1 2013-11-28 00:01:21 <berndj> melvster, i was thinking along the same lines, and thought the best thing (for the health of the bitcoin ecosystem) would be to get some really good open source web wallet and exchange codebases going
2 2013-11-28 00:01:49 <berndj> because there are going to be web wallets and exchanges, i don't think we have a choice in that, so they might as well be good ones
3 2013-11-28 00:01:57 <melvster> berndj: i could code up either i think ...
4 2013-11-28 00:02:16 <melvster> but id like to wait for 2 things re: wallets ... 1) trezor 2) web crypto API
5 2013-11-28 00:02:23 <melvster> both coming early 2014
6 2013-11-28 00:02:33 <berndj> and the existence of both would be a good anti-centralization bulwark
7 2013-11-28 00:03:03 <berndj> do you mean a browser-based crypto api?
8 2013-11-28 00:03:48 <melvster> bernddj: yes browser crypto api
9 2013-11-28 00:03:51 <berndj> melvster, how will trezor's timeline affect what you (should / would / could) do?
10 2013-11-28 00:04:15 <melvster> berndj: just wanna try it out ... ive ordered 16 ... probably far too many! :)
11 2013-11-28 00:04:29 <berndj> melvster, we also don't get to choose whether IE 7 (phew, at least we can think of ignoring 6) is around or not
12 2013-11-28 00:04:50 <melvster> i dont use windows so im not hugely concerned about that
13 2013-11-28 00:04:59 <melvster> (personally)
14 2013-11-28 00:05:30 <berndj> i'd hate to look back in 5 years and see that all we've done is to replace the "Visa / Mastercard" dual sticker in store windows with a "Bitpay / Coinbase" sticker
15 2013-11-28 00:05:52 <berndj> yeah, neither do it, but the (desired) ecosystem does
16 2013-11-28 00:06:03 <melvster> berndj: so a distributed exchange is something i think i can build and open source ... i have some basic prototypes going, but it needs a rewrite based on what i have learnt, what about existing things like mastercoin?
17 2013-11-28 00:06:42 <melvster> ive helped build exchanges before, but for corporations ... i can do an open source version
18 2013-11-28 00:07:35 <berndj> have you looked at OpenTransactions?
19 2013-11-28 00:07:47 <sipa> for a corporation writing an exchange is probably a small cost compared to the cost of setting a business, getting legal compliance, auditing security, ...
20 2013-11-28 00:07:51 <melvster> berndj: of course ... donated 30 btc to it :)
21 2013-11-28 00:08:01 <berndj> i haven't looked long enough to know whether it has relevance for a post-7tps bitcoin world
22 2013-11-28 00:08:21 <shamoon> http://bitcoinfees.com/
23 2013-11-28 00:08:28 <shamoon> has 4 metrics for paying fees
24 2013-11-28 00:08:31 <berndj> sipa, *for a well-funded corporation
25 2013-11-28 00:08:53 <shamoon> if i don't prioritise old-coins
26 2013-11-28 00:08:54 <melvster> sipa: yes very true ... it was a large company so they had the legal stuff covered, i worked in financial services in the 90s
27 2013-11-28 00:09:25 <shamoon> will the tx eventually send?
28 2013-11-28 00:09:27 <shamoon> once the blocks age out?
29 2013-11-28 00:10:17 <melvster> berndj: OT is awesome, but probably off topic for this channel there's an opentransactions IRC chat room
30 2013-11-28 00:10:31 <melvster> I can say it's being actively developed
31 2013-11-28 00:10:35 <gavinandresen> shamoon: nice. Also: https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/7670433
32 2013-11-28 00:10:41 <melvster> and there's room to integrate with btc
33 2013-11-28 00:11:09 <berndj> sipa, while the dev cost is negligible for a corporation that's already committed to being an exchange, it could be a big chunk of the cost of getting to the point that you get the commitment to sort out the legal / auditing stuff
34 2013-11-28 00:14:48 <melvster> in truth there's a split of cost between what's called "front office" , "middle office" and "back office" ... front office makes the software that generates income, middle office handles the downstream processing of trades, back office handles legal and auditing, the last 2 are cost centers, you want to have a good balance of development to generate revenue and that to do the due dilligence
35 2013-11-28 00:38:03 <warren> gavinandresen: ACK on 0.8.6 proposed changes
36 2013-11-28 04:36:31 <toffoo> oh ya baby: thanks so much gavinandresen, I just ordered my very first alpaca socks with the 0.05 BTC your fountain sent me in march/2011 ... it seemed so worthless at the time, and now I have socks
37 2013-11-28 04:42:15 <warren> toffoo: hey
38 2013-11-28 04:42:26 <warren> toffoo: how went that binary?
39 2013-11-28 04:42:38 <warren> toffoo: a completely different fix was made since then, we need testing of another build
40 2013-11-28 04:42:44 <toffoo> hi warren,
41 2013-11-28 04:42:54 <toffoo> yes I was going to ask you about that
42 2013-11-28 04:43:37 <warren> toffoo: did this recent build corrupt at all?
43 2013-11-28 04:44:07 <toffoo> I haven't gotten too far with it yet,
44 2013-11-28 04:44:12 <toffoo> still reindexing
45 2013-11-28 04:44:54 <toffoo> should I continue with the first binary or is the second really the one I should be testing?
46 2013-11-28 04:45:07 <warren> really the second, but curious about the first
47 2013-11-28 04:45:30 <warren> toffoo: I'll make a new build now.
48 2013-11-28 05:45:55 <darbsllim> hey guys, where would I go about trying to find a team for a serious complimentary coin
49 2013-11-28 05:52:11 <JimJones> darbsllim, what do you mean?
50 2013-11-28 07:38:37 <beethoven8201> ;;tslb
51 2013-11-28 07:38:40 <gribble> Time since last block: 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 29 seconds
52 2013-11-28 07:38:56 <beethoven8201> is that TSLB accurate guys?
53 2013-11-28 07:39:59 <beethoven8201> I think no
54 2013-11-28 07:46:18 <warren> beethoven8201: looks like blockchain.info broke
55 2013-11-28 07:46:23 <warren> beethoven8201: and the bot relies on it
56 2013-11-28 07:46:31 <beethoven8201> ok
57 2013-11-28 07:54:15 <edcba> hmm bitcoin-qt doesn't respect chosen language for displaying last block time
58 2013-11-28 07:54:34 <edcba> jeu. 28. nov. 08:47:13 2013
59 2013-11-28 09:53:26 <warren> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/~warren/bitcoin-0.8.5-OMG5/
60 2013-11-28 09:53:58 <warren> https://github.com/litecoin-project/bitcoinomg/commits/0.8.5-OMG5
61 2013-11-28 10:10:16 <toffoo> warren got it, many thanks, I'll check in later today with an update
62 2013-11-28 10:39:04 <diki> I am writing my own blockchain parser. But I am encountering a really weird bug.
63 2013-11-28 10:39:20 <diki> it works on the genesis block
64 2013-11-28 10:39:59 <diki> but I decided to try it out on an older block, I chose this one https://blockchain.info/block-index/233150/0000000000000208843fd654bd8087d86773c34333bea46f735f93fff554c7ba
65 2013-11-28 10:40:46 <diki> The offset of the block in my blk00000.dat file is 1642744123, so I manually fseek to that location and fread 4 bytes(the magic bytes).
66 2013-11-28 10:41:22 <diki> immediately after the fread I am all of a sudden on offset 1642747711
67 2013-11-28 10:41:29 <diki> that is many many bytes ahead
68 2013-11-28 10:41:36 <diki> I am not sure why this is happening.
69 2013-11-28 10:42:31 <sipa> can you paste the code somewhere?
70 2013-11-28 10:44:23 <warren> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337294 MacOS users, please test this build. Theoretically it no longer corrupts your database. Need confirmation.
71 2013-11-28 10:44:44 <diki> sipa:http://pastebin.com/iFxWqtFz
72 2013-11-28 10:45:23 <darsie> hey
73 2013-11-28 10:46:10 <darsie> Could a too low or no tx fee cause a tx not to be spread in the net?
74 2013-11-28 10:46:29 <diki> darsie:Miners may chose to ignore it, yes.
75 2013-11-28 10:46:53 <darsie> not put it in blocks. Also not spread it?
76 2013-11-28 10:47:27 <sipa> if you don't match the relay rules of nodes, yes
77 2013-11-28 10:47:33 <sipa> i.e. if they consider it spam
78 2013-11-28 10:47:44 <darsie> Mtgox made a 0.001 btc tx fee mandatory, because some of their tx wouldn't propagate in the net.
79 2013-11-28 10:48:21 <TD> 0.001 is 10x higher than the minimum. their relay issues were afaik due to protocol violations rather than insufficient fees
80 2013-11-28 10:48:25 <gmaxwell> darsie: mtgox had unrelated problems, they were producing outright invalid transactions.
81 2013-11-28 10:48:39 <darsie> 11:11:09 <ctimmerm> is there any way to withdraw BTC from mtgox without network fee?
82 2013-11-28 10:48:40 <darsie> 11:13:00 <@SarahCoinBit> ctimmerm: Not anymore sorry, the transactions were not getting processed
83 2013-11-28 10:49:00 <darsie> They are fucking not listening and can't fix it properly.
84 2013-11-28 10:49:22 <diki> sipa:If you have an idea why this is happening, please let me know.
85 2013-11-28 10:49:50 <sipa> diki: you need SEEK_SET
86 2013-11-28 10:50:02 <sipa> not CUR, that's for relative movement
87 2013-11-28 10:50:34 <gmaxwell> darsie: I actually do think their senior folks understand the issue(s) (there were actually more than one)
88 2013-11-28 10:50:46 <bitanarchy> what does it take to run armory over tor?
89 2013-11-28 10:50:50 <diki> sipa:SEEK_CUR should give the current offset, which on the first read should be 0
90 2013-11-28 10:51:22 <diki> so long as the documentation I am reading is not leading my astray
91 2013-11-28 10:51:41 <sipa> diki: CUR means the number you specify is relative to the currebt position
92 2013-11-28 10:52:29 <diki> I applied the change, recompiled but, after that fread of just 4 bytes, I am a couple of thousand of bytes forward.
93 2013-11-28 10:52:38 <diki> just like before
94 2013-11-28 10:52:43 <sipa> what is your code now?
95 2013-11-28 10:52:53 <diki> fseek(fp, read_cursor, SEEK_SET);
96 2013-11-28 10:54:00 <sipa> then i don't know
97 2013-11-28 10:58:07 <diki> I hope it's not a bug with the implementation of these functions
98 2013-11-28 10:59:49 <diki> wait, I think I may have found the source of the problem
99 2013-11-28 11:00:14 <diki> nope, false alarm
100 2013-11-28 11:00:30 <diki> Speaking of alarm, a bot just PM'ed me trying to make me click that bitcoin-alarm link
101 2013-11-28 11:01:32 <bitanarchy> Does bitcoin.conf overrule the qt settings or the otherway around?
102 2013-11-28 11:09:31 <wumpus> bitanarchy: bitcoin.conf are treated as command line arguments, they override everything
103 2013-11-28 11:10:59 <bitanarchy> how can i check that armory is really using tor?
104 2013-11-28 11:11:42 <wumpus> netstat and/or wireshark
105 2013-11-28 11:12:07 <bitanarchy> bit armory uses bitcoind... so i should check bitcoind in netstat right
106 2013-11-28 11:12:16 <wumpus> yes
107 2013-11-28 11:12:49 <wumpus> though I don't know if armory makes any net connections outside of bitcoind
108 2013-11-28 11:15:32 <wumpus> also your debug.log will have Proxy Errors when you use Tor
109 2013-11-28 11:15:42 <wumpus> :p
110 2013-11-28 11:16:01 <diki> what the? https://blockchain.info/block/000000004b7959f66c9dab42b8933f0a43c9705bd9bd486de3a69407fb072cd3
111 2013-11-28 11:16:19 <diki> somebody trying to do something naughty?
112 2013-11-28 11:16:38 <wumpus> but it doesn't seem that the actual fact of using a proxy is logged anywhere
113 2013-11-28 11:18:19 <wumpus> diki: about 10 orphan blocks on top of the genesis block, looks like either a blockchain.info messup, or someone is trying to do something naughty
114 2013-11-28 11:18:47 <wumpus> he is including transactions, that is weird
115 2013-11-28 11:19:35 <diki> what if it's somebody syncing and decided to try and mine?
116 2013-11-28 11:19:49 <diki> ..but the client forbids that I think
117 2013-11-28 11:20:30 <wumpus> yes AFAIK the client disallows that
118 2013-11-28 11:20:48 <diki> so somebody is intentionally doing this
119 2013-11-28 11:20:54 <diki> the block reward IS 50btc in there
120 2013-11-28 11:21:10 <wumpus> hehe, at difficulty 1
121 2013-11-28 11:21:20 <wumpus> good old times
122 2013-11-28 11:21:31 <JyZyXEL> i like that guys chain, im gonna go and start mining it!
123 2013-11-28 11:21:42 <diki> wumpus:Weird
124 2013-11-28 11:21:54 <diki> the block was mined on the 26th and very slowly too
125 2013-11-28 11:22:04 <diki> like hours apart, if it's safe to judge by that info
126 2013-11-28 11:23:03 <wumpus> the solipsist miner
127 2013-11-28 11:25:36 <diki> funny
128 2013-11-28 11:25:44 <diki> the IP that relayed it runs some service 62.147.167.68
129 2013-11-28 11:25:47 <gmaxwell> or just someone who saw this chart: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/powdays-50k.png
130 2013-11-28 11:28:04 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: why isn't 0.8.6 branch based on the 0.8.x branch?
131 2013-11-28 11:28:54 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: because we don't have a 0.8 branch
132 2013-11-28 11:29:00 <Luke-Jr> yes we do
133 2013-11-28 11:29:05 <Luke-Jr> it's in the stable git repo as always
134 2013-11-28 11:29:15 <TD> gavinandresen: around?
135 2013-11-28 11:29:23 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: any patches I missed?
136 2013-11-28 11:29:38 <diki> wumpus:Even more funny, the IP that relayed it has a domain name linked to it, hobeika.fr, while if you open the IP directly it links to some page CDash Projects
137 2013-11-28 11:29:40 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: likely, there were something around 30 total
138 2013-11-28 11:29:51 <Luke-Jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable/source/490bed55d9e3783142e9485ae871ec8513a87771:
139 2013-11-28 11:30:08 <gavinandresen> TD: about to head to bed⦠just commented on the lower relay fee pull
140 2013-11-28 11:30:15 <TD> sleep well!
141 2013-11-28 11:30:28 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: changelog so far is http://codepad.org/CZkaPdZA
142 2013-11-28 11:31:26 <gavinandresen> YOU have a stable 0.8.x branch, WE have never supported such a thing
143 2013-11-28 11:31:41 <gavinandresen> That's the royal "WE"....
144 2013-11-28 11:32:15 <wumpus> yeah, this is confusing, though if you have something that should absolutely be in 0.8.6 (and is already in master) let me know
145 2013-11-28 11:32:18 <warren> gavinandresen: I at least gave a ridiculous name to my bitcoin
146 2013-11-28 11:32:19 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: oh, you're royalty now?
147 2013-11-28 11:32:27 <gavinandresen> ACTION mumbles about how he can't keep track of 0.8.x and 0.8.OMG11 ....
148 2013-11-28 11:32:33 <warren> Luke-Jr: all hail gavinandresen
149 2013-11-28 11:32:34 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: google royal we
150 2013-11-28 11:32:40 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: everything in 0.8.x is in master
151 2013-11-28 11:32:41 <gavinandresen> The High and Mighty!
152 2013-11-28 11:32:48 <gavinandresen> BOW BEFORE ME PEONS!
153 2013-11-28 11:32:51 <UukGoblin> nanotube, #bitcoin-market's gone quiet
154 2013-11-28 11:32:56 <gavinandresen> ok, time for bed, obviously....
155 2013-11-28 11:32:57 <warren> ACTION bows.
156 2013-11-28 11:33:12 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: ok, well I'll take a look at the list
157 2013-11-28 11:33:16 <wumpus> sleep well gavinandresen
158 2013-11-28 11:33:23 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: are you asking why it wasn't derrived from your 0.8.x or just the prior 0.8.5 branch in master?
159 2013-11-28 11:33:40 <gavinandresen> less is better for 0.8.6 in my humble opinion
160 2013-11-28 11:33:49 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: unless for an emergency fix release, it should just be based on the 0.8.x branch
161 2013-11-28 11:34:14 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I'm not sure which 0.8.x you're talking about.
162 2013-11-28 11:34:24 <warren> there is no 0.8.x branch
163 2013-11-28 11:34:28 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable/source/490bed55d9e3783142e9485ae871ec8513a87771: is the only 0.8.x branch afaik
164 2013-11-28 11:34:31 <Luke-Jr> warren: there is, ^
165 2013-11-28 11:34:32 <gmaxwell> The one you've been maintaining (have you even been maintaining one for 0.8?)
166 2013-11-28 11:34:38 <gmaxwell> okay, the one you've been maintaining.
167 2013-11-28 11:34:52 <gmaxwell> (sorry, just trying to clarify what was meant here)
168 2013-11-28 11:35:55 <Luke-Jr> looks like wumpus's branch misses all but one of the fixes, so I guess it should just merge in cleanly
169 2013-11-28 11:36:17 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: what are you carrying that wumpus's branch didn't pickup?
170 2013-11-28 11:36:36 <Luke-Jr> "Fix build date for from-tarball builds" is the only one wumpus *did* pickup
171 2013-11-28 11:36:36 <wumpus>
172 2013-11-28 11:36:36 <wumpus> Fix memory leak on exception in Key::SignCompact
173 2013-11-28 11:36:43 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/CZkaPdZA
174 2013-11-28 11:36:46 <wumpus> these sound interesting
175 2013-11-28 11:36:59 <gmaxwell> (incidentally, that kind of comparison is one way that your work on the branch is useful, even if the tree for the release isn't derrived from it)
176 2013-11-28 11:38:19 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: 0.8.x should merge cleanly into your current branch
177 2013-11-28 11:38:39 <Luke-Jr> diff http://codepad.org/22O5JrDB
178 2013-11-28 11:39:51 <sipa> that diff looks safe (only checked briefly)
179 2013-11-28 11:40:04 <sipa> though i prefer cherry-picking individual changes, rather than merging
180 2013-11-28 11:40:14 <Luke-Jr> I'm curious as to the src/test/util_tests.cpp removals
181 2013-11-28 11:40:25 <wumpus> yes looks ok, though I dont understand the BOOST_AUTO_TEST_CASE(util_TimingResistantEqual)
182 2013-11-28 11:40:29 <wumpus> right
183 2013-11-28 11:40:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: merging is correct in this case, since we want all of them
184 2013-11-28 11:40:46 <Luke-Jr> unless this test thing doesn't belong, but even then it should be reverted in the branch
185 2013-11-28 11:40:46 <wumpus> I don't want the ones that delete test cases
186 2013-11-28 11:41:10 <Luke-Jr> ACTION investigates
187 2013-11-28 11:42:12 <gmaxwell> The rand testcases were removed because they could fail randomly. They were a bit to sensitive and were just replaced with determinstic tests that could never fail unless the code was changed.
188 2013-11-28 11:42:38 <Luke-Jr> ah
189 2013-11-28 11:44:09 <wumpus> okay
190 2013-11-28 11:44:41 <wumpus> so I'm just going to cherry pick all of them, I prefer that to merging too
191 2013-11-28 11:45:02 <Luke-Jr> â¦
192 2013-11-28 11:45:31 <Luke-Jr> "let's use git, but pretend we're using CVS" *sigh*
193 2013-11-28 11:45:40 <gmaxwell> sounds like a plan to me
194 2013-11-28 11:45:42 <gmaxwell> :P
195 2013-11-28 11:45:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Have I ever told you about the git reset command? it's so awesome!
196 2013-11-28 11:46:54 <TD> ACTION is a guilty serial cherry picker
197 2013-11-28 11:46:55 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: cherry-picking them is going to make merging yours back into 0.8.x a pain
198 2013-11-28 11:47:03 <TD> merges make reading commit histories much harder
199 2013-11-28 11:47:05 <Luke-Jr> or at least ugly
200 2013-11-28 11:47:18 <Luke-Jr> TD: not really
201 2013-11-28 11:47:38 <warren> ACTION loves to --force
202 2013-11-28 11:47:53 <diki> Lol
203 2013-11-28 11:48:06 <diki> found the guy that mined on top of the genesis block
204 2013-11-28 11:48:25 <wumpus> yes, hard to read :/ https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable/commits/490bed55d9e3783142e9485ae871ec8513a87771
205 2013-11-28 11:49:03 <Luke-Jr> git log --no-merges
206 2013-11-28 11:49:30 <wumpus> might be due to gitorious, but compared to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/0.8.6 it's almost impossible to see what happens
207 2013-11-28 11:49:53 <Luke-Jr> of course, the ideal is daggy fixes, but I can't get you guys to do that it seems :P
208 2013-11-28 11:51:43 <warren> Luke-Jr: https://github.com/litecoin-project/bitcoinomg/commits/0.8.5-OMG5 I had some of your "stable" patches but didn't suggest it for 0.8.6 because I didn't think they were critical
209 2013-11-28 11:51:51 <warren> but I see no harm
210 2013-11-28 11:53:32 <Luke-Jr> nothing in 0.8.6 is critical, that's the point :p
211 2013-11-28 11:53:55 <wumpus> except the mac corruption fix!!
212 2013-11-28 11:53:58 <wumpus> if it pans out
213 2013-11-28 11:54:04 <Luke-Jr> wait, we actually got that fixed?
214 2013-11-28 11:54:32 <wumpus> hopefully: https://github.com/rescrv/StockLevelDB/commit/4c55a2eccc0f9fa6fc3445ea5307a042eb6064a2
215 2013-11-28 11:54:54 <warren> Luke-Jr: you can read his "victory speech" here http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/27/bitcoin-leveldb/
216 2013-11-28 11:56:24 <Luke-Jr> nice
217 2013-11-28 12:00:42 <Emcy> how much is the bounty in dollars
218 2013-11-28 12:01:17 <diki> 10 or more grand
219 2013-11-28 12:01:19 <warren> Emcy: seems to be growing by the second
220 2013-11-28 12:01:30 <Emcy> well that didnt take long
221 2013-11-28 12:01:34 <warren> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337294.0 binaries
222 2013-11-28 12:01:44 <warren> that was the point of a bounty
223 2013-11-28 12:01:49 <Emcy> looks like good old fashioned bounty hunters cang et the job done
224 2013-11-28 12:02:25 <warren> it's almost $20k now
225 2013-11-28 12:06:06 <Emcy> this is great. If that was a paypal bounty theres a good chance they would freeze the account
226 2013-11-28 12:06:47 <Emcy> but bitcoin enables its own coding via economic transaction
227 2013-11-28 12:08:12 <wumpus> at least we eat our own dogfood
228 2013-11-28 12:08:41 <warren> woof
229 2013-11-28 12:09:06 <Emcy> next up: a beefy node becomes self aware, three months later the asteroid belt is now a dyson swarm
230 2013-11-28 12:14:02 <diki> so will Robert Escriva be getting the bounty if he has resolved the issue?
231 2013-11-28 12:14:43 <warren> diki: pending testing and if we have no other corruption issues
232 2013-11-28 12:15:03 <warren> we've had a hard time finding people to test the binaies
233 2013-11-28 12:15:05 <warren> binaries
234 2013-11-28 12:24:58 <Emcy> seems like this bug was affecting a few different projects
235 2013-11-28 12:28:07 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not sure what the point of looking up royal we was
236 2013-11-28 12:28:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: didn't know if you knew the phrase.
237 2013-11-28 12:29:28 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yes, that's why my point was what it was ;)
238 2013-11-28 12:32:26 <Luke-Jr> (github master is not "special" contrasted to 0.8.x just because Gavin cares about it)
239 2013-11-28 13:32:43 <warren> it's a little sad that Australians are sleeping before me
240 2013-11-28 13:33:18 <upb> because they use up all your sleep?:P
241 2013-11-28 13:35:15 <gmaxwell> warren: thats because they're in tomorrow, so they get to do everything first.
242 2013-11-28 13:36:34 <Belxjander> gmaxwell: the same is true for any Japanese "at home" overnight working the markets
243 2013-11-28 14:50:57 <TD> "I seriously question who is behind bitcoin. If it was owned by the Chinese, wouldn't we be seeing propaganda about the dangers of a foreign owned currency being used to undermine the petrodollar? I bet you will find this is some attempt thought up in a US think tank to move the world towards a cashless society and it is ultimately controlled by the US (it
244 2013-11-28 14:50:57 <TD> is licensed by MIT)."
245 2013-11-28 14:50:59 <TD> fail
246 2013-11-28 14:51:16 <TD> MIT license -> licensed by MIT :(
247 2013-11-28 14:55:22 <graingert> TD: it's controlled by US
248 2013-11-28 14:55:27 <graingert> *us
249 2013-11-28 14:55:33 <TD> lol
250 2013-11-28 15:12:30 <gmaxwell> hahah licensed by mit
251 2013-11-28 15:12:36 <gmaxwell> where is that from?
252 2013-11-28 15:12:42 <TD> bbc news comments
253 2013-11-28 15:12:54 <gmaxwell> okay, not terrible for a mass media news comment.
254 2013-11-28 15:13:26 <Luke-Jr> I've seen that one before
255 2013-11-28 15:15:25 <Emcy> whos mit?
256 2013-11-28 15:15:37 <gmaxwell> M.I.T.
257 2013-11-28 15:16:09 <Emcy> thats the joke.bmp
258 2013-11-28 15:17:28 <Emcy> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289
259 2013-11-28 15:17:41 <Emcy> hahaha i could go up there and have a look
260 2013-11-28 15:18:08 <Emcy> newport is wonderful
261 2013-11-28 15:18:27 <jeremias> is there a way to force bitcoind use only outputs which have at least 2 confirmations?
262 2013-11-28 15:18:34 <Emcy> thats where you find weed growing in council planters on the street
263 2013-11-28 15:19:16 <Emcy> TD got a link for your bbc peice today?
264 2013-11-28 15:19:21 <Emcy> i assume youre talking about
265 2013-11-28 15:19:44 <TD> news.bbc.co.uk - for me it's on the front page titled "bitcoin brawl" (seriously)
266 2013-11-28 15:20:21 <TD> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25130261
267 2013-11-28 15:20:26 <TD> the highest rated comments aren't bad actually
268 2013-11-28 15:20:27 <Emcy> wow that guy is a strange mix of westcountry and NEWPAART accent
269 2013-11-28 15:20:43 <TD> lots of reflection on how normal currencies are somewhat immaterial as well
270 2013-11-28 15:20:57 <Emcy> bitcoin brawl oh my life
271 2013-11-28 15:21:17 <gumpus> i love bitcoin news articles, especially the negative ones
272 2013-11-28 15:21:24 <Emcy> oh yes comments are on, this should be fun
273 2013-11-28 15:21:34 <gumpus> it's obvious that most of the people reporting haven't bothered to understand how it works
274 2013-11-28 15:23:09 <TD> the bbc guys do seem to understand it these days. but they're always trying to spice it up. someone from a radio show wanted me to do a phone in, and then later decided they didn't want that because they had changed it to have more of a human interest angle
275 2013-11-28 15:23:25 <TD> presumably they'll talk about the guy who threw his millions in the bin or something
276 2013-11-28 15:23:37 <Emcy> yeah
277 2013-11-28 15:24:07 <Emcy> well i just posted the link to that poor bugger
278 2013-11-28 15:24:36 <Emcy> i wonder if you told him he might have just thrown a few billion in landfill, hed go thru it with his fingernails.
279 2013-11-28 15:24:51 <Emcy> or the binmen will
280 2013-11-28 15:28:59 <Emcy> TD did you provide that picture
281 2013-11-28 15:29:12 <Emcy> also is that bronzer or a trick of the light...
282 2013-11-28 15:29:24 <TD> i thought it would be pretty lulzy to have the bitcoin advocate be wearing a cowboy hat
283 2013-11-28 15:29:40 <TD> no, that's just a normal cameraphone picture taken at a party i went to. it was america themed and had a bucking bronco
284 2013-11-28 15:30:14 <TD> i actually don't have any proper pictures of myself :( they're all pics taken by other people, usually with alcohol involved. i was thinking i needed to get a "serious" pic at some point.
285 2013-11-28 15:31:42 <Emcy> yeah looked like a facebook pic so i wondered if the beed has appropriated it lol
286 2013-11-28 15:31:59 <Emcy> nice writeup though, but i dont think the micropaymetns thing is strictly true anymore
287 2013-11-28 15:32:00 <TD> nope. they asked for a pic and lacking any alternatives, i provided them with a facebook pic
288 2013-11-28 15:32:25 <TD> i was thinking of micropayment channels. but yes the fees problem does undermine that argument a bit. there's no good reason for fees to be so high though. it's a problem that will get solved with time.
289 2013-11-28 15:32:38 <TD> see the discussion on the pull req
290 2013-11-28 15:32:53 <Emcy> what pull req
291 2013-11-28 15:33:24 <TD> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3305
292 2013-11-28 15:33:51 <Emcy> i always thought fees will probably always have to be hefty enough that polling your txns with others is a really good idea
293 2013-11-28 15:34:06 <Emcy> just to support the hashrate, disregarding the blocksize debate
294 2013-11-28 15:34:28 <Emcy> thats where coincoin handily comes in
295 2013-11-28 15:34:58 <Emcy> er coinjoin
296 2013-11-28 15:37:54 <TD> the days when fees are the primary driver of hash rates are a long way in the future, i guess
297 2013-11-28 15:38:01 <TD> but we'll see
298 2013-11-28 15:40:14 <Emcy_> woops ran my laptop dry again
299 2013-11-28 15:46:54 <Emcy_> aw dont strip the tech stuff from android wallet
300 2013-11-28 15:47:30 <Emcy_> just hide it away behind a tickbox or something if youre scared of it spooking your nan
301 2013-11-28 15:48:00 <Emcy_> its one of the only ways you can tell android wallet is doing something qualitatively different than electrum or something
302 2013-11-28 15:48:31 <Emcy_> if fact i wanted to see more tech gubbins in it not less
303 2013-11-28 15:48:37 <nanotube> UukGoblin: yea it was an issue with bcharts feed. resolved. thanks for heads up :)
304 2013-11-28 15:48:46 <TD> the network monitor would still be there
305 2013-11-28 15:48:51 <TD> and that has nerdy detail aplenty
306 2013-11-28 15:49:21 <TD> but over time electrum is getting closer to the regular SPV model anyway. eventually i guess there won't be much difference, except electrum will have a proprietary protocol and way fewer servers (and perhaps a few more features)
307 2013-11-28 15:49:46 <UukGoblin> nanotube, thanks :-)
308 2013-11-28 15:49:58 <UukGoblin> this channel means a lot to me
309 2013-11-28 15:50:04 <Emcy_> electrum is good but its completely client-server
310 2013-11-28 15:50:20 <Emcy_> it cant be anywhere near spv
311 2013-11-28 15:52:01 <Emcy_> seriously dont just remove the pie thing, just hide it if you want to. People use that and you risk pissing them off
312 2013-11-28 15:52:39 <Emcy_> like people doing mcdonalds bitcoin trades and stuff, just grab a burger and chat while waiting for one or two pie slices
313 2013-11-28 15:54:24 <fronti> i try to run bitcoind on an ipv6 only host.. can somebody please give an ipv6 node i can add via addnode? looks that at startup the client only look to ipv4 addresses
314 2013-11-28 15:54:36 <fronti> so it did not find a connection
315 2013-11-28 15:54:38 <nanotube> UukGoblin: :)
316 2013-11-28 15:54:44 <Emcy_> also im not really subscribing to the philosophy that we should be proactivly shielding people from bitcoins nasty gubbins as it were. The whole premise of it is taking back a bit of responsibility and control over YOUR money.
317 2013-11-28 15:55:20 <Emcy_> the very baic concepts are easy enough to grasp if you try, and if you dont want to try you can probably still get by ok.
318 2013-11-28 15:56:14 <shesek> someone is spamming with Bitcoin - Alarm.net, seems like a malware - beware
319 2013-11-28 15:56:57 <Emcy_> otherwise why not just resign ourselves to a future of total privkey escrow or something, and weve just produced a terribly inefficient paypal
320 2013-11-28 15:59:51 <deantrade> chainstate folder holds the spendable blocks?
321 2013-11-28 16:00:10 <deantrade> whats in the blocks->rev*.dat files?
322 2013-11-28 16:01:17 <michagogo> cloud|deantrade: IIRC (and I might be mistaken) chainstate is the UTXO set
323 2013-11-28 16:01:38 <deantrade> errr yea thats what I meant, spendable transaction outputs, not "spendable blocks"
324 2013-11-28 16:02:29 <michagogo> cloud|I forget what the rev*.dat is -- maybe rollback information for reorgs?
325 2013-11-28 16:02:39 <Emcy_> yes
326 2013-11-28 16:03:23 <deantrade> does the rev*.dat go back to the genisis block or does it get cleaned out so many blocks back?
327 2013-11-28 16:04:00 <kinlo> it goes back to the genesis block
328 2013-11-28 16:04:16 <kinlo> afaik
329 2013-11-28 16:06:07 <deantrade> In my client I've noted that you only need to know for a given block: all the fully spent transactionhash<->transactionLocation pairs. Right now I'm only keeping back one day's worth of info. I guess if one of my clients was getting blocks from the network some malicious person might send me some fork blocks and screw me up
330 2013-11-28 16:07:34 <kinlo> you're writing your own client?
331 2013-11-28 16:07:51 <deantrade> I wrote my own client... with the recent price increase I've been more motivated to work on it
332 2013-11-28 16:08:11 <kinlo> is it published somewhere?
333 2013-11-28 16:08:17 <deantrade> No, just for me for now
334 2013-11-28 16:08:51 <deantrade> Written in c#. I did a full code review of bitcoin back in the day when I ported c++->c# bitcoin
335 2013-11-28 16:10:36 <deantrade> If I get some more time here to clean up the UI I'll probably publish it to help people keep secure wallets and manage private keys
336 2013-11-28 16:10:49 <Luke-Jr> people shouldn't mess with private keys
337 2013-11-28 16:11:41 <deantrade> How do you split up a wallet into two wallets without messing with private keys?
338 2013-11-28 16:12:19 <Luke-Jr> use case?
339 2013-11-28 16:13:33 <deantrade> Uh, the private key is like the key to being able to spend bitcoins... I like having detailed control of it.
340 2013-11-28 16:13:42 <Luke-Jr> why?
341 2013-11-28 16:14:26 <shamoon> anyone have testnet coins they can send me? miNqzi31FAxPZa3L5MMiYbpvViP3kAaeSU
342 2013-11-28 16:15:55 <deantrade> Luke-Jr: Why did the chicken cross the road?
343 2013-11-28 16:16:16 <Luke-Jr> are you putting yourself on the same level as chicken?
344 2013-11-28 16:16:20 <michagogo> cloud|shamoon: tpfaucet.appspot.com
345 2013-11-28 16:16:29 <shamoon> michagogo|cloud: thanks
346 2013-11-28 16:16:34 <michagogo> cloud|And testnet.mojocoin.com
347 2013-11-28 16:16:38 <shamoon> you the man
348 2013-11-28 16:17:18 <michagogo> cloud|Np
349 2013-11-28 16:17:36 <deantrade> A private key is the most portable format a bitcoin spending thing can take form of. Wallets are propriatary for the software that a person is using. If you want to be able to move bitcoins from one system to another without sending them over the bitcoin network...
350 2013-11-28 16:18:09 <Luke-Jr> deantrade: you're forgetting the wallet seed
351 2013-11-28 16:18:26 <Luke-Jr> deantrade: and passing around private keys is not a viable way to move bitcoins
352 2013-11-28 16:18:27 <diki> phew, I think my parser works now
353 2013-11-28 16:18:57 <diki> funny story, but in trying to grab the previous block hash the fread always moved the cursor one byte ahead
354 2013-11-28 16:19:40 <Luke-Jr> cool story bro
355 2013-11-28 16:20:04 <diki> Well, despite your sarcasm, it was
356 2013-11-28 16:20:49 <diki> I was reading 32 bytes, the cursor should have advanced 32 bytes, but it advanced 33 bytes, on the next cycle reading the next block it would advance even by 1 again and the difference increases
357 2013-11-28 16:22:35 <diki> So, did how is the OSX patch behaving?
358 2013-11-28 16:45:47 <deantrade> Luke-Jr: So whats the current adoptation status of deterministic wallets?
359 2013-11-28 16:49:58 <Emcy_> ===
360 2013-11-28 16:49:58 <Emcy_> Indeed. You've pointed out another of its benefits, well done.
361 2013-11-28 16:49:58 <Emcy_> The problem with the bitcoin system is that it was designed by people who only had IT experience. No economists, people who'd worked for a bank, a Foreign Exchange broker, or governm...
362 2013-11-28 16:50:06 <Emcy_> i love these comments man
363 2013-11-28 16:51:42 <deantrade> Emcy_: Who's criticism, and who's sarcastic response?
364 2013-11-28 16:52:04 <Emcy_> random british proles idk
365 2013-11-28 16:52:04 <Luke-Jr> whose*
366 2013-11-28 16:53:38 <Emcy_> so many tulip comments, i can jsut pictur them sitting back in thier chair and beaming to themselves for being so clever
367 2013-11-28 16:53:42 <deantrade> Luke-Jr: Sorry I primarily read/write by sounds, so when English has silly rules I fail
368 2013-11-28 16:54:28 <Emcy_> dont worry hes american so he doesnt know what english is either
369 2013-11-28 16:54:35 <Luke-Jr> â¦
370 2013-11-28 16:54:51 <diki> Did someone highlight me?
371 2013-11-28 16:54:57 <diki> Perhaps it's someone on my ignore list
372 2013-11-28 16:56:14 <deantrade> Bitcoin just has to increase x171 more in market value and it will eclipse the USD monetary base market cap
373 2013-11-28 16:59:55 <deantrade> *slaps his fingers for talking about non-bitcoin development stuff
374 2013-11-28 17:02:17 <Emcy_> people who log in just to tell us in fine detail just how little they care about the subject at hand.
375 2013-11-28 17:02:58 <Emcy_> at least on youtube the excuse is that most people are automatically logged in anyway
376 2013-11-28 17:06:10 <deantrade> Using pidgin, is there a way to have the client not display entered/left messages?
377 2013-11-28 17:10:45 <Emcy_> is one bitcoin a single unit that can be split into 10 million smaller units or wahtever, or is it 10 million satoshies bundled up
378 2013-11-28 17:11:02 <Emcy_> in the underlying system
379 2013-11-28 17:11:16 <Emcy_> i think its the former due to coin melting?
380 2013-11-28 17:11:20 <deantrade> 1 bitcoin is 10^8 shatoshis
381 2013-11-28 17:11:26 <deantrade> Satoshis
382 2013-11-28 17:11:37 <Emcy_> thats not what i asked
383 2013-11-28 17:11:57 <Belxjander> Emcy_: the base unit is the "Satoshi" which is of value "1" in the BTC system
384 2013-11-28 17:12:24 <Belxjander> however "BitCoin" is referencing 10^8 Satoshi as a singular whole as well
385 2013-11-28 17:12:28 <Emcy_> yes i know, i want to know if a satoshi exists before a btc is melted to make it
386 2013-11-28 17:12:37 <Belxjander> so you can either consider Satoshi as the base or the divisions of BitCoin
387 2013-11-28 17:13:09 <Belxjander> Emcy_: entirely up to you to decide... its the same problem as schrodingers cat in physics
388 2013-11-28 17:13:10 <deantrade> Emcy_... uh, maybe you don't get how transactions work?
389 2013-11-28 17:13:16 <Belxjander> as long as you never open the box it is neither
390 2013-11-28 17:13:18 <kadoban> Emcy_: it's a question of semantics really, it doesn't particularly matter how you want to view it
391 2013-11-28 17:13:45 <Emcy_> i suppose thats true, but its nice to know whats really going on
392 2013-11-28 17:13:48 <kadoban> it's either a number in satoshis, or a number in BTC down to X decimal places
393 2013-11-28 17:13:56 <Emcy_> like when i found out about txin and out
394 2013-11-28 17:14:12 <deantrade> A transaction is like this: add up all of the input bitcoin values, and then the output values must be <= the inputs. (extra input is given to the miner)
395 2013-11-28 17:15:21 <deantrade> ... err the "sum of the output" must be <= the "sum of the input"
396 2013-11-28 17:15:35 <Emcy_> actually i just said does [effect] exist before [cause], so i think i asnwered my own questoin
397 2013-11-28 17:54:44 <bitanarchy> can multibit run over tor?
398 2013-11-28 18:07:17 <TD> no not yet
399 2013-11-28 18:19:06 <shesek> bitanarchy, if you're using linux, you can create a separate user for running multibit and use iptables to route all of that user traffic over tor
400 2013-11-28 18:19:52 <shesek> (might be possible to do something similar with windows, but I'm not using windows so I'm not quite sure)
401 2013-11-28 18:20:06 <Diablo-D3> heh
402 2013-11-28 18:20:18 <Diablo-D3> didnt someone make a socks5 proxy that is a windows network adapter?
403 2013-11-28 18:20:30 <shesek> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TransparentProxy
404 2013-11-28 18:21:06 <TD> we're testing a new network stack for bitcoinj that would support tor
405 2013-11-28 18:21:30 <TD> however there's no build of multibit that uses it yet. as multibit is sort of being rewritten at the moment, i doubt there will be one soon either (unless someone else does it)
406 2013-11-28 19:58:21 <madthanu> I was looking at the $10K bounty bug, and came upon another "bug" that I think affects bitcoin very much
407 2013-11-28 19:59:11 <madthanu> It's essentially LevelDB's issue 187 (https://code.google.com/p/leveldb/issues/detail?id=187)
408 2013-11-28 19:59:42 <madthanu> and unfortunately the pattern with which bitcoin-qt uses LevelDB matches conditions in which that bug will get effected
409 2013-11-28 20:00:29 <madthanu> anyone interested?
410 2013-11-28 20:00:37 <warren> cfields: crap, we have one report where mem barrier fixed it for him while he had corruption with Robert's patch
411 2013-11-28 20:00:50 <warren> cfields: perhaps there really were two or more issues
412 2013-11-28 20:00:59 <warren> wumpus: ^
413 2013-11-28 20:01:14 <phantomcircuit> warren, tbh i suspect there are a number of issues here
414 2013-11-28 20:01:30 <phantomcircuit> it likely works on linux because fsync on one file flushes the entire page cache
415 2013-11-28 20:02:23 <madthanu> hold on a second, im curious, does the "bug" happen with clean shutdowns or not? if it does, why does fsync matter?
416 2013-11-28 20:02:51 <warren> I'm catching up with mail.
417 2013-11-28 20:03:10 <phantomcircuit> madthanu, the bug only happens on os x where fsync is a NOP
418 2013-11-28 20:03:48 <madthanu> phantomcircuit: but the reports said things happen with *clean* shutdowns ... fsync-NOP things matter only with system crashes
419 2013-11-28 20:04:33 <warren> madthanu: read all the threads carefully
420 2013-11-28 20:04:48 <phantomcircuit> madthanu, a clean shutdown doesn't necessarily mean the disks were correctly flushed
421 2013-11-28 20:05:01 <phantomcircuit> and there definitely was a problem with fsync being a NOP
422 2013-11-28 20:05:16 <phantomcircuit> but there are obviously other reliability/consistency issues with leveldb beyond that
423 2013-11-28 20:07:04 <warren> phantomcircuit: flushing happens, just a toilet is involved ...
424 2013-11-28 20:09:23 <warren> madthanu: http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/27/bitcoin-leveldb/
425 2013-11-28 20:14:03 <madthanu> phantomcircuit: feeling a little stupid here, but what do you mean that a clean shutdown doesn't mean disks are flushed? especially with munmap in Mac OSX, or in general?
426 2013-11-28 20:21:27 <madthanu> warren: sorry .... https://code.google.com/p/leveldb/issues/detail?id=187
427 2013-11-28 20:24:19 <warren> madthanu: write to the bitcoin development mailing list
428 2013-11-28 20:24:58 <madthanu> warren: ok!
429 2013-11-28 20:31:30 <warren> phantomcircuit: hmm, OMG5 I accidentally kept the mem barriers patch and added Robert's patch
430 2013-11-28 21:04:01 <michagogo> cloud|Emcy_: In the protocol, all values are in satoshis
431 2013-11-28 21:21:22 <warren> Luke-Jr: have you tested your stable branch in gitian lately?
432 2013-11-28 21:32:00 <jeremias> does bitcoind use zero-conf outputs when generating transactions?
433 2013-11-28 21:32:13 <jeremias> and if it does, is there way to prevent it?
434 2013-11-28 22:11:39 <jouke> jeremias: it does only for transaction that is sends itself, so change-outputs it will spend again.
435 2013-11-28 22:18:25 <shesek> I'm looking for some alpha testers for an m-of-n transactions web interface I'm working on. Anyone wants to give it a try?
436 2013-11-28 22:19:40 <michagogo> cloud|shesek: Unfortunately I don't have my computer at the moment (may be away until after ×× ×××, not sure atm)
437 2013-11-28 22:20:02 <michagogo> cloud|I'd be happy to take a look once I get it returned
438 2013-11-28 22:20:14 <shesek> you don't really need your computer - its running on testnet right now, you can just get some coins sent to it from a faucet
439 2013-11-28 22:20:50 <shesek> and see that it actually sends the transactions on blockexplorer's testnet explorer
440 2013-11-28 22:21:00 <michagogo> cloud|(also, it's 20 past midnight)
441 2013-11-28 22:22:32 <shesek> well, if you have some free time and want to try it out again, give me a shout
442 2013-11-28 22:22:46 <shesek> its quite similar to what you saw a few months back, but a bit more polished and less buggy
443 2013-11-28 22:23:23 <shesek> and I got it working properly on testnet (ditched bc.i's api and replaced it with my own)
444 2013-11-28 22:24:21 <goedgoed> Is there a development roadmap or a list of upcoming features?
445 2013-11-28 22:25:04 <shesek> I'm ironing out some last quirks and getting it ready for a public release, hopefully sometime in the beginning of next week
446 2013-11-28 22:39:52 <Luke-Jr> warren: nope, why?
447 2013-11-28 23:21:39 <warren> gavinandresen: ping
448 2013-11-28 23:22:28 <warren> gavinandresen: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9612e4c0d9730dbdb9971e53c72df17dd97daa2a is this going to master? I don't see a PR. If so it needs patches elsewhere too. want me to PR both?
449 2013-11-28 23:45:38 <warren> around? I think there's a bug in one of the proposed patches for 0.8.6 but I need a sanity check.
450 2013-11-28 23:46:33 <warren> anyone?
451 2013-11-28 23:47:55 <sipa1024> which?
452 2013-11-28 23:49:50 <warren> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9612e4c0d9730dbdb9971e53c72df17dd97daa2a
453 2013-11-28 23:50:38 <warren> I earlier asked gavin if making the max free tx 1,000 bytes will make tx from old clients get stuck. he said no because 1,000 is only on creation, not relay. But this patch seems to allow up to 29KB (DEFAULT_BLOCK_PRIORITY_SIZE - 1000) free tx instead of the old 10KB. I'm not sure that's intended.
454 2013-11-28 23:57:12 <petertodd> warren: I don't see the issue, mode == GMF_SEND implies nBytes < 1000 is the test
455 2013-11-28 23:58:48 <warren> petertodd: Luke-Jr explained it to me, it's equivalent to the old code, the 10KB limit on relay was never enforced
456 2013-11-28 23:58:55 <warren> obscure but not a bug
457 2013-11-28 23:59:05 <petertodd> warren: cool
458 2013-11-28 23:59:48 <Luke-Jr> yeah, it's functionally equivalent
459 2013-11-28 23:59:53 <Luke-Jr> just was really hard to read before
460 2013-11-28 23:59:59 <warren> I would argue the old behavior was a bug