1 2013-12-20 00:00:02 <gmaxwell> I'm happy people are learning, but ... you know, no one should speak in this channel who hasn't read the bitcoin whitepaper unless they're reporting a criticial bug.
2 2013-12-20 00:00:07 <sipa> and assume that the longest valid chain has in fact valid transactions
3 2013-12-20 00:00:54 <uiop> sipa: ah, ok
4 2013-12-20 00:01:16 <gmaxwell> which is similar to just trusting some signed snapshot except no one person can forge itâ it takes a majority of hashpower to lie in that model.
5 2013-12-20 00:01:46 <gmaxwell> it's still less secure than full bitcoin, but way better than some terrible trust-a-guy (whom you have on reason to trust and no competence to evaluate) model.
6 2013-12-20 00:03:07 <paulo_> ACTION notes the words "internet muckymuck"
7 2013-12-20 00:03:11 <uiop> what percent of the total sizeof(blockchain) is the transaction data?
8 2013-12-20 00:03:50 <gmaxwell> â99.99999%
9 2013-12-20 00:04:19 <uiop> ah, gotcha.
10 2013-12-20 00:04:20 <gribble> 22351626
11 2013-12-20 00:04:20 <sipa> ;;calc [blocks]*81
12 2013-12-20 00:04:42 <sipa> ^- how many bytes you need to download to just get the block headers (=blocks excluding transactions)
13 2013-12-20 00:05:22 <sipa> so it's more like 99.8%
14 2013-12-20 00:06:46 <uiop> nice, that's much more reasonable
15 2013-12-20 00:07:01 <sipa> it's what multibit and bitcoin wallet for android do, for example
16 2013-12-20 00:07:59 <gmaxwell> sipa: ah, I was just assuming 80/1000000 but even there my figure was a little high. :P
17 2013-12-20 00:10:14 <wizkid057> wonder what the odds are of there being an address collision in my lifetime
18 2013-12-20 00:11:34 <sipa> 0
19 2013-12-20 00:11:48 <sipa> (assuming good RNGs to generate them)
20 2013-12-20 00:11:54 <CodeShark> I know this isn't the Qt channel, but someone in here might have the answer. I'm getting a QWidget: repaint: Recursive repaint detected error, caused by a call to label->setText. I'm calling it from within a slot connected to a signal which I am emitting from a non-ui thread.
21 2013-12-20 00:12:02 <kuzetsa> no, 100% / it has already happened: there have already been many many collisions as a result of some implementations which used poor key generation
22 2013-12-20 00:12:03 <wizkid057> sipa: i assume thats rounded down from some very small number :P
23 2013-12-20 00:12:07 <uiop> wizkid057: an amusing comment from git reads:
24 2013-12-20 00:12:10 <uiop> wizkid057: /* Heh, we found SHA-1 collisions between different kind of objects */
25 2013-12-20 00:12:33 <sipa> uiop: ???
26 2013-12-20 00:12:45 <uiop> sipa: <wizkid057> wonder what the odds are of there being an address collision in my lifetime
27 2013-12-20 00:12:55 <sipa> where did you read that?
28 2013-12-20 00:13:42 <uiop> sipa: git/match-trees.c (it's in an "impossible" (control-flow) branch)
29 2013-12-20 00:15:11 <gmaxwell> wizkid057: if you have a sha-1 collision you can go collect 2 BTC.
30 2013-12-20 00:15:26 <wizkid057> !
31 2013-12-20 00:15:51 <gmaxwell> From the network. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293382.0 2.47 BTC in fact.
32 2013-12-20 00:17:53 <nsh> any collision?
33 2013-12-20 00:18:08 <sipa> gmaxwell: you'd need some deal with a miner with significant hash power too..
34 2013-12-20 00:18:32 <berndj> nsh, any collision between two strings that themselves aren't equal
35 2013-12-20 00:18:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: well chances are you could pull it off without and no one would rob you.
36 2013-12-20 00:18:37 <nsh> damnit
37 2013-12-20 00:18:53 <gmaxwell> nsh: petertodd's mamma didn't raise no fool.
38 2013-12-20 00:18:55 <nsh> nah, but that's some neat p2sh examples
39 2013-12-20 00:18:59 <nsh> ACTION smiles
40 2013-12-20 00:19:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: maybe he gas a stupid brother?
41 2013-12-20 00:19:21 <sipa> *has
42 2013-12-20 00:19:55 <nsh> or maybe she raised a fool to wisdom
43 2013-12-20 00:20:05 <sipa> wise words
44 2013-12-20 00:20:16 <gmaxwell> nsh: the data also has to be small enough to fit into a transaction too.
45 2013-12-20 00:20:26 <nsh> right
46 2013-12-20 00:21:17 <nsh> "All of Satoshi's coins are a reward for breaking the ECDSA, since they are not protected by the RIPEMD160 hash function." hmmm
47 2013-12-20 00:21:48 <michagogo> cloud|01:44:28 <gmaxwell> a 'pausenode' that put everything in a consistent state for copying wouldn't be hard. perhaps a techsupport footgun when people call it and then don't turn it off. :P
48 2013-12-20 00:21:48 <michagogo> cloud|D×××,× I ×××× ××©× ××ש×?
49 2013-12-20 00:21:56 <michagogo> cloud|uh
50 2013-12-20 00:21:57 <gmaxwell> that has nothing to do with "satoshi", I wish people wouldn't fixate needlessly on that, all of the direct mined by bitcoind blocks that haven't been moved are pay to pubkey.
51 2013-12-20 00:22:01 <michagogo> cloud|Didn't I just say that?
52 2013-12-20 00:22:53 <michagogo> cloud|Hmm, something just occurred to me. What happens if you point, say, bfgminer at a regtest node?
53 2013-12-20 00:23:10 <Luke-Jr> not much I'd think
54 2013-12-20 00:23:21 <gmaxwell> if it didn't just break, it still wouldn't mine at diff <1.
55 2013-12-20 00:23:30 <warren> "Satoshi's early public keys aren't protected by anything." something changed?
56 2013-12-20 00:23:40 <Luke-Jr> nsh: stealing someone's coins by breaking ECDSA is not the same as a reward specifically for breaking something
57 2013-12-20 00:23:45 <michagogo> cloud|warren: pay-to-publey-hash
58 2013-12-20 00:23:48 <michagogo> cloud|pubkey*
59 2013-12-20 00:23:52 <gmaxwell> warren: I just explained it.
60 2013-12-20 00:23:54 <Luke-Jr> warren: not really.
61 2013-12-20 00:23:56 <nsh> Luke-Jr, right
62 2013-12-20 00:24:10 <gmaxwell> the internal miner pays to pubkey. (even now)
63 2013-12-20 00:24:17 <warren> oh
64 2013-12-20 00:26:20 <gmaxwell> uiop: fwiw that code is for dealing with a sha-1 collision should one happen, it's not saying the developers there found one. :(
65 2013-12-20 00:26:37 <gmaxwell> it should probably be agumented with code to go collect 2.4 BTC. :P
66 2013-12-20 00:26:58 <uiop> gmaxwell: i know this :)
67 2013-12-20 00:27:42 <gmaxwell> oh, well you caused me to waste a couple minutes looking.
68 2013-12-20 00:27:52 <Luke-Jr> is there a plugin for git to make vanity commits yet?
69 2013-12-20 00:28:46 <michagogo> cloud|Luke-Jr: I think I've seen one, yeah
70 2013-12-20 00:29:01 <michagogo> cloud|a post-commit hook that suggests a `git commit --amend` or something
71 2013-12-20 00:29:15 <Luke-Jr> hmm
72 2013-12-20 00:29:30 <michagogo> cloud|https://github.com/vog/beautify_git_hash
73 2013-12-20 00:29:40 <uiop> gmaxwell: that part adds to the comment's charm. if that code ever does/did execute, none would probably even notice, a tree would fall silently in the woods.
74 2013-12-20 00:30:54 <uiop> ...and the programmer says "Heh"
75 2013-12-20 00:31:05 <uiop> :)
76 2013-12-20 00:36:06 <nsh> i would argue that the code should record the collision somehow, if only for historical purposes
77 2013-12-20 00:36:51 <gmaxwell> should probably just abort and tell you that your cpu has failed.
78 2013-12-20 00:37:19 <nsh> ACTION has a flashback to the 100 billion names of god...
79 2013-12-20 00:37:37 <nsh> *9 billion
80 2013-12-20 00:38:20 <nsh> (it's such a quaintly low number for arthur c clark to have picked, in retrospect)
81 2013-12-20 01:17:33 <BlueMatt> nsh: if you did break ecdsa and stole all of satoshi's coins, they would now be worthless....not a very good reward
82 2013-12-20 01:18:21 <CodeShark> if I broke ecdsa, I'd probably set my sights on bigger targets :p
83 2013-12-20 01:18:57 <nsh> BlueMatt, sometimes making things worthless is its own reward :)
84 2013-12-20 01:21:00 <CodeShark> if anyone broke ecdsa and that information became public, all existing bitcoins (as well as alt coins and ripple xrp) would become worthless :p
85 2013-12-20 01:21:12 <CodeShark> whether you used it to steal them or not
86 2013-12-20 01:41:31 <deanclkclk> anyone use java restTemplate to communicate with bitcoind json-rpc?
87 2013-12-20 01:56:25 <deanclkclk> anyone knows how to use java restTemplate with bitcoin json-rpc?
88 2013-12-20 01:56:51 <deanclkclk> is it a case that I have to send the credentials for each json-rpc request?
89 2013-12-20 01:56:53 <deanclkclk> anyone?
90 2013-12-20 02:10:06 <maaku> deanclkclk: that's more of a java restTemplate question
91 2013-12-20 02:10:40 <da2ce7> is there a change password and start using new address feature for bitcoin-qt?
92 2013-12-20 02:11:07 <maaku> da2ce7: change password, yes, "start using new address" <-- what do you mean?
93 2013-12-20 02:11:32 <maaku> bitcoin-qt doesn't reuse addresses
94 2013-12-20 02:11:39 <da2ce7> well, instead of using the address in your key-pool, archive all of those ones, and generate new ones
95 2013-12-20 02:11:49 <da2ce7> (and, of-course, you will need to make a new backup)
96 2013-12-20 02:12:10 <maaku> da2ce7: no there's not. but why would you need to do that?
97 2013-12-20 02:12:48 <da2ce7> maaku, in case you think that your old password isn't very good and want to replace it with a better one.
98 2013-12-20 02:13:02 <da2ce7> (and want to invalidate the old wallet)
99 2013-12-20 02:13:08 <maaku> no, i mean the flush your keypool thing
100 2013-12-20 02:13:54 <da2ce7> so, if you change your password, it still takes 100 tx, by default, before it takes effect.
101 2013-12-20 02:14:09 <da2ce7> (since the old backups have the same key-pull)
102 2013-12-20 02:14:20 <maaku> no it takes effect immediately...
103 2013-12-20 02:14:29 <maaku> the encryption is local
104 2013-12-20 02:14:45 <maaku> it just decrypts with the old password, encrypts with the new
105 2013-12-20 02:14:56 <maaku> if you've exposed your (encrypted) wallet, and you're worried about your password being guessed, then *all* your keys should be considered compromised
106 2013-12-20 02:15:09 <maaku> sweep the entire wallet (not just keypool) and start over
107 2013-12-20 02:15:30 <da2ce7> yes... this is the issue, yes, so when your change your password, it should archive all the old address, and generate new ones.
108 2013-12-20 02:16:07 <da2ce7> (of course you don't get rid of old addresses, what happens if somebody sends coins to an old address!?)
109 2013-12-20 02:16:46 <da2ce7> so the same process, should be an option, when you first create a password, for when you change your password.
110 2013-12-20 02:16:51 <maaku> da2ce7: I don't think that's really the threat model meant for changing passwords
111 2013-12-20 02:16:57 <maaku> in that case you need a wallet sweeping tool
112 2013-12-20 02:17:02 <maaku> which bitcoin-qt does not do
113 2013-12-20 02:17:21 <da2ce7> maaku: sure, but at-least we can do the same thing as when we create a password for the first time.
114 2013-12-20 02:17:37 <da2ce7> archive the old key-pool and generate new keys.
115 2013-12-20 02:23:19 <da2ce7> then display a big-fat-warning. "make sure you make a new backup of your wallet! backups with old password are no-longer current!!"
116 2013-12-20 02:24:55 <alex_fun> I got an idea, what if people trade private key to the address instead of coins directly? that would ensure currency stays anon
117 2013-12-20 02:25:26 <alex_fun> at the moment few people use new ip new cookies mac wallet tech
118 2013-12-20 02:25:37 <alex_fun> trading in keys could really simplify it
119 2013-12-20 02:26:19 <alex_fun> so coins stay with same key aka wallet
120 2013-12-20 02:26:43 <da2ce7> alex_fun, sure except now you have two people who control the coin instead of one.
121 2013-12-20 02:27:43 <alex_fun> da2ce7 yes thats true, a bit of a hole in the idea
122 2013-12-20 02:28:35 <da2ce7> alex_fun: with trusted computing it is possible. :P
123 2013-12-20 02:28:57 <da2ce7> *within degrees of certainty.
124 2013-12-20 02:29:00 <alex_fun> what about some services that uses web wallet plus password, and u trade password, aka u get cash and seller then changes passwd
125 2013-12-20 02:29:04 <alex_fun> da2ce7 how?
126 2013-12-20 02:29:19 <alex_fun> I feel once coin is more anon its so much bettere
127 2013-12-20 02:30:05 <da2ce7> alex_fun: well you generate a key, (except the trusted computer maintains control of it). Then you setup a perfect-forward security connection between the two trusted computers; and transfer the key.
128 2013-12-20 02:30:30 <da2ce7> alex_fun: since you can never access the key itself, it can be secure.
129 2013-12-20 02:32:55 <alex_fun> nice
130 2013-12-20 02:33:03 <alex_fun> is there servi ce like that
131 2013-12-20 02:33:17 <da2ce7> alex_fun: not yet, but prob oneday.
132 2013-12-20 02:33:43 <alex_fun> I think its great idea
133 2013-12-20 02:33:47 <alex_fun> and link exchange into it
134 2013-12-20 02:33:48 <alex_fun> :D
135 2013-12-20 02:33:48 <da2ce7> it requres somebody to program a TC chip (or even make a new one) that supports bitcoin.
136 2013-12-20 02:33:58 <alex_fun> what is TC?
137 2013-12-20 02:34:09 <da2ce7> trusted computing.
138 2013-12-20 02:34:31 <da2ce7> you know... the TPM in your computer has a TC part.
139 2013-12-20 02:35:41 <alex_fun> ok
140 2013-12-20 02:35:58 <alex_fun> what is some service that offers encryption in wallet can be escrow?
141 2013-12-20 02:36:37 <alex_fun> I think futher anon allows people to open nice web services
142 2013-12-20 02:36:49 <alex_fun> with otherwise they may not risk to provide
143 2013-12-20 02:36:58 <alex_fun> like online poker in usa :D
144 2013-12-20 03:29:32 <monolithik> interesting paper on using BTC micropayments in the Tor network: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~kubitron/courses/cs262a-F13/projects/reports/project22_report.pdf
145 2013-12-20 03:33:39 <BlueMatt> monolithik: huh?
146 2013-12-20 03:33:49 <BlueMatt> they wrote a paper on a previously-implemented protocol
147 2013-12-20 03:33:59 <BlueMatt> without mentioning the original implementation...
148 2013-12-20 03:34:17 <BlueMatt> and then added it to tor
149 2013-12-20 03:34:58 <monolithik> yeah, the micropayment scheme is identitcal to the one on section 7 of the bitcoin wiki contracts page.
150 2013-12-20 03:35:04 <BlueMatt> the entire section on micropayments is clear plagiarism of TD's work
151 2013-12-20 03:35:43 <monolithik> disclaimer, this isn't my work, just something I found
152 2013-12-20 03:36:53 <BlueMatt> its some paper these guys wrote for the graduate computer architecture course...
153 2013-12-20 03:37:13 <BlueMatt> ACTION ponders emailing their professor to make sure they get shit for blatant plagiarism...
154 2013-12-20 03:39:23 <BlueMatt> monolithik: ofc, I do find the tor usage interesting...the fact that it was such a small change to tor is cool
155 2013-12-20 03:39:34 <BlueMatt> and their benchmarking to show it possible is awesome
156 2013-12-20 03:39:59 <gmaxwell> a lot of people think they only have to credit other work if it was another academic paper... often they get away with it.
157 2013-12-20 03:40:54 <gmaxwell> some people working at {large cellphone maker} ripped off one of my audio coding papers and even copied the graphs! I haven't seen anything that crazy in bitcoin space yet.
158 2013-12-20 03:41:30 <BlueMatt> well, this is kinda close...
159 2013-12-20 03:41:37 <BlueMatt> at least they did do something
160 2013-12-20 03:43:07 <alex_fun> :)
161 2013-12-20 03:43:11 <monolithik> yeah. They definitely need to cite the bitcoin wiki and the implementation in bitcoinJ. But the paper seems pretty rough right now, there were a few typos, and the references list is rather slim in general.
162 2013-12-20 03:43:37 <BlueMatt> nope, the link to it lists it as "Final Report"
163 2013-12-20 03:43:42 <BlueMatt> its not for publishing, looks like
164 2013-12-20 04:01:55 <andytoshi> BlueMatt: looks like a class paper rather than an academic work
165 2013-12-20 04:02:05 <andytoshi> so it is not only plagiarism, but cheating <.<
166 2013-12-20 04:02:08 <BlueMatt> yup, it is
167 2013-12-20 04:02:16 <BlueMatt> yup
168 2013-12-20 04:03:34 <andytoshi> i have half a mind to email one of the profs..
169 2013-12-20 04:03:47 <BlueMatt> ACTION might have already done that...
170 2013-12-20 04:03:58 <andytoshi> ok, thanks
171 2013-12-20 04:05:13 <andytoshi> i would feel somewhat bad, they could be kicked out of school for this
172 2013-12-20 04:05:38 <andytoshi> which is unfortunate, i don't think i -should- feel bad
173 2013-12-20 04:05:55 <andytoshi> but it's still hard to pull the trigger
174 2013-12-20 04:06:24 <BlueMatt> yea, I probably wouldnt have, had it not been mike's protocol and my/mike's implementation that they failed to credit
175 2013-12-20 04:08:18 <BlueMatt> and its just excessive, they could easily have done just the tor analysis and maybe extended it to a few other protocols and not had to cheat
176 2013-12-20 04:09:55 <monolithik> yeah I feel a bit bad now since I found the paper (I was thinking about taking that class so I looked at the projects)
177 2013-12-20 04:10:26 <monolithik> but I guess cheating is cheating.
178 2013-12-20 04:11:08 <BlueMatt> cheating is one thing, basing half your final paper on rewriting other's work is quite another
179 2013-12-20 04:13:09 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: don't feel bad, I've reported people for plagerism and misconduct worse then this and just had a department head argue with me. It's unlikely any negative conduct will come of it.
180 2013-12-20 04:13:28 <gmaxwell> er s/conduct/consequences/
181 2013-12-20 04:14:56 <gmaxwell> Schools are weird. They make plagerism a capital crime, but then seem to enforce dealing with it terriblyâ perhaps partially because they've exagerated the seriousness so substantially that they find they need to look the other way to avoid dumb outcomes.
182 2013-12-20 04:15:17 <BlueMatt> thats exactly why
183 2013-12-20 04:15:36 <deego> heh, I can attest to gmaxwell's experience. A full *professor* copied our paper - that he reviewed - near-verbatim and published it . The best we could do was get it removed, with a very whitewashed plagiarism statement.
184 2013-12-20 04:16:26 <phantomcircuit> deego, send them a DMCA take down notice
185 2013-12-20 04:16:29 <phantomcircuit> lololol
186 2013-12-20 04:16:31 <deego> :)
187 2013-12-20 04:19:06 <alex_fun> :)))
188 2013-12-20 04:19:16 <alex_fun> they need simple mixer
189 2013-12-20 04:19:23 <alex_fun> to rewrite it a bit
190 2013-12-20 04:19:31 <deego> of course, plagiarism != copyright violation, but phantomcircuit's point still stands :)
191 2013-12-20 04:19:47 <alex_fun> I am php now I going to print myself a diploma
192 2013-12-20 04:19:48 <deego> Plagiarism is probably not even illegal.
193 2013-12-20 04:19:50 <alex_fun> :D
194 2013-12-20 04:19:53 <gmaxwell> yea, though 'copied' seemed to suggest copyright violation.
195 2013-12-20 04:20:05 <alex_fun> copies everything haha
196 2013-12-20 04:20:49 <gmaxwell> deego: no, it's not (except in so far as it's grevious enough to create copyright infringement). Though it's funny to talk to people who've spent too much time in close proximity to academia and they really actually believe its unlawful.
197 2013-12-20 04:21:13 <deego> ^^^
198 2013-12-20 04:21:25 <gmaxwell> (or, lol, when their unlawfulness definition of plagerism even extends to minutia about citation standard)
199 2013-12-20 04:22:07 <deego> Yeah, that anal-ly broad interpretation of copyright and plagiarism truly sucks. :)
200 2013-12-20 04:22:26 <gmaxwell> Sadly, too many people fix their definition of responsible, ethical conduct to lawfulness. Plagerism is lawful, but it lame and just not good for the intellectual advancement of man. But lots of terrible things are perfectly lawful.
201 2013-12-20 04:23:23 <deego> I wish people recognized that lawful!=ethical. Then, we can stop making stupid laws. And, telemarketers can stop telling us "but, it's legal!"
202 2013-12-20 04:24:15 <nsh> give me but an inequality large enough, and i shall derive the world
203 2013-12-20 04:24:51 <nsh> (i wonder if anyone asked archimedes what he was intending to use as a fulcrum...)
204 2013-12-20 04:25:08 <deego> nsh: Ackerman(1000)>1?
205 2013-12-20 04:25:16 <nsh> :)
206 2013-12-20 04:26:35 <deego> nsh: Interstellar gas :)
207 2013-12-20 04:26:51 <nsh> dunno, it's a bit squidgy...
208 2013-12-20 04:39:32 <Emcy> 30
209 2013-12-20 04:39:54 <Emcy> 30
210 2013-12-20 05:56:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: your graphs are off the charts again, estimate is >10PH/s now.
211 2013-12-20 05:57:23 <robonerd> ?
212 2013-12-20 05:58:25 <andytoshi> haha, wow
213 2013-12-20 06:02:46 <gmaxwell> robonerd: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png he manually sets the ranges, which makes them stable across reloads, but they go off the charts from time to time.
214 2013-12-20 06:02:50 <gmaxwell> pretty often recently.
215 2013-12-20 06:05:03 <monolithik> is anyone using announce/commit sacrifices?
216 2013-12-20 06:05:39 <Emcy> gmaxwell thats gonna be the biggest diff jump yet
217 2013-12-20 06:05:41 <robonerd> commit sacrifices?
218 2013-12-20 06:05:49 <robonerd> wtf are you talking about weirdo
219 2013-12-20 06:06:04 <monolithik> for creating SINs(https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1)
220 2013-12-20 06:06:14 <robonerd> wtf
221 2013-12-20 06:06:16 <BlueMatt> monolithik: there's an implementation on that link
222 2013-12-20 06:07:15 <monolithik> yeah I saw that. Trying to run with the DHT idea mentioned in the future work part.
223 2013-12-20 06:29:41 <Godzilla123> Hi, does coin control make sense even if there is only one address in the wallet?
224 2013-12-20 06:32:22 <Godzilla123> I mean should I go to the trouble of implementing coin control in a wallet that always contains only one address (private key)
225 2013-12-20 08:40:48 <petertodd> gavinandresen: congrats on getting your OTP multisig wallet idea implemented: http://www.coindesk.com/bitgo-safe-aims-secure-bitcoin-wallets-multi-signature-transactions/
226 2013-12-20 08:41:37 <petertodd> gavinandresen: be nice if they weren't re-using addresses, but otherwise I gave them a try and the service works well
227 2013-12-20 10:52:20 <wumpus> abishek: with this you can run bitcoind without RPC server https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3449
228 2013-12-20 10:53:25 <abishek> wumpus, i will wait for that to be merged, thnx
229 2013-12-20 10:59:25 <michagogo> cloud|abishek: you could merge it yourself :-p
230 2013-12-20 10:59:47 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: how do you shut it down? Sift erm?
231 2013-12-20 10:59:54 <michagogo> cloud|SIGTERM*
232 2013-12-20 11:01:13 <abishek> michagogo, i would like to stay with the nobuggy releases. I am sure there is a review process bitcoin does before merging, My app is right now moving into production, wouldn;t want to disturb it now
233 2013-12-20 11:03:36 <michagogo> cloud|abishek: you know, you can just review the code yourself
234 2013-12-20 11:23:06 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: SIGINT will do
235 2013-12-20 11:23:24 <wumpus> abishek: waiting doesn't help in this case, if no one tests it, it will never be merged
236 2013-12-20 11:23:44 <abishek> ok, let me look at it then
237 2013-12-20 11:25:12 <wumpus> abishek: and I it looks trivial to backport it to the 0.8 codebase
238 2013-12-20 11:28:36 <abishek> how do i get the private and public key of the wallet?
239 2013-12-20 11:31:21 <wumpus> a wallet contains many private keys and associated public keys
240 2013-12-20 11:36:04 <wumpus> usually if you're trying to get at specific keys you're doing something very dangerous
241 2013-12-20 11:41:18 <abishek> wumpus, I am trying to make a offline backup of the airgap system, so am trying to dump all the addresses' private key and clear the private keys.
242 2013-12-20 11:58:26 <wumpus> abishek: you can dump all the private keys from a wallet.dat using a script such as jackjack's pywallet
243 2013-12-20 11:58:43 <sipa> or using git head's dumpwallet rpc
244 2013-12-20 11:59:35 <wumpus> abishek: but be careful, doing anything such as sending or creating a new receiving address adds a new key, so you do need to keep the backup up to date once in a while if you actively use it
245 2013-12-20 12:01:13 <abishek> wumpus, it is for the airgap system, once I dump the keys, I remove the wallet, so I think I will be good in that case
246 2013-12-20 12:05:02 <xeroc> are there any plans adding deterministic wallets to bitcoin-qt?
247 2013-12-20 12:05:12 <xeroc> thats bit32 if i recall correctly
248 2013-12-20 12:05:19 <xeroc> s/bit/bip/
249 2013-12-20 13:15:19 <wumpus> xeroc: plans, sure, but I don't think it will be in any time soon; I suggest using another wallet if you want deterministic wallet support
250 2013-12-20 13:19:09 <Luke-Jr> Armory has excellent support I think
251 2013-12-20 13:32:35 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yep
252 2013-12-20 14:15:30 <mrkent> how does bitcoin find peers?
253 2013-12-20 14:16:21 <kinlo> mrkent: there are many ways, basicly, peers advertise other peers and bitcoin keeps a list of known peers in a data file for usage between restarts
254 2013-12-20 14:16:43 <kinlo> if it doesn't have any list, it uses dns seeds or a built in list if dns is notw orking
255 2013-12-20 14:20:17 <mrkent> kinlo, I see. Is this prone to attack using fake peers?
256 2013-12-20 14:20:42 <kinlo> how would you attack this?
257 2013-12-20 14:21:01 <mrkent> like say NSA has many peers and I am only connected to NSA peers
258 2013-12-20 14:21:09 <kinlo> the only valid attack would be to starve the client, make sure it cannot connect to a node that is connected to the real peers
259 2013-12-20 14:21:10 <mrkent> they broadcast to me fake inof
260 2013-12-20 14:21:18 <kinlo> you'd soon see that
261 2013-12-20 14:21:29 <kinlo> clients are full validating, you'd lag behind on blocks
262 2013-12-20 14:22:05 <mrkent> kinlo, meaning they arn't now?
263 2013-12-20 14:22:14 <kinlo> ?
264 2013-12-20 14:22:31 <mrkent> what did u mean by you'd soon see that
265 2013-12-20 14:23:14 <kinlo> mrkent: your client wouldn't be synced with the main network
266 2013-12-20 14:23:31 <kinlo> so you wouldn't see your coins
267 2013-12-20 14:25:19 <mrkent> i see
268 2013-12-20 14:25:57 <mrkent> but this could in theory be used for a double spend attack?
269 2013-12-20 14:27:04 <gmaxwell> mrkent: This is a #bitcoin question.
270 2013-12-20 15:13:34 <Joric> hey
271 2013-12-20 15:18:56 <Joric> MagicalTux, can you please remove 5KJvsngHeMpm884wtkJNzQGaCErckhHJBGFsvd3VyK5qMZXj3hS from my account? it spams a lot
272 2013-12-20 15:23:56 <Joric> i have no idea who started to exploit that 'correct horse battery staple' thing but it consumes a lot of space ("2127 pages, 106320 results" in my fundings tab)
273 2013-12-20 15:25:30 <Joric> i hereby give my permission and shit
274 2013-12-20 15:28:20 <wumpus> this is not mtgox support :/
275 2013-12-20 15:28:47 <Joric> he seems busy all the time
276 2013-12-20 15:33:33 <Joric> mtgox swiping bot seems rather effective i got most of funds that were sent to that address (3-4 btc i guess)
277 2013-12-20 15:33:34 <pierre`> Joric: maybe he is
278 2013-12-20 15:34:38 <Joric> well, so please shut it down until it consumes a whole blockchain =)
279 2013-12-20 16:20:00 <Joric> why do you guys promote coinbase? isn't it the exact opposite of the very essence of bitcoin
280 2013-12-20 16:20:32 <sipa> who promotes coinbase?
281 2013-12-20 16:21:05 <Joric> sipa, it's right there http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
282 2013-12-20 16:22:27 <sipa> ah
283 2013-12-20 16:22:55 <sipa> well, i've stopped following discussions about the site
284 2013-12-20 16:23:08 <sipa> but i think the essence of bitcoin is being able to choose whom to trust - potentially nobody
285 2013-12-20 16:23:26 <Joric> it's huge, and just got another 25m investment
286 2013-12-20 16:23:33 <sipa> there's a warning
287 2013-12-20 17:52:36 <trainhappy> when building bitcoin from the master, I get this error in qt5 "invalid numeric argument: /Wextra"
288 2013-12-20 18:02:47 <helo> i didn't know qt5 was supported
289 2013-12-20 18:03:07 <sipa> it's not
290 2013-12-20 18:03:11 <sipa> (but very soon will be)
291 2013-12-20 18:05:20 <phantomcircuit> sipa, need to rescale the network hashrate graphs again
292 2013-12-20 18:07:50 <sipa> grrr
293 2013-12-20 18:07:59 <sipa> peepz, can you stop mining for a while?
294 2013-12-20 18:08:24 <warren> yes sir
295 2013-12-20 18:11:32 <sipa> if every hash was worth a satoshi, we'd mine all coins five times per second
296 2013-12-20 18:48:59 <Alina-malina> There are ~1.^48 possible bitcoin addresses right?
297 2013-12-20 18:49:58 <andytoshi> Alina-malina: yes, 2^160
298 2013-12-20 18:50:11 <Alina-malina> ok, what will happen if they all finished?
299 2013-12-20 18:50:39 <andytoshi> one sec, i have a pdf about the size of these numbers :)
300 2013-12-20 18:51:01 <andytoshi> http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-birthday.pdf section 3
301 2013-12-20 18:52:11 <Alina-malina> ok thank you so what will happen when 10^25 collision happens?
302 2013-12-20 18:52:17 <Alina-malina> will the system be paralized?
303 2013-12-20 18:53:54 <andytoshi> (a) no, it won't matter, as discussed in that section; (b) no, it will take an expected 3200 years to find this collision even if the entire mining network switches to address-colliding (the paper says 127000 but the mining community is much stronger now), (c) this is a #bitcoin question, not on topic here
304 2013-12-20 18:54:46 <Alina-malina> oh thank you so much, i read that part, one more question please
305 2013-12-20 18:55:12 <Alina-malina> I generate an address that is connected to my wallet, can i extract that wallet and give to someone else? just the address only?
306 2013-12-20 18:55:49 <maaku> Alina-malina: thats' not safe to do
307 2013-12-20 18:56:03 <Alina-malina> for givver or taker?
308 2013-12-20 18:56:09 <maaku> for the taker
309 2013-12-20 18:56:13 <maaku> what stops you from keeping it?
310 2013-12-20 18:56:21 <andytoshi> it's probably a bad idea to share a wallet with somebody, your two copies will come out of sync and there will be confusion regarding who has what keys
311 2013-12-20 18:56:23 <Alina-malina> oh it is not possible?
312 2013-12-20 18:56:43 <maaku> dumpprivkey will pull out the key
313 2013-12-20 18:56:54 <maaku> but the use case you describe sounds like a very bad idea
314 2013-12-20 18:56:56 <andytoshi> it is possible, you copy wallet.dat and give it to them, but it will cause confusion and mistakes mean lost money, so you don't want confusion
315 2013-12-20 18:57:30 <Alina-malina> even if they make some changes?
316 2013-12-20 18:57:49 <Alina-malina> i was thinking to generate addresses with "golden" words and sell them
317 2013-12-20 18:57:57 <Alina-malina> but as i can see it is not possible to share it safely:(
318 2013-12-20 18:58:01 <Alina-malina> or giveaway
319 2013-12-20 18:58:23 <andytoshi> ah, there is a mechanism for selling vanity-generation power
320 2013-12-20 18:58:34 <andytoshi> where you can find a golden address but you won't know the privkey, only the buyer will
321 2013-12-20 18:58:45 <Alina-malina> but how i can sell it?
322 2013-12-20 18:59:16 <Alina-malina> i still be able to finout the privkey if i want right?
323 2013-12-20 18:59:29 <andytoshi> nope ... basically, they generate a random keypair, give you the public half, and you iterate on that until you get some nice words
324 2013-12-20 18:59:45 <andytoshi> then you tell them how many times you iterated, and they will increment their privkey by that much
325 2013-12-20 18:59:46 <Alina-malina> who they?
326 2013-12-20 18:59:59 <maaku> Alina-malina: https://vanitypool.appspot.com/
327 2013-12-20 19:00:00 <andytoshi> the buyer
328 2013-12-20 19:00:11 <Alina-malina> oh i get that
329 2013-12-20 19:00:13 <Alina-malina> :)
330 2013-12-20 19:00:34 <Alina-malina> but i want to sell my generated words:) and not their priv keys
331 2013-12-20 19:01:05 <andytoshi> well, you never see a privkey if you're doing it this way
332 2013-12-20 19:01:27 <maaku> Alina-malina: see the link I posted. it's a working implementation
333 2013-12-20 19:01:35 <Alina-malina> yes i see that
334 2013-12-20 19:02:21 <Alina-malina> but it is not what i exactly think
335 2013-12-20 19:03:18 <Alina-malina> i want something like 1SUPERMAN8ytM35wSvVkx7r1H9zXb96nBEZZ
336 2013-12-20 19:03:43 <Alina-malina> or 1BaTmAn8ytM35wSvVkx7r1H9zXb96nBEZZ
337 2013-12-20 19:03:52 <Alina-malina> and then sell those
338 2013-12-20 19:04:13 <Alina-malina> but as i understand it is not safe
339 2013-12-20 19:15:30 <maaku> Alina-malina: there is no way to make that safe
340 2013-12-20 19:16:09 <maaku> the buyer *has* to provide a pubkey
341 2013-12-20 19:16:16 <Joric> Alina-malina, it's totally safe, it's a split key cryptography
342 2013-12-20 19:16:19 <maaku> which the generated key is then based on
343 2013-12-20 19:16:30 <maaku> Joric: he's not talking about vanitypool
344 2013-12-20 19:17:01 <Joric> well it's not possible then
345 2013-12-20 19:17:17 <Joric> nobody wants a dirty private key
346 2013-12-20 19:17:27 <Alina-malina> just a moment
347 2013-12-20 19:17:32 <Alina-malina> what about cassacious?
348 2013-12-20 19:17:36 <Alina-malina> people trusted that guy right?
349 2013-12-20 19:17:44 <Alina-malina> he had all those priv keys
350 2013-12-20 19:18:14 <Alina-malina> anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts
351 2013-12-20 19:18:18 <Alina-malina> and explaination
352 2013-12-20 19:19:33 <andytoshi> Alina-malina: people trusted casascius (idk how to spell it either :}) because he was a real person with a real name and address ... and it was definitely a security risk for those people
353 2013-12-20 19:20:15 <Alina-malina> andytoshi, i understand
354 2013-12-20 19:20:19 <andytoshi> because he was selling physical goods there was a reasonable chance that you could track him down or send police after him
355 2013-12-20 19:20:32 <Alina-malina> omg
356 2013-12-20 19:20:43 <Alina-malina> eviL sivlE
357 2013-12-20 19:21:20 <Alina-malina> thanks for help, police is very bad:(
358 2013-12-20 19:21:24 <Alina-malina> I did not think about that
359 2013-12-20 19:21:25 <Joric> someone finally did
360 2013-12-20 19:21:37 <Alina-malina> :(
361 2013-12-20 19:21:50 <Joric> SEC hunted him down he stopped manufacturing
362 2013-12-20 19:22:10 <Alina-malina> yes i have heared
363 2013-12-20 19:22:51 <jgarzik_> oh good grief
364 2013-12-20 19:23:07 <jgarzik_> Joric, FinCEN sent him a letter, and he voluntarily stopped
365 2013-12-20 19:23:26 <jgarzik_> not the SEC, and not "hunted down" as he had already registered with FinCEN
366 2013-12-20 19:24:45 <sipa> as a non-US person, i have no idea what the distinction is
367 2013-12-20 19:25:34 <Joric> not quite voluntarily he spent 5k on a lawyer bills in two weeks
368 2013-12-20 19:26:47 <Alina-malina> it is ok to spend 5K for lawyere when you have 80 mil usd equivalent btc
369 2013-12-20 19:26:48 <Alina-malina> loool
370 2013-12-20 19:43:22 <maaku> sipa: as a US person.. i'm not really sure either :)
371 2013-12-20 20:19:02 <arioBarzan> whose idea was to move from wxwidget to qt ? Was qt assumed any better than GTK?
372 2013-12-20 20:20:19 <jgarzik_> arioBarzan, wx was poorly supported comparatively to qt and gtk. I personally like Gtk better, but it is a matter of what people are willing to work on.
373 2013-12-20 20:20:32 <jgarzik_> ACTION <- original GNOME/Gtk/Glib hacker
374 2013-12-20 20:20:47 <andytoshi> jgarzik_: i'm on your side :)
375 2013-12-20 20:20:57 <andytoshi> but it is true that qt is more popular and has more development power behind it
376 2013-12-20 21:53:59 <EasyAt> Hm, so bitcoind cannot bind to 8333. When I look at it in netstat it's being used by System. I'm not sure how to fiure out which service is actually blocking it though
377 2013-12-20 21:54:15 <EasyAt> Has anyone encountered somethign similar?
378 2013-12-20 21:56:38 <sipa> did you just quit bitcoin?
379 2013-12-20 21:56:42 <lianj> EasyAt: netstat as root shows you the service
380 2013-12-20 21:56:42 <sipa> before restarting it?
381 2013-12-20 21:57:53 <EasyAt> http://pastebin.com/Ph5cfL3m
382 2013-12-20 21:57:57 <EasyAt> Strange
383 2013-12-20 21:59:15 <lianj> sudo netstat -anltpu |grep 8333
384 2013-12-20 22:00:26 <EasyAt> I'm running a windows box
385 2013-12-20 22:01:33 <sipa> windows has netstat :o
386 2013-12-20 22:01:34 <lianj> oh, i give up then :)
387 2013-12-20 22:01:36 <sipa> i never knew
388 2013-12-20 22:01:58 <EasyAt> sipa: It does indeed :)
389 2013-12-20 22:02:11 <lianj> 'netstat' ;)
390 2013-12-20 22:02:37 <sipa> windows hasn't been my main OS since (a short time of) WinME :p
391 2013-12-20 22:04:09 <EasyAt> OH man, VMWare Management Interface uses 8333
392 2013-12-20 22:04:14 <EasyAt> There we go
393 2013-12-20 22:05:01 <lianj> haha
394 2013-12-20 22:13:30 <sturles> EasyAt: Yes, I have. Don't remember what it was, but I do remember the feeling of stupidity when I found out..
395 2013-12-20 22:18:36 <sturles> EasyAt: Found out. Not the same problem. Mine couldn't bind to 8332 because the computer was in single use mode and lo (127.0.0.1) wasn't up.
396 2013-12-20 22:34:42 <EasyAt> Ah, that'll happen
397 2013-12-20 23:17:44 <Krellan_> Sad that vmware claims port 8333 - guess it will be a long time before vmware accepts bitcoin then :)
398 2013-12-20 23:18:42 <robonerd> http://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml
399 2013-12-20 23:21:36 <Krellan_> interesting, nobody's claimed it, guess it's a free for all
400 2013-12-20 23:22:19 <Krellan_> can vmware VMI be moved to different port?
401 2013-12-20 23:28:17 <maaku> Krellan_: not a question for this channel
402 2013-12-20 23:31:52 <edcba> easier to move bitcoin than vmware...
403 2013-12-20 23:34:56 <Krellan_> only problem when moving bitcoin is the world expects to connect to you on port 8333, and bitcoind gives less preference to making connections to nonstandard ports (I think)
404 2013-12-20 23:35:39 <Krellan_> there was a really good writeup on the algorithm bitcoind uses when choosing a new outbound target for an available connection slot - where was it?
405 2013-12-20 23:36:27 <upb> in the bitcoin code i guess
406 2013-12-20 23:37:04 <maaku> Krellan_: bitcoin has no problem connecting to non-stanard ports
407 2013-12-20 23:37:39 <maaku> the port is included in the message which shares peer ips
408 2013-12-20 23:39:28 <Krellan_> correct - however I still think that nonstandard ports are demoted somehow when making the selection
409 2013-12-20 23:39:49 <Krellan_> so you'll get less inbound connections when you run on a nonstandard port (but other than that, no trouble at all, as you said).
410 2013-12-20 23:41:18 <gmaxwell> you'll likely get none at all, but its not the end of the world.
411 2013-12-20 23:44:29 <Krellan_> gmaxwell: was it you who had that writeup of how bitcoind chooses from its list of known addresses and picks one for making a new outbound conn.?
412 2013-12-20 23:51:20 <Krellan_> rats, searched, didn't find it. Was rather clever too: i remember it preferred IP's far separated in address space, to make sure the network is spread out.
413 2013-12-20 23:51:54 <gmaxwell> Krellan_: it just won't make multiple outbound connections to the same /16.
414 2013-12-20 23:52:06 <gmaxwell> (and similar for v6)
415 2013-12-20 23:52:10 <sipa> Krellan_: read https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/addrman.h#L97
416 2013-12-20 23:52:38 <gmaxwell> the addresses we keep use a even more clever process though.
417 2013-12-20 23:53:16 <coingenuity> hm
418 2013-12-20 23:53:19 <coingenuity> question for you all
419 2013-12-20 23:53:39 <coingenuity> it appears there's no way to offload the chain directory to anything except datadir in bitcoind
420 2013-12-20 23:53:40 <Krellan_> sipa: Nice, thanks
421 2013-12-20 23:53:46 <coingenuity> or am i missing something?
422 2013-12-20 23:54:03 <sipa> coingenuity: you can symlink it elsewhere, but otherwise, no
423 2013-12-20 23:54:11 <coingenuity> :/
424 2013-12-20 23:54:11 <deanclkclk> folks..anyone use java with bitcoind json-rpc?
425 2013-12-20 23:54:12 <sipa> in git head it may be changed
426 2013-12-20 23:54:17 <coingenuity> boo
427 2013-12-20 23:54:22 <sipa> unsure whether that was merged yet
428 2013-12-20 23:54:34 <deanclkclk> I am trying to setup my java project but, not sure how I authenticate
429 2013-12-20 23:54:50 <deanclkclk> should the authentication value be apart of the url params?
430 2013-12-20 23:54:55 <coingenuity> sipa: was hoping there's a convenient way to have chain live on a ramdisk but bitcoind pull .conf and wallet from the normal datadir
431 2013-12-20 23:55:18 <deanclkclk> example https://127.0.0.1:port/username=blah&password=blah
432 2013-12-20 23:55:24 <deanclkclk> or I set the password in the request body
433 2013-12-20 23:55:27 <deanclkclk> can someone help me?
434 2013-12-20 23:55:31 <coingenuity> sipa: seems like my best bet is to symlink the chain dir to ramdisk, and just copy to/from a normal backup on boot etc
435 2013-12-20 23:55:38 <coingenuity> thats kind of sloppy though :/
436 2013-12-20 23:55:42 <sipa> coingenuity: use -dbcache=2000
437 2013-12-20 23:55:46 <sipa> instead of a ram disk
438 2013-12-20 23:56:18 <coingenuity> i was thinking about that, but bdb might be latent
439 2013-12-20 23:56:22 <coingenuity> ill give it a shot