1 2014-01-06 00:45:21 <TheLordOfTime> anyone got any spare testnet coins they can send me? I need some to test more things.
2 2014-01-06 00:45:34 <TheLordOfTime> ACTION would mine it, but doesn't want to set his laptop aflame in the process
3 2014-01-06 00:45:57 <jakov> how long would it take to mine on average? just wondering since i was thinking of downloading and running it
4 2014-01-06 00:46:08 <TheLordOfTime> jakov: depends on the difficulty
5 2014-01-06 00:46:14 <jakov> it is 1
6 2014-01-06 00:46:19 <TheLordOfTime> it says 16 right now
7 2014-01-06 00:46:23 <jakov> : o
8 2014-01-06 00:46:26 <TheLordOfTime> in the rpc console
9 2014-01-06 00:46:30 <jakov> then blockexplorer is wrong
10 2014-01-06 00:46:36 <TheLordOfTime> i think it goes to 1 every 20 minutes there's no blocks though IDK
11 2014-01-06 00:46:42 <TheLordOfTime> others are more well versed on that
12 2014-01-06 00:46:55 <TheLordOfTime> if i had even one of those small 332MH/s miners i'd be able to mine testnet but meh
13 2014-01-06 00:47:07 <TheLordOfTime> bfgminer reports the diff as 16
14 2014-01-06 00:47:38 <robonerd> is p2pool tyoe of mining as good or better than pool mining?
15 2014-01-06 00:48:01 <robonerd> would a private group of 20 earn more in their own private pool or all hooking up to a decentralized pool?
16 2014-01-06 00:48:22 <jakov> p2pool take a fee
17 2014-01-06 00:48:28 <robonerd> it does?
18 2014-01-06 00:48:34 <jakov> so if your private group is large enough to not care about variance
19 2014-01-06 00:48:36 <robonerd> i thought that was an advantage to it, no operator fee
20 2014-01-06 00:48:45 <jakov> its website says 2%
21 2014-01-06 00:48:54 <jakov> although that website is squatting apparently
22 2014-01-06 00:49:00 <robonerd> how many small/mid size miners would it take to reach a point where variance averages out
23 2014-01-06 00:49:15 <jakov> variance always averages out
24 2014-01-06 00:49:25 <jakov> work out the time between blocks
25 2014-01-06 00:49:30 <jakov> for the hashpower you have
26 2014-01-06 00:49:44 <jakov> or rather, choose a time between blocks you're happy with and work out the required hash power
27 2014-01-06 00:49:52 <robonerd> is there mining software that'll auto tune this stuff?
28 2014-01-06 00:50:06 <robonerd> (ya, also a nice approach)
29 2014-01-06 00:56:11 <Lifeofcray> guys, i was thinking about something
30 2014-01-06 00:56:17 <Lifeofcray> how does big online wallets
31 2014-01-06 00:56:29 <Lifeofcray> handle wallets that's "lost"
32 2014-01-06 00:57:14 <Lifeofcray> because i'm sure that most big wallets stores all coins at the same place and stores peoples balances in a database
33 2014-01-06 00:57:23 <Lifeofcray> so what happens if a guy dies?
34 2014-01-06 00:57:34 <Lifeofcray> or does log in for 2 years, 5 years, 10 years?
35 2014-01-06 00:57:40 <Lifeofcray> doesnt
36 2014-01-06 01:18:57 <jakov> Lifeofcray it will just stay there
37 2014-01-06 01:19:00 <filadome> what's the input string for generating hashes?
38 2014-01-06 01:19:03 <filadome> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work
39 2014-01-06 01:19:09 <jakov> until the company collapses and all its assets sold off
40 2014-01-06 01:19:14 <jakov> which given a long enough time scale will happen
41 2014-01-06 01:19:27 <jakov> filadome the blockheader iirc
42 2014-01-06 01:19:52 <filadome> so it's the block header and some random input?
43 2014-01-06 01:20:15 <jakov> the block header contains a nonce field
44 2014-01-06 01:20:15 <jakov> which is incremented while searching for the right hash
45 2014-01-06 01:21:26 <ColErr> Quick question, do miners go all the way through the hash algorithms?
46 2014-01-06 01:21:52 <ColErr> or do they look at intermediate values to determine if it will be a good hash first?
47 2014-01-06 01:22:08 <jakov> intermediate values of what?
48 2014-01-06 01:22:29 <ColErr> of the hash, the working value
49 2014-01-06 01:22:32 <jakov> there is not intermediate value
50 2014-01-06 01:22:41 <jakov> the proof of work is basically bruteforcing
51 2014-01-06 01:22:58 <jakov> thats easy to check but hard to do
52 2014-01-06 01:23:08 <ColErr> when you calculate SHA, there are values before the last step
53 2014-01-06 01:23:34 <jakov> oh right
54 2014-01-06 01:23:35 <ColErr> it's still brute forcing, you you can save a couple calculations by not computing the whole hash
55 2014-01-06 01:23:49 <jakov> im pretty sure nothing like that happens
56 2014-01-06 01:27:01 <filadome> is there a website that has the miner input data in JSON?
57 2014-01-06 01:29:16 <filadome> this is what i was looking for: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
58 2014-01-06 01:31:59 <forrestv> robonerd/jakov, p2pool doesn't have a required fee. p2pool.org is just someone running a p2pool node and taking a 2% fee from people who use them
59 2014-01-06 01:32:10 <brickand> `bitcoind getaccount <address>` returns <account>, but using unspent outputs sent to <address> in `sendrawtransaction` debits from "", not account... is that expected behavior ?
60 2014-01-06 01:33:26 <robonerd> forrestv i knew it!
61 2014-01-06 01:33:45 <robonerd> ok so with a p2pool having no fee, is there any advantage to working in a private mining pool where there is a small service fee?
62 2014-01-06 01:35:46 <gmaxwell> forrestv: perhaps p2pool should be renamed.
63 2014-01-06 01:36:06 <gmaxwell> would solve the problem of the name theifs... and perhaps flush away some of the old FUD.
64 2014-01-06 01:36:32 <filadome> is there a browser I can use to see what's happening on the bitcoin network?
65 2014-01-06 01:36:32 <gmaxwell> oh this isn't #p2pool
66 2014-01-06 01:36:58 <SomeoneWeird> sure, wireshark
67 2014-01-06 01:37:00 <xMopxShell> hi, is there a way to calcuate a transaction's fee, without executing it, from the daemon's command line?
68 2014-01-06 01:37:17 <filadome> is there a debugger that shows all the data structures?
69 2014-01-06 01:37:37 <gmaxwell> xMopxShell: no, not currently.
70 2014-01-06 01:38:02 <xMopxShell> hmm
71 2014-01-06 01:38:06 <xMopxShell> thats unfortunate
72 2014-01-06 01:38:20 <xMopxShell> the whole thing with accounts going negative because of fees is really irritating
73 2014-01-06 01:38:54 <brickand> xMopxShell: if I'm not mistaken you could just create the raw transaction and count the bytes
74 2014-01-06 01:39:08 <SomeoneWeird> it's not only bytes :)
75 2014-01-06 01:39:23 <xMopxShell> yeah, that
76 2014-01-06 01:40:32 <xMopxShell> the qt client seems to be able to predict the fee without sending, so i dont really get why the api cant
77 2014-01-06 01:40:48 <Luke-Jr> xMopxShell: it doesn't predict
78 2014-01-06 01:41:05 <xMopxShell> how so?
79 2014-01-06 01:41:09 <Luke-Jr> xMopxShell: Bitcoin-Qt actually creates the transaction, but just doesn't broadcast it until you confirm
80 2014-01-06 01:41:23 <Luke-Jr> xMopxShell: anyhow, there's a patch to get bitcoind to limit what it does automatically
81 2014-01-06 01:42:53 <xMopxShell> is that doable on the api?
82 2014-01-06 01:43:51 <robonerd> with a p2pool having no fee, is there any advantage to working in a private mining pool where there is a small service fee?
83 2014-01-06 01:52:17 <filadome> what port does bitminter client use to get data?
84 2014-01-06 01:52:23 <Neozonz> Discx2|Mine-Litecoin.com is back in action 0.5% pps pool
85 2014-01-06 01:52:32 <Luke-Jr> robonerd: privacy, security, lower variance, etc
86 2014-01-06 01:52:32 <Neozonz> Discx2|oh fuck
87 2014-01-06 01:52:35 <Neozonz> Discx2|wrong channel
88 2014-01-06 01:52:42 <Neozonz> Discx2|ACTION apologizes
89 2014-01-06 01:52:43 <Neozonz> Discx2|orz
90 2014-01-06 01:52:52 <robonerd> ahh
91 2014-01-06 01:53:05 <robonerd> do some ppl consider the extra 2% they pay worth being in a private pool?
92 2014-01-06 01:53:32 <jgarzik> receive version message: /Satoshi:0.8.5/: version 70001, blocks=139327, us=69.64.34.118:8333, them=[2001:0:9d38:90d7:20a9:422:25b0:c650]:8333, peer=101.85.51.118:51568
93 2014-01-06 01:54:30 <Luke-Jr> robonerd: no idea why people pay fees
94 2014-01-06 01:54:46 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: O.o
95 2014-01-06 01:55:26 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ?
96 2014-01-06 01:55:57 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: IPv6 address sent on IPv4 connections I presume
97 2014-01-06 01:56:03 <jgarzik> yep
98 2014-01-06 01:56:06 <phantomcircuit> oh
99 2014-01-06 01:56:14 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, tor?
100 2014-01-06 01:56:17 <jgarzik> no
101 2014-01-06 01:56:26 <phantomcircuit> iirc that's what tor connections look like
102 2014-01-06 01:56:37 <jgarzik> hm
103 2014-01-06 01:56:44 <phantomcircuit> weird
104 2014-01-06 01:57:00 <phantomcircuit> except peer would be 127.0.0.1
105 2014-01-06 01:57:16 <phantomcircuit> maybe someone has their hiddenservice pointed at your node
106 2014-01-06 01:57:17 <phantomcircuit> heh
107 2014-01-06 01:57:38 <phantomcircuit> except that isn't the right prefix
108 2014-01-06 01:58:01 <jgarzik> "help!! how do I install quarkcoin-cpuminer on Ubuntu 12.old???" sigh.
109 2014-01-06 01:58:43 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, lol
110 2014-01-06 01:58:59 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, "sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /"
111 2014-01-06 02:00:00 <Cylta> don't do this line, anyone...
112 2014-01-06 02:00:15 <Cylta> phantomcircuit: such jokes is a bad thing, in any context.
113 2014-01-06 02:01:21 <phantomcircuit> i cant honestly believe anybody would run that
114 2014-01-06 02:01:37 <Cylta> even if 1% will do it, what will happen?
115 2014-01-06 02:01:55 <Cylta> 4 people from here will lost all their data... and? is it good for anyone?..
116 2014-01-06 02:02:09 <galt> ACTION remembers when that rm-rf was a bannable offense
117 2014-01-06 02:02:19 <Diablo-D3> most people here run windows
118 2014-01-06 02:02:20 <Diablo-D3> so
119 2014-01-06 02:02:27 <phantomcircuit> Cylta, you think that 1% of people who can even access a unix terminal would run that?
120 2014-01-06 02:02:33 <jgarzik> -ENOCARE
121 2014-01-06 02:02:34 <phantomcircuit> that seems insanely high
122 2014-01-06 02:02:44 <Diablo-D3> and even if they do it
123 2014-01-06 02:02:47 <Diablo-D3> it'll be the last time they do it
124 2014-01-06 02:02:51 <phantomcircuit> haha
125 2014-01-06 02:02:56 <Cylta> phantomcircuit: probably even more. think of newbies.
126 2014-01-06 02:02:56 <galt> the guy woo did most o the k-lines for that would probably clot in horror at that part about windows ;P
127 2014-01-06 02:03:09 <Diablo-D3> >newbies
128 2014-01-06 02:03:11 <Diablo-D3> >in here
129 2014-01-06 02:03:16 <Diablo-D3> >on *nix
130 2014-01-06 02:03:16 <Diablo-D3> wat
131 2014-01-06 02:03:27 <Cylta> statistically.
132 2014-01-06 02:03:36 <Diablo-D3> statistically, we're tired of hearing you talk about this
133 2014-01-06 02:03:47 <Cylta> even if there just 0.1 person here statistically. it's still very, very bad.
134 2014-01-06 02:03:55 <Cylta> 0.1 person who would do it
135 2014-01-06 02:03:57 <Diablo-D3> a tenth of a person
136 2014-01-06 02:04:05 <Diablo-D3> can we ban Cylta? =/
137 2014-01-06 02:04:10 <Cylta> a tenth of a broken pc and lost data.
138 2014-01-06 02:04:33 <Diablo-D3> a tenth of a broken pc? sounds like they installed osx.
139 2014-01-06 02:05:08 <galt> no, they said "tenth" osx would have made it 1% useful, tops ;P
140 2014-01-06 02:05:20 <Diablo-D3> heh.
141 2014-01-06 02:15:41 <jgarzik> https://github.com/PhantomPhreak/Counterparty
142 2014-01-06 02:15:53 <jgarzik> wonder how long until miners start self-minting this
143 2014-01-06 02:27:31 <robonerd> jgarzik is that yours? counterparty
144 2014-01-06 02:27:44 <jgarzik> robonerd, no
145 2014-01-06 02:30:27 <jgarzik> "We may need to switch to destroying coins by sending them to an unspendable address."
146 2014-01-06 02:30:29 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
147 2014-01-06 02:35:57 <Cylta> I can provide an unspendable address. 100% solid!
148 2014-01-06 02:38:06 <galt> Cylta: there's a few thousand already in the blockchain ;P
149 2014-01-06 02:38:08 <robonerd> jgarzik who's saying that?
150 2014-01-06 02:39:51 <jgarzik> robonerd, the creator
151 2014-01-06 02:40:02 <robonerd> of counterparty?
152 2014-01-06 02:42:05 <galt> Kaminsky put 77 of 'em in ;P
153 2014-01-06 06:32:45 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: you around?
154 2014-01-06 06:48:14 <michagogo> cloud|TheLordOfTime: still need those testnet coins? I'm not at my computer (just woke up) but if you PM me an address, I've got a few hundred MH/s I can point at testnet for a few blocks at your address
155 2014-01-06 06:48:34 <michagogo> cloud|(In a couple hours, probably)
156 2014-01-06 07:42:42 <netg> how many does he need?
157 2014-01-06 07:42:43 <netg> http://tpfaucet.appspot.com/ has 500
158 2014-01-06 08:10:11 <abrkn> im trying to construct a tx using bitcoinjs-lib with inspiration from coinpunk: https://gist.github.com/abrkn/c887f18d834d9b5319a0 but keep getting "invalid signature" when pushing to blockchain.info's pushtx. any obvious mistakes? am i using the correct script for unspentOutScript?
159 2014-01-06 08:58:14 <cr3pe> hi
160 2014-01-06 09:33:41 <Zyngacoin> Register to talk?
161 2014-01-06 09:34:12 <brisque> identify with nickserv at least, which you appear to have.
162 2014-01-06 09:34:58 <Zyngacoin> that's already done.. :)
163 2014-01-06 09:35:17 <Zyngacoin> where can I find resources to fork coin or alt coin dev room?
164 2014-01-06 09:35:50 <brisque> you'll likely get no help here, this is #bitcoin-dev. altcoins are off topic.
165 2014-01-06 09:36:49 <Zyngacoin> I know is there any altcoin dev room ? Google aint helping
166 2014-01-06 09:38:15 <brisque> unlikely. it's one of those things where if you have to ask it's over your head anyway.
167 2014-01-06 09:39:03 <matjeh> because noone in history has ever learnt something by asking...
168 2014-01-06 09:40:58 <brisque> matjeh: if you need to ask to be able to chang a name and a few variables in Bitcoin it's very unlikely that you will be able to handle developing a cryptocurrency. the source code is mostly completely self explanatory, it's not like the details are secret.
169 2014-01-06 09:42:22 <matjeh> i think we all started by changing numbers and lines in existing programs without understanding the entire codebase
170 2014-01-06 09:43:33 <brisque> there's a difference between that and making a scamcoin with a companies trademark in the name.
171 2014-01-06 09:44:13 <brisque> they're playing the "zynga accepts bitcoin" angle to promote a pump-and-dump coin, that's all there is to it.
172 2014-01-06 09:46:16 <gmaxwell> I certantly didn't go on IRC and start nagging people about which lines I should be changing when I started by changing lines...
173 2014-01-06 09:50:27 <heeventuli> hi! on question: When is the AcceptToMempool fired? Is it fired when a transaction has reached enough confirmations?
174 2014-01-06 09:51:13 <brisque> every time a valid transaction is received. nothing to do with confirmations.
175 2014-01-06 09:51:51 <brisque> the mempool holds transactions that are not confirmed (not in a block).
176 2014-01-06 10:15:26 <heeventuli> ah! ok!
177 2014-01-06 10:20:59 <warren> you could have just pointed him at coingen.io
178 2014-01-06 10:24:18 <melvster> Anyone know, is there any easy way I can find a block with exactly 2 transactions? Is one here, but i cant seem to see the height ... https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-per-block?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
179 2014-01-06 10:25:34 <brisque> melvster: try 00000000000000023dfb49f5c2063559e7f2345acb1bfd60e89d72a304c85bce
180 2014-01-06 10:26:24 <melvster> brisque: thank you!
181 2014-01-06 10:27:04 <brisque> melvster: I cheated, just Googled for site:blockexplorer.com "Transactions?: 2". handy trick to know though.
182 2014-01-06 10:30:05 <Marcel> HSD|Morning everyone. I am running a full bitcoin node on one of our servers but it has never been listed on the bitnodes.io lists. getinfo returns version 70002, so the node should be included right, getpeerinfo returns 30 peers. Do I need to do something special?
183 2014-01-06 10:30:41 <brisque> is your server listening with port 8333 exposed?
184 2014-01-06 10:30:47 <Marcel> HSD|yep
185 2014-01-06 10:31:02 <gmaxwell> brisque: you can tell because 30 peers
186 2014-01-06 10:31:27 <brisque> gmaxwell: yep, I'm being thick again.
187 2014-01-06 10:31:30 <gmaxwell> Marcel|HSD: if you have more than 8 peers you're fine, nodes are finding you. I have no clue what "bitnodes.io" is up-to.
188 2014-01-06 10:31:59 <ThomasZ> does bitnodes.io check if you have the full blockchain?
189 2014-01-06 10:32:07 <brisque> they seem to just query every node for every node they know, and try to connect back to them. if it's missed you it's not really indicative of anything.
190 2014-01-06 10:32:51 <Marcel> HSD|brisque: so, bug in bitnodes.io code then
191 2014-01-06 10:33:09 <brisque> ThomasZ: they would as they're recording the connection header, not sure if they display it though.
192 2014-01-06 10:33:41 <ThomasZ> just thinking that they may exclude nodes that have only a small part of the chain.
193 2014-01-06 10:34:03 <Marcel> HSD|their stuff seems to get used by people to estimate 'network size'. regardless of that is the right tool to use, i'd like to do what I can to help them get reliable results
194 2014-01-06 10:34:33 <gmaxwell> 87ad66d42b3ed98db91540c3848e3141f1e28326281b70408e7058458c3b62dd
195 2014-01-06 10:34:34 <gmaxwell> oops
196 2014-01-06 10:34:35 <brisque> no, from their logs they don't care about the block height.
197 2014-01-06 10:34:47 <gmaxwell> Marcel|HSD: most of the results there are super unreliable in any case.
198 2014-01-06 10:34:56 <gmaxwell> People using that for network size estimates are doomed. :P
199 2014-01-06 10:35:10 <gmaxwell> (e.g. they count just addr rumored addresses, most of those are junk)
200 2014-01-06 10:36:13 <Marcel> HSD|why is that?
201 2014-01-06 10:36:43 <ThomasZ> because bitcoin is decentralized
202 2014-01-06 10:37:16 <brisque> and a lot of nodes aren't publicly accessible.
203 2014-01-06 10:37:38 <brisque> I'm connected to gmaxwell's, but neither of us will ever be seen in a bitnodes.io scrape.
204 2014-01-06 10:38:04 <Marcel> HSD|i understand why many are not visible
205 2014-01-06 10:38:15 <Marcel> HSD|i dont understand why mine is not
206 2014-01-06 10:38:44 <brisque> who knows really.
207 2014-01-06 10:39:06 <melvster> hmmm so im trying to compute the merkle root for block 27066 with 2 tx ... but I seem to get a different answer that I expected
208 2014-01-06 10:39:07 <melvster> 608e2f7aef16a7181155bbb9d366d61c624f03c130ce0dab6c208bf9d14e3a75
209 2014-01-06 10:39:07 <melvster> echo -n "27d72b388948fe8cbd09330e042e6971a688dc9c7e39f2109eaaba801eabd1de0b1469b9b1218729a5c680c54897b1f53fb169241646998afaccab73b1676c1e" | sha256sum | sha256sum
210 2014-01-06 10:39:31 <Marcel> HSD|brisque: lol, that kind of invalidates the whole tool they've built :-)
211 2014-01-06 10:39:51 <ThomasZ> Marcel|HSD: there is no central place nodes have to register to be reachable, thats the power of the protocol. But it means that one node can't expect to find all nodes.
212 2014-01-06 10:40:23 <ThomasZ> Marcel|HSD: thats a feature, btw ;)
213 2014-01-06 10:40:29 <Marcel> HSD|i know
214 2014-01-06 10:40:37 <gmaxwell> it's actually preferable that its hard to enumerate all of them, makes DDOS attacks a bit harder. (though we don't really do much to create that outcome)
215 2014-01-06 10:41:24 <gmaxwell> Marcel|HSD: you may become visible there in a few days, or notâ I don't know how they're filtering the list.
216 2014-01-06 10:41:38 <gmaxwell> But if you have 30 connections then at least 22 other nodes have found you.
217 2014-01-06 10:42:08 <melvster> oh i think blockexplorer, blockchain.info and I think bitcoind are giving me the reverse endianness
218 2014-01-06 10:42:13 <gmaxwell> melvster: uuuh you are hashing ascii hexadecimial data.
219 2014-01-06 10:42:13 <Marcel> HSD|gmaxwell: i've monitored it for a couple of weeks, the host never shows up. It's not a biggie, I just find the picture on http://getaddr.bitnodes.io useful
220 2014-01-06 10:42:27 <brisque> gmaxwell: from their logs they literally just connect to one peer, then connect to every peer it anounces, and so forth until it hits every peer on the network.
221 2014-01-06 10:42:30 <melvster> gmaxwell: oh ... good point, doh!
222 2014-01-06 10:42:44 <brisque> Marcel|HSD: useful? every colour on the chart is the same! I can't tell one from another.
223 2014-01-06 10:42:57 <gmaxwell> melvster: the picture is pure fantasy, you can make it show whatever colors you want if they connect to you.
224 2014-01-06 10:43:00 <Marcel> HSD|s/useful/useful for me/
225 2014-01-06 10:43:06 <ThomasZ> Marcel|HSD: the real question is, does anyone download blocks from you? And if they do, I'm wondering what your bandwith usage experiences are.
226 2014-01-06 10:43:09 <gmaxwell> just feed it a bunch of addr messages for ever IP in iceland or whatever. :P
227 2014-01-06 10:43:29 <Marcel> HSD|ThomasZ: true, i've capped it at 30
228 2014-01-06 10:43:40 <Marcel> HSD|connections that is
229 2014-01-06 10:44:08 <gmaxwell> bandwidth usage really a function of how many new nodes pull the chain from you, number of connections makes a far smaller impact.
230 2014-01-06 10:44:17 <brisque> my bandwidth is fairly high at times, but it's not unmanageable.
231 2014-01-06 10:44:31 <gmaxwell> I suppose that if your connection count is low that eventually you'll just have no new nodes connected to you.
232 2014-01-06 10:44:51 <Marcel> HSD|gmaxwell: low being...
233 2014-01-06 10:44:59 <gmaxwell> Marcel|HSD: also that explains why you're not showing up at least in the list of reachable nodes, you're full and they're unable to connect to you.
234 2014-01-06 10:45:07 <gmaxwell> low enough that you're actually full
235 2014-01-06 10:45:07 <Marcel> HSD|ah
236 2014-01-06 10:45:33 <gmaxwell> e.g. everyone connected eventually sync up.. so you'll only get a chance of bootstrapping someone when one of your existing nodes shuts off.
237 2014-01-06 10:46:15 <brisque> not safe to assume that peers stick around though. with the VIN empty bug I was churning through nodes constantly when they got banned.
238 2014-01-06 10:46:47 <gmaxwell> indeed, its not a guarantee.
239 2014-01-06 10:46:51 <ThomasZ> also, laptops and desktops tend to not be on 100%
240 2014-01-06 10:47:07 <gmaxwell> sure sure. I did use the word eventually.
241 2014-01-06 10:47:12 <Marcel> HSD|i had assumed the tool could distinguish between a 'full' node and 'no peers'
242 2014-01-06 10:47:31 <brisque> no, the distinction is between "saw them" and "connected to them and got a response"
243 2014-01-06 10:48:04 <brisque> Marcel|HSD: oh, are you IPv6?
244 2014-01-06 10:48:09 <gmaxwell> and the saw them measurement is pretty worthless because there is a lot of junk circulating.
245 2014-01-06 10:48:10 <Marcel> HSD|brisque: no
246 2014-01-06 10:48:34 <Marcel> HSD|so, all full nodes are not included in their lists
247 2014-01-06 10:48:58 <gmaxwell> no and can never be
248 2014-01-06 10:49:04 <gmaxwell> there is no way to enumerate all full nodes.
249 2014-01-06 10:49:37 <gmaxwell> and there lists of "saw them" is full of a lot of addresses which have likely never run a node.
250 2014-01-06 10:49:43 <Marcel> HSD|i meant with 'full' = maxconnections reached
251 2014-01-06 10:49:48 <ThomasZ> the shadow bitcoin web :P
252 2014-01-06 10:50:14 <gmaxwell> Marcel|HSD: nodes that are at maxconnections won't show up in ther "connected to them and got a response" list but should show up in their "saw them" list
253 2014-01-06 10:50:26 <gmaxwell> but the saw them list is so full of junk that they may be doing some filtering thats excluding you.
254 2014-01-06 10:50:38 <Marcel> HSD|ah
255 2014-01-06 10:51:02 <brisque> Marcel|HSD: if you let me know the IP of the node I'll look in their logs for it, got them open anyway.
256 2014-01-06 10:52:07 <brisque> ah hah! you were right gmaxwell, they connected to Marcel|HSD's node but filtered it out of the list.
257 2014-01-06 10:55:39 <Marcel> HSD|thanks all, at least it's explained why the node is not on there
258 2014-01-06 11:00:45 <cr3pe> Is there a way to get the redeemScript of an address created with addmultisigaddress(N, [pubA, pubB, .., pubM])?
259 2014-01-06 11:01:04 <cr3pe> or do I have to run createmultisig again?
260 2014-01-06 11:01:41 <sipa> doesn't validateaddress give it?
261 2014-01-06 11:02:46 <cr3pe> I will have to check, this seems like it should.
262 2014-01-06 11:05:52 <cr3pe> by the way, is it possible to sign a message to prove that we can unlock a mulitsig address?
263 2014-01-06 11:14:25 <melvster> thanks for the help ... i computed the hash correctly
264 2014-01-06 11:14:26 <melvster> FYI
265 2014-01-06 11:14:28 <melvster> Crypto.util.bytesToHex( Crypto.SHA256( Crypto.SHA256 ( Crypto.util.hexToBytes( '0b1469b9b1218729a5c680c54897b1f53fb169241646998afaccab73b1676c1e' + '27d72b388948fe8cbd09330e042e6971a688dc9c7e39f2109eaaba801eabd1de' ).reverse(), { asBytes: true } ), {asBytes: true} ).reverse() )
266 2014-01-06 11:29:12 <abrkn> im able to construct, sign and submit a tx with a single input using bitcoinjs-lib, however, when i try with multiple inputs it's rejected and debug.log says something about it being non-standard. anyone able to see what's wrong? raw tx and decoded: https://gist.github.com/abrkn/f16fe8365f010f323162
267 2014-01-06 11:32:35 <warren> sipa: I know this sounds crazy, but network connection failures on rare Windows machines seem to go away after i downgrade boost.
268 2014-01-06 11:33:05 <warren> sipa: I mention this here because the newer boost is identical to what is currently in master
269 2014-01-06 11:46:15 <abrkn> when my tx is rejected by bitcoind's sendrawtransaction and blockchain pushtx says "invalid signature", where should i start looking? my code works as long as there's only a single input
270 2014-01-06 11:46:44 <gmaxwell> you're probably failing to mask out the other signatures, I'd guess.
271 2014-01-06 11:47:59 <abrkn> im pretty much duplicating this code: https://github.com/kyledrake/coinpunk/blob/master/public/js/coinpunk/models/wallet.js#L304
272 2014-01-06 11:49:33 <abrkn> the code looks weird, because it blanks out scripts for other inputs than the one being signed, but when used those inputs are not added yet
273 2014-01-06 11:50:30 <abrkn> owait...
274 2014-01-06 11:50:32 <shesek> abrkn, didn't you ask that yesterday?
275 2014-01-06 11:50:40 <shesek> as sipa said, you should add all the inputs the the transaction prior to signing them
276 2014-01-06 11:51:14 <abrkn> shesek: i must have missed the reply, poor internet
277 2014-01-06 11:51:28 <shesek> (each input signature signs the other inputs too, unless you're using SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY)
278 2014-01-06 11:51:31 <abrkn> ah, it works now. thanks :)
279 2014-01-06 11:52:36 <shesek> you welcome
280 2014-01-06 11:53:00 <shesek> if you're using bitcoinjs-lib, I suggest you to look into vbuterin's fork
281 2014-01-06 11:53:23 <shesek> he fixed quite a few bugs and added some useful things
282 2014-01-06 11:53:41 <shesek> plus its properly modular using nodejs's module definition style (which you can also use client side with browserify)
283 2014-01-06 11:54:39 <abrkn> shesek: excellent, we use browserify everywhere on justcoin. i've been checking out vbuterin's fork, yep
284 2014-01-06 11:54:54 <shesek> and its under active development, the original one is dead and the one by bitfloor is dead too (vbuterion's is a fork of bitfloor's, a fork of the original by justmoon)
285 2014-01-06 11:56:02 <shesek> so yeah, it should be much more convenient to work with
286 2014-01-06 11:56:28 <shesek> I had to do some extremely ugly hacks to get the original one to work with my nodejs/browserify code
287 2014-01-06 11:59:19 <abrkn> i'm definitely looking to improve the library also. tests and sanity checks does wonders
288 2014-01-06 12:00:10 <abrkn> and adding all sorts of neat functionality (bips) could attract more developers to use more advanced use cases without having to learn too much c++
289 2014-01-06 12:02:29 <abrkn> heres the functional sweep.js: https://gist.github.com/abrkn/e770e24455fbe0065f74
290 2014-01-06 12:07:49 <kolala> hi
291 2014-01-06 12:07:52 <kolala> oh
292 2014-01-06 12:07:57 <kolala> can talk now
293 2014-01-06 12:08:12 <kolala> does anyone have any great tips on trying to build the windows client?
294 2014-01-06 12:08:29 <kolala> should i try gitian/cross compiling on my ubuntu box?
295 2014-01-06 12:08:39 <kolala> mingw under windows isnt really a success
296 2014-01-06 12:11:23 <ThomasZ> kolala: I think mingw is the only way to do it, unless you cross compile from another platform.
297 2014-01-06 12:11:48 <kolala> yes, i have an ubuntu box
298 2014-01-06 12:32:10 <korndog> ..
299 2014-01-06 12:33:10 <korndog> I am writing a simple bash script to start bitcoind then issue commands like getnewaddress, stop, etc. So when I execute "bitcoind getnewaddress receiver1" etc it keeps telling me it can't connect to the server. HOwever, ONCE the script is done, I can run the commands on the command line just fine ...
300 2014-01-06 12:33:23 <nza> hi
301 2014-01-06 12:33:48 <ThomasZ> korndog: add a sleep 2 ?
302 2014-01-06 12:33:52 <korndog> I put in a 20 second sleep after it starts up "bitcoind -daemon" ... have no clue, hardcoded paths to run same bitcoind
303 2014-01-06 12:34:40 <korndog> thomasz i've tried 20 second pause to make sure it is listening to port. this baffles me. seems so easy in interactive shell, tehn in bash script it behaves totally differently
304 2014-01-06 12:35:10 <nza> can anyone tell me, what is addrtype 5 used for?
305 2014-01-06 12:36:08 <brisque> ;;bc,wiki list of address prefixes
306 2014-01-06 12:36:08 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_address_prefixes | Dec 25, 2013 ... The encoding includes a version byte, which affects the first character in the address. The following is a list of some prefixes which are in use.
307 2014-01-06 12:38:15 <graingert> nza: that's 128 or a "private key" type
308 2014-01-06 12:38:21 <graingert> check_addr(0+128, '5Jr9HyPQFr16hp1GgYBeTfy7LQ4o2smTBjEK3V3u1CiDaG4Tuhy')
309 2014-01-06 12:43:41 <nza> thanks for help :) don't know how i missed that wiki page
310 2014-01-06 13:00:15 <korndog> wow it takes 20+ seconds for bitcoind to fireup and open the rpc port up.. so i have to find command line to wait for port to be listened to, i guess
311 2014-01-06 13:00:29 <brisque> -rpcwait
312 2014-01-06 13:00:58 <brisque> the lag time is because it's not designed for that. starting up it needs to check back some blocks for consistency, load the unspent database, and connect to peers.
313 2014-01-06 13:01:19 <brisque> -rpcwait will hang the command you submit until it's ready.
314 2014-01-06 13:01:37 <sipa> it doesn't connect to peers before enabling rpc
315 2014-01-06 13:01:49 <sipa> but indeed it loads databases and checks consistency
316 2014-01-06 13:15:22 <cr3pe> Are there any update on the post from gavin about 2FA wallet?
317 2014-01-06 13:16:07 <cr3pe> I'm working on a prototype myself and would like to read the latest ideas about this
318 2014-01-06 13:18:51 <cr3pe> I have a prototype server and should be able to run a dedicated machine in a week or so
319 2014-01-06 13:20:53 <cr3pe> here is the post I was refering: https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/5616606
320 2014-01-06 13:29:29 <petertodd> cr3pe: bitgo implemented it actually: https://www.bitgo.com/
321 2014-01-06 13:30:22 <petertodd> cr3pe: if you make a version with BIP32 HD wallet support though that'd be good
322 2014-01-06 13:30:35 <cr3pe> petertodd: that's what I have
323 2014-01-06 13:30:44 <petertodd> cr3pe: nice!
324 2014-01-06 13:31:59 <cr3pe> petertodd: my implementation is based on bip32 hd wallet for privacy
325 2014-01-06 13:32:23 <petertodd> cr3pe: cool, bitgo doesn't do that unfortunately
326 2014-01-06 13:32:24 <cr3pe> petertodd: you don't need an account either.
327 2014-01-06 13:32:34 <petertodd> cr3pe: how does that work?
328 2014-01-06 13:32:49 <cr3pe> I will have to work on the doc
329 2014-01-06 13:33:01 <cr3pe> but
330 2014-01-06 13:33:10 <cr3pe> Here is the concept
331 2014-01-06 13:34:10 <cr3pe> You create a bitcoin address and use it as your "identity". Creating an account is signing a challenge sent by the server with your identity key.
332 2014-01-06 13:34:20 <cr3pe> It can be done automatically
333 2014-01-06 13:34:38 <cr3pe> The server then generate a random nonce for the bip32 wallet
334 2014-01-06 13:34:48 <petertodd> and where is the privkey for the address stored?
335 2014-01-06 13:35:06 <cr3pe> and sends back the pubkey of the HD wallet + the 2FA seed
336 2014-01-06 13:35:28 <cr3pe> Anywhere, can be stored on the bitcoin wallet
337 2014-01-06 13:35:52 <petertodd> I think you need to think more carefully about what exactly is your threat model and user experience supposed to be...
338 2014-01-06 13:36:27 <cr3pe> why so?
339 2014-01-06 13:36:30 <Belxjander> I did have a completely dumb idea for an OTP key cycle that is used locally...and two codes are pulled off seperate OTPs and sent with initial setup for construction of a secured link... eacfh OTP is a one-way key in the pair...
340 2014-01-06 13:36:50 <petertodd> bbl
341 2014-01-06 13:36:50 <petertodd> cr3pe: just ask yourself exactly what can compromise what
342 2014-01-06 13:37:05 <cr3pe> once the 2FA seed is on the authenticator, it's never sent again
343 2014-01-06 13:37:45 <cr3pe> you create the "account", you get the auth. seed for TOTP
344 2014-01-06 13:38:07 <cr3pe> and a pubkey to derivate addresses
345 2014-01-06 13:39:37 <cr3pe> to unlock a N of M tx, you can sign it localy and then send it to the server with the subkey index you used and the totp token
346 2014-01-06 13:39:57 <cr3pe> if eveything matches, the server returns the signed tx
347 2014-01-06 13:41:05 <cr3pe> the only risk I see is during the "account" creation, if somebody get the TOTP seed the server returns
348 2014-01-06 13:41:39 <cr3pe> then it's back as before, the 2FA is compromised, you have to rely on your wallet.dat encryption
349 2014-01-06 13:47:19 <cr3pe> Ok, I'll try to write a short description of the concept
350 2014-01-06 13:57:35 <brisque> cr3pe: include the methods of attack, and what happens in each case.
351 2014-01-06 13:58:38 <brisque> cr3pe: server compromise, man in the middle, server disappears/loses data, user destroys their 2fa token
352 2014-01-06 14:07:38 <cr3pe> yes, I'll report back after work ;)
353 2014-01-06 15:11:04 <arioBarzan> without checkpoints, if a miner had mined fake blocks from first block at difficulty 1 and he continue until block-height/263232, then he continued to mine next 8*2016 blocks at diff: 4,16,64,256,1024,4096,16384,65536 he would have reached to a longer height than current height, wouldn't he?
354 2014-01-06 15:12:13 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: you mean work, not height
355 2014-01-06 15:12:18 <Luke-Jr> height doesn't care what the block diff is
356 2014-01-06 15:13:49 <arioBarzan> I could not ask properly. what I was thinking was that could he orphan all blocks of current blockchain?
357 2014-01-06 15:14:03 <Luke-Jr> sure
358 2014-01-06 15:15:40 <arioBarzan> he at hardest part of his attack needed to mine at difficulty 65536 (4^8) right? it doesn't seam hard.
359 2014-01-06 15:39:05 <justanotheruser> Has anyone ever done this successfully? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading
360 2014-01-06 15:55:06 <nightlingo> guys... how can I calculate the transaction fee ? thanks
361 2014-01-06 15:56:54 <Luke-Jr> nightlingo: you essentially have to guess
362 2014-01-06 16:02:04 <jgarzik> nightlingo, programmatically? look at recent blocks.
363 2014-01-06 16:18:53 <nightlingo> Luke-Jr: guess? there must be a better way:)
364 2014-01-06 16:19:17 <nightlingo> jgarzik: yes programmatically. What exactly should I look for in recent blocks ?
365 2014-01-06 16:19:26 <maaku> nightlingo: you can't know what policies other nodes have
366 2014-01-06 16:19:34 <maaku> so the best you can do is look at past blocks and guess
367 2014-01-06 16:20:05 <jgarzik> nightlingo, look at the fee attached to each transaction. then look at that for each transaction in recent blocks.
368 2014-01-06 16:20:31 <kuzetsa> hmm
369 2014-01-06 16:20:33 <Luke-Jr> probably should be prepared to rewrite the transaction with higher fees if it doesn't go through
370 2014-01-06 16:20:34 <nightlingo> jgarzik: and get an average
371 2014-01-06 16:20:44 <nightlingo> jgarzik: or just get the max ?
372 2014-01-06 16:20:59 <jgarzik> nightlingo, I wouldn't get the max, more like 95% percentile
373 2014-01-06 16:21:47 <maaku> nightlingo: and only count transactions which you know of *before* they are seen in a block
374 2014-01-06 16:21:48 <nightlingo> Luke-Jr: how long till I know it doesn't go through ?
375 2014-01-06 16:21:50 <kuzetsa> wouldn't 50th percentile be more representative?
376 2014-01-06 16:22:16 <kuzetsa> I missed some context though when I reconnected / rejoined channel just now though so not sure what's being discussed
377 2014-01-06 16:22:43 <nightlingo> maaku: I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that
378 2014-01-06 16:23:05 <Luke-Jr> nightlingo: uh, as long as you like
379 2014-01-06 16:24:44 <sipa> nightlingo: miners can add transactions to blocks on their own, which weren't broadcasted on the bitcoin p2p network before
380 2014-01-06 16:24:49 <sipa> those are likely to be because of other deals miners have, and not subject to the same fee rules
381 2014-01-06 16:25:42 <sipa> so only count transactions which you saw being broadcasted yourself
382 2014-01-06 16:25:53 <nightlingo> sipa: ah ok I get it
383 2014-01-06 16:25:55 <maaku> or giant fee transactions to themselves, either to influence fee calculations or to launder coins
384 2014-01-06 16:25:55 <nightlingo> thanks guys
385 2014-01-06 16:26:20 <sipa> maaku: those would encourage others to reorganize their blocks away
386 2014-01-06 16:26:21 <sipa> if signigicant enough
387 2014-01-06 16:27:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: miners could add them specially, even if they were broadcast
388 2014-01-06 16:27:33 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I'm not aware of anyone not-broadcasting
389 2014-01-06 16:29:20 <maaku> Luke-Jr: but if they don't meet some avg relay requirements then they probably didn't saturate the network
390 2014-01-06 16:41:32 <nightlingo> hmmm... what database column type is best for storing bitcoin sums ?
391 2014-01-06 16:41:48 <ThomasZ> string :)
392 2014-01-06 16:42:26 <Luke-Jr> nightlingo: 64-bit integer
393 2014-01-06 16:42:33 <nightlingo> :)
394 2014-01-06 16:42:35 <Luke-Jr> nightlingo: always store raw amounts, not BTC
395 2014-01-06 16:43:05 <nightlingo> Luke-Jr: ok so, when I receive data from bitcoind as JSON text, I convert them to 64-bit integers?
396 2014-01-06 16:43:53 <Luke-Jr> nightlingo: multiply by 1e8
397 2014-01-06 16:43:57 <Luke-Jr> then round
398 2014-01-06 16:44:42 <nightlingo> Luke-Jr: oh cool thanks!
399 2014-01-06 16:50:25 <maaku> nightlingo: make sure not to use floating point in that multiplication
400 2014-01-06 16:51:51 <Luke-Jr> maaku: ⦠impossible :P
401 2014-01-06 16:52:16 <Luke-Jr> in most cases
402 2014-01-06 16:52:52 <maaku> Luke-Jr: you could use string manipulation to move the decimal point eight places to the right, then convert to integer
403 2014-01-06 16:53:06 <sipa> also not necessary if it's an actual ieee 754 64-bit double
404 2014-01-06 16:53:08 <maaku> or convert straight to decimal floating point and round
405 2014-01-06 16:53:25 <maaku> (I should have said don't use binary fp)
406 2014-01-06 16:54:04 <Luke-Jr> binary fp is fine, as long as it's precise enough and rounded <.<
407 2014-01-06 16:54:16 <sipa> 64-bit doubles have enough accuracy to distinguish any two valid bitcoin amounts
408 2014-01-06 16:55:15 <maaku> except for obscure edge cases where conversion pushes it over/under the cutoff limit
409 2014-01-06 16:55:42 <maaku> if you knew what precision and rounding mode was used, you could construct a string value that under fp-conversion has a different amount
410 2014-01-06 16:55:55 <maaku> whether that's important or not depends on the application
411 2014-01-06 17:43:13 <robonerd> who's the guy that started coinjoin.com again?
412 2014-01-06 17:43:18 <robonerd> he hangs on freenode
413 2014-01-06 17:43:29 <robonerd> or some domain like that
414 2014-01-06 17:44:46 <sipa> andytoshi ?
415 2014-01-06 17:47:26 <nightlingo> what is the best way to monitor transactions? I was thinking of using listtransactions, but it has a pretty weird (to me) of retrieving transactions where 0 is always the new transaction. is there any established pattern for keeping up to date with transactions ?
416 2014-01-06 17:48:03 <phantomcircuit> nightlingo, iirc i told you to just do listtransactions in a loop
417 2014-01-06 17:48:33 <phantomcircuit> even gave you an example
418 2014-01-06 17:49:22 <petertodd> robonerd: dunno about .com, but coinjoin.(org|net) are mine
419 2014-01-06 17:51:13 <nightlingo> phantomcircuit: yes, and thank you for that :) I am looking for additional patterns
420 2014-01-06 17:51:42 <nightlingo> phantomcircuit: I am trying to minimize the number of queries to the database
421 2014-01-06 17:53:04 <nightlingo> phantomcircuit: also, I need a way to sync my local database with bitcoind's database because the monitoring daemon could for some reason go offline for sometime
422 2014-01-06 17:53:35 <phantomcircuit> nightlingo, run it as a daemon
423 2014-01-06 17:53:52 <phantomcircuit> keep a cache of processed transactions to avoid hitting the database
424 2014-01-06 17:54:10 <phantomcircuit> process the previous 100k transactions when the daemon starts the first time
425 2014-01-06 17:54:14 <phantomcircuit> problem solved
426 2014-01-06 17:55:50 <nightlingo> hmmm..
427 2014-01-06 18:00:11 <nightlingo> phantomcircuit: ok thanks :)
428 2014-01-06 18:25:56 <maaku> nightlingo: -walletnotify
429 2014-01-06 18:38:29 <tla> hi. i am trying to build the quarkcoin client qt4 gui on fedora 20 and have hit the fedora openssl no ECC due to possible patent infringement issue. i am using qtcreator to build the project but guess i need to statically link the client against a local copy of the uncrippled openssl libs. not used qtcreator before so looking for some help if anyone has done this before.... thx
430 2014-01-06 18:40:27 <tla> ah just read the topic - no altcoin support. oops
431 2014-01-06 19:17:05 <Xeno-Genesis> Under what circumstances does a Get(address) operation on the Bitcoin LevelDB database return an empty list, as opposed to failing?
432 2014-01-06 19:17:53 <sipa> there are no addresses in leveldb
433 2014-01-06 19:19:45 <Xeno-Genesis> Hey sipa, I'm verifying where does this come from. I assumed from bitcoind. I'm reading Electrum Server source code.
434 2014-01-06 19:20:13 <sipa> i know nothing about electrum
435 2014-01-06 19:21:48 <sipa> leveldb get should always return an error if no entry with the specified key is found
436 2014-01-06 19:21:58 <sipa> IsNotFound
437 2014-01-06 19:22:51 <Xeno-Genesis> Yes sipa, you're right. I assumed that Electrum Server needed to access the LevelDB database from bitcoind, but I'm wrong, it has its own.
438 2014-01-06 19:23:05 <Xeno-Genesis> Thank you, I was going in circles with this one.
439 2014-01-06 19:51:48 <cr3pe> hi
440 2014-01-06 19:52:44 <cr3pe> here is a primer for a 2FA service for bitcoin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EGilx3c-lPoODfvKzP-chZbm-Wx-uPeP49A1HWDgvK4/edit?usp=sharing
441 2014-01-06 19:52:56 <cr3pe> I talked about it earlier today
442 2014-01-06 19:53:52 <cr3pe> I would like to discuss this idea. I got a first implementation that works
443 2014-01-06 20:08:17 <gmaxwell> cr3pe: meh. why are you invoking a trusted party? if the user has a dongle just use is as a signer. The new yubikeys can do this (though the software is a bit immature).
444 2014-01-06 20:09:56 <cr3pe> gmaxwell: I'm not sure I understand.
445 2014-01-06 20:10:44 <cr3pe> gmaxwell: what trusted party am I invoking?
446 2014-01-06 20:11:02 <gmaxwell> "server"
447 2014-01-06 20:12:26 <gmaxwell> cr3pe: also the way you've described this, the server can identify users in the blockchain, making it trivial to abuse the server to suppress particular users. And if the server goes out of business, all those funds are poof-gone.
448 2014-01-06 20:12:43 <cr3pe> gmaxwell: The server is giving the second transaction for the multisignature