1 2013-11-12 00:03:32 <ahmedbodi> Is there any way to speed up a tx
  2 2013-11-12 00:03:57 <ahmedbodi> Mine is estimated at 20 hours to confirm
  3 2013-11-12 00:05:08 <deego> ahmedbodi: how do you know that?
  4 2013-11-12 00:06:29 <ahmedbodi> Blockchain.inf
  5 2013-11-12 00:06:33 <ahmedbodi> Info
  6 2013-11-12 00:10:09 <ahmedbodi> Anyone? Luke-jr ?
  7 2013-11-12 00:10:30 <sipa> ahmedbodi: pay a miner to prioritize it
  8 2013-11-12 00:11:06 <ahmedbodi> Aha im skint, anyone here willing to do it?
  9 2013-11-12 00:12:36 <midnightmagic> ahmedbodi: I would if I could inject it into p2pool's transaction pool..
 10 2013-11-12 00:12:41 <midnightmagic> sadly..
 11 2013-11-12 00:12:43 <midnightmagic> 
ACTION shrugs.

 12 2013-11-12 00:12:58 <sipa> midnightmagic: you'd still need to mine a block yourself
 13 2013-11-12 00:13:15 <sipa> and there is an old patch that allows that, afaik
 14 2013-11-12 00:13:17 <ahmedbodi> Hmm, its for a local bitoins tx too
 15 2013-11-12 00:13:46 <midnightmagic> sipa: If I could prove my willingness to mine it by attaching it to a p2pool share, and otherws would also include, thereby cooperatively sharing a p2pool transaction pool, then p2pool miners could sell their services.
 16 2013-11-12 00:14:19 <midnightmagic> sipa: Elsewise buddy would have to wait about as long as a free tx anyway to make it in, I just don't have <1d hashrate anymore :(
 17 2013-11-12 00:14:48 <midnightmagic> sipa: A patch to p2pool?  or a patch it stuff it into my mempool?
 18 2013-11-12 00:21:17 <ahmedbodi> Sipa is there no way for me to push the tx to a mining pools client
 19 2013-11-12 00:23:00 <midnightmagic> ahmedbodi: You have to find one willing to do it for you. #eligius might be willing if you pay them a small fee.
 20 2013-11-12 00:25:08 <ahmedbodi> Ty
 21 2013-11-12 00:25:40 <sipa> ahmedbodi: the network and miners likely already know about your transaction
 22 2013-11-12 00:25:40 <sipa> you'll need some deal for them to prioritize it
 23 2013-11-12 00:35:51 <super3> sipa, do you know if anyone actually uses /contrib/wallettools?
 24 2013-11-12 00:36:40 <ahmedbodi> Yes they do
 25 2013-11-12 00:36:51 <ahmedbodi> Ive used the python wall
 26 2013-11-12 00:36:59 <ahmedbodi> Wallet thing
 27 2013-11-12 00:38:26 <super3> ahmedbodi, im specifically talking about walletchangepass.py and walletunlock.py in /contrib/wallettools
 28 2013-11-12 00:38:58 <super3> ahmedbodi, have you used those two scripts?
 29 2013-11-12 00:39:38 <ahmedbodi> Unlock.py i hqve
 30 2013-11-12 00:40:36 <super3> ahmedbodi, intresting
 31 2013-11-12 00:41:31 <super3> ahmedbodi, you know that /contrib/bitrpc.py walletpassphrase [pass] does the exact same thing?
 32 2013-11-12 00:42:04 <super3> ahmedbodi, its actually the same exact code that is in walletunlock.py
 33 2013-11-12 00:45:02 <ahmedbodi> Ahhh didnt notice
 34 2013-11-12 02:14:54 <super3> ahmedbodi, still there?
 35 2013-11-12 02:31:20 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #449: FAILURE in 41 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/449/
 36 2013-11-12 02:31:34 <BlueMatt> ok, wtf
 37 2013-11-12 02:35:22 <KaosMcRage> So, dealing with the LevelDB corruption on 0.8.x Mac client issue… I haven't wanted to bring this up because it feels random and evidence is anecdotal at best, but I've noticed whether or not the client determines my block database is corrupt varies based on my network location (i.e. home vs. work).
 38 2013-11-12 02:35:33 <KaosMcRage> I fired up the client at home and everything was fine. Went to work the next morning, tried 3-4 times throughout the day and it was corrupt every time. Bring it home for the night and it fires up first try without detecting corruption. Does that make any sense? Would IP address or other network configuration impact whether or not it thinks the DB is corrupt?
 39 2013-11-12 02:36:38 <KaosMcRage> Note: it's not as simple as "doesn't work at the office but works at home" because the locations may flip-flop randomly (as in, it works fine at the office but detects corruption at home).
 40 2013-11-12 02:39:57 <danneu> KaosMcRage: people've been talking about this lately in this channel
 41 2013-11-12 02:40:13 <danneu> leveldb blockchain corruption in general
 42 2013-11-12 02:40:13 <KaosMcRage> danneu: about the network location making a difference?
 43 2013-11-12 02:40:17 <KaosMcRage> oh
 44 2013-11-12 02:40:24 <danneu> oh
 45 2013-11-12 02:40:30 <KaosMcRage> Yeah, I've been following the github issue (2770).
 46 2013-11-12 02:40:33 <danneu> you were referring to *the* issue
 47 2013-11-12 02:41:31 <KaosMcRage> I can't imagine the network thing matters, just thought I'd come here and bring it up.
 48 2013-11-12 02:41:44 <danneu> it could if the code is hilarious
 49 2013-11-12 02:41:48 <danneu> ;)
 50 2013-11-12 02:41:57 <KaosMcRage> It sure *feels* like it does, but so far I haven't been able to reproduce it reliably so…
 51 2013-11-12 02:42:06 <KaosMcRage> Yes, I suppose that's true. :)
 52 2013-11-12 02:45:45 <danneu> try { (http.get("gavinsblog.com/valid?=" + top_block).status == 200) ? true : throw("Corrupt") } catch { throw("Corrupt") }
 53 2013-11-12 02:46:28 <danneu> slightly adapted horror story from my last job
 54 2013-11-12 02:47:05 <KaosMcRage> I hope that isn't happening here. :)
 55 2013-11-12 03:40:05 <semarjt> hey guys, so i was trying out armory, and did not know you were unable to import bitcoin-qt wallet files, i did try it though, and after i gave up on armory and reloaded bitcoin-qt i got 'wallet.dat corrupt salvage failed'
 56 2013-11-12 03:40:38 <semarjt> i backed up from a previous version, and it appears to not have all the coins, even though i do see my most recent, as well as my oldest transactions
 57 2013-11-12 03:41:11 <semarjt> is it possible to recover the corrupt wallet?
 58 2013-11-12 03:41:23 <semarjt> thanks in advance
 59 2013-11-12 04:46:37 <ryan-c> is there some technical reason a transaction can't have multiple outputs to the same address?
 60 2013-11-12 04:47:03 <ryan-c> createrawtransaction barfs on that, is it just a anti-self-foot-shooting thing?
 61 2013-11-12 04:48:49 <lianj> i guess its only a createrawtransaction thing
 62 2013-11-12 04:50:44 <gmaxwell> ryan-c: our interfaces for that stuff take hashes/arrays so they're unique mappings. In general we don't want to encourage inefficient transaction patterns in any case.
 63 2013-11-12 04:50:53 <gmaxwell> It can, but it really probably shouldn't.
 64 2013-11-12 05:58:18 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: Thanks.
 65 2013-11-12 06:42:40 <pierce> so, doing some forensics trying to recover a private key from a damaged wallet file
 66 2013-11-12 06:42:53 <pierce> trying to figure out how private keys are stored typically
 67 2013-11-12 06:43:34 <pierce> as a test, I took a working wallet.dat, did a dumpprivkey, converted from base58 to hex, and it seems like that data is nowhere in the wallet.dat file
 68 2013-11-12 06:44:16 <pierce> anyone have any clues as to how the private keys get stored in the wallet.dat?  like are they obfuscated at all?
 69 2013-11-12 08:29:02 <mantas> hello
 70 2013-11-12 08:47:06 <swulf--> deriving y from a compressed pubkey requires a sqrt operation, right?
 71 2013-11-12 08:47:41 <bitnumus> are there any major differences between 0.8.2 and 0.8.5 ? how comes master is still on 0.8.2 ?   >  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
 72 2013-11-12 08:49:18 <wumpus> bitnumus: master is 0.9
 73 2013-11-12 08:49:43 <bitnumus> wait, what am i seeing then
 74 2013-11-12 08:49:55 <bitnumus> i just tried compiling on raspberry pi for a day
 75 2013-11-12 08:49:59 <bitnumus> and its 0.8.2 lol
 76 2013-11-12 08:52:02 <wumpus> maybe the version isn't bumped yet, that's usually done before release
 77 2013-11-12 08:53:06 <wumpus> swulf--: AFAIK yes
 78 2013-11-12 08:54:20 <wumpus> swulf--: you compute Y^2 then need to take the sqrt to get Y or -Y
 79 2013-11-12 08:54:34 <swulf--> right
 80 2013-11-12 08:54:43 <swulf--> so, it looks to me like bitcoin-js doesn't have mod_sqrt ?
 81 2013-11-12 08:55:04 <swulf--> or any other way to "decompress" pubkeys?
 82 2013-11-12 08:55:30 <swulf--> unless modpow to -2 works?
 83 2013-11-12 08:58:00 <wumpus> swulf--: not sure how it's implemented in bitcoin-js
 84 2013-11-12 08:58:57 <swulf--> ok
 85 2013-11-12 08:59:14 <bitnumus> wumpus, where has configure and makefiles gone in 0.8.5 ?
 86 2013-11-12 08:59:49 <wumpus> bitnumus: 0.8.x still has the old makefiles, 0.9 (master) switched to autoconf/automake
 87 2013-11-12 09:00:05 <wumpus> bitnumus: please follow the build instructions in doc/build-unix.md
 88 2013-11-12 09:00:56 <bitnumus> hmm, yes i see that, however https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/  again is totally different
 89 2013-11-12 09:01:02 <bitnumus> it has  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/ etc
 90 2013-11-12 09:01:11 <bitnumus> autogen.sh  **
 91 2013-11-12 09:01:33 <bitnumus> very weird, its ticked as 'master' but its 0.9.2
 92 2013-11-12 09:01:36 <bitnumus> 0.8.2 **
 93 2013-11-12 09:02:04 <wumpus> as I said, probably the version number hasn't been bumped yet, but master IS what is going to be 0.9
 94 2013-11-12 09:02:17 <bitnumus> ahhh ok
 95 2013-11-12 09:02:31 <bitnumus> well thats what i've been running then, and it didn't like the DB
 96 2013-11-12 09:02:32 <wumpus> [09:54:51] <wumpus> maybe the version isn't bumped yet, that's usually done before release
 97 2013-11-12 09:02:38 <bitnumus> copied chain from 0.8.5 and it kept complaining
 98 2013-11-12 09:04:44 <wumpus> huh copying a chain from 0.8 should work (given that it's not corrupted); otherwise try -reindex
 99 2013-11-12 09:05:01 <wumpus> what error message do you get?
100 2013-11-12 09:18:40 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #450: FIXED in 44 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/450/
101 2013-11-12 09:18:40 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
102 2013-11-12 10:07:48 <sipa> wumpus: internally the version number is bumped
103 2013-11-12 10:08:00 <sipa> but the shown version is using git describe
104 2013-11-12 10:08:23 <sipa> and as master branched off 0.8.2, that is what you see
105 2013-11-12 10:11:00 <Alina-malina> Hello all! can i say that bitcoin bellongs to a DHT network type?
106 2013-11-12 10:11:10 <Luke-Jr> no
107 2013-11-12 10:11:55 <Luke-Jr> over here, we make fun of people who think DHT has any use in Bitcoin
108 2013-11-12 10:12:17 <Luke-Jr> <.<
109 2013-11-12 10:12:50 <Alina-malina> I am new in bitcoin programming, i try to understand what is going on there, there is no need to make fun on people who start learning
110 2013-11-12 10:13:11 <Luke-Jr> I didn't mean you specifically.
111 2013-11-12 10:16:55 <sipa> Alina-malina: bitcoin is not a DHT but a gossip network: nodes tell eachother about new information they have, until it propagates through the network... so eventually everyone hears everything
112 2013-11-12 10:48:00 <Alina-malina> sipa, what is the best source-code link, i find many stuff in github, but they have different authors, i want the one that is currently running, also i am interested in which file i can see the node talking to each other part, i am interested in that part very much
113 2013-11-12 10:53:37 <wumpus> Alina-malina: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/net.cpp
114 2013-11-12 10:54:18 <Alina-malina> thanks alot! I will go to read the file, i hope i can find and understand what i am looking for, thanks again!
115 2013-11-12 11:07:46 <t7> 1.6k lines :|
116 2013-11-12 12:20:55 <hno> gavinandresen, Ok. Starting get ready for debugging my block propagation issue. Have been reading code and think I understand how the propagaion works mostly, and nothing obvious sticks out.
117 2013-11-12 12:21:52 <hno> kind of feels like if pushed blocks are sometimes ignored silently on the receiving side, but not sure yet.
118 2013-11-12 12:22:20 <sipa> blocks that are received are processed by ProcessBlock
119 2013-11-12 12:23:13 <sipa> iirc, always
120 2013-11-12 12:23:25 <sipa> except when you're reindexing/importing blocks
121 2013-11-12 12:26:04 <hno> sipa, The nodes are happily running for days now. Quite randomly any one of them delays a new block for many minutes, random which one. And they all have persistent connections open between each other. Nothing is sitting waiting in network sockets.
122 2013-11-12 12:26:53 <hno> 3 nodes in total, all cross-connected with addnode. The addnode connections are verified alive.
123 2013-11-12 12:26:54 <sipa> are they only connected to eachother, or also to the outside world?
124 2013-11-12 12:27:03 <hno> also to outside world.
125 2013-11-12 12:27:45 <sipa> if the first node that announces a new block is an outside one, but doesn't reply with a block when asked for it, it takes a timeout before we ask another node
126 2013-11-12 12:27:49 <sipa> and that may be minutes
127 2013-11-12 12:27:58 <hno> it's full nodes accepting incoming connections and making (some) outgoing connections.
128 2013-11-12 12:28:09 <sipa> your nodes don't matter in that case
129 2013-11-12 12:28:22 <hno> Ok, that may explain it.
130 2013-11-12 12:28:33 <sipa> i wasn't aware of this problem, though
131 2013-11-12 12:28:38 <sipa> but i can see that it's possible
132 2013-11-12 12:28:52 <hno> Good, gives me something concrete to look for.
133 2013-11-12 12:29:53 <hno> but your explanation seems likely.
134 2013-11-12 12:31:36 <hno> and on the good side very manageable.
135 2013-11-12 13:56:43 <Sp0tter> i'm running v0.8.5 but can't seem to update past block 265081.. whats the first step to find out whats wrong?  Using bitcoind, no gui.  Says  errors: "Warning: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
136 2013-11-12 14:02:40 <sipa> Sp0tter: sounds like a corrupted database
137 2013-11-12 14:02:42 <sipa> ;;blocks
138 2013-11-12 14:02:43 <gribble> 269229
139 2013-11-12 14:11:28 <kezu> this may be wrong place to ask but is bitcoin version 0.3.24-beta the correct bitcoind version for ubuntu?
140 2013-11-12 14:11:39 <kezu> may be the*^
141 2013-11-12 14:12:58 <sipa> kezu: no, that's ancient, buggy, slow, and not compatible with the current network anymore (unless you make some tweaks)
142 2013-11-12 14:13:14 <sipa> latest version is 0.8.5
143 2013-11-12 14:13:44 <kezu> ok so sudo apt-get install for ubuntu is prob no longer a viable option for installation?
144 2013-11-12 14:13:51 <sipa> no, use the PPA
145 2013-11-12 14:14:02 <kezu> which one sorry first time user
146 2013-11-12 14:14:10 <sipa> well, it is the right command, but there is no updated version in ubuntu's manin repositories
147 2013-11-12 14:14:21 <kezu> ah i see
148 2013-11-12 14:14:46 <sipa> see http://bitcoin.org/en/download
149 2013-11-12 14:14:51 <sipa> there's a link to the PPA
150 2013-11-12 14:15:09 <kezu> thank you. should I uninstall this version or will it be over written?
151 2013-11-12 14:15:28 <sipa> installing a newer one should unintall the previous one
152 2013-11-12 14:15:36 <kezu> how do I install it from command line im trying to install bitcoind by the way
153 2013-11-12 14:15:48 <sipa> there are instructions on the PPA page
154 2013-11-12 14:21:09 <kezu> sipa I shouldnt need a symlink to import the bootstrap.dat file off another drive or to store the blockchain on another drive should I
155 2013-11-12 14:21:55 <kezu> ok looks like I was able to succesfully install the new version thanks the link
156 2013-11-12 14:22:04 <kezu> for*^ the
157 2013-11-12 14:23:41 <kezu> -datadir="<dir>"  tag should eliminate the need to symlink?
158 2013-11-12 14:23:48 <sipa> yes
159 2013-11-12 14:23:59 <kezu> sweet
160 2013-11-12 14:24:29 <helo> anyone know why my 0.8.5 node would have 55 connections, but with the latest block ~4 weeks old?
161 2013-11-12 14:24:45 <helo> i didn't sync for about three weeks, and not it appears to be stuck
162 2013-11-12 14:25:32 <helo> i'll have to check which block when i am nearby it later
163 2013-11-12 14:25:43 <kezu> sipa is the config file not auto generated?
164 2013-11-12 14:25:50 <sipa> kezu: no?
165 2013-11-12 14:25:57 <kezu> do I justmake one with only the rpcline its requesting?
166 2013-11-12 14:26:08 <sipa> you need to set an rpc user and rpc password
167 2013-11-12 14:26:37 <sipa> helo: what is the problem?
168 2013-11-12 14:27:34 <helo> i don't see any obvious errors in the log. it's connecting to nodes as usual, it just seems to be stuck. i wish i had the log here with me, but i don't :/
169 2013-11-12 14:27:36 <kezu> sipa: yes but where do I locate the config file sorry for the noob question
170 2013-11-12 14:27:45 <sipa> kezu: ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
171 2013-11-12 14:27:55 <sipa> or in general, $DATADIR/bitcoin.conf
172 2013-11-12 14:28:08 <sipa> if you're changing the datadir, it takes its config from there
173 2013-11-12 14:28:50 <kezu> sipa so there will be nothing in the config besides the rpcuser and rpcpassword lines?
174 2013-11-12 14:29:13 <sipa> kezu: there won't be anything but what you put there, no
175 2013-11-12 14:29:22 <kezu> ok
176 2013-11-12 14:29:25 <sipa> if you want to put more configuration there, you can
177 2013-11-12 14:29:29 <sipa> if you don't, don't
178 2013-11-12 14:31:32 <kezu> ok sounds good. last question, when i start it again now it should start importing the bootstrap.dat? will there be any output to show its status?
179 2013-11-12 14:31:37 <kezu> or progress?
180 2013-11-12 14:31:49 <sipa> bitcoind never shows any output at all
181 2013-11-12 14:32:01 <sipa> but you can call bitcoind getinfo
182 2013-11-12 14:32:08 <sipa> or you can watch the logfile
183 2013-11-12 14:35:26 <sipa> kezu: please stay in channel
184 2013-11-12 14:35:42 <sipa> tail -f <ilename> wil watch a log
185 2013-11-12 14:35:53 <kezu> sure didnt want to clog up chan with my noob questions
186 2013-11-12 14:35:55 <kezu> :)
187 2013-11-12 14:36:54 <kezu> ok so i run bitcoind and it should automatically start importing and then downloading the rest of the block chain then i open another teminal or screen instance and run bitcound getinfo?
188 2013-11-12 14:37:07 <kezu> terminal*
189 2013-11-12 14:37:18 <sipa> just do it
190 2013-11-12 14:37:39 <sipa> you'll see what happens, better than i can explain it
191 2013-11-12 14:39:05 <kezu> okie dokie thanks again
192 2013-11-12 14:46:40 <kezu> ok well I ran it it just had a blinking cursor so i ctrl z and it said bitcond stopped now i try with -debug tag and i get an error saying can not obtain a lock prob running etc
193 2013-11-12 14:49:27 <helo> find the pid of bitcoind/qt, 'kill <pid>', and then wait until that process has exited ('wait <pid>')
194 2013-11-12 14:49:43 <sipa> if you used ctrl-z, you can't kill it
195 2013-11-12 14:49:56 <sipa> continue first, and kill it the right way
196 2013-11-12 14:50:05 <sipa> if you want it to run in the background, use -daemon
197 2013-11-12 14:50:20 <sipa> -debug just adds more debug output to debug.log
198 2013-11-12 14:55:07 <kezu> ended up rebooting it
199 2013-11-12 14:55:10 <kezu> it was un responsive
200 2013-11-12 14:55:43 <kezu> what is the correct way to stop it?
201 2013-11-12 14:55:57 <sipa> bitcoind stop
202 2013-11-12 14:56:02 <sipa> or killall bitcoind
203 2013-11-12 14:56:06 <sipa> or ctrl-c
204 2013-11-12 14:56:18 <sipa> (the latter won't work when it's running in the background)
205 2013-11-12 14:58:25 <kezu> ok
206 2013-11-12 14:58:59 <sipa> after ctrl-z backgrounding a job, you can let it continue using the fg or bg commands in your shell
207 2013-11-12 14:59:37 <kezu> ctrl z just made it say bitcoind stopped
208 2013-11-12 14:59:38 <sipa> (that has nothing to do with bitcoin though)
209 2013-11-12 14:59:44 <kezu> and killall returned nothing
210 2013-11-12 14:59:50 <sipa> yes, you may want to read up about some basic unix shell stuff :)
211 2013-11-12 15:00:09 <kezu> heh
212 2013-11-12 15:01:00 <kezu> kinda strange it doesnt let you know how many blocks are imported downloaded etc?
213 2013-11-12 15:09:35 <kezu> ok i ran bitcoind -getinfo i just get busy terminal i guess its doing stuff?
214 2013-11-12 15:11:26 <kezu> sorry i kept dc'ing had a server issue
215 2013-11-12 15:16:29 <sipa> it's getinfo, not -getinfo
216 2013-11-12 15:16:48 <sipa> it's not a flag, it's a command you are sending to an already running server
217 2013-11-12 15:17:10 <sipa> and it will tell you how many blocks it has processed
218 2013-11-12 15:23:47 <kezu> sipa i think its borked log says cannot bind to Error: Unable to bind to 0.0.0.0:8333 on this computer. Bitcoin is probably already running.
219 2013-11-12 15:24:14 <sipa> then it is
220 2013-11-12 15:26:58 <kezu> error: couldn't connect to server
221 2013-11-12 15:26:58 <kezu> i get $ bitcoind getinfo
222 2013-11-12 15:28:19 <sipa> what does: ps ax| fgrep bitcoind
223 2013-11-12 15:28:20 <helo> kezu: #bitcoin
224 2013-11-12 15:28:20 <sipa> say?
225 2013-11-12 15:29:08 <kezu> http://dpaste.com/1458059/
226 2013-11-12 15:29:18 <kezu> after i started it again
227 2013-11-12 15:29:29 <sipa> how did you start it?
228 2013-11-12 15:29:54 <kezu> just typed bitcoind
229 2013-11-12 15:30:02 <kezu> now i did bitcoind&
230 2013-11-12 15:30:16 <sipa> use bitcoind -daemon if you want to run it in the background
231 2013-11-12 15:30:21 <sipa> or put daemon=1 in bitcoin.conf
232 2013-11-12 15:30:31 <sipa> and indeed -> #bitcoin
233 2013-11-12 15:32:47 <skinnkavaj> Funny that the guy running BTCGuild pool have had like one chance a day to ruin bitcoin if he wanted. If it is not every day I see 6 BTCGuild blocks in row, it is every second day.
234 2013-11-12 15:33:19 <helo> he has one chance to ruin his reputation, not bitcoin ;)
235 2013-11-12 15:33:40 <skinnkavaj> Bitcoin decentralized? What a joke
236 2013-11-12 15:33:49 <skinnkavaj> He is one man in ctrol
237 2013-11-12 15:33:50 <skinnkavaj> control
238 2013-11-12 15:34:03 <helo> controlling six blocks isn't controlling bitcoin...
239 2013-11-12 15:34:18 <skinnkavaj> But everyone use 6 confirmations
240 2013-11-12 15:34:25 <skinnkavaj> He could easily manipulate that
241 2013-11-12 15:35:43 <helo> if he did that even once, his great pool would be ruined. he has a lot to lose by such a move.
242 2013-11-12 15:35:43 <skinnkavaj> gavinandresen say 6 confirmations is enough while it isn't
243 2013-11-12 15:36:05 <skinnkavaj> But still, he is in control.
244 2013-11-12 15:36:17 <skinnkavaj> What if he get hacked?
245 2013-11-12 15:36:20 <helo> skinnkavaj: i don't believe he said that. do you have a link?
246 2013-11-12 15:36:37 <skinnkavaj> He may not want to do it intentionally, but someone could hack his computer or his pool.
247 2013-11-12 15:36:44 <skinnkavaj> helo: He did, google for it.
248 2013-11-12 15:36:56 <helo> any dev will tell you that the number of confirmations you should require depends on many factors
249 2013-11-12 15:37:27 <kezu> i dont think this bitcoind is working properly
250 2013-11-12 15:38:03 <helo> skinnkavaj: whether he does it or is hacked, his reputation and pool popularity will be ruined. he has a lot of incentive to be secure.
251 2013-11-12 15:38:03 <kezu> is there supposed to be no more output after dbflush ended?
252 2013-11-12 15:38:44 <skinnkavaj> helo: Ofc he have incentive to be secure. But I don't want to rely on his goodwill or that he is a security expert.
253 2013-11-12 15:39:02 <skinnkavaj> I want bitcoin to be decentralized
254 2013-11-12 15:39:07 <skinnkavaj> Which it is not today
255 2013-11-12 15:39:19 <helo> skinnkavaj: if someone is paying you a lot of bitcoin, require more confirmations before completing your side of the deal
256 2013-11-12 15:39:19 <sipa> it's a hard problem
257 2013-11-12 15:39:46 <sipa> mining is almost by definition not fully decentralized: it is giving certain players in the network the privilege of controlling what goes in the chain
258 2013-11-12 15:40:03 <helo> skinnkavaj: if you see a mining pool getting 7 consecutive blocks every other day, then perhaps wait 9 confirmations
259 2013-11-12 15:40:11 <sipa> unfortunately, we do not have a better way to decentralize that part of decision-making
260 2013-11-12 15:40:26 <skinnkavaj> There must be other ways
261 2013-11-12 15:40:27 <skinnkavaj> Not though off yet
262 2013-11-12 15:40:48 <helo> skinnkavaj: "more confirmations" is the way
263 2013-11-12 15:40:48 <sipa> and yes, what number of confirmations suffices depends on many factors, not in the least how much hashrate you assume your attacker can amass
264 2013-11-12 15:41:33 <Belxjander> sipa: that is why the only valid attack is to become the largest mining setup and dominate to the point where everyone else can't enter to compete
265 2013-11-12 15:41:54 <Belxjander> sipa: once that is monopolized... it is almost end-gaming the currency afaik
266 2013-11-12 15:42:19 <sipa> Belxjander: the systemic problem is that increasing hashrate percentage has superlinear effects
267 2013-11-12 15:42:41 <sipa> this is obvious once you reach 51%, but it's true before that point
268 2013-11-12 15:43:09 <Belxjander> I don't do the math side of things so well but a dominant pool only has to be the largest pool is what I see
269 2013-11-12 15:43:49 <Belxjander> if there are 3 pools of 20% and 1 pool of 30% with a whole lot of fragments making the remaining 10%...
270 2013-11-12 15:43:57 <Belxjander> the 30% pool I would see as dominant
271 2013-11-12 15:44:51 <Belxjander> but any two of the 20% pools merging would immediately become dominant over that
272 2013-11-12 15:45:27 <Belxjander> which would make the minimum "dominance position" of mining a minumum of 41% (not 51%)
273 2013-11-12 15:45:36 <sipa> there is no dominance as long as nobody tries to collude against others
274 2013-11-12 15:45:39 <bitnumus> Hi, if i build bitcoind for raspberry pi, should i be able to copy the chain from ubuntu 13.10 ?
275 2013-11-12 15:45:56 <sipa> Belxjander: in theory, though it has been reported that this doesn't work
276 2013-11-12 15:45:57 <bitnumus> or will berkeleyDB version be an issue?
277 2013-11-12 15:46:10 <sipa> eh. bitnumus
278 2013-11-12 15:46:16 <Belxjander> sipa: I'm going to imagine sociopathes behind the tech so worst traits of collusion and other things will happen
279 2013-11-12 15:46:29 <bitnumus> sipa, when i ran it, it complained about reindexing the DB, and never finished
280 2013-11-12 15:46:46 <Belxjander> bitnumus: did you use the same version of bdb ?
281 2013-11-12 15:46:48 <helo> bitnumus: i think some of the data can be fairly platform dependant
282 2013-11-12 15:47:01 <sipa> leveldb is supposed to be independent
283 2013-11-12 15:47:06 <sipa> but the ARM code may be buggy
284 2013-11-12 15:47:23 <bitnumus> yea this was my question, is the binary for ubuntu 13.10 (its in the repo now) based off BDB5 ?
285 2013-11-12 15:47:29 <Belxjander> sipa: how well are you familiar with the wallet and bitcoind codebase ?
286 2013-11-12 15:47:29 <bitnumus> because obviously i'm building for 4.8
287 2013-11-12 15:48:14 <bitnumus> RPI cannot handle downloading the chain, so maybe i need to install wheezy somewhere and download the chain using a binary made for that
288 2013-11-12 15:48:27 <sipa> Belxjander: i wrote a significant part
289 2013-11-12 15:49:11 <helo> bitnumus: yeah... running a full node on hardware like that is probably not ideal
290 2013-11-12 15:49:12 <Belxjander> sipa: I'm considering writing up an AmigaOS variaton of the reference toolkit... But I am not so great with finding my way around the codebase
291 2013-11-12 15:49:31 <bitnumus> helo, its the only option
292 2013-11-12 15:49:33 <Belxjander> sipa: the hardware on the Amiga is a PPC 667MHz as a base model
293 2013-11-12 15:49:47 <sipa> Belxjander: i think that's a horrible idea
294 2013-11-12 15:50:12 <sipa> Belxjander: if you're on hardware that cannot handle a full node, then don't run one
295 2013-11-12 15:50:30 <sipa> porting a wallet implementation of some p2p watching system is very nice of course
296 2013-11-12 15:50:31 <Belxjander> sipa: the only options I have would be write something equivalent... or somehow compile the original code and link an AmigaOS shell around it
297 2013-11-12 15:50:43 <Belxjander> sipa: I'm wanting to start with a Wallet program
298 2013-11-12 15:50:57 <Belxjander> sipa: and have a shared library I can build node support into later
299 2013-11-12 15:51:29 <sipa> Belxjander: writing a functional full node is extremely hard
300 2013-11-12 15:51:41 <sipa> Belxjander: knowing that you have to replciate the behaviour of other network nodes idnetically
301 2013-11-12 15:51:44 <sipa> bug-for-bug
302 2013-11-12 15:51:51 <Belxjander> sipa: one idea I had was to do a "blockchainfs" just to deal with the blockchain and its DB storage requirements
303 2013-11-12 15:52:15 <danneu> Belxjander: you can get blkXXXXX.dat data from any full-node
304 2013-11-12 15:52:21 <Belxjander> sipa: which is why I would start with packet reception and skip processing anything at all and slowly build up functionality starting with a local blockchain dump
305 2013-11-12 15:52:21 <danneu> pressed enter too soon
306 2013-11-12 15:52:36 <sipa> Belxjander: knock yourself out
307 2013-11-12 15:52:38 <Belxjander> danneu: PPC is BE and x86 is LE...
308 2013-11-12 15:52:49 <sipa> Belxjander: as long as you don't plan on turning it into a fully verifying node
309 2013-11-12 15:53:01 <danneu> Belxjander: can't reverse endian?
310 2013-11-12 15:53:22 <Belxjander> sipa: I just don't really have familiarity enough with the codebase to select where to start first for any node functionality... or even to pick out what is wallet and what is other things
311 2013-11-12 15:53:54 <Belxjander> sipa: oh hell no... I'd only do that if it was stable enough to be reference usable and I doubt I would get that far
312 2013-11-12 15:54:12 <Belxjander> danneu: PPC is BE at boot but soft-change for read/write both BE and LE
313 2013-11-12 15:54:38 <Belxjander> I can "reverse read" an LE value in BE mode or vice-versa
314 2013-11-12 15:54:58 <Belxjander> same clock timing on the read operation