31 20:11:54 <maaku> it sounds like a way of emulating multi-wallet support
423 2013-08-31 20:12:02 <maaku> better to just add multi-wallet support :)
424 2013-08-31 20:12:04 <sipa> yeah
425 2013-08-31 20:13:28 <maaku> is this the official testnetin a box : https://github.com/freewil/bitcoin-testnet-box ?
426 2013-08-31 20:14:02 <sipa> there is one on sf.net, but no idea how uptodate it is
427 2013-08-31 20:14:05 <Luke-Jr> maaku: there is no official! :P
428 2013-08-31 20:14:15 <Luke-Jr> sipa: gavin just updated it I think
429 2013-08-31 20:14:26 <maaku> heh, true
430 2013-08-31 20:14:35 <abrkn> if i run bitcoind with gen=1 on my macbook air, what is the probability that i'll find a block in my lifetime? say 50 years
431 2013-08-31 20:14:54 <maaku> abrkn: zero
432 2013-08-31 20:15:05 <maaku> (underflow)
433 2013-08-31 20:15:08 <abrkn> hehe
434 2013-08-31 20:15:13 <abrkn> it's just fascinating
435 2013-08-31 20:16:06 <abrkn> is this more than tinfoil hat speculation? http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/the-well-deserved-fortune-of-satoshi-nakamoto/
436 2013-08-31 20:16:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 65750060.1491, is 3.05950452541e-05 BTC per day and 1.27479355226e-06 BTC per hour.
437 2013-08-31 20:16:13 <sipa> ;;genrate 4
438 2013-08-31 20:16:54 <sipa> abrkn: about 2%
439 2013-08-31 20:17:08 <sipa> (assuming the difficulty stays constant, which is absolutely won't)
440 2013-08-31 20:17:19 <maaku> sipa: ignoring the skyrocking rise in difficulty around the corner...
441 2013-08-31 20:17:37 <abrkn> sipa: thanks. people ask me about mining all the time (i dont know or care about it) and its cool to quote that
442 2013-08-31 20:17:38 <sipa> what do you mean "around the corner"? it's been going on for months...
443 2013-08-31 20:17:39 <maaku> abrkn: there's a long thread on the forum about SDL's analysis
444 2013-08-31 20:18:05 <maaku> sipa: tip of the iceberg...
445 2013-08-31 20:18:08 <abrkn> maaku: in your opinion, how probable is the theory?
446 2013-08-31 20:18:38 <maaku> i see no flaw, so very likely. but what does it matter?
447 2013-08-31 20:19:08 <sipa> maaku: i don't think the growth *rate* will increase much anymore
448 2013-08-31 20:19:25 <sipa> relative rate, in %/day, i mean
449 2013-08-31 20:19:33 <abrkn> maaku: it doesnt matter. for all i know, whoever has those coins, has lost them, died or will die without spending them or giving them away. simply interesting
450 2013-08-31 20:19:57 <maaku> abrkn: bitcoin is still very much in its infancy
451 2013-08-31 20:20:21 <maaku> if i had that many coins, I'd be hanging on to them too
452 2013-08-31 20:20:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: considering the cheap 1 Th miners in 2014?
453 2013-08-31 20:21:02 <maaku> i'd be interested to see if those coins stay dormant if/when a quality coinjoin implementation is released...
454 2013-08-31 20:21:04 <sipa> Luke-Jr: yes
455 2013-08-31 20:21:21 <abrkn> maaku: coinjoin?
456 2013-08-31 20:21:27 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i didn't say it wouldn't increase anymore, just not much :)
457 2013-08-31 20:21:37 <maaku> abrkn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0
458 2013-08-31 20:21:40 <abrkn> maaku: is that one of the mixers?
459 2013-08-31 20:21:58 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: compressing the transactions of multiple people into one
460 2013-08-31 20:22:03 <abrkn> i see
461 2013-08-31 20:22:31 <abrkn> when someone makes a working "no-trust" mass scale mixer, how much volume we'll see
462 2013-08-31 20:22:35 <sipa> Luke-Jr: 2.5%/day growth is already insane, it means a factor 10 per 3 months...
463 2013-08-31 20:22:46 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: coinjoin makes mixers unnecessary
464 2013-08-31 20:23:00 <gmaxwell> I think I ought to set my client to kickban anyone that uses the word "mixer" or "laundry"
465 2013-08-31 20:23:22 <sipa> brb, need to check my laundry
466 2013-08-31 20:23:24 <jcorgan> gmaxwell: why?
467 2013-08-31 20:23:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: lol
468 2013-08-31 20:24:00 <abrkn> gmaxwell: dont get me wrong, i run an exchange with full kyc and whatnot and we'll instantly lifetime ban anyone mentioning sr, etc
469 2013-08-31 20:24:00 <maaku> personally i wish people would focus more on the other applications like colored coin exchange, matched donations
470 2013-08-31 20:24:30 <sipa> which exchange?
471 2013-08-31 20:24:47 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: do you have Florida money transmission licenses?
472 2013-08-31 20:24:49 <abrkn> sipa: justcoin.com ( https://github.com/justcoin/snow )
473 2013-08-31 20:24:55 <jcorgan> how does mentioning specific words on irc pose any danger to anyone?
474 2013-08-31 20:25:00 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: not american and we do not deal with usd
475 2013-08-31 20:25:00 <sipa> hmm, never heard of it
476 2013-08-31 20:25:06 <maaku> blockexplorer.com doesn't support P2SH addresses...
477 2013-08-31 20:25:08 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: aww
478 2013-08-31 20:25:18 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: i'd love to, but... just so much trouble
479 2013-08-31 20:25:26 <Luke-Jr> jcorgan: it's annoying at least :p
480 2013-08-31 20:25:37 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: yeah, I imagine
481 2013-08-31 20:25:54 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: but find me another country that can compete with the USA on freedom and I'll consider moving :p
482 2013-08-31 20:26:11 <Luke-Jr> or even just basic human rights
483 2013-08-31 20:26:15 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: dont move here then (norway). we're communist by american standards
484 2013-08-31 20:26:19 <Luke-Jr> lol
485 2013-08-31 20:26:19 <maaku> Luke-Jr: iceland
486 2013-08-31 20:26:33 <jcorgan> i love traveling to scandanavia
487 2013-08-31 20:26:36 <sipa> whole europe is communist by USA standard, i'm sure
488 2013-08-31 20:27:02 <abrkn> i guess
489 2013-08-31 20:27:20 <Luke-Jr> maaku: you aren't trying, are you? :p
490 2013-08-31 20:27:21 <abrkn> find me a country thats run by economists and i'm buying a plane ticket
491 2013-08-31 20:27:27 <jcorgan> but never enough to not get back on that return flight
492 2013-08-31 20:27:30 <Luke-Jr> maaku: Iceland seems to deny some of the most fundamental rights
493 2013-08-31 20:27:43 <gmaxwell> jcorgan: because some words are loaded with political or legal meaning, thats all. (I didn't mean it seriously??? but I'm personally made uncomfortable by the people jumping into irc yabbering about "I just bought the best chronic! and hey how do I launder money!!")
494 2013-08-31 20:27:45 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: it's been a concern for me that if we ever open usd trading, i can never go to the us
495 2013-08-31 20:27:58 <sipa> maaku: dude, in Iceland there are laws that prevent you from naming your child in a way that cannot be conjugated in their language!
496 2013-08-31 20:28:27 <jcorgan> gmaxwell: yeah, i get it, i just have an allergic reaction to automated rules like that :)
497 2013-08-31 20:28:46 <abrkn> gmaxwell: i think the days of worrying about sr are over. look at media coverage, nobody gives a shit about the stoners anymore. thank god
498 2013-08-31 20:29:59 <n0ttgr> is there a multibit developer i can ping about this (serious) bug privately, as i do not want to post on github's issue tracker about it
499 2013-08-31 20:30:14 <sipa> n0ttgr: mail jim, i guess
500 2013-08-31 20:30:15 <n0ttgr> looks like they go out of their way to avoid direct communication with users lol
501 2013-08-31 20:30:20 <jcorgan> we're making progress, it's more acceptable to smoke cannabis or be gay than to be a US congressman
502 2013-08-31 20:30:51 <gmaxwell> n0ttgr: why would you bother concealing a bug that just makes sending funds hard?
503 2013-08-31 20:31:33 <sipa> also, it's already in the log of a public IRC channel
504 2013-08-31 20:31:41 <abrkn> ^ haha
505 2013-08-31 20:32:06 <sipa> s/log of a public/public log of a/
506 2013-08-31 20:33:55 <maaku> sipa: wonder if I can find a way to conjucate Aron');DROP TABLE Users;-- in Icelandic...
507 2013-08-31 20:35:17 <abrkn> what?
508 2013-08-31 20:35:24 <abrkn> did you just sqli me on irc...
509 2013-08-31 20:35:41 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: you must not read xkcd
510 2013-08-31 20:35:58 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: i catch up every few months. never found a decent rss reader
511 2013-08-31 20:36:06 <Luke-Jr> it's an old one
512 2013-08-31 20:36:15 <Luke-Jr> the child is named something with a SQL injection
513 2013-08-31 20:36:20 <abrkn> oh haha
514 2013-08-31 20:36:29 <abrkn> i see it now, thats great
515 2013-08-31 20:36:38 <abrkn> trolling mastery
516 2013-08-31 20:37:23 <Luke-Jr> btw, if I suddenly vanish in a few days, let it be a lesson to everyone not to let a cat in your house
517 2013-08-31 20:37:23 <sipa> little bobby tables
518 2013-08-31 20:37:25 <Luke-Jr> <.<
519 2013-08-31 20:38:02 <abrkn> have you ever seen one of those github code searches that identify exploitable code? fascinating
520 2013-08-31 20:38:06 <sipa> xkcd 327
521 2013-08-31 20:38:47 <sipa> very old :)
522 2013-08-31 20:42:07 <Luke-Jr> http://bitcointroll.org/?topic=281043.0 <-- epic fail
523 2013-08-31 20:42:58 <abrkn> uh
524 2013-08-31 20:44:16 <abrkn> i have no idea how mining works. you just take last hash + hash of some new transactions + nonce and try to get a hash that meets some criteria?
525 2013-08-31 20:45:04 <abrkn> well, adjust nonce until hash meets the criteria