1 2013-10-02 00:27:11 <coingenuity> jaychristopher: (floatval)$amount
  2 2013-10-02 00:27:13 <coingenuity> just fyi
  3 2013-10-02 00:27:28 <jaychristopher>  i just added 0
  4 2013-10-02 00:27:37 <jaychristopher> $amount = $amount + 0;
  5 2013-10-02 00:27:43 <jaychristopher> any advantage to doing floatval?/
  6 2013-10-02 00:27:53 <coingenuity> change the data type to float, it's more reliable
  7 2013-10-02 00:28:07 <coingenuity> you could send the wrong amount of BTC if your code is buggy with the maths
  8 2013-10-02 00:28:08 <jaychristopher> okay cool, will do thanks
  9 2013-10-02 00:28:12 <coingenuity> np
 10 2013-10-02 00:36:05 <flibbr-dev> anyone know anything or got any updates on progress of : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2861
 11 2013-10-02 00:36:33 <jgarzik> flibbr-dev, functionally it is pretty much complete
 12 2013-10-02 00:36:53 <jgarzik> flibbr-dev, but watch-only address support is blocked on a cultural argument of "watch only wallets make more sense"
 13 2013-10-02 00:37:23 <jgarzik> because mixing watch-only and normal addresses results in all addresses appearing in 'getinfo' balance, and other wallet reporting functions.
 14 2013-10-02 00:37:31 <jgarzik> That may or may not be what is expected.
 15 2013-10-02 00:37:35 <sipa> there have been complaints that it is overly complex, because few need a wallet with mixed nornal and watchonly addresses
 16 2013-10-02 00:37:55 <sipa> and i think that makes sense
 17 2013-10-02 00:38:20 <sipa> the problem is that the alternative is much mote useful in combination with multiwallet
 18 2013-10-02 00:38:30 <sipa> which doesn't seem to be going anywhere
 19 2013-10-02 00:38:49 <Luke-Jr> I'd think there'd also be a problem of an ever growing "balance" on the mixed wallet :p
 20 2013-10-02 00:38:58 <Luke-Jr> since addresses are only used for receiving
 21 2013-10-02 00:39:26 <jgarzik> yes
 22 2013-10-02 00:39:31 <jgarzik> but that may be useful
 23 2013-10-02 00:39:39 <jgarzik> you can monitor cold + hot storage
 24 2013-10-02 00:40:04 <sipa> it becomes even more useful in combination with bip32 where change addresses are automatically added and dervied
 25 2013-10-02 00:40:24 <sipa> though that is technically mostly orthogonal
 26 2013-10-02 00:40:38 <gmaxwell> it occured to me that the current output locking we have is also a lot like watching wallets.
 27 2013-10-02 00:40:51 <jgarzik> wallet needs to make that persistent
 28 2013-10-02 00:40:58 <jgarzik> as a next step for locked outputs
 29 2013-10-02 00:41:03 <gmaxwell> agreed.
 30 2013-10-02 00:41:12 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that would show transactions spending coins created by those watch-only addresses
 31 2013-10-02 00:41:24 <gmaxwell> But perhaps we should have a "locked" balance, and in that case then any watching keys are just always locked and not unlockable?
 32 2013-10-02 00:41:45 <jgarzik> that is an interesting point, though.  Had not thought of locked outputs as watch-only, but functionally that is the case.
 33 2013-10-02 00:41:55 <jgarzik> and it does create a multi-balance situation.
 34 2013-10-02 00:42:00 <jgarzik> (which I did know)
 35 2013-10-02 00:42:23 <sipa> why do interesting discussions always happen here when i'm supposed to be asleep? :(
 36 2013-10-02 00:42:31 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, I think that is a useful model, yes
 37 2013-10-02 00:42:38 <jgarzik> works nicely for both features
 38 2013-10-02 00:42:53 <gmaxwell> I also suspect that 'lockunspent' really needs a saved reason. A couple times now I've been unable to figure out _why_ I had an output locked.
 39 2013-10-02 00:43:15 <midnightmagic> sipa: because I have to go home and make tunafish sandwiches. :(
 40 2013-10-02 00:43:20 <Luke-Jr> lol
 41 2013-10-02 00:43:47 <sipa> ewww tunafish
 42 2013-10-02 00:43:54 <sipa> sounds fishy
 43 2013-10-02 00:43:58 <gmaxwell> (I'd also been thinking about some settings that automatically locked some inputs— e.g. people paying dust to your old change addresses... which was why I noticed the watching symmetry)
 44 2013-10-02 00:43:58 <midnightmagic> yum yum. certified dolphin-free
 45 2013-10-02 00:44:37 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, should be straightforward to add a comment, when storing the output locks in wallet
 46 2013-10-02 00:45:35 <gmaxwell> (and, if you're auto-locking outputs like that, you'd really want a balance of locked outputs displayed... (so you don't go ditching a good wallet with funds in it because they're all locked)... and thus the symmetry)
 47 2013-10-02 00:46:12 <sipa> interesting
 48 2013-10-02 00:46:52 <sipa> i'll see if i can retrofit the watchonly coins into islocked
 49 2013-10-02 00:48:07 <jgarzik> Appears straightforward to update the array-of-objects that RPC 'lockunspent' receives, to add a 'comment' field to each object.
 50 2013-10-02 00:48:41 <jgarzik> I guess we want a spendable-balance and unspendable-balance
 51 2013-10-02 00:49:05 <jgarzik> (where 'balance' == spendable balance, for backwards compat)
 52 2013-10-02 00:49:34 <Luke-Jr> with an encrypted wallet, should 100% be unspendable? ;)
 53 2013-10-02 00:52:26 <sipa> Luke-Jr: what would that mean in practice?
 54 2013-10-02 00:52:49 <sipa> just that it's listed under unspendable-balance?
 55 2013-10-02 00:53:02 <sipa> if that's the only effect, i'd say
 56 2013-10-02 00:53:05 <sipa> no
 57 2013-10-02 00:53:42 <sipa> though it may make sense to convert an encrypted wallet into a watch-only wallet
 58 2013-10-02 00:56:08 <sipa> maybe just add a boolean to getbalance, to select whether wat honly/locked coins should be included
 59 2013-10-02 00:56:46 <sipa> 
ACTION zZzZ

 60 2013-10-02 00:57:18 <jgarzik> sipa, yah, that would be fine for 'getbalance'
 61 2013-10-02 00:57:35 <jgarzik> though I think the kitchen sink (aka getinfo) should go ahead and display all balances
 62 2013-10-02 00:57:52 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, no
 63 2013-10-02 01:24:31 <owowo> http://isthegovernmentopen.com/images/obama.gif
 64 2013-10-02 01:24:44 <owowo> oops, wrong channel
 65 2013-10-02 03:47:08 <flibbr-dev> sipa, jgarzik, sorry for the slow replys, thanks for the intel & appreciate this discussion re the watch only addresses. I'm doing some dev work and right now, the only way for me to listunspent for a address [my site creates 'web wallets'] is to query blockchain.info/unspent?address=. .  but this feature would obviously allow local watching which would be massively help (not having to
 66 2013-10-02 03:47:09 <flibbr-dev> rely on 3rd party provider). .
 67 2013-10-02 03:49:53 <flibbr-dev> I agree 'balance' should in theory show 'spendable balance' and can also understand possible side with the 'watch only wallets' though if this creates unessesary bloat / complication I do not know.
 68 2013-10-02 03:55:10 <flibbr-dev> If I had funding or c++ skills I'd contribute towards getting this watch only addresses finalized off. I think for merchant support, security is a top priority, and that to me means creating 'web wallets', ie, storing the privatekey encrypted in the database. . which means their wallet for my site is not actually in my wallet. .  so this type of feature would be very helpful.
 69 2013-10-02 03:57:02 <CodeShark> I got a little bit of the latter - and am working towards a good solution to this problem...
 70 2013-10-02 03:57:38 <CodeShark> if I could only get passed this tedious hurdle of setting up a good build environment :p
 71 2013-10-02 04:04:52 <flibbr-dev> CodeShark, sounds good to me :)
 72 2013-10-02 04:07:13 <CodeShark> is there a simple way to get g++ to stop filling my screen with errors immediately upon encountering the first fatal error so I can easily experiment with different commands without having to scroll through thousands of lines?
 73 2013-10-02 04:09:16 <CodeShark> there's -Wfatal-errors, but an error can be thousands of lines long :(
 74 2013-10-02 09:52:53 <jgarzik> pushing another !pwalletMain change
 75 2013-10-02 09:53:00 <jgarzik> cherry-picked from my no-wallet PR
 76 2013-10-02 10:41:07 <hydromet> Does anyone know if Dark Wallet makes use of the Stratum protocol?
 77 2013-10-02 11:21:49 <jgarzik> mornin'
 78 2013-10-02 11:47:47 <melvster> jgarzik: morning ... saw your post on auth using digital sigs
 79 2013-10-02 11:48:01 <melvster> i think that's the way to go, but browsers can already do this using SSL
 80 2013-10-02 11:48:46 <melvster> the server sends a random number (challenge), and your private key signs it (using credentials in the browser ie a client side cert) and then you are authenticated
 81 2013-10-02 11:49:17 <melvster> ive been using this to login to every website I build passwordlessly (is that a thing?) for about 5 ears
 82 2013-10-02 11:49:18 <melvster> years
 83 2013-10-02 11:49:47 <melvster> most browsers and web servers support this already
 84 2013-10-02 11:49:57 <K1773R> melvster: ACK, thats the way to go :) tough only few websites/services support this (most due with GPG)
 85 2013-10-02 11:50:13 <melvster> it's not GPG, it's X.509
 86 2013-10-02 11:50:33 <hydromet> jgarzik: good morning
 87 2013-10-02 11:50:35 <melvster> strangely GPG and X.509 have different formats for their private keys + certificates (means key value pairs)
 88 2013-10-02 11:50:40 <jgarzik> 
ACTION is just happy to poke people into thinking about anything other than passwords

 89 2013-10-02 11:50:47 <jgarzik> New exchanges are popping up
 90 2013-10-02 11:50:49 <jgarzik> securing millions
 91 2013-10-02 11:50:53 <melvster> +1
 92 2013-10-02 11:50:54 <jgarzik> and store passwords
 93 2013-10-02 11:51:03 <K1773R> melvster: yea, i know. just wanted to support it by relating to the webservices which use GPG for auth
 94 2013-10-02 11:51:05 <hydromet> indeed
 95 2013-10-02 11:51:22 <hydromet> jgarzik: what do you make of Dark Wallet and if they might be using Stratum?
 96 2013-10-02 11:51:31 <xeroc> login into inputs.io via gpg decrypt is a great 2fac
 97 2013-10-02 11:51:45 <jgarzik> <shrug> Dark Wallet is uninteresting ploy for media attention
 98 2013-10-02 11:51:48 <melvster> jgarzik: we just persuaded MIT to become an identity provider which will put certs in your browser so that you dont need passwords -- maybe people, however, like mozilla, argue that storing private keys on the client is too hard for users
 99 2013-10-02 11:52:28 <melvster> i dont agree with that, but it's the dominant industry view
100 2013-10-02 11:53:51 <melvster> most things support RSA and DER ... ECDSA has less support but hopefully getting better!
101 2013-10-02 11:54:17 <melvster> some ECDSA curves are part of NSS but not the BTC one iirc, due to NIST recs
102 2013-10-02 11:54:26 <melvster> NIST recommends another curve
103 2013-10-02 11:54:37 <jgarzik> that's a feature ;p
104 2013-10-02 11:54:53 <melvster> yeah!  satoshi knew his stuff! :P
105 2013-10-02 11:55:07 <tgs3> satoshi <3
106 2013-10-02 11:55:17 <sipa> melvster: SEC standardized several curves, some of which were later (simultaneously?) standardized by NIST
107 2013-10-02 11:55:18 <melvster> even tho he says he picked it at random ... I *highly* doubt that! :D
108 2013-10-02 11:55:22 <nsh> satoshi keeps me safe on the road
109 2013-10-02 11:55:26 <nsh> and wards off vampires
110 2013-10-02 11:55:30 <melvster> lol
111 2013-10-02 11:55:44 <sipa> and it seems the one chosen by satoshi was purely SEC, without NIST "influence"
112 2013-10-02 11:55:51 <nsh> what keydepth was satoshi's public key?
113 2013-10-02 11:55:54 <nsh> RSA1024?
114 2013-10-02 11:55:59 <nsh> 2048?
115 2013-10-02 11:56:15 <melvster> sipa: there's an old forum post where he explains why he picked that curve ... but I'm sure that's not the whole story
116 2013-10-02 11:56:34 <sipa> melvster: i think it is
117 2013-10-02 11:56:57 <sipa> i don't consider satoshi a crypto expert
118 2013-10-02 11:57:09 <sipa> he just accidentally chose a nice curve
119 2013-10-02 11:57:15 <melvster> sipa: well sure ... but one thing about satoshi is that he researched stuff thoroughly
120 2013-10-02 11:58:20 <melvster> sipa: you could well be right ... but satoshi and accidentally are terms that dont often go together :)
121 2013-10-02 11:58:58 <jgarzik> I think Satoshi picked a lot of bits off the shelf
122 2013-10-02 11:59:03 <jgarzik> (which was good)
123 2013-10-02 11:59:09 <sipa> yeah
124 2013-10-02 11:59:18 <melvster> 'bits' off the shelf :D
125 2013-10-02 11:59:23 <sipa> 256 of 'em!
126 2013-10-02 12:00:00 <sipa> melvster: note that in 2009, EC curves were less common, and it may just have been less clear that P-256 would end up being the "usual" 256 bit curve at time
127 2013-10-02 12:00:11 <melvster> true
128 2013-10-02 12:00:49 <hydromet> How much bitcoin would anyone like to bet me that Satoshi learned quite a bit from from David Chaum's failed attempts in the 1990s at e-cash?
129 2013-10-02 12:00:50 <hydromet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum
130 2013-10-02 12:01:03 <jgarzik> no bet, he said as much
131 2013-10-02 12:01:04 <hydromet> Chaum's problem in part was holding lots of patents
132 2013-10-02 12:01:14 <jgarzik> Chaum's problem was centralization
133 2013-10-02 12:01:25 <hydromet> centralization and patents
134 2013-10-02 12:01:28 <jgarzik> Chaum and OpenCoin followed amusingly similar paths
135 2013-10-02 12:01:35 <jgarzik> One company trying to bootstrap thing
136 2013-10-02 12:02:22 <hydromet> jgarzik: I do worry a bit that someone with deep VC pockets such as in Silicon Valley will try to figure out how to co-opt Bitcoin (despite its decentralized nature)
137 2013-10-02 12:02:55 <hydromet> just look at what the monster companies did with the 'net and the web (Facebook, Google et al
138 2013-10-02 12:03:26 <jgarzik> "figure out"?   doubtful
139 2013-10-02 12:03:39 <melvster> hydromet: lol google already employ some bitcoin folks ;)
140 2013-10-02 12:03:47 <jgarzik> People with money and power can always co-opt bitcoin quite openly, no secrets to figure out
141 2013-10-02 12:03:52 <hydromet> yeah, I know that seems illogical of me to say
142 2013-10-02 12:04:29 <melvster> hydromet: yes satoshi has been active at least since 1998 ... he certainly knew about Chaum's work
143 2013-10-02 12:04:32 <hydromet> melvster: yes, I know (e.g., Mike)
144 2013-10-02 12:05:13 <melvster> to be fair i think google have been super supportive of bitcion to date ...
145 2013-10-02 12:05:28 <hydromet> how so?
146 2013-10-02 12:05:47 <melvster> paying devs, adding bitcion: URI scheme to chrome
147 2013-10-02 12:05:53 <hydromet> and in theory, why would Bitcoin need Google's support?
148 2013-10-02 12:06:10 <melvster> hydromet: it's free software, anyone is invited to help :)
149 2013-10-02 12:06:18 <hydromet> exactly
150 2013-10-02 12:06:31 <melvster> i dont think bitcion will be co opted, not easily ... it's on a great trajectory
151 2013-10-02 12:06:48 <hydromet> I'm a little bit cautious though on why anyone would be compelled to say "to be fair" to Google
152 2013-10-02 12:07:20 <hydromet> "don't be evil"
153 2013-10-02 12:07:25 <_dr> because they're screwing you over when they can to make money off you?
154 2013-10-02 12:07:25 <hydromet> Google motto
155 2013-10-02 12:07:33 <_dr> like any company does
156 2013-10-02 12:08:14 <_dr> "don't be stupid" :-)
157 2013-10-02 12:08:27 <hydromet> _dr: indeed
158 2013-10-02 12:09:39 <hydromet> or "don't be naive"  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/technology/google-accused-of-wiretapping-in-gmail-scans.html
159 2013-10-02 12:09:50 <melvster> hydromet: i think people are slightly more cautious of all the big companies, post snowden
160 2013-10-02 12:11:54 <hydromet> melvster: indeed and its refreshing they are so thanks to da kine Snowden
161 2013-10-02 12:11:56 <jgarzik> Anyone who uses GMail, yet thinks their email private, is a loon.  This has been known since before Google even existed as a company (as others were doing webmail and adding anti-privacy clauses to ToS, to enable searching and such)
162 2013-10-02 12:14:13 <_dr> calls for a cypherpunk renaissance. i was positively surprised to read about an email provider on /. that plans to offer two-/threefish and skein in addition to the nist-/nsa-weakened standards
163 2013-10-02 12:14:32 <hydromet> Bitcoin is making some news as of yesterday via Reuters http://mobilebeta.reuters.com/bitcoin-buzz-grows-among-venture-investors-1
164 2013-10-02 12:14:50 <hydromet> such as with the Bitcoin Investment Trust (a ETF of sorts?)
165 2013-10-02 12:15:06 <jgarzik> Yes, BIT is like a bitcoin ETF.
166 2013-10-02 12:15:09 <melvster> hydromet: back to he topic, I'm pretty sure satoshi was very familiar with the work of chaum, adam back of course, maybe not so much nick szabo ... then there's old stuff like lucre etc.
167 2013-10-02 12:15:26 <jgarzik> 
ACTION has been in contact with various folks trying to create a bitcoin ETF for 2+ years

168 2013-10-02 12:16:00 <melvster> jgarzik: talk to max keiser ... he wants to do something similar I believe
169 2013-10-02 12:16:09 <warren> those bitcoin ETF's are hurting the very thing that they are holding by taking units out of useful circulation
170 2013-10-02 12:16:16 <jgarzik> Max and RT are a bit much for my tastes.
171 2013-10-02 12:16:24 <sipa> well bitcoin is pretty much the exact opposite of chaumian e-money... it's decentralized but pseudonymous; e-money is centralized but anonymous
172 2013-10-02 12:16:59 <jgarzik> warren, eh not really
173 2013-10-02 12:17:00 <melvster> warren: but they multiply up the non base money supply
174 2013-10-02 12:17:09 <melvster> good old fractional reserve :)
175 2013-10-02 12:17:12 <hydromet> melvster: regarding Chaum, didn't the feds (gov) also sniff out the threat of e-cash and thus put out the fire before it got going (besides the centralization and patents issues)?
176 2013-10-02 12:17:32 <warren> I'd argue this point, but really need to sleep.
177 2013-10-02 12:17:53 <tgs3> but wait the feds are good, no?
178 2013-10-02 12:18:10 <melvster> hydromet: something like that, but here wasnt a huge amount of development work going on, like there is today, there was true ledger and a few other bits and pieces ...
179 2013-10-02 12:18:17 <jgarzik> ETFs hold only as much as investors themselves want to hold.  It functions as sort of a bitcoin wallet for people with USD and Charles Schwab account.
180 2013-10-02 12:18:19 <hydromet> jgarzik: any thoughts on the the BIT ETF just announced?
181 2013-10-02 12:18:31 <melvster> it took satoshi to really create a paradigm shift
182 2013-10-02 12:18:32 <jgarzik> hydromet, long predicted.  great for bitcoin.
183 2013-10-02 12:18:51 <jgarzik> hydromet, Giving anybody with a brokerage account access to bitcoin is nice.
184 2013-10-02 12:19:16 <melvster> hmm ... but how do they determine the expiry price?  average of exchanges?
185 2013-10-02 12:19:33 <hydromet> melvster: I think you're probably right about this (and just look at the feds in the U.S, the politicians can't keep the gov running 100% not to mention the perpetual debt ceiling problems)
186 2013-10-02 12:19:35 <xeroc> short question: isnt this the -dev channel .. this discussion perfectly fits to #bitcoin .. not the devel-chan. .. am i wrong?
187 2013-10-02 12:20:09 <warren> in practice things become on-topic in -dev because devs are talking about it. =P
188 2013-10-02 12:20:11 <melvster> xeroc: yes you're right :)
189 2013-10-02 12:20:13 <jgarzik> xeroc is correct :)
190 2013-10-02 12:20:35 <warren> apparently HPMOR was on topic a few weeks ago.  (I still refuse to read it.)
191 2013-10-02 12:20:43 <xeroc> just mean .. if some are interssted in this talk .. and are not developers .. they will not be in -dev
192 2013-10-02 12:20:51 <sipa> warren: why?
193 2013-10-02 12:20:56 <hydromet> xeroc: good point
194 2013-10-02 12:21:05 <warren> sipa: oh no, you're another one? =)
195 2013-10-02 12:21:15 <sipa> warren: disclaimer: i never read HP itself
196 2013-10-02 12:21:35 <warren> me neither, and I'm aware that makes HPMOR better or something.
197 2013-10-02 12:21:49 <melvster> xeroc: thanks for the reminder, good point, in truth there's always a slight overlap between different IRC channels, hence "chat", but good to stay on topic ...
198 2013-10-02 12:22:10 <sipa> xeroc: it's sort-of inevitable that channels sometimes go offtopic, and imho, that's ok
199 2013-10-02 12:22:34 <sipa> xeroc: when people are talking about serious things, offtopic becomes offtopic automatically really :)
200 2013-10-02 12:22:48 <xeroc> sipa .. shure .. i just meant that at some point you may consider moving the discussion to #bitcoin...
201 2013-10-02 12:23:47 <sipa> i don't think it works like that... topics arise among people in a channel because they contribute to it; far from everyone will want to join another channel just to continue a discussion
202 2013-10-02 12:24:02 <sipa> i'm not saying you're wrong of course; sometimes things do get really offtopic here
203 2013-10-02 12:24:02 <xeroc> good point
204 2013-10-02 12:24:15 <xeroc> ^.^
205 2013-10-02 12:24:34 <Graet> nothing stopping ppl lurking in here and reading
206 2013-10-02 12:24:40 <Graet> 
ACTION goes back to lurking

207 2013-10-02 12:25:07 <hydromet> xeroc: we could talk sports such as cricket or baseball and that would be quite OT :)
208 2013-10-02 12:25:31 <t7> is there a cricket irc channel?
209 2013-10-02 12:25:43 <hydromet> t7: good question
210 2013-10-02 12:25:43 <sipa> only an ircket one
211 2013-10-02 12:25:50 <xeroc> 
ACTION did not want to interrupt anybody from discussing anything ....

212 2013-10-02 12:26:14 <sipa> xeroc: no worries :p
213 2013-10-02 12:26:18 <xeroc> i was just wondering about the talk ..
214 2013-10-02 12:26:22 <xeroc> ^.^
215 2013-10-02 12:26:24 <sipa> you just spawned a meta-discussion
216 2013-10-02 12:26:26 <Vl4dim1r> lurk
217 2013-10-02 12:27:34 <hydromet> xeroc: my apologies, I kind of spurred some of the OT about the Reuters article and ETFs ... even though this is the dev channel, its healthy to have some related topics such as what the world is reporting on about Bitcion
218 2013-10-02 12:27:44 <hydromet> it might have an influence on the developers?
219 2013-10-02 12:27:53 <hydromet> in terms of what to develop?
220 2013-10-02 12:28:13 <xeroc> no need for apologies ..
221 2013-10-02 12:28:37 <t7> take it to #bitcoin-meta guys
222 2013-10-02 12:29:08 <xeroc> hydromet: you are taking me too seriously .. i REALLY was just wondering about the non-technical talk here ..
223 2013-10-02 12:29:09 <hydromet> t7: there really is a #bitcoin-meta channel? I thought you were kind of joking before
224 2013-10-02 12:29:14 <sipa> can you please take your comments about moving to #bitcoin-meta to #bitcoin-meta-meta?
225 2013-10-02 12:29:21 <Graet> lol, lonely place that t7
226 2013-10-02 12:29:25 <xeroc> sipa lol
227 2013-10-02 12:29:33 <Graet> lol
228 2013-10-02 12:30:07 <t7> on meta.stackoverflow you can talk about meta.stackoverflow  ... so maybe the meta channel is like that and we don't need infinity -metas
229 2013-10-02 12:30:31 <xeroc> reminds me of "to understand recursion ...."
230 2013-10-02 12:31:52 <jgarzik> please move discussions of #bitcoin-meta to #bitcoin-meta-meta
231 2013-10-02 12:32:07 <jgarzik> damn , sipa beat me to it
232 2013-10-02 12:32:16 <jgarzik> 
ACTION needs more pseudo-coffee

233 2013-10-02 12:33:11 <K1773R> jgarzik: grep coffee /dev/urandom
234 2013-10-02 12:33:29 <melvster> while bitcoin has a *base* money supply of 21 million ... every time a balance is recorded in bitcoin, the *total* money supply goes up, so an ETF even if it does not take money out of the block chain can settle using it's cash reserves, and more bitcions can trade ... I think it's a good thing personally ... off block stuff is going to happen more and more, and that will help performance
235 2013-10-02 12:33:33 <K1773R> since u dont want a true coffee :P
236 2013-10-02 12:34:10 <sipa> melvster: ??
237 2013-10-02 12:34:40 <jgarzik> K1773R, American soda
238 2013-10-02 12:34:41 <xeroc> its about liquidity (is this the right term for that)
239 2013-10-02 12:34:59 <melvster> sipa: every time an IOU is written in bitcoin by a trusted party, there's a bigger overall supply out there, just like in the gold market many ETFs trade gold without owning 100% of the physical
240 2013-10-02 12:35:11 <melvster> it's leverage
241 2013-10-02 12:35:14 <sipa> melvster: oh, ok, sure
242 2013-10-02 12:35:24 <sipa> money as debt :)
243 2013-10-02 12:35:30 <melvster> exactly!
244 2013-10-02 12:36:04 <_dr> so we'll have real bitcoins and worthless bitcoins, great!
245 2013-10-02 12:36:15 <lmatteis> how is a Block generated?
246 2013-10-02 12:36:22 <jgarzik> ETFs aren't IOUs, at least in regulated markets.  A bitcoin ETF /must/ be able to buy and sell the underlying commodity.   Of course, the commodity may be bought or sold with a fractional reserve fiat currency, margin loans, or other instruments of debt and destruction.
247 2013-10-02 12:36:24 <lmatteis> like a block is a bunch of unverified transactions say
248 2013-10-02 12:36:38 <melvster> _dr: if you want real bitcions use the block chain and pay the transaction fee, and wait for the confirms ... that will always be available
249 2013-10-02 12:36:51 <jgarzik> (now this isn't strictly true on an hourly basis, but it must be true over a longer timescale)
250 2013-10-02 12:37:47 <_dr> can't wait for people to 'buy' worthless bitcoins, that can be printed just like $, to find out they're worth nada. way to boost confidence!
251 2013-10-02 12:39:01 <melvster> _dr: just wait for 3 confirms and you'll be fine
252 2013-10-02 12:39:08 <melvster> or dont deal with scammers
253 2013-10-02 12:39:53 <_dr> i was taking about fractional reserve bitcoin banking with ETFs or whatever it is called
254 2013-10-02 12:40:09 <michagogo> cloud|lmatteis: Miners remember transactions that they see
255 2013-10-02 12:40:27 <michagogo> cloud|They assemble transactions into a block, and then double-SHA256 the block
256 2013-10-02 12:40:29 <melvster> _dr: they will just settle at the market price if they run out ... that's more or less what the CFTC said about gold ETFs
257 2013-10-02 12:40:42 <michagogo> cloud|If the hash is low enough to be a valid block, they broadcast it
258 2013-10-02 12:40:56 <hydromet> the financial engineering of bitcoin
259 2013-10-02 12:40:59 <michagogo> cloud|If it's not, they change it very slightly and try again
260 2013-10-02 12:42:50 <melvster> jgarzik: I can give you a demo next week of how I do passwordless login using PKI, if you're interested?
261 2013-10-02 12:43:20 <jgarzik> melvster, I know SSL can do it easily
262 2013-10-02 12:43:26 <melvster> we may be able to apply the same to ECDSA, I know someone has written an extension to do it ...
263 2013-10-02 12:43:28 <melvster> for chrome
264 2013-10-02 12:43:30 <jgarzik> so few users have client certs though
265 2013-10-02 12:43:36 <melvster> yes very true
266 2013-10-02 12:44:31 <jgarzik> Another part of the authentication picture is simply usability.  It's not a tech problem, per se.  Must find a model that does not require any secrets on the website/server side.
267 2013-10-02 12:44:45 <melvster> jgarzik: did you see http://joecascio.net/joecblog/2013/03/25/collateralized-identity-using-bitcoin-to-suppress-sockpuppets/
268 2013-10-02 12:44:50 <jgarzik> the cert UIs and infrastructure are quite immature today
269 2013-10-02 12:45:00 <melvster> yes they are
270 2013-10-02 12:45:53 <melvster> "I've built a very small proof-of-concept that demonstrates registration and login to an example web site with a Chrome Extension and local http service that communicates with the Bitcoin-Qt reference wallet application using the standard bitcoin-json API. " -- Joe Casclo
271 2013-10-02 12:47:29 <melvster> jgarzik: we have a thread on identity + auth going at the w3c payments group ... if you're interested I can send you a link, or you can join the conversation ... there's quite a few btc folks on there now
272 2013-10-02 12:48:07 <jgarzik> melvster, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1
273 2013-10-02 12:48:24 <melvster> nice!
274 2013-10-02 12:48:32 <jgarzik> melvster, SIN is a bitcoin-address-like object, to which you attach digitally signed hashes (private) or keypairs (public)
275 2013-10-02 12:49:02 <jgarzik> melvster, SIN uses same ECDSA curve and other details as bitcoin
276 2013-10-02 12:49:09 <melvster> jgarzik: that's the way to go imho
277 2013-10-02 12:49:13 <jgarzik> you can even trivially convert a bitcoin address into a SIN, and vice versa
278 2013-10-02 12:49:23 <jgarzik> with the same key
279 2013-10-02 12:49:55 <melvster> jgarzik: why not just use the bitcoin: URI scheme or something like it?
280 2013-10-02 12:50:22 <jgarzik> melvster, I think it is important to separate SIN and bitcoin address conceptually
281 2013-10-02 12:50:40 <melvster> jgarzik: sure, that's true
282 2013-10-02 12:50:59 <melvster> ive been thinking about this too
283 2013-10-02 12:51:16 <melvster> there's a more general concept of 'digest URIs' di:
284 2013-10-02 12:51:17 <jgarzik> melvster,  it is mechanical to convert, if that becomes necessary.  But engineering efficiencies and safety (human psychology) benefit from separation, IMO
285 2013-10-02 12:51:20 <melvster> which I've been thinking about using
286 2013-10-02 12:51:28 <jgarzik> melvster, yeah that works
287 2013-10-02 12:51:48 <melvster> jgarzik: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-digesturi-02
288 2013-10-02 12:52:09 <melvster> you can even do things like:  http://di.example.com/.well-known/di/sha-256/
289 2013-10-02 12:52:10 <melvster>    B_K97zTtFuOhug27fke4_Zgc4Myz4b_lZNgsQjy6fkc
290 2013-10-02 12:52:14 <melvster> so they get spidered
291 2013-10-02 12:53:18 <melvster> just mail the IETF guys if you have a use case that isnt covered
292 2013-10-02 12:53:29 <melvster> they are normally pretty helpful and happy to update stuff
293 2013-10-02 12:54:09 <melvster> 
ACTION back to study! ... chat soon! :)

294 2013-10-02 15:55:57 <jgarzik> http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf  </off-topic>
295 2013-10-02 15:58:03 <BlueMatt> nice! fbi finally shut it down
296 2013-10-02 16:00:38 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it's a pretty wild document.
297 2013-10-02 16:01:09 <melvster> probably a good thing for btc in general
298 2013-10-02 16:02:41 <BlueMatt> 
ACTION finds it interesting only one person was charged, but maybe more come later

299 2013-10-02 16:03:42 <gmaxwell> The day of the arrest someone claiming to be DPR emailed me, I assume some screwed up attempt to entrap me. Ineffective, since I have no interest in any of that stuff though.
300 2013-10-02 16:04:17 <BlueMatt> lol, that was a pretty bad attempt...
301 2013-10-02 16:09:19 <Luke-Jr> nobody was silly enough to think I might be involved, apparently :p
302 2013-10-02 16:12:05 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: Perhaps your phone will stop being on permanent transmit now? :)
303 2013-10-02 16:12:11 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: well the message was kinda boring. I'm not quite sure what they were trying for.
304 2013-10-02 16:13:05 <Luke-Jr> heh
305 2013-10-02 16:13:21 <Luke-Jr> I hope it won't be problematic that this description of Bitcoin claims it is anonymous..
306 2013-10-02 16:17:20 <MC1984> DPR?
307 2013-10-02 16:20:27 <BlueMatt> MC1984: guy who runs the thing
308 2013-10-02 16:21:24 <MC1984> oh the dead pirate guy
309 2013-10-02 16:22:26 <MC1984> why would anyone be emailing bitcoin devs trying to entrap, dont they understand the distinction?
310 2013-10-02 16:22:27 <MC1984> gosh
311 2013-10-02 16:22:32 <tgs3> sup MC1984 my terrorist you
312 2013-10-02 16:23:37 <tgs3> gmaxwell: what arrest, who tried to entrap you - is this story posted anywhere? seems interesting
313 2013-10-02 16:24:34 <tgs3> I'm not up to date on this story... what did the best democracy ever did now?
314 2013-10-02 16:27:18 <Luke-Jr> tgs3: it's actually good news
315 2013-10-02 16:27:31 <Luke-Jr> tgs3: Silk Road being shutdown and its operator prosecuted
316 2013-10-02 16:27:38 <tgs3> lol seriously?
317 2013-10-02 16:27:45 <tgs3> but... how?
318 2013-10-02 16:28:02 <tgs3> I thought FH was busted, now SR too?
319 2013-10-02 16:28:03 <Luke-Jr> how what? read it, it's kinda off-topic here really
320 2013-10-02 16:28:30 <tgs3> ok so it was not related to bitcoin security itself anyway?
321 2013-10-02 16:29:25 <Luke-Jr> nah
322 2013-10-02 16:36:09 <BlueMatt> 26k btc seized...lets see what the doj does with them
323 2013-10-02 16:36:52 <tgs3> BlueMatt: what feds always does with lots of no-ones money
324 2013-10-02 16:37:00 <tgs3> donate to orphans and cancer research
325 2013-10-02 16:37:08 <tgs3> patent free cancer research ofc
326 2013-10-02 16:38:48 <BlueMatt> well its not exactly trivial to sell them off
327 2013-10-02 16:41:29 <michagogo> BlueMatt: Why not?
328 2013-10-02 16:41:36 <michagogo> There are dark pools...
329 2013-10-02 16:42:08 <BlueMatt> well, for starters, as the feds, which site do you go to that is considered legal in the us that you want to sell at
330 2013-10-02 16:42:10 <BlueMatt> ?
331 2013-10-02 16:42:35 <michagogo> localbitcoins? :-P
332 2013-10-02 16:42:41 <BlueMatt> yeaaaa.....
333 2013-10-02 17:22:29 <edcba> so we'll finally now if bitcoin main attract was drugs or not ?
334 2013-10-02 17:23:12 <swulf--> i give it 5 days until SR number 2 comes up
335 2013-10-02 17:24:28 <edcba> 3 millions dollars is not that much
336 2013-10-02 17:24:56 <edcba> even if compared to other illegal activities it may be quite good
337 2013-10-02 19:29:49 <tim-tams> Anyone know why my BTC addresses imported to Multibit from a Blockchain.info backup would not match?
338 2013-10-02 19:30:29 <tim-tams> some do and some don't, the one's that don't were originally from QT and the ones that do were created on blockchain.ingo
339 2013-10-02 19:30:31 <tim-tams> info*
340 2013-10-02 19:30:59 <jgarzik> sounds like compressed versus uncompressed public keys
341 2013-10-02 19:31:54 <jgarzik> a single private key PrK may produce a compressed public key CPK or an uncompressed public key UPK.  Thus, each private key may result in _two_ bitcoin addresses.
342 2013-10-02 19:32:04 <jgarzik> because bitcoin address == hash(public key)
343 2013-10-02 19:32:12 <sipa> for a single secp256k1 private key, that is true
344 2013-10-02 19:32:15 <tim-tams> will that cause conflict?
345 2013-10-02 19:32:26 <sipa> for bitcoin private keys, not really, because they contain a flag to indicate which public key to use
346 2013-10-02 19:32:30 <lianj> tim-tams: no, the base58 encoded privkey has a flag for it
347 2013-10-02 19:32:37 <sipa> though not every application supports compressed one in the first place
348 2013-10-02 19:32:48 <tim-tams> so i can send to either address an it will record on both wallets?
349 2013-10-02 19:32:54 <sipa> no
350 2013-10-02 19:32:59 <sipa> you import exactly one
351 2013-10-02 19:33:07 <sipa> and you send to the corresponding address
352 2013-10-02 19:33:35 <tim-tams> so basically, when I imported it it became an entirely different pub/private key pair?
353 2013-10-02 19:33:48 <sipa> i believe multibit can't import compressed keys
354 2013-10-02 19:34:00 <sipa> it supports them natively, but can't import them or so
355 2013-10-02 19:34:25 <sipa> (my data may be outdated or simply wrong)
356 2013-10-02 19:34:35 <tim-tams> I'm a little lost but at least I know not to treat the addresses as the same
357 2013-10-02 19:35:01 <tim-tams> is there any way to convert the addresses on blockchain.info to uncompresses before backing them up?
358 2013-10-02 19:35:10 <sipa> yes, but that's not relevant
359 2013-10-02 19:35:23 <sipa> if you convert the key, the address will be different, and not match transactions sent to it
360 2013-10-02 19:35:33 <tim-tams> couldn't I convert them to the right format and THEN import to multibit?
361 2013-10-02 19:35:45 <sipa> no, because the address will be different
362 2013-10-02 19:35:48 <tim-tams> hmm
363 2013-10-02 19:35:56 <tim-tams> address changes every time you convert it?
364 2013-10-02 19:36:00 <lianj> no, you have to find a way to import the compressed ones in multibit then
365 2013-10-02 19:36:17 <tim-tams> this is so confusing haha, sorry
366 2013-10-02 19:36:45 <sipa> the compressed key has one address, the uncompressed key has another address
367 2013-10-02 19:36:54 <sipa> for all intents and purposes, they are separate
368 2013-10-02 19:37:00 <tim-tams> Ook then
369 2013-10-02 19:37:24 <tim-tams> makes sense I guess, so you can't move from QT to MB and keep the same public addresses?
370 2013-10-02 19:37:55 <sipa> maybe
371 2013-10-02 19:37:58 <sipa> i'm unsure
372 2013-10-02 19:38:37 <tim-tams> I'll probably just not even use multibit then, thanks anyway
373 2013-10-02 19:38:46 <tim-tams> I'll just keep using blockchain.info
374 2013-10-02 19:39:59 <jgarzik> tim-tams, Armory is a good one to try.
375 2013-10-02 19:40:18 <tim-tams> can armory reach around a firewill through ssh tunnel?
376 2013-10-02 19:40:38 <tim-tams> basically, can you choose specific nodes?
377 2013-10-02 19:40:49 <tim-tams> to connect to?
378 2013-10-02 19:41:31 <jgarzik> tim-tams, I think so
379 2013-10-02 19:41:39 <sipa> armory uses bitcoind in the background...
380 2013-10-02 19:42:07 <tim-tams> ok
381 2013-10-02 19:42:11 <tim-tams> I may give that a shot
382 2013-10-02 19:42:23 <tim-tams> should my keys import properly there?
383 2013-10-02 19:42:37 <tim-tams> I think I must have a mix of compressed and uncompressed
384 2013-10-02 19:43:57 <jgarzik> tim-tams, I don't know.
385 2013-10-02 19:44:11 <jgarzik> tim-tams, Seems like it would be simpler to send all to new address (new key) in new wallet.
386 2013-10-02 19:44:21 <lianj> tim-tams: do some don't start with a 5
387 2013-10-02 19:44:46 <tim-tams> I'm not sure about that, I can try to check
388 2013-10-02 19:46:38 <tim-tams> lianj what format do I check that in? bitcoin QT format shows some start with a 5, some with an L, and one even starts with a K
389 2013-10-02 19:46:40 <lianj> but yea, thats prolly the cause. and yes, either fix multibit import or send them to a new address maybe
390 2013-10-02 19:46:54 <lianj> yea, the l and k ones are compressed
391 2013-10-02 19:47:03 <sipa> K and L are private keys with corresponding compressed pubkey
392 2013-10-02 19:47:08 <tim-tams> Ook
393 2013-10-02 19:47:09 <sipa> 5 is uncompressed
394 2013-10-02 19:48:28 <tim-tams> but if I uncompress a key, it will no longer resolve to the same public address right?
395 2013-10-02 19:48:43 <lianj> rite
396 2013-10-02 19:49:37 <tim-tams> So I just need a client that handles both, because I've got some compressed that I need to keep and some uncompressed I need to keep...
397 2013-10-02 19:51:13 <michagogo> tim-tams: Or just transfer the coins to an address or several addresses generated by your new wallet
398 2013-10-02 19:52:55 <tim-tams> michagogo I kinda wanted to keep the public addresses too though, but I'll figure something out
399 2013-10-02 19:53:02 <tim-tams> not just the coins
400 2013-10-02 19:53:07 <michagogo> ah
401 2013-10-02 19:53:36 <michagogo> Well, you could run a client that supports sweeping and have it sweep those addresses into another one
402 2013-10-02 19:53:41 <michagogo> or something like that
403 2013-10-02 19:53:49 <tim-tams> Are the addresses that appeared in MultiBit still usable though? or are the corrupted somehow because I imported compresses and it doesn't like that?
404 2013-10-02 19:54:00 <tim-tams> they*
405 2013-10-02 20:11:48 <Ry4an> xbox feed definition meeting: "Should we offer a way to say what the primary audio language is?" "Sure, why not." "Should it be mandatory?" "Of course!"
406 2013-10-02 20:11:53 <Ry4an> repeat for 100 items
407 2013-10-02 20:16:38 <Ry4an> sorry, wrong channel
408 2013-10-02 20:16:59 <Ry4an> though if any of you ever get asked to produce an XML feed for Xbox as a favor, don't say yes. :)
409 2013-10-02 20:42:33 <roconnor> what's silk road's "tumber"?
410 2013-10-02 20:53:20 <jgarzik> roconnor, mixer
411 2013-10-02 20:55:23 <gmaxwell> roconnor: what the complaint describes and what the'd previously described is that they obscured their coins by just cascading them between addresses, not actually a rigorous anonymization procedure. (Not that it would have helped them.)
412 2013-10-02 20:59:24 <jgarzik> The indictment is a laundry list of poor opsec.
413 2013-10-02 21:06:33 <roconnor> gmaxwell: how disappointing.
414 2013-10-02 21:07:21 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: I agree
415 2013-10-02 21:07:37 <Diablo-D3> the moral of the story is
416 2013-10-02 21:07:42 <Diablo-D3> if you're going to sell drugs on the internet
417 2013-10-02 21:08:01 <Diablo-D3> have a computer that only connects to the internet via tor, and only use your anon accounts on that computer
418 2013-10-02 21:08:16 <Diablo-D3> and never EVER mention ANYTHING on your real accounts
419 2013-10-02 21:08:21 <BlueMatt> or...follow your own advice
420 2013-10-02 21:09:25 <Diablo-D3> he got busted for failing the last one
421 2013-10-02 21:09:31 <Diablo-D3> they connected real life info to him
422 2013-10-02 21:10:15 <lianj> Diablo-D3: yea, running tor is easy, using tor+internet right when your freedom depends on it is the real skill
423 2013-10-02 21:10:49 <swulf--> so how did they find the location of the server?
424 2013-10-02 21:11:18 <swulf--> credit card history to hosting provider?
425 2013-10-02 21:11:22 <roconnor> gmaxwell: is there any level in which I can see that cascading coins between addresses will obsucre anything?
426 2013-10-02 21:12:54 <Diablo-D3> swulf--: probably
427 2013-10-02 21:13:27 <swulf--> even if they found DPR, unless DPR specifically revealed that information, the server still should have been a bitch to find as it was supposed to be behind tor
428 2013-10-02 21:13:58 <Diablo-D3> yes, but he had to pay the bills somehow
429 2013-10-02 21:14:05 <Diablo-D3> unless he paid for the server via bitcoins
430 2013-10-02 21:14:25 <swulf--> right. bitcoin would have been the smart move
431 2013-10-02 21:27:50 <gjs278> dah now they're down $10 on btc-e
432 2013-10-02 21:49:27 <dgriffi> is anyone working on the problem of why bitcoin-qt won't compile under Debian Wheezy without some crippling configure options?
433 2013-10-02 21:49:56 <sipa> dgriffi: have you filed a bug?
434 2013-10-02 21:50:51 <dgriffi> sipa: I figured someone would have seen it by now given that wheezy has been stable for a few months now
435 2013-10-02 21:51:27 <sipa> i don't know of any known issue
436 2013-10-02 21:51:30 <michagogo> cloud|dgriffi: what's wrong with it?
437 2013-10-02 21:51:42 <michagogo> cloud|I haven't seen anything about it anywhere.
438 2013-10-02 21:52:26 <dgriffi> michagogo|cloud: well, first off, it wants BerkleyDB 4.8++ which is no longer in the repos
439 2013-10-02 21:52:43 <michagogo> cloud|Ah
440 2013-10-02 21:52:45 <sipa> that's intentional
441 2013-10-02 21:53:00 <michagogo> cloud|Yeah, you can get that from oracle's website
442 2013-10-02 21:53:03 <dgriffi> michagogo|cloud: there's a configure-time option to use 5.1 anyway, but with the caveat that wallet you make won't be portable
443 2013-10-02 21:53:11 <michagogo> cloud|Link is in release-process.md
444 2013-10-02 21:53:50 <sipa> that's a long-known and hated problem with bdb
445 2013-10-02 21:53:58 <michagogo> cloud|dgriffi: also, if you were on Ubuntu, the bitcoin ppa has db4.8++
446 2013-10-02 21:54:07 <sipa> we intend to get rid of bdb wallets at some point
447 2013-10-02 21:54:22 <sipa> but for compatibility, there is no solution otherwise
448 2013-10-02 21:54:24 <dgriffi> I use straight debian because the ubuntu people went insane
449 2013-10-02 21:54:26 <michagogo> cloud|But yeah, check doc/release-process.md for the link to get db
450 2013-10-02 21:54:51 <sipa> or use 5.1
451 2013-10-02 21:54:56 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: personally, who cares about portability XD
452 2013-10-02 21:55:09 <Luke-Jr> unless you plan to move the wallet to Ubuntu/Windows later
453 2013-10-02 21:55:10 <sipa> if you only plan to use self-compiled versions, there is no problem
454 2013-10-02 21:55:13 <Luke-Jr> /Mac
455 2013-10-02 21:55:21 <michagogo> cloud|Right, just remember that if you ever restore from a backup or anything like that, you'll need a 5.1 build
456 2013-10-02 21:55:41 <dgriffi> so I ran configure with --with-incompatible-bdb and got a complaint that "Could not link against boost_thread-mt"
457 2013-10-02 21:56:09 <sipa> i've seen that problem before iirc
458 2013-10-02 21:56:59 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: BTW, you're aware you're building mostly untested and unsupported code, right?
459 2013-10-02 21:57:07 <sipa> note that this is git head, and the autotools buildsystem is very new
460 2013-10-02 21:57:08 <Luke-Jr> (please stay and help debug problems in any case, but be aware of this)
461 2013-10-02 21:57:12 <michagogo> cloud|dgriffi: what version of boost?
462 2013-10-02 21:57:20 <sipa> and has quirks that are being worked on
463 2013-10-02 21:57:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what timing :P
464 2013-10-02 21:57:45 <michagogo> cloud|I think doc/build-unix.md mentioned something like that?
465 2013-10-02 21:57:50 <sipa> but helping getting them fixed is of course welcome
466 2013-10-02 21:58:00 <sipa> !hi5 Luke-Jr
467 2013-10-02 21:58:01 <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
468 2013-10-02 21:58:07 <dgriffi> okay, that configure complaint is gone now after I installed the packages recommended by this page: http://wp.geeklab.com.ar/gl-en/2013/03/11/how-to-install-bitcoin-0-8-0-on-debian-wheezy-amd64/
469 2013-10-02 21:58:55 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: well, that makes sense.. is there an error/omission in our docs? :x
470 2013-10-02 21:59:04 <dgriffi> Luke-Jr: it seems so
471 2013-10-02 21:59:19 <dgriffi> I'll write up a bug report this evening
472 2013-10-02 21:59:48 <sipa> 0.8.0 (and up to 0.8.5) used qmake/makefiles as build systems
473 2013-10-02 22:00:00 <sipa> things are a bit different in git head
474 2013-10-02 22:00:14 <michagogo> cloud|dgriffi: did you try building v0.8.5?
475 2013-10-02 22:00:16 <sipa> and iirc the documentation isn't entirely updated yet
476 2013-10-02 22:00:28 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: thanks; it would be even more excellent if you did a Pull Request for the change itself
477 2013-10-02 22:01:09 <dgriffi> Luke-Jr: sure.  I've done that before
478 2013-10-02 23:36:02 <hydromet> huge news today on silk road being shut down
479 2013-10-02 23:37:02 <Wild_Bill> long overdue
480 2013-10-02 23:37:05 <hydromet> good riddance imho, and glad to see some of the US gov still functions despite the gov shutdown
481 2013-10-02 23:37:19 <Scrat> hydromet: unrelated news too, discuss it on #bitcoin (this is -dev)
482 2013-10-02 23:37:19 <Wild_Bill> everything bad on the internet in one site
483 2013-10-02 23:37:21 <gmaxwell> hydromet: Totally OT for this channel, please take it elsewhere.
484 2013-10-02 23:37:29 <Wild_Bill> k...sorry
485 2013-10-02 23:37:33 <Diablo-D3> its still a great thing, though
486 2013-10-02 23:38:02 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how many potential bitcoin devs were scared away because "bitcoin is used by criminals" or similar nonsense
487 2013-10-02 23:39:22 <hydromet> I agree and its not entirely OT even for bitcoin-dev which is very important to the foundation and success of bitcoin for legitimate purposes
488 2013-10-02 23:41:44 <Wild_Bill> any opinion on best source for current exchange rates, via an API
489 2013-10-02 23:43:20 <Wild_Bill> going to accept payment in BTC, customers are multi-national commerical/industrial
490 2013-10-02 23:52:29 <tgs3> gmaxwell: did you just kicked Diablo-D3? wtf?
491 2013-10-02 23:54:00 <gmaxwell> tgs3: not the first time, certantly not the last.
492 2013-10-02 23:55:31 <Neozonz> *certainly