1 2013-12-16 00:11:18 <robonerd> michagogo|cloud
  2 2013-12-16 00:11:29 <michagogo> cloud|robonerd
  3 2013-12-16 00:13:37 <robonerd> we would like to continue to promote #bitcoin-appdev in a responsible way, as there is a demand for it, but given the issue you raised earlier, i wanted to discuss it with you before i continued
  4 2013-12-16 00:13:39 <robonerd> thoughts?
  5 2013-12-16 00:16:22 <michagogo> cloud|Discuss it with *me*?
  6 2013-12-16 00:16:26 <michagogo> cloud|Why?
  7 2013-12-16 00:19:01 <sipa> no worries
  8 2013-12-16 00:19:13 <robonerd> because it's important to us that we kick the channel off well. there is a real community of bitcoin related app devs and we are really liking coming together
  9 2013-12-16 00:19:22 <robonerd> so if you had a concern, i wanted to hear you out
 10 2013-12-16 00:20:10 <michagogo> cloud|robonerd: I was just making sure you were aware of the freenode policies on channel naming
 11 2013-12-16 00:20:55 <robonerd> you know, i wasn't. may you show me the link again pleasre?
 12 2013-12-16 00:20:58 <robonerd> please*
 13 2013-12-16 00:21:13 <michagogo> cloud|freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming, I think
 14 2013-12-16 00:21:33 <michagogo> cloud|(typing from memory, may not be accurate)
 15 2013-12-16 00:21:47 <sipa> iirc, jgarzik owns the bitcoin- namespace
 16 2013-12-16 00:22:09 <michagogo> cloud|sipa: Well, the Bitcoin project does
 17 2013-12-16 00:22:14 <sipa> right
 18 2013-12-16 00:22:16 <michagogo> cloud|with jgarzik as the registered Group Contact
 19 2013-12-16 00:22:42 <robonerd> i should ask him then for approvel i think
 20 2013-12-16 00:22:55 <sipa> robonerd: don't bother :)
 21 2013-12-16 00:23:07 <robonerd> well let me review the policy; moment
 22 2013-12-16 00:24:45 <robonerd> ok so it looks like how it goes on freenode is i should raise the issue with the owner/controller (registered claimant) of the primary namespace
 23 2013-12-16 00:25:53 <michagogo> cloud|Well
 24 2013-12-16 00:26:30 <michagogo> cloud|Officially, according to the policy, #bitcoin-* channels are supposed to be used exclusively for "official" channels of the Bitcoin project
 25 2013-12-16 00:26:42 <michagogo> cloud|In practice, that policy isn't usually followed
 26 2013-12-16 00:26:44 <nsh> the freenode channel naming policy is stupid and if you read it you are stupid
 27 2013-12-16 00:26:55 <nsh> -plato
 28 2013-12-16 00:27:08 <kanzure> hello nsh
 29 2013-12-16 00:27:10 <michagogo> cloud|But it's important to be aware that freenode staff, while they don't enforce the policy, will also provide no assistance in violating it
 30 2013-12-16 00:27:16 <nsh> hi kanzure :)
 31 2013-12-16 00:27:20 <kanzure> nsh: are you okay?
 32 2013-12-16 00:27:25 <nsh> 
ACTION nods

 33 2013-12-16 00:27:30 <kanzure> nsh: pm?
 34 2013-12-16 00:27:40 <nsh> 
ACTION nods

 35 2013-12-16 00:28:07 <michagogo> cloud|For example, if the access list on a #channel that's improperly named gets messed up, or you have trouble there, or whatever, you won't get help from freenode staff to fix it
 36 2013-12-16 00:28:29 <robonerd> well ok i'm also not a stuffy douche, but at the same time it makes sense to me to read the menu outside of a restaurant. and even moreso, i'm a good neighbor, and i don't want to pee in someone's pool if that is what i am indeed doing
 37 2013-12-16 00:29:55 <Ice_Blade> quick question, can anyone briefly tell me what the accepted xxxx (poolsz XXX) in the debug.log means? I've googled it, but can't really find anything.
 38 2013-12-16 00:29:55 <robonerd> so freenode wouldn't help us in #bitcoin-appdev, but could it just take control of the channel from us? because it would be unfair to the community to have a pivotal change made from outside forces
 39 2013-12-16 00:30:01 <robonerd> it should be organic, and self determinant
 40 2013-12-16 00:30:35 <michagogo> cloud|robonerd: Or maybe more accurately, if you need that kind of help with the channel, you'd probably need to ask jgarzin
 41 2013-12-16 00:30:39 <michagogo> cloud|jgarzik*
 42 2013-12-16 00:31:14 <robonerd> yea? that could work. what do we know of him/her?
 43 2013-12-16 00:31:17 <michagogo> cloud|Also, in the future they may decide to start enforcing that policy more rigidly
 44 2013-12-16 00:31:39 <michagogo> cloud|And anything could happen, when it comes to existing channels
 45 2013-12-16 00:32:17 <saracen> I have a suggestion: Everybody stops prefixing or postfixing "bitcoin" to everything bitcoin related. :(
 46 2013-12-16 00:32:36 <michagogo> cloud|(also, the Bitcoin project [jgarzik] would have the ability to step in and take over the channel at any time, for any reason -- for example, if it were decided that such an official channel was wanted)
 47 2013-12-16 00:34:05 <robonerd> saracen but that's categorization. this can be helpful
 48 2013-12-16 00:34:10 <robonerd> ok so yea hm
 49 2013-12-16 00:34:12 <sipa> Ice_Blade: a transaction accepted into the node's memory pool of validated but unconfirmed transactions
 50 2013-12-16 00:34:50 <sipa> Ice_Blade: poolsz is the current size of that pool (in transactions)
 51 2013-12-16 00:35:02 <Ice_Blade> sipa: ok, so is there a certain number of those that are needed for a block or is that just to indicate that the pool is growing?
 52 2013-12-16 00:35:32 <sipa> Ice_Blade: a block can have any or none
 53 2013-12-16 00:35:45 <Ice_Blade> ok, thanks :)
 54 2013-12-16 00:35:48 <sipa> Ice_Blade: miners decide, your memory pool doesn't matter for that
 55 2013-12-16 00:37:42 <saracen> robonerd: Maybe. But, I can't imagine stumbling across your channel without being told about it already. So, really, the name could be anything.
 56 2013-12-16 00:41:18 <robonerd> true
 57 2013-12-16 00:45:32 <robonerd> yea saracen that's a great thought. so what do you think is the most direct name for this? i'm not into naming as much as i am chatting/collabing with other developers on fun projects :P
 58 2013-12-16 00:46:41 <robonerd> also i just asked in #bitcoin-appdev just now: do we want to build a focused community here for those building software/services related to btc only, or any virtual currency? latter option being addressed with the question: could ppl building apps for litecoin overlap with us in a way that /helps/ btc app dev?
 59 2013-12-16 00:46:51 <robonerd> uh, 1 less "just" there heh
 60 2013-12-16 00:47:45 <saracen> robonerd: Could be anything, maybe make it vaguely related to "bitcoin". Or, any of the other crypto currencies if you want to do that. Having said that, this way, you get to claim your own namespace, too
 61 2013-12-16 00:48:01 <saracen> So, you could have, like #256bits, #256bits-litecoin.
 62 2013-12-16 00:48:22 <robonerd> hm yea
 63 2013-12-16 00:49:09 <Ice_Blade> #coindev, #coindev-app, etc
 64 2013-12-16 00:51:39 <michagogo> cloud|
ACTION cringes

 65 2013-12-16 00:52:07 <michagogo> cloud|The dangers of using brainwallet.org for transactions without knowing exactly what you're doing: transaction a2d1e19331f4ea274079c94382560bbb4f32165ed647a33adad651a604e7caa2
 66 2013-12-16 00:53:02 <michagogo> cloud|A gamble of 0.05271705 BTC at bitmillions.com accidentally included a transaction fee of 20.14628295 BTC
 67 2013-12-16 00:53:05 <robonerd> michagogo|cloud any suggestions on what name our community should use ?
 68 2013-12-16 00:53:12 <michagogo> cloud|...which happened to be mined by P2Pool.
 69 2013-12-16 00:53:13 <robonerd> since the current one isn't safe
 70 2013-12-16 00:53:17 <michagogo> cloud|robonerd: No idea, sorry.
 71 2013-12-16 00:58:55 <robonerd> #coindev ?
 72 2013-12-16 01:01:03 <Ice_Blade> robonerd: didn't read the entire conversation, but it was a suggestion to a possible bitcoin-related channelname without actually using bitcoin
 73 2013-12-16 01:01:51 <robonerd>  yea
 74 2013-12-16 01:01:56 <robonerd> what do you think about it i'm asking
 75 2013-12-16 01:02:02 <robonerd> i was already in it, so that might be the one
 76 2013-12-16 01:04:22 <Ice_Blade> if the channel is available it would be a good idea to get the entire #coindev- namespace if possible, then you can just have channels like #coindev-apps for multiwallet apps, or #coindev-bitcoin and -litecoin etc for coin-specific dev talk
 77 2013-12-16 01:04:54 <Ice_Blade> and coindev seems to be pretty guessable (as I came up with it and you apparently did as well)
 78 2013-12-16 01:07:31 <michagogo> cloud|Freenode's group registrations are suspended indefinitely, so you can't do that at the moment
 79 2013-12-16 01:08:14 <Ice_Blade> ah, I forgot they were in the process of modifying their backend systems
 80 2013-12-16 01:08:37 <michagogo> cloud|FSVO "in the process"
 81 2013-12-16 01:09:27 <Ryan52> ne0futur: that was quick! thanks for letting me know!
 82 2013-12-16 01:09:47 <robonerd> a5m0 is thinking we can remain in #bitcoin-appdev. if that's even the best solution, is that the scope we would want in the end? would it be best for the community to center around btc app dev? or app dev for any virtual currency?
 83 2013-12-16 01:16:40 <TD> interesting
 84 2013-12-16 01:17:00 <TD> i tethered my phone to a temporary 8-day unlimited data sim card. it appears that port 80 is blocked and doesn't work. but SSL and IRC are both allowed
 85 2013-12-16 01:17:30 <TD> I can load SSLd websites not but others. i wonder if they're doing packet sniffing and terminating connections that self-identify as non-mobile browsers
 86 2013-12-16 01:17:41 <Ice_Blade> TD 8080 might work for http
 87 2013-12-16 01:18:06 <robonerd> TD why would 80 be blocked?
 88 2013-12-16 01:18:11 <robonerd> some stupid < 1024 port block?
 89 2013-12-16 01:18:36 <TD> no. i'm assuming it's not actually blocked but rather, they do DPI to identify non-mobile browsers and when they see a User-Agent that isn't one they recognize, they drop it
 90 2013-12-16 01:18:39 <TD> not sure.
 91 2013-12-16 01:18:48 <TD> i can't think of any other reason why SSL would work and other stuff wouldn't
 92 2013-12-16 01:19:17 <robonerd> ssl is on a diff port bro
 93 2013-12-16 01:19:19 <robonerd> 443 right?
 94 2013-12-16 01:19:21 <TD> it's an "unlimited" data sim that i paid ~$70 for. so i can imagine they would want to stop people using desktops with it
 95 2013-12-16 01:19:23 <Ice_Blade> correct
 96 2013-12-16 01:19:26 <TD> yeah.
 97 2013-12-16 01:19:35 <TD> but i can browse with my phone :)
 98 2013-12-16 01:19:40 <robonerd> oh yea, so couldn't be a < 1024 ban
 99 2013-12-16 01:19:41 <robonerd> hm
100 2013-12-16 01:19:42 <Ice_Blade> some apps might use ssl for data exchanges
101 2013-12-16 01:19:54 <robonerd> try if 8080 works
102 2013-12-16 01:19:59 <robonerd> if it doesn't i'd be rather surprised
103 2013-12-16 01:21:18 <TD> most websites don't support 8080
104 2013-12-16 01:21:43 <robonerd> really?
105 2013-12-16 01:21:54 <robonerd> i'd think they should support 80[80]
106 2013-12-16 01:22:01 <Ice_Blade> yeah, but a proxy should work
107 2013-12-16 01:22:08 <Ice_Blade> lots of those support 8080
108 2013-12-16 01:22:11 <robonerd> ya try a proxy
109 2013-12-16 01:22:23 <robonerd> and actually try 8080 if you didn't
110 2013-12-16 01:22:26 <robonerd> might get a prize
111 2013-12-16 01:22:51 <robonerd> you know why td? because the only thing better than a prize is a su-prize!
112 2013-12-16 01:22:52 <TD> well i'm only here for another hour. i don't really care.
113 2013-12-16 01:22:59 <TD> heh
114 2013-12-16 01:23:01 <robonerd> on earth?
115 2013-12-16 01:23:11 <Ice_Blade> my condolences ;)
116 2013-12-16 01:23:27 <robonerd> Ice_Blade hey how's your weekend going?
117 2013-12-16 01:23:28 <TD> in america :)
118 2013-12-16 01:23:42 <robonerd> TD then where shall you go?
119 2013-12-16 01:23:54 <TD> back home
120 2013-12-16 01:24:02 <robonerd> heh, k
121 2013-12-16 01:24:09 <robonerd> so Ice_Blade, how's that weekend going HEH
122 2013-12-16 01:24:38 <Ice_Blade> long gone, it's Monday morning here
123 2013-12-16 01:24:46 <Ice_Blade> 02:24 am
124 2013-12-16 01:25:02 <Ice_Blade> 
ACTION should probably get to bed, come to think of it...

125 2013-12-16 01:26:12 <Ice_Blade> but it was nice, slept late, had a party, saw my girlfriend.. can't get much better than that :P
126 2013-12-16 01:27:35 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: wrt that high fee txn, I'd noticed the larger than expected p2pool payout but I'd figured I had just gotten share-lucky. :P interesting that it was due to a huge fee.
127 2013-12-16 01:28:34 <michagogo> cloud|Indeed.
128 2013-12-16 01:28:42 <michagogo> cloud|http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1syu3h/i_lost_all_my_bitcoins_in_an_erroneous/
129 2013-12-16 01:30:45 <robonerd> wow
130 2013-12-16 01:30:47 <robonerd> that is heart breaking
131 2013-12-16 01:31:05 <robonerd> Edit: Turns out I accidentally sent my bitcoins to P2Pool in fees... If anyone knows how I can get in touch with the pool operator at P2Pool I'd really appreciate it.
132 2013-12-16 01:31:10 <robonerd> is p2pool upstanding?
133 2013-12-16 01:31:54 <TD> there is no pool opertor
134 2013-12-16 01:31:58 <TD> that's kind of the point
135 2013-12-16 01:32:12 <robonerd> hm ah
136 2013-12-16 01:32:17 <robonerd> so ... now what?
137 2013-12-16 01:33:55 <michagogo> cloud|robonerd: Now nothing
138 2013-12-16 01:33:58 <TD> he lost the money
139 2013-12-16 01:34:00 <michagogo> cloud|He's out those bitcoins
140 2013-12-16 01:34:02 <TD> brainwallet is a stupid website
141 2013-12-16 01:34:12 <TD> i am sure we asked the guy behind it to shut it down ages ago
142 2013-12-16 01:34:23 <TD> you can't make that kind of mistake with a normal wallet app
143 2013-12-16 01:35:01 <michagogo> cloud|TD: Yeah, some troll in the comments of that reddit post is using this to say that bitcoins are useless and you shouldn't use them and all that
144 2013-12-16 01:35:34 <robonerd> damn
145 2013-12-16 01:35:35 <TD> well the fact is if people can destroy their entire balance by typing a number into the wrong field, then that doesn't reflect well on bitcoin does it? you wouldn't find it easy to make that mistake with a bank
146 2013-12-16 01:35:41 <robonerd> 20k mistake there
147 2013-12-16 01:35:46 <TD> the real question is why was he using that site in the first place?
148 2013-12-16 01:35:52 <TD> i assume because he likes the idea of a brainwallet
149 2013-12-16 01:36:04 <robonerd> i just wrote in #bitcoin-appdev "quality app dev will include features preventing such a thing where possible"
150 2013-12-16 01:36:05 <michagogo> cloud|"I remember that time I accidentally wrote a check for $20,000 over the amount of the bill.
151 2013-12-16 01:36:05 <michagogo> cloud|Oh wait. That only happens with bitcoin. A great leap forward for people everywhere."
152 2013-12-16 01:36:25 <TD> i wish we could somehow discourage people from using it
153 2013-12-16 01:36:28 <robonerd> yep
154 2013-12-16 01:36:32 <michagogo> cloud|TD: I agree, their /#tx page is not good
155 2013-12-16 01:36:47 <TD> the entire site isn't good. they let you come up with your own password
156 2013-12-16 01:37:05 <michagogo> cloud|I mean, it's useful to me personally and I've used it occasionally when away from my computer, or if I need to easily and quickly sweep a privkey
157 2013-12-16 01:37:15 <michagogo> cloud|But it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing
158 2013-12-16 01:37:24 <robonerd> michagogo|cloud what is better than letting ppl provide pw? generating it and showing it, for user to store?
159 2013-12-16 01:37:39 <TD> you can sweep a private key with blockchain.info
160 2013-12-16 01:37:51 <michagogo> cloud|It's essentially createrawtransaction with automatic population of the inputs
161 2013-12-16 01:38:01 <michagogo> cloud|TD: if you have a wallet with them
162 2013-12-16 01:38:14 <TD> you can create a wallet instantly
163 2013-12-16 01:38:44 <michagogo> cloud|Anyway, I don't want to sweep the key into bc.i, I want it to my wallet
164 2013-12-16 01:39:26 <michagogo> cloud|I find it fairly easy to use, for the most part -- but only because I know what I'm doing
165 2013-12-16 01:39:45 <saracen> I think that's a good enough reason for the site to exist
166 2013-12-16 01:39:52 <michagogo> cloud|The problem is that it's right there for unexperienced users to screw up with
167 2013-12-16 01:40:04 <TD> and there are no warnings about how dangerous the site is
168 2013-12-16 01:40:10 <michagogo> cloud|TD: right
169 2013-12-16 01:40:18 <michagogo> cloud|I like the tool, but not the site
170 2013-12-16 01:40:18 <TD> if you're knowledgeable enough to be using the features there, you are knowledgeable enough to do it from the command line
171 2013-12-16 01:40:28 <TD> putting a gui on top if just asking people to shoot themselves in the foot
172 2013-12-16 01:42:38 <michagogo> cloud|Well, it makes a 4-step process (lookup tx outputs, create, sign, send) into a quicker one
173 2013-12-16 01:43:02 <michagogo> cloud|Pretty much a 2-3 step process
174 2013-12-16 01:43:11 <michagogo> cloud|(I mean, it depends on how you count)
175 2013-12-16 01:43:24 <michagogo> cloud|But it's definitely easier and much quicker to use
176 2013-12-16 01:44:17 <gmaxwell> the brainwallet site is bad in a lot of ways, including being attractive enough that its not obvious how dangerous it is.
177 2013-12-16 01:44:27 <gmaxwell> I've seen a lot of otherwise smart people do some really boneheaded things with it.
178 2013-12-16 01:44:54 <gmaxwell> And even given the things it tries to accomplish (some of which are inherently foolish) they could be accomplished in far less dangerous ways.
179 2013-12-16 01:45:31 <michagogo> cloud|gmaxwell: Right, I completely agree
180 2013-12-16 01:46:02 <saracen> Document all of the less dangerous ways and I could find some time to create it :P
181 2013-12-16 04:48:15 <omniden> j #bitcoin-pricetalk
182 2013-12-16 06:49:29 <robonerd> midnightmagic why did you ban me from #bitcoin-bots?
183 2013-12-16 06:49:51 <robonerd> i asked about trading bot work supporting btc and altcoins because there are some trading algo ideas i have
184 2013-12-16 08:02:58 <Lightsword> Has anyone managed to get cgminer working properly on a blackarrow bitfury? I'm not able to get it to hash at all https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer/blob/master/driver-bab.c
185 2013-12-16 09:57:50 <Biodragon> gmaxwell: u here?
186 2013-12-16 10:38:20 <maaku> Lightsword: #bitcoin-mining
187 2013-12-16 11:58:26 <arioBarzan> gmaxwell: In case you have some time, could you look at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script ? I guess possible outputs for OP_EQUALVERIFY are Nothing/False , similar to OP_VERIFY. I do not have an authorized account for editing wiki and it costs 0.01 BTC to get such permission.
188 2013-12-16 12:23:18 <jacob___> hello?
189 2013-12-16 12:26:10 <jacob___> he fellas, http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8g-15plus-plenny11/crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h.html
190 2013-12-16 12:26:32 <jacob___> thats a frekin lot to include for a client, anyway there is standalone implementation?
191 2013-12-16 12:27:44 <wumpus> jacob___: https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1
192 2013-12-16 12:32:17 <jacob___> whats this "GMP_NUMB_BITS" from  gmp (mipr windows)
193 2013-12-16 12:32:20 <jacob___> ^?
194 2013-12-16 12:32:29 <jacob___> thanks wumpus
195 2013-12-16 12:33:08 <jacob___> One last question, is there a native implementation of openssl for windows
196 2013-12-16 12:35:17 <jacob___> i need to port a client to windows,.., and it would be nice if there was an openssl lib (want to use ECDSA from it) from windows like a ready made dll
197 2013-12-16 12:35:42 <jacob___> searching inet openssl seems to be linux exclusive
198 2013-12-16 12:38:07 <jacob___> found it fellas, no need to answer)) http://slproweb.com/products/Win32OpenSSL.html
199 2013-12-16 13:49:42 <michagogo> cloud|Hmm.
200 2013-12-16 13:50:06 <michagogo> cloud|https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YfGKCvtS
201 2013-12-16 13:50:34 <michagogo> cloud|Anyone know what that subver is?
202 2013-12-16 13:55:37 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: my dns seeder
203 2013-12-16 13:55:43 <michagogo> cloud|Aha
204 2013-12-16 13:56:01 <sipa> no idea which instance though
205 2013-12-16 13:57:01 <michagogo> cloud|Ah, so just connecting to see if the node still exists?
206 2013-12-16 13:58:34 <sipa> indeed
207 2013-12-16 13:58:41 <sipa> whether it's reachable, mainly
208 2013-12-16 14:01:42 <michagogo> cloud|So as of git master, you make calls with bitcoin-cli now?
209 2013-12-16 14:01:47 <michagogo> cloud|(rather than bitcoind)
210 2013-12-16 14:03:17 <sipa> no, it's not even satoshi code
211 2013-12-16 14:03:35 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin-seeder
212 2013-12-16 14:03:51 <michagogo> cloud|sipa: not talking about the seeder anymore
213 2013-12-16 14:04:01 <michagogo> cloud|I mean, with bitcoin's git master
214 2013-12-16 14:04:05 <sipa> oh, yes
215 2013-12-16 14:04:12 <sipa> you can still use bitcoind, afaik
216 2013-12-16 14:20:33 <abishek> can i delete an address using json rpc?
217 2013-12-16 14:23:54 <stonecoldpat> abishek: you would just need to remove it from your wallet
218 2013-12-16 14:24:29 <stonecoldpat> abishek: you can't really 'delete an address' - once its been used in network, its recorded there forever (might never be used again, but the address is shown as being used)
219 2013-12-16 14:25:35 <abishek> stonecoldpat, what if the address is not used yet? and how can i list all the addresses on a wallet?
220 2013-12-16 14:27:06 <stonecoldpat> try bitcoind listaccounts
221 2013-12-16 14:27:33 <stonecoldpat> or listaddressgroupings (havent tried that should work)
222 2013-12-16 14:27:49 <stonecoldpat> if its never been used - i wouldnt really worry about it
223 2013-12-16 14:27:54 <stonecoldpat> as it wont have any money associated with it
224 2013-12-16 14:28:46 <abishek> listaccounts only displays accounts that have transactions associated, the rest d'nt show up
225 2013-12-16 14:29:14 <abishek> same applies to listaddressgrouings
226 2013-12-16 14:31:13 <stonecoldpat> your right yeah
227 2013-12-16 14:31:17 <stonecoldpat> then i am not sure sorry
228 2013-12-16 14:34:26 <michagogo> cloud|abishek: Why do you want to delete an address?
229 2013-12-16 14:34:35 <jgarzik> mornin'
230 2013-12-16 14:35:04 <stonecoldpat> michagogo|cloud: in the rare chance 10,000 btc gets sent to it - and he doesnt want access to them
231 2013-12-16 14:35:17 <michagogo> cloud|jgarzik: o/
232 2013-12-16 14:42:52 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: i am told that i can't publish logs for the research/speculation channel without permission from an op
233 2013-12-16 14:42:57 <andytoshi> which means you
234 2013-12-16 14:43:15 <andytoshi> whenever you get a moment, can i have an ack/nak?
235 2013-12-16 15:29:00 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, i basically want to remove all unused address on my wallet that involve no transactions and will never be used.
236 2013-12-16 15:29:17 <michagogo> cloud|abishek: Why?
237 2013-12-16 15:29:52 <helo> abishek: is your wallet currently encrypted?
238 2013-12-16 15:31:55 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, the application that I am working is where people can create their wallets and addresses. I disallow deleting an address if there is a transaction, but allow deletion if there are no transactions. Logically I delete the mapping on the database, but am not sure on how to do it on the wallet
239 2013-12-16 15:32:09 <abishek> helo, yes, the wallet is encrypted
240 2013-12-16 15:32:11 <michagogo> cloud|abishek: You don't need to delete addresses
241 2013-12-16 15:32:12 <michagogo> cloud|ever
242 2013-12-16 15:32:42 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, if the number of addresses on the wallet is large, does is have a problem with performance and indexing?
243 2013-12-16 15:32:51 <michagogo> cloud|How large is large?
244 2013-12-16 15:33:20 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, about 5-6k
245 2013-12-16 15:33:28 <michagogo> cloud|should be fine
246 2013-12-16 15:33:46 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, till about how many addresses do you think it is fine?
247 2013-12-16 15:34:12 <michagogo> cloud|There's no specific threshold
248 2013-12-16 15:34:56 <phantomcircuit> abishek, unless you're running this on a raspberry pi
249 2013-12-16 15:35:03 <abishek> michagogo|cloud, i currently load balance my wallets, but would like to keep a threshold on when to stop creating addresses on a wallet
250 2013-12-16 15:35:14 <wumpus> you really shouldn't allow deletion of keys
251 2013-12-16 15:35:16 <phantomcircuit> you will be able to to tens of thousands
252 2013-12-16 15:35:20 <michagogo> cloud|Give it a try.
253 2013-12-16 15:35:29 <phantomcircuit> currently the only real issue is the time it takes to load the wallet
254 2013-12-16 15:35:37 <michagogo> cloud|Try different numbers and see what works well for you
255 2013-12-16 15:35:44 <phantomcircuit> that will be fixed in a future (hopefully soon) release
256 2013-12-16 15:35:51 <wumpus> it's impossible to guarantee that no one will try to send coins to them in the future
257 2013-12-16 15:36:24 <phantomcircuit> indeed you can safely assume that someone will at somepoint send coins to a "deleted" address
258 2013-12-16 15:36:29 <phantomcircuit> and then bitch and moan at you to fix it
259 2013-12-16 15:36:36 <wumpus> keys are only a few bytes anyway
260 2013-12-16 15:36:39 <wumpus> right
261 2013-12-16 15:36:45 <phantomcircuit> (i say this with quite a bit of experience....)
262 2013-12-16 15:36:58 <abishek> ok
263 2013-12-16 15:37:43 <abishek> my other question was, how to list all the addresses on the wallet? listaccounts and listaddressgroupings only show addresses that have a transaction
264 2013-12-16 15:38:11 <wumpus> there is no way to do that from within bitcoind
265 2013-12-16 15:38:25 <wumpus> tools such as pywallet can list all the keys including the keypool
266 2013-12-16 15:38:35 <phantomcircuit> abishek, if you need to do that then you've done something wrong probably
267 2013-12-16 15:38:40 <wumpus> but there really isn't a good reason to do that usually
268 2013-12-16 15:39:34 <phantomcircuit> abishek, if you're looking for a metric for what the "load" of a wallet is, use the number of transactions
269 2013-12-16 15:39:42 <phantomcircuit> that has the greatest performance impact
270 2013-12-16 15:40:21 <abishek> ok
271 2013-12-16 15:41:18 <abishek> metrics is probably in the next version as I have to maintain the load of the bitcoind daemons across servers. Right now it is more about aggregation of transactions and address on the wallets across multiple servers.
272 2013-12-16 15:42:04 <phantomcircuit> abishek, i would be genuinely surprised if you actually needed that
273 2013-12-16 15:42:11 <phantomcircuit> abishek, what is this for?