1 2013-10-04 00:11:20 <crass> so after I get the server up, it creates the wallet.dat, however I still must create a new account / address, right?
  2 2013-10-04 00:29:17 <[\\\]> crass, no
  3 2013-10-04 00:29:37 <[\\\]> crass, by default it has a pool of 100 keys already made, just not necessarily presented to you
  4 2013-10-04 01:06:08 <andytoshi> hey all, just tried updating my git to latest from 0.8.1
  5 2013-10-04 01:06:12 <andytoshi> getting the message
  6 2013-10-04 01:06:13 <andytoshi> util.h:119:2: error: #error missing boost sleep implementation
  7 2013-10-04 01:07:32 <andytoshi> oh.. my makefile is custom, if the standard one has changed i will need to change mine
  8 2013-10-04 01:07:37 <andytoshi> maybe my fault, nvr mind
  9 2013-10-04 01:08:31 <andytoshi> woah, autotools
 10 2013-10-04 01:12:48 <crass> andytoshi: the newest version is 0.8.5
 11 2013-10-04 01:13:02 <andytoshi> crass: yeah, i see the new tags
 12 2013-10-04 01:13:27 <andytoshi> i have been busy for the last little while, got quite a bit behind
 13 2013-10-04 01:15:28 <gavinandresen> andytoshi: make clean in the old tree before doing the autotools thing if you use git HEAD
 14 2013-10-04 01:16:43 <andytoshi> ok thanks gavin
 15 2013-10-04 01:17:02 <andytoshi> right now i am updating my system, can't get ./configure to pass
 16 2013-10-04 01:17:05 <andytoshi> missing boost-chrono
 17 2013-10-04 02:02:38 <crass> [\\\]: so is a key equivalent to an address?
 18 2013-10-04 02:04:22 <Luke-Jr> crass: not exactly
 19 2013-10-04 02:05:02 <Luke-Jr> crass: an address is merely a pointer to a wallet, representing a specific key in the wallet; but it's a one-way conversion thing
 20 2013-10-04 02:05:30 <crass> it a hash of an addres and wallet id
 21 2013-10-04 02:06:08 <crass> is there somewhere I can read abut all this?
 22 2013-10-04 02:07:08 <andytoshi> crass: the wiki is probably your best bet
 23 2013-10-04 02:07:26 <andytoshi> i didn't understand how addresses work until i wrote my own address-generator
 24 2013-10-04 02:07:32 <andytoshi> that's not a hard project, i think it's worth doing
 25 2013-10-04 02:07:51 <andytoshi> e.g., mine takes six random words from a dictionary then hashes them a million times, then converts that to an address
 26 2013-10-04 02:08:04 <andytoshi> understand how addresses were encoded*
 27 2013-10-04 02:09:37 <crass> yeah, sounds like a good project, I could probably just read the docs and get it, just haven't seen the docs
 28 2013-10-04 02:10:09 <crass> looking at the wiki though, its probably on there somewhere
 29 2013-10-04 03:34:58 <Luke-Jr> thoughts on disallowing Sign Message on addresses that have received coins?
 30 2013-10-04 03:36:44 <warren> Luke-Jr: some people use it to prove they were the sender after the fact, yeah it sucks, but they have no other way.
 31 2013-10-04 03:37:07 <Luke-Jr> warren: that is a reason to prevent it, since it doesn't prove that
 32 2013-10-04 03:37:32 <Luke-Jr> I'm biased against the restriction since it will break Eligius, but I think logically it'd be a good move
 33 2013-10-04 03:39:19 <coingenuity> Luke-Jr: it would create problems in otc....
 34 2013-10-04 03:39:29 <coingenuity> Luke-Jr: people donate to people's registered addresses all the time
 35 2013-10-04 03:40:08 <coingenuity> ;;gpg info Luke-Jr
 36 2013-10-04 03:40:09 <gribble> User 'luke-jr', with keyid BD02942421F4889F, fingerprint E463A93F5F3117EEDE6C7316BD02942421F4889F, and bitcoin address 1927oaHjd6QKyFUWGRnx3sMWSmktrDdzto, registered on Sun Mar  6 16:14:00 2011. http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=luke-jr . Currently not authenticated.
 37 2013-10-04 03:40:25 <coingenuity> ;;balance 1927oaHjd6QKyFUWGRnx3sMWSmktrDdzto
 38 2013-10-04 03:40:26 <gribble> 0
 39 2013-10-04 03:40:29 <coingenuity> heh
 40 2013-10-04 03:40:47 <coingenuity> 
ACTION sends bitcoins just for a laugh

 41 2013-10-04 03:41:43 <Luke-Jr> coingenuity: well don't do that :/
 42 2013-10-04 03:42:03 <coingenuity> lmao
 43 2013-10-04 03:42:21 <Luke-Jr> hrm
 44 2013-10-04 03:42:32 <Luke-Jr> I guess that's a pretty practical problem, since we can't stop people from sending to it
 45 2013-10-04 03:43:22 <coingenuity> yeah, same way someone couldn't stop DPR from sending them a GPG email
 46 2013-10-04 03:43:49 <coingenuity> public keys are going to be public, in some way or another at one point :)
 47 2013-10-04 07:13:04 <dizko> i was thinking abotu this in terms of political donation
 48 2013-10-04 07:13:21 <dizko> how do you stop people from sending you bitcoins
 49 2013-10-04 07:14:33 <Graet> same way you stop ppl mailing you cash, never give out your address
 50 2013-10-04 07:16:18 <wumpus> dizko: as you should: give everyone their own receiving address, and only give it to people that you're prepared to accept donations from
 51 2013-10-04 07:17:28 <dizko> ok but since political donations have to be made public, its reasonably to assume some of those legitimate addresses could be discovered
 52 2013-10-04 07:17:41 <dizko> or maybe not a political candidate, but some other public figure or organization
 53 2013-10-04 07:18:03 <dizko> it seems to create a new type of dillema with respect to how accountable you can be for people sending you money you didnt ask for
 54 2013-10-04 07:18:46 <Graet> ppl can get live addresses from blockchain.info eg http://blockchain.info/largest-recent-transactions and send without even knowing who is at end
 55 2013-10-04 07:19:02 <Graet> there was a "dust spam" epidemic at one time
 56 2013-10-04 07:22:14 <wumpus> dizko: that sounds a bit paranoid, I'm pretty sure no one will send substantial amounts of money without verifying who the receiver is
 57 2013-10-04 07:22:29 <wumpus> for all they know they may be temporary addresses
 58 2013-10-04 07:22:40 <wumpus> for example on one of the wallet sites...
 59 2013-10-04 07:22:45 <dizko> unless its intended to frame someone / make them look bad
 60 2013-10-04 07:23:28 <wumpus> I'm sure in practice there are much better ways to make people look bad
 61 2013-10-04 07:25:39 <dizko> yea im not suggesting this is a high priority concern, its just something that had occured to me previously and i remembered again because of coingenuity joking about sending unsolicited funds to luke-jr
 62 2013-10-04 07:26:36 <wumpus> luke-jr is certainly capable of just ignoring inputs if he wants to :)
 63 2013-10-04 07:26:37 <dizko> speaking of spam, a friend of mine was telling me about his idea to make an email system that uses bitcoins to reduce spam
 64 2013-10-04 07:27:19 <wumpus> or sending a specific input to the coin eater :P
 65 2013-10-04 07:27:21 <warren> dizko: if you really care, I'm sure unsolicited political donations can be given someplace else to get rid of it.
 66 2013-10-04 07:27:30 <wumpus> output*
 67 2013-10-04 07:28:23 <EasyAt> dizko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash ?
 68 2013-10-04 07:28:44 <EasyAt> not bitcoins exactly
 69 2013-10-04 07:28:58 <dizko> right, i think that was his basis for the idea
 70 2013-10-04 07:29:28 <dizko> being that btc can be proof of work as well as adding the value of the coins
 71 2013-10-04 07:34:57 <EasyAt> I wonder how much hash power would be generated if everyone had to mine for 10 seconds per email
 72 2013-10-04 07:36:08 <dizko> heh...the imagine of spammers with mining rigs makes me giggle a bit
 73 2013-10-04 07:36:15 <dizko> s/imagine/image/
 74 2013-10-04 07:42:33 <sipa> dizko: hashcash is non-transferrable bitcoin :)
 75 2013-10-04 07:43:50 <EasyAt> with spammers running ASICs they could trivially fire off emails that would take a normal(non miner) ages to sign
 76 2013-10-04 07:44:39 <razorfishsl> with spammers running ASIC's they would be loosing money.....
 77 2013-10-04 07:46:47 <sipa> yup
 78 2013-10-04 07:48:37 <razorfishsl> Over a year ago I gave BFL some cash so I could replace my Artificial leg.., by the time they shipped my kit, I make the same as a mexican bean farmer
 79 2013-10-04 07:49:07 <wumpus> razorfishsl: you have many of those computational divide problems with 'hashcash' like approaches to e-mail spam, for example the divide between mobile/desktop, or even browser/native code
 80 2013-10-04 07:49:38 <razorfishsl> What has that to do with my new leg?
 81 2013-10-04 07:50:07 <wumpus> nothing
 82 2013-10-04 07:50:39 <sipa> i don't see how your leg is on topic here
 83 2013-10-04 07:50:54 <razorfishsl> Which is about the same as my interest in  Spam email & bitcoin.... I just wish people would keep the stupid ideas for Litecoin
 84 2013-10-04 07:51:50 <dizko> haha, my friend is very  smart but not very well versed in btc.  i dont think he realized that the fee rquired is probably too large for email
 85 2013-10-04 07:51:54 <razorfishsl> wow elgius is on a roll
 86 2013-10-04 07:52:02 <dizko> i suggested litecoin ;)
 87 2013-10-04 07:54:22 <michagogo> cloud|Re: disallowing signing from used addresses:
 88 2013-10-04 07:54:42 <razorfishsl> good idea
 89 2013-10-04 07:54:54 <razorfishsl> Especially with that Android feasco....
 90 2013-10-04 07:55:18 <razorfishsl> *fiasco
 91 2013-10-04 07:55:31 <michagogo> cloud|Actually, someone (don't remember who, can grep my logs when I'm back at me computer) sent me a millibitcoin or so to my gribble-registered address in order to timestamp it or something
 92 2013-10-04 07:56:28 <michagogo> cloud|But in general, it sounds like a bad idea to allow any user to invalidate anyone else's signing address
 93 2013-10-04 09:24:03 <diki> Why are the forums down?
 94 2013-10-04 09:26:27 <Graet> http://cryptolife.net/bitcointalk-hacked/  << diki
 95 2013-10-04 09:26:27 <sipa> they're hacked
 96 2013-10-04 09:27:02 <diki> oh shite
 97 2013-10-04 09:28:44 <diki> well 7500 rounds with sha256 doesn't seem like my password is compromised
 98 2013-10-04 09:29:25 <diki> unless of course SMF uses the password hash and user ID to authenticate in which case an identity can be assumed without my plaintext password
 99 2013-10-04 09:34:44 <wumpus> depends on for how long they've been compromised, if they had the site for a while they could have been intercepting the plaintext passwords; so if you use that password anywhere, do change it and consider it compromised
100 2013-10-04 09:35:03 <wumpus> anywhere else*
101 2013-10-04 09:36:00 <sipa> it had been comprimised for month, apparently
102 2013-10-04 09:37:15 <diki> Well, I have not used it on the forums probably for months before the breach
103 2013-10-04 09:37:31 <diki> I just had that remember me login option
104 2013-10-04 10:19:47 <Neozonz> Disc|http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-9338/product_id-16560/version_id-110955/year-2011/opxss-1/Simplemachines-SMF-1.1.8.html
105 2013-10-04 10:19:54 <Neozonz> Disc|^ bitcointalk exploit
106 2013-10-04 10:39:38 <nsh> Neozonz|Disc, 1.1.8 != 1.1.18
107 2013-10-04 13:48:42 <jouke> ;;seen snort
108 2013-10-04 13:48:43 <gribble> I have not seen snort.
109 2013-10-04 14:08:32 <jgarzik> mornin'
110 2013-10-04 14:08:42 <TD> hi there
111 2013-10-04 14:08:43 <jgarzik> rinkeldekinkel
112 2013-10-04 14:08:56 <jgarzik> I love Dutch onomatopoeia.
113 2013-10-04 14:14:44 <michagogo> jgarzik: What is that supposed to be an onomatopoeia for?
114 2013-10-04 14:22:10 <helo> a train?
115 2013-10-04 14:28:01 <sipa> it's the sound a door bell would make
116 2013-10-04 14:28:18 <sipa> or a phone
117 2013-10-04 14:32:04 <wumpus> rinkeldekinkel is more like the sound of shattering of glass objects IMO
118 2013-10-04 14:32:29 <wumpus> a phone or doorbell just 'rinkel's
119 2013-10-04 14:32:52 <kinlo> wumpus: not in vl
120 2013-10-04 14:33:11 <kinlo> shattering of glass objects would be more klingelingeling :)
121 2013-10-04 14:33:19 <wumpus> hahahah okay
122 2013-10-04 14:41:29 <jgarzik> rinkeldekinkel is the sound made by a vuilniswagen, isn't that obvious?
123 2013-10-04 14:42:04 <jgarzik> (garbage truck)
124 2013-10-04 14:42:20 <jgarzik> Maybe that's the sound of garbage getting compacted?
125 2013-10-04 14:46:04 <helo> what does the fox say?
126 2013-10-04 14:46:51 <helo> (your kids will like ^that video/song)
127 2013-10-04 14:47:44 <jgarzik> wumpus wins the prize
128 2013-10-04 14:48:07 <jgarzik> helo: wife already found it.  Amusingly, an Amsterdam cafe was playing that while I was eating, this past weekend.
129 2013-10-04 14:48:28 <helo> heh
130 2013-10-04 14:48:32 <michagogo> jgarzik: prize?
131 2013-10-04 14:49:02 <jgarzik> michagogo: 1 tnBTC
132 2013-10-04 14:49:11 <gribble> Error: "googlt" is not a valid command.
133 2013-10-04 14:49:11 <michagogo> ;;googlt tnBTC
134 2013-10-04 14:49:14 <gribble> BusIndia.com™ Online Bus Ticket Booking on Mobile: <http://m.busindia.com/>; New crypto-currency Beertokens and it's Exchange - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493.0;wap2>; My faggot sister - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79jBjicP6Qc>
135 2013-10-04 14:49:14 <michagogo> ;;google tnBTC
136 2013-10-04 14:49:20 <gribble> List of common currency abbreviations - bitcoin-otc wiki: <http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/List_of_common_currency_abbreviations>; New crypto-currency Beertokens and it's Exchange - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493.0;wap2>; here - BitcoinStats: <http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/04/03>
137 2013-10-04 14:49:20 <michagogo> ;;google tnBTC bitcoin
138 2013-10-04 14:49:36 <michagogo> [17:45:53] <helo> what does the fox say?
139 2013-10-04 14:49:36 <michagogo> [17:46:40] <helo> (your kids will like ^that video/song)
140 2013-10-04 14:49:36 <michagogo> ...that's a very weird song.
141 2013-10-04 14:49:45 <michagogo> Oh, ofc
142 2013-10-04 14:54:40 <jgarzik> michagogo: testnet bitcoins
143 2013-10-04 14:54:50 <michagogo> yeah, I got that
144 2013-10-04 14:55:08 <michagogo> I was thinking it had something to do with Luke's number system
145 2013-10-04 15:15:30 <jgarzik> Schneier details NSA Tor attack methods: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/04/tor-attacks-nsa-users-online-anonymity
146 2013-10-04 15:18:00 <nsh> quite educational. still reading
147 2013-10-04 15:18:05 <jgarzik> Ahhh, something that was non-obvious until now:  Tor browser bundle has been shipping older Firefoxes, which [by definition] do not include the latest bug fixes.
148 2013-10-04 15:19:04 <jgarzik> I knew NSA was exploited older Firefoxes, but did not know that the Tor browser bundle was inhibiting the distribution of bugfixed Firefoxes
149 2013-10-04 15:19:11 <nsh> jgarzik, that became clear to me after the tor exploit on freedom hosting onion sites
150 2013-10-04 15:19:37 <nsh> well, it's more that TBB release cycle is longer than firefox's and probably some other stability issues
151 2013-10-04 15:19:51 <nsh> the other major problem is a lot of people who are privacy/anonymity-conscious use TBB from live-CDs
152 2013-10-04 15:20:01 <nsh> or other live media, which are basically impossible to update
153 2013-10-04 15:20:18 <TD> jgarzik: ah that must be the story applebaum was talking about
154 2013-10-04 15:20:30 <nsh> aye
155 2013-10-04 15:20:52 <nsh> you can see schneier's input to this article and i'm very grateful for it
156 2013-10-04 15:21:09 <nsh> there is a serious attempt to describe the details of the attacks
157 2013-10-04 15:21:23 <nsh> at least in overview
158 2013-10-04 15:21:36 <nsh> i doubt there exists a more technically dense guardian article
159 2013-10-04 15:22:31 <TD> "EgotisticalGiraffe" ?
160 2013-10-04 15:22:36 <TD> where do they get these names?
161 2013-10-04 15:22:58 <nsh> Special Agent Mark V Cheney
162 2013-10-04 15:27:11 <jgarzik> NSA has fast computer to auto-MITM: not news
163 2013-10-04 15:27:17 <jgarzik> *computers
164 2013-10-04 15:27:19 <TD> it's news to me
165 2013-10-04 15:27:27 <TD> how does this race condition work, exactly? racing DNS?
166 2013-10-04 15:28:05 <TD> if they "just" injected packets they'd collide with the real servers SYNACK. i am struggling to think of a case except for DNS where merely being faster than another server would allow for a silent MITM
167 2013-10-04 15:29:46 <jgarzik> TD, The NSA has had direct access to all major Internet hubs in the US, and many cables and fun overseas, since at least 2001, if not mid 1990's.  They have already had the physical, budgetry and technical ability to MITM at whatever level current technology permits.  MITM races in general become easier if you impersonating a Tor server with 140ms RTT with a server a couple hops away from the target.
168 2013-10-04 15:30:10 <jgarzik> These details may be new, but the possibility has existed for decades
169 2013-10-04 15:30:49 <jgarzik> Just have to look at current technology levels and extrapolate.  It doesn't even take a big budget to do this.  Many millions, but not necessarily even billions.
170 2013-10-04 15:30:56 <kjj> TOR should add a mode that does an entropy calculation before starting work on a packet.  not encrypted, rejected
171 2013-10-04 15:31:20 <jgarzik> Tor should regularize packet size and timing, pronto.
172 2013-10-04 15:31:43 <jgarzik> And Great Minds should figure out a decentralized way to pay people to relay (== some model to support network health)
173 2013-10-04 15:31:49 <kjj> that too.  doesn't it generate bogus flows already?
174 2013-10-04 15:31:59 <jgarzik> it does a bit
175 2013-10-04 15:32:18 <jgarzik> but over time it should be quite easy to figure out gross protocol fingerprint
176 2013-10-04 15:32:45 <jgarzik> certain events happen on the bitcoin network simultaneously worldwide, making it behave unlike HTTP or bittorrent
177 2013-10-04 15:33:29 <kjj> I guess the best solution is to stop bridging to the regular internet
178 2013-10-04 15:33:41 <jgarzik> The safest masking is also the most expensive:  send at max bandwidth, all the time.
179 2013-10-04 15:34:00 <kjj> no more exit nodes, no more exit node monitoring
180 2013-10-04 15:34:06 <arioBarzan> when bitcointalk.org will be back?
181 2013-10-04 15:34:15 <jgarzik> arioBarzan, days, at least
182 2013-10-04 15:34:43 <jgarzik> kjj, it is impossible to eliminate bridging
183 2013-10-04 15:34:48 <kjj> the email was light on details.  was it serious?
184 2013-10-04 15:34:53 <jgarzik> kjj, it's a network for data transit
185 2013-10-04 15:35:11 <TD> lol
186 2013-10-04 15:35:18 <TD> the "terrorist with tor client installed" graphic is hilarious
187 2013-10-04 15:35:24 <kjj> jgarzik: it also allows internal termination, which so far appears to be vastly safer
188 2013-10-04 15:35:36 <TD> bah
189 2013-10-04 15:35:42 <TD> this presentation is from 6 years ago
190 2013-10-04 15:35:50 <TD> it's almost certainly obsolete
191 2013-10-04 15:36:16 <jgarzik> sadly I agree with cryptome.org tweets:  Glenn Greenwald and Bruce Schneier are writing meta-pieces, which are light on details.  Some on purpose, as they themselves admit not wanting to expose specific methods [more than they already have].
192 2013-10-04 15:36:33 <jgarzik> or publish outdated info
193 2013-10-04 15:37:34 <jgarzik> It does not take a genius to conclude that it is already easy to "degrade/deny/disrupt Tor access"
194 2013-10-04 15:43:32 <TD> yeah this round of Tor disclosures is almost worthless
195 2013-10-04 15:43:49 <TD> i'm wondering if there's gonna be a split between snowden and the guardian soon, as there was with wikileaks
196 2013-10-04 15:48:58 <jgarzik> TD, I heard Snowden was out of money, for whatever that means
197 2013-10-04 15:49:07 <jgarzik> might not be in a strong position to split from anything
198 2013-10-04 15:49:07 <TD> where did  you read that?
199 2013-10-04 15:49:15 <TD> he had a bunch of job offers the moment he left the airport
200 2013-10-04 15:49:29 <jgarzik> 
ACTION handwaves somewhere on the web or twitter, while in Amsterdam

201 2013-10-04 15:49:48 <jgarzik> so < 7 days ago
202 2013-10-04 15:52:34 <TD> http://nos.nl/artikel/558286-hoe-belgacom-werd-gekraakt.html
203 2013-10-04 15:52:34 <TD> super
204 2013-10-04 15:52:54 <TD> In mid-September announced that Belgacom has been hacked, the company wants to believe that the hackers were particularly interested in communication with the Middle East. But that was a smokescreen, now appears: the real goal was to be able to listen to international organizations in Brussels via BICS.
205 2013-10-04 15:53:01 <TD> also - espionage stopped on british bank holidays
206 2013-10-04 15:53:14 <TD> UK is even worse than the USA sometimes :(
207 2013-10-04 16:02:28 <TD> jgarzik: i wonder if he's having trouble opening a bank account
208 2013-10-04 16:02:52 <TD> jgarzik: i would assume any bank would fear retaliation if they did that. but i'm sure he can find an arrangement. he has friends in russia, people who want to employ him. worst case scenario he can engage in public fund raising.
209 2013-10-04 16:03:46 <TD> anyway. home time.
210 2013-10-04 16:48:03 <nsh> <TD> this presentation is from 6 years ago
211 2013-10-04 16:48:19 <nsh> the first version was, it's been updated as recently as last july, maybe since
212 2013-10-04 16:48:34 <nsh> (they mention things that didn't exist until recently)
213 2013-10-04 17:19:52 <gmaxwell> 08:22 < TD> where do they get these names?
214 2013-10-04 17:20:26 <gmaxwell> codenames for top secret things are pulled out of some generic codename book in order to make them unrelated to the projects.
215 2013-10-04 17:30:44 <jgarzik> "GCHQ runs Tor nodes under NEWTONS CRADLE (how many?)"
216 2013-10-04 17:31:07 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, not always.  Several of these programs follow similar themes, e.g. civil war battles
217 2013-10-04 17:32:40 <jgarzik> http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document
218 2013-10-04 17:34:54 <jgarzik> Analytics: Dumb Users (EPICFAIL).  Looks for Tor users when they are not using Tor.
219 2013-10-04 17:36:42 <jgarzik> really, we need a decentralized torservers.net, though
220 2013-10-04 17:36:56 <jgarzik> 
ACTION has donated bitcoins to torservers.net, which gets a mention

221 2013-10-04 17:42:22 <jgarzik> In addition to text notes criticizing the government, people have sent thousands of dollars worth of BTC to this address, where silkroad seized coins are held:
222 2013-10-04 17:42:23 <jgarzik> https://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX
223 2013-10-04 17:42:56 <jgarzik> Anybody willing to run a taint check?
224 2013-10-04 17:43:09 <jgarzik> Are these coins from mybitcoin, bitcoinica, allinvain, or another famous theft?
225 2013-10-04 17:43:32 <jgarzik> "Launder money through the FBI" is certainly a new tactic.
226 2013-10-04 17:45:00 <Ry4an> jgarzik: I think everything above $100 was part of the govenments initial sweep of the wallets, which the court order says is continuous.
227 2013-10-04 17:45:31 <jgarzik> ah
228 2013-10-04 17:45:53 <jgarzik> I saw recent, large BTC transactions that seemed to appear after the initial arrest sweep.
229 2013-10-04 17:50:46 <Ry4an> yeah, I think after the first humorous 0.1337 everything has been low value
230 2013-10-04 19:18:10 <midnightmagic> not much of a laundry. send it to them, lose it forever.
231 2013-10-04 19:18:13 <TD> hello
232 2013-10-04 21:26:54 <TD> jgarzik: you there?
233 2013-10-04 21:29:15 <TD> i'm trying out medium.com, it's sort of a blog crossed with a general article library. i wrote an article on how to create distributed p2p communities that nevertheless have an enforced set of shared values
234 2013-10-04 21:29:29 <TD> it has a collaborate feature that lets people comment on a draft
235 2013-10-04 21:29:42 <TD> so i figured maybe you could review it :)
236 2013-10-04 21:29:48 <TD> (or anyone else who is interested)
237 2013-10-04 21:36:27 <TD> petertodd: re: your comment on reddit. you have to be careful with those presentations. some of them are dated 2007, that's too long ago to conclude much
238 2013-10-04 21:53:01 <crass> what is the full block chain size at these days?
239 2013-10-04 21:55:43 <pankkake> 13G
240 2013-10-04 22:43:42 <sipa> jgarzik: 'rinkelen' is the verb referring to making the sound of a ringing phone
241 2013-10-04 22:54:58 <petertodd> TD: the one I linked is from 2012, not 2007. Dunno about the other one. Anyway I made clear that the NSA very much could spend the money to subvert Tor if they wanted too by shear force-of-will.
242 2013-10-04 23:06:08 <MC1984> Im surprised they cant do global timing analysis with the setup theyve got
243 2013-10-04 23:06:20 <MC1984> i read tor isnt strong againt an insane attack like that
244 2013-10-04 23:07:22 <petertodd> Timing analysis is harder than you'd think because Tor nodes tend to run close enough to capacity that watching individual connections is hard. OTOH if you are running a hidden service, uptime timing analysis is scary...
245 2013-10-04 23:09:54 <crass> any graphs out there showing the blockchain growth over time?
246 2013-10-04 23:10:15 <petertodd> http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
247 2013-10-04 23:13:02 <MC1984> they mentioned something about that
248 2013-10-04 23:13:47 <crass> petertodd: well, it looks linear, which is suspicious, I'd expect exponential
249 2013-10-04 23:14:18 <crass> is that expected to level of or go logarithmic after the last bitcoin is mined?
250 2013-10-04 23:14:43 <petertodd> crass: the # of transactions on the blockchain has very little to do with the # of bitcoin economic transactions that actually happen
251 2013-10-04 23:15:58 <crass> petertodd: ok, so it sounds like it should level off at the end of mining then?
252 2013-10-04 23:16:33 <MC1984> why doesnt that shart look better since satoshi dice died
253 2013-10-04 23:16:46 <petertodd> crass: do you realize there is a 1MB maximum blocksize?
254 2013-10-04 23:17:22 <crass> petertodd: I don't know a whole lot about bitcoin in general, so no
255 2013-10-04 23:17:31 <petertodd> MC1984: because satoshidice spawned a bunch of competitors? who knows
256 2013-10-04 23:17:43 <crass> and there are a maximum number of blocks?
257 2013-10-04 23:17:54 <petertodd> crass: yeah, 1MB maximum, or 57GiB/year, or ~3KiB/second (from memory)
258 2013-10-04 23:18:01 <petertodd> crass: 1 block every 10 minutes on average
259 2013-10-04 23:18:18 <MC1984> theyre off chain though right
260 2013-10-04 23:18:19 <crass> are you talking traffic?
261 2013-10-04 23:18:23 <MC1984> just dice claims to be
262 2013-10-04 23:18:31 <petertodd> crass: blockchain data traffic yes
263 2013-10-04 23:18:49 <crass> otherwise that seems to conflict with the real world.  The current chain data is 13G
264 2013-10-04 23:19:01 <crass> naw, I'm just talking about what is stored
265 2013-10-04 23:19:02 <petertodd> crass: point is, transaction space is subject to supply and demand, and we've got a fixed supply so growth simply can't be exponential
266 2013-10-04 23:19:25 <petertodd> crass: yes, I said maximum, right now miners tend to mine blocks no larger than 250KiB
267 2013-10-04 23:19:26 <crass> sure it can, for a time
268 2013-10-04 23:19:41 <crass> ahh, ok
269 2013-10-04 23:20:08 <crass> a fixed supply with an exponentially insreasing transaction rate
270 2013-10-04 23:20:22 <petertodd> crass: no, a fixed supply *of transactions*
271 2013-10-04 23:20:41 <petertodd> crass: it's a market place, with a bidding system for blockchain space
272 2013-10-04 23:21:45 <crass> why is there a fixed suppy of transactions?
273 2013-10-04 23:22:09 <crass> I would think that number of transactions would be related to total hashing power
274 2013-10-04 23:22:15 <petertodd> because Bitcoin has O(n^2) scaling basically
275 2013-10-04 23:22:29 <petertodd> hashing has nothing to do with the computer power/storage/bandwidth required to process transactions
276 2013-10-04 23:22:35 <crass> cause of the network effect?
277 2013-10-04 23:23:04 <crass> ok, you can see how much I know :)
278 2013-10-04 23:23:24 <petertodd> network effect has nothing to do with it...
279 2013-10-04 23:23:30 <petertodd> yeah, you don't know much :)
280 2013-10-04 23:23:38 <petertodd> have you read the satoshi paper?
281 2013-10-04 23:24:11 <MC1984> has the locks bug been triggered again yet?
282 2013-10-04 23:24:28 <petertodd> yes, 0.7 is now forked (sort of
283 2013-10-04 23:24:29 <petertodd> )
284 2013-10-04 23:24:33 <crass> nope, probably won't for a while, I'm not looking to be an academic on it, just some working knowledge
285 2013-10-04 23:24:47 <MC1984> ooo what block did it happen do you know
286 2013-10-04 23:25:16 <petertodd> crass: read this bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf‎ it's not that hard to understand, and you're asking questions that are answered by it (and maybe some thinking)
287 2013-10-04 23:25:23 <crass> the network effect was related to the O(n^2) comment, since traffic increases O(n^2) in a broadcast network
288 2013-10-04 23:25:26 <petertodd> MC1984: it says in BIP50
289 2013-10-04 23:25:33 <petertodd> crass: correct
290 2013-10-04 23:25:58 <MC1984> k
291 2013-10-04 23:26:50 <crass> hmm, url no existe
292 2013-10-04 23:28:28 <petertodd> http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf <- that should exist
293 2013-10-04 23:28:35 <crass> weird, it does
294 2013-10-04 23:29:04 <petertodd> good, now read it :)
295 2013-10-04 23:48:00 <MC1984> 16 august the second locks bug was
296 2013-10-04 23:48:07 <MC1984> that took a while
297 2013-10-04 23:49:45 <MC1984> ah yes it was eligius thought it might be