1 2014-01-12 00:00:00 <swulf--> i mean.. you could think of sub-accounts? CEO gives accounts to his regions, regions give accounts to the states, states give accounts to the counties, etc?
2 2014-01-12 00:00:08 <swulf--> same derivation path should be used for each
3 2014-01-12 00:01:13 <sipa> i mean, if i input something that is already an m/i', you should use "/1/j" as derivation path for internal chain instead of "m/i'/1/j"
4 2014-01-12 00:01:30 <sipa> (you know the depth of the input)
5 2014-01-12 00:01:55 <sipa> ACTION afk
6 2014-01-12 00:01:56 <swulf--> but the code doesn't know how you arrived at that depth - it could be m/i/1 and not m/i'/1
7 2014-01-12 00:02:02 <swulf--> ok, later:)
8 2014-01-12 00:02:04 <swulf--> thanks for the feedback
9 2014-01-12 00:02:26 <sipa> well, you can do a sanity check
10 2014-01-12 00:02:53 <sipa> but indeed, you can't determine whether the pre-computed chain matches the correct path structure already
11 2014-01-12 00:02:59 <swulf--> i'd also be concerned about changing the derivation path without the user really noticing...?
12 2014-01-12 00:04:11 <sipa> maybe it's easier to have a dropdown box for the input as well ("master key", "account key", "account internal chain", "account external chain", with sanity checks whether the input could match what it claims to be)
13 2014-01-12 00:04:39 <swulf--> hmm
14 2014-01-12 00:04:43 <sipa> and if you input something that's claimed to be an account internal chain, only the account internal chain option and custom are available below
15 2014-01-12 00:04:45 <swulf--> is it reasonable to expect the user to know what he has?
16 2014-01-12 00:04:52 <sipa> you can guess :p
17 2014-01-12 00:05:14 <sipa> if you're using the default structure, you can always guess right, i think
18 2014-01-12 00:05:20 <swulf--> yeah
19 2014-01-12 00:05:27 <sipa> as you know the child index and depth
20 2014-01-12 00:05:37 <sipa> anyway, i'm just brainstorming
21 2014-01-12 00:05:45 <sipa> feel free to ignore me giving you extra work :)
22 2014-01-12 00:05:51 <swulf--> I still think that m/i'/0/j'/0 would be a valid sub-account, so that'd have to be taken into consideration
23 2014-01-12 00:06:06 <sipa> that'd be something custom in any case
24 2014-01-12 00:06:23 <swulf--> yeah
25 2014-01-12 00:07:15 <sipa> my reasoning: as a user who doesn't know the details, if i input a account external chain xpub, and select "account external chain key" as derivation, i expect to get what my wallet software will generate for it
26 2014-01-12 00:07:52 <sipa> which will be m/i'/0/j, not m/i'/0/k/0/j
27 2014-01-12 00:08:18 <sipa> anyway, afk!
28 2014-01-12 00:09:05 <swulf--> later:)
29 2014-01-12 00:50:35 <dredredre> Am I correct in saying that bitcoind will eventaully receive every bitcoin transaction in the form of a tx message?
30 2014-01-12 00:50:59 <sipa> or inside a block
31 2014-01-12 00:53:41 <dredredre> besides running bitcoind across many servers is there a way to ensure that every tx is received?
32 2014-01-12 00:54:01 <wyager> Before going in a block?
33 2014-01-12 00:54:05 <dredredre> s/tx/transaction in the form of a tx/
34 2014-01-12 00:54:07 <dredredre> yes
35 2014-01-12 00:54:13 <wyager> You're likely to recieve them all anyway
36 2014-01-12 00:54:14 <midnightmagic> dredredre: no.
37 2014-01-12 00:54:16 <wyager> they move very quickly
38 2014-01-12 00:54:19 <wyager> but you can't guarantee it
39 2014-01-12 00:54:32 <sipa> there are frequently blocks that contain transaction which were never broadcast separately
40 2014-01-12 00:54:36 <midnightmagic> dredredre: In the event that there is a transaction which is not standard, or has too few fees, it may not even be relayed to you.
41 2014-01-12 00:54:38 <sipa> in fact, every block contains one
42 2014-01-12 00:54:45 <sipa> (the coinbase)
43 2014-01-12 00:55:09 <wyager> Entirely true
44 2014-01-12 00:55:15 <justanotheruser> Could I create a block without a coinbase tx?
45 2014-01-12 00:55:28 <sipa> no
46 2014-01-12 00:55:29 <wyager> Why would you want to?
47 2014-01-12 00:55:32 <wyager> and no
48 2014-01-12 00:55:34 <sipa> it would be invalid
49 2014-01-12 00:55:36 <midnightmagic> dredredre: There may be miner agreements with the person who issued the tx not to relay it at all (for example if they are paying significant fees for special transactions)
50 2014-01-12 00:55:38 <justanotheruser> I see
51 2014-01-12 00:55:44 <sipa> by definition, the first transaction in every block is the coinbase
52 2014-01-12 00:55:49 <justanotheruser> wyager: for testing
53 2014-01-12 00:55:53 <wyager> Hmm
54 2014-01-12 00:55:59 <wyager> Expensive test
55 2014-01-12 00:56:00 <justanotheruser> or curiosity
56 2014-01-12 00:56:07 <justanotheruser> wyager: not on testnet
57 2014-01-12 00:56:11 <wyager> Ah
58 2014-01-12 00:56:55 <midnightmagic> justanotheruser: You can underpay yourself. I did.
59 2014-01-12 00:57:19 <justanotheruser> midnightmagic: by a satoshi right?
60 2014-01-12 00:57:31 <midnightmagic> justanotheruser: Plus I destroyed some fees in the process
61 2014-01-12 00:57:41 <midnightmagic> because I hardcoded my reward to 49.99999999
62 2014-01-12 00:57:52 <justanotheruser> oh
63 2014-01-12 00:58:51 <justanotheruser> midnightmagic: sad that now there won't be 21m coins generated :(
64 2014-01-12 00:58:59 <midnightmagic> justanotheruser: There weren't going to be anyway.
65 2014-01-12 00:59:08 <justanotheruser> Or whatever the really close decimal was
66 2014-01-12 00:59:30 <midnightmagic> 20999999.97689999 <-- that many
67 2014-01-12 00:59:57 <midnightmagic> It would have been: 2099999997690000
68 2014-01-12 01:00:44 <justanotheruser> midnightmagic: no one else has done this?
69 2014-01-12 01:00:44 <midnightmagic> And the final Satoshi will be mined in block 6930000-1
70 2014-01-12 01:01:01 <midnightmagic> justanotheruser: Don't think so.
71 2014-01-12 01:01:21 <midnightmagic> There's something weird with the genesis block too which I think makes it unspendable.
72 2014-01-12 01:01:35 <justanotheruser> midnightmagic: a bug maybe?
73 2014-01-12 01:01:38 <midnightmagic> no.
74 2014-01-12 01:02:15 <midnightmagic> I don't recall what it is. It's block 0. I am discounting the existence of a block 0 in my total count. Probably gmaxwell remembers.
75 2014-01-12 01:02:17 <justanotheruser> Is the coinbase different from the other coinbases?
76 2014-01-12 01:04:19 <sipa> midnightmagic: less, the output of the genesis block doesn't count
77 2014-01-12 01:04:29 <sipa> and there have been "overwritten" coins since too
78 2014-01-12 01:05:02 <sipa> total value of all unspent outputs now is 12249714.79395749
79 2014-01-12 01:05:09 <midnightmagic> sipa: I'm ignoring genesis block in my count. The overwritten coins-- were those the coinbase dupes?
80 2014-01-12 01:05:14 <sipa> yes
81 2014-01-12 01:05:36 <midnightmagic> hrm..
82 2014-01-12 01:06:17 <sipa> if you ignore the coinbase output, there are 209999 subsidies of 50, 210000 of 25, 210000 of 12.5, ...
83 2014-01-12 01:06:35 <midnightmagic> hrm..
84 2014-01-12 01:06:45 <midnightmagic> What was the special thing about the genesis block again?
85 2014-01-12 01:06:49 <lechuga__> so many of those 50 just sitting around never spent :(
86 2014-01-12 01:07:03 <sipa> midnightmagic: satoshi screwed up, or it was intentional
87 2014-01-12 01:08:08 <lechuga__> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119645.0
88 2014-01-12 01:08:14 <lechuga__> re: block 0 unspendability
89 2014-01-12 01:08:16 <sipa> nothing special about it, except that the genesis block is just used to initialize the database, but isn't actually processed when doin so
90 2014-01-12 01:09:12 <midnightmagic> in that case, then, 2099994997689999 not assuming dupes exist..
91 2014-01-12 01:10:11 <sipa> ;;calc 209999*50+([blocks]-209999)*25
92 2014-01-12 01:10:12 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
93 2014-01-12 01:10:15 <sipa> ;;blocks
94 2014-01-12 01:10:16 <gribble> 279994
95 2014-01-12 01:10:24 <gribble> 12249825
96 2014-01-12 01:10:24 <sipa> ;;calc 209999*50+(279994-209999)*25
97 2014-01-12 01:10:51 <gribble> 110.20604251
98 2014-01-12 01:10:51 <sipa> ;;calc 209999*50+(279994-209999)*25 - 12249714.79395749
99 2014-01-12 01:11:13 <sipa> ^- how many wasted coins, besides the unspendable genesis output
100 2014-01-12 01:11:42 <lechuga__> "wasted" ?
101 2014-01-12 01:12:04 <midnightmagic> You're deriving it based on the UTXO totals, sipa?
102 2014-01-12 01:12:07 <sipa> yes
103 2014-01-12 01:12:30 <sipa> lechuga__: there have been two coinbase transactions with the same has as earlier coinbase transaction
104 2014-01-12 01:12:41 <midnightmagic> sipa: How are you querying that? Is there a patch or an rpc call you're using?
105 2014-01-12 01:12:43 <sipa> which resulted in those entries being overwritten in the database of the reference implementation
106 2014-01-12 01:12:49 <sipa> midnightmagic: gettxoutsetinfo
107 2014-01-12 01:12:58 <lechuga__> ic
108 2014-01-12 01:13:11 <wyager> sipa: Was that intentional?
109 2014-01-12 01:13:19 <midnightmagic> ACTION waits patiently and assumes his client is operating normally :)
110 2014-01-12 01:13:20 <sipa> unlikely
111 2014-01-12 01:13:22 <lechuga__> im assuming the fact that they hashed the same implies there was a bug and not extreme luck?
112 2014-01-12 01:13:28 <sipa> midnightmagic: it takes a few seconds
113 2014-01-12 01:13:33 <midnightmagic> ah there it is.
114 2014-01-12 01:13:33 <sipa> lechuga__: indeed
115 2014-01-12 01:14:35 <midnightmagic> sipa: the 10.20604251 are fees destroyed over time including the ones in my block? Are you aware of any other fees destroyed aside from the dupe coinbases?
116 2014-01-12 01:14:41 <sipa> no
117 2014-01-12 01:14:48 <midnightmagic> that's a damn lot of fees.
118 2014-01-12 01:14:51 <sipa> i don't know the specific instances of that waste
119 2014-01-12 01:15:29 <sipa> oh, provably unspendable outputs are also dropped
120 2014-01-12 01:15:36 <sipa> as they don't enter the UTXO set
121 2014-01-12 01:15:53 <wyager> e.g. OP_FALSE or whatever?
122 2014-01-12 01:16:02 <sipa> OP_RETURN
123 2014-01-12 01:16:05 <wyager> yeah
124 2014-01-12 01:17:24 <midnightmagic> thanks, sipa. I guess I'll have to reset what I assert to people then, and call it an upper bound
125 2014-01-12 01:18:14 <midnightmagic> that reminds me..
126 2014-01-12 01:18:19 <sipa> ;;calc 20999949.97689999 - (210000*50+(279994-209999)*25 - 12249714.79395749)
127 2014-01-12 01:18:20 <gribble> 20999789.7709
128 2014-01-12 01:18:28 <sipa> ^- upper bound on the number of BTC
129 2014-01-12 01:19:47 <sipa> wait
130 2014-01-12 01:19:53 <gribble> 20999839.7709
131 2014-01-12 01:19:53 <sipa> ;;calc 20999999.97689999 - (210000*50+(279994-209999)*25 - 12249714.79395749)
132 2014-01-12 01:19:56 <sipa> ^ that
133 2014-01-12 01:20:11 <sipa> i had subtracted the genesis coinbase twice
134 2014-01-12 01:22:03 <midnightmagic> that number is too round
135 2014-01-12 01:22:22 <sipa> yeah, it's 20999839.77085748 actually
136 2014-01-12 01:22:23 <midnightmagic> 20999839.77085749
137 2014-01-12 01:22:38 <midnightmagic> ..
138 2014-01-12 01:23:01 <sipa> double check that :)
139 2014-01-12 01:23:16 <wyager> "You see, there will only ever be twenty million nine hundred ninety nine thousand, eight hundred thirty nine point seven seven oh eight five seven four nine Bitcoins" <---part of my Bitcoin elevator pitch
140 2014-01-12 01:25:50 <wyager> "but then only twenty million nine hundred ninety nine thousand, eight hundred thirty nine point seven seven oh eight five seven four nine people will ever have a full bitcoin! How could a system like that ever work?", some of them respond
141 2014-01-12 01:27:33 <midnightmagic> I think you're subtracting my underpay twice.
142 2014-01-12 01:27:43 <sipa> nope
143 2014-01-12 01:27:48 <sipa> wait
144 2014-01-12 01:27:53 <sipa> maybe i do!
145 2014-01-12 01:28:16 <sipa> yes, i do
146 2014-01-12 01:28:48 <midnightmagic> cool
147 2014-01-12 01:32:28 <sipa> midnightmagic: which block was yours that had the 1-satoshi output loss?
148 2014-01-12 01:33:52 <midnightmagic> sipa: Hrm. 124724
149 2014-01-12 01:34:15 <Luke-Jr> I think there's been far more coins lost than that.
150 2014-01-12 01:34:24 <lechuga__> lol@elevator pitch
151 2014-01-12 01:35:33 <midnightmagic> Luke-Jr: we were using the UTXO as the canonical source of the totals and then speculating where all they were.
152 2014-01-12 01:35:47 <midnightmagic> sipa: I also destroyed the fees.
153 2014-01-12 01:36:04 <midnightmagic> (by accident, I'm not going to pretend that was on purpose.)
154 2014-01-12 01:36:29 <midnightmagic> so, bash then: R=$((50 * 100000000 )); TOT=0; LAST=-1; VAL=0 ; while true; do echo $VAL : $R : $TOT ; VAL=$(( VAL+210000 )) ; TOT=$((TOT + R*210000 )) ; [[ $LAST = -1 ]] && TOT=$((TOT - 1 - 5000000000 - 11020604250 )) ; R=$(($R/2 )) ; [[ "$LAST" = "$TOT" ]] && { echo done; break; } ; LAST=$TOT ; done
155 2014-01-12 01:36:37 <sipa> midnightmagic: ha, b.i lists that block as having -0.00000001 fee
156 2014-01-12 01:36:57 <sipa> there's no BIP yet about provably-unspendable outputs?
157 2014-01-12 01:37:00 <midnightmagic> yeah hehe i love being "that guy"
158 2014-01-12 01:39:34 <justanotheruser> ;;bc,count
159 2014-01-12 01:39:35 <gribble> Error: "bc,count" is not a valid command.
160 2014-01-12 01:39:43 <gribble> 280001
161 2014-01-12 01:39:43 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,blocks
162 2014-01-12 01:40:09 <justanotheruser> thanks
163 2014-01-12 01:41:00 <midnightmagic> np
164 2014-01-12 01:41:24 <midnightmagic> sipa: It was actually BlueMatt's idea originally.
165 2014-01-12 01:41:45 <sipa> what was?
166 2014-01-12 01:41:49 <midnightmagic> the underpay
167 2014-01-12 01:44:23 <midnightmagic> hehe sorry BlueMatt
168 2014-01-12 01:44:27 <wyager> What was the purpose of it?
169 2014-01-12 01:44:48 <midnightmagic> wyager: Fun, and then I realised that we are without a Satoshi, and now the blockchain will forever be without one Satoshi.
170 2014-01-12 01:44:56 <sipa> wyager: http://xkcd.com/242/
171 2014-01-12 01:44:57 <wyager> :'(
172 2014-01-12 01:47:12 <sipa> anyone running 0.8.6 or below, still?
173 2014-01-12 01:47:49 <sipa> (not git head after sept 23)
174 2014-01-12 01:47:50 <justanotheruser> sipa: is there an update? I'm running 0.8.6?
175 2014-01-12 01:48:06 <sipa> justanotheruser: can you tell me the output of running gettxoutsetinfo ?
176 2014-01-12 01:48:22 <sipa> justanotheruser: no released update, but many people here are likely running git head
177 2014-01-12 01:49:04 <justanotheruser> sipa: one second I just started the daemon
178 2014-01-12 01:49:19 <sipa> thanks!
179 2014-01-12 01:50:02 <justanotheruser> sipa: does it matter if my blockchain is behind by a few hours?
180 2014-01-12 01:50:06 <sipa> no
181 2014-01-12 01:53:45 <justanotheruser> it's taking an unusually long time to start. I keep getting "error: couldn't connect to server". I'll highlight you when I can run that command.
182 2014-01-12 01:54:29 <sipa> no worries, no hurry
183 2014-01-12 01:55:00 <midnightmagic> ACTION feels much better.
184 2014-01-12 01:55:20 <midnightmagic> ACTION kills the stupid ending-in-2033 coins graph from the bitcoin wiki
185 2014-01-12 01:55:20 <sipa> why?
186 2014-01-12 01:56:03 <midnightmagic> sipa: :-) I've just saved my future self the frustration of explaining that 2033 is not the last year for rewards.
187 2014-01-12 01:56:18 <midnightmagic> .. and having people link me the wiki png
188 2014-01-12 01:56:50 <sipa> ah
189 2014-01-12 01:57:12 <midnightmagic> :-)
190 2014-01-12 01:57:36 <midnightmagic> sipa: Thanks for the chat, always appreciate being corrected
191 2014-01-12 01:58:14 <sipa> heh, i wasn't trying to correct anyone :)
192 2014-01-12 01:58:23 <sipa> i just like being thorough :p
193 2014-01-12 01:58:32 <sipa> or nitpicking, if you prefer
194 2014-01-12 01:58:47 <sipa> ACTION also feels good; created 3 pullreqs today!
195 2014-01-12 02:00:55 <maaku> "bestblock" : "00000000000000024d6200a5416d905f16078f7aa9f5eb8b8b61ebdc7767a9b3",
196 2014-01-12 02:00:55 <maaku> "height" : 279981,
197 2014-01-12 02:00:55 <maaku> sipa: {
198 2014-01-12 02:00:55 <maaku> "transactions" : 2581146,
199 2014-01-12 02:00:56 <maaku> "txouts" : 8264811,
200 2014-01-12 02:00:58 <maaku> "bytes_serialized" : 290786328,
201 2014-01-12 02:01:00 <maaku> "hash_serialized" : "92b1a3eaafe14bdf25be9af691c0d8314e8889990dd57ed251fdc46f407272c4",
202 2014-01-12 02:01:02 <maaku> "total_amount" : 12249389.80231183
203 2014-01-12 02:01:04 <maaku> }
204 2014-01-12 02:01:27 <justanotheruser> thanks maaku. Not really sure what's going wrong
205 2014-01-12 02:02:10 <justanotheruser> If I haven't started it in a while, it still should start the server, then start validating the blocks right?
206 2014-01-12 02:03:03 <sipa> yes
207 2014-01-12 02:03:08 <maaku> justanotheruser: there's a period just after you started where it's validating the previous N (288?) blocks
208 2014-01-12 02:03:08 <sipa> what's in debug.log?
209 2014-01-12 02:03:15 <maaku> and it doesn't respond to RPC commands then
210 2014-01-12 02:05:13 <justanotheruser> maaku: that might be it. I can run a namecoin server and a bitcoin server at the same time right?
211 2014-01-12 02:08:30 <justanotheruser> maaku: I think you're right. "2014-01-12 02:03:44 Verifying last 288 blocks at level 3" Probably didn't help that I kept opening and closing it
212 2014-01-12 02:09:05 <sipa> maaku: thanks!
213 2014-01-12 03:00:19 <RedEmerald> where can i get some testnet coins? http://tpfaucet.appspot.com/ is giving me an error :(
214 2014-01-12 03:05:16 <justanotheruser> RedEmerald: what is your address?
215 2014-01-12 03:05:45 <RedEmerald> mrZXmeV8ehxKWDhzwQ7fbkPcYz5uX58875 :)
216 2014-01-12 03:07:03 <justanotheruser> RedEmerald: 074ce1bf048344a7efe0fc790cf885f8610838b24019d9d581f634803668c85b
217 2014-01-12 03:07:10 <RedEmerald> its working!
218 2014-01-12 03:07:23 <RedEmerald> thanks dude! should i just send them back to you when im done?
219 2014-01-12 03:07:33 <justanotheruser> RedEmerald: send them to a faucet if you want
220 2014-01-12 03:07:56 <RedEmerald> k
221 2014-01-12 04:14:35 <shamoon> is there a maximum number of commands i can batch and send to the RPC at one time?
222 2014-01-12 06:18:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: Ever build bitcoin with -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 ? Replaces the STL with some paranoid sanity/bounds checking version. Breaks the abi though, so I'd have to recompile boost and I'm wondering if its worth trying out.
223 2014-01-12 07:16:57 <Lifeofcray> i'm looking into setting up an online wallet
224 2014-01-12 07:17:10 <Lifeofcray> which open source ones do you guys prefer?
225 2014-01-12 07:18:03 <wyager> Blockchain.info is nice
226 2014-01-12 07:18:10 <wyager> You mean exclusively online?
227 2014-01-12 07:18:19 <wyager> Like, via a web browser?
228 2014-01-12 07:59:13 <ralphi> Hey all, just messing around with bitcoind and trying to go through the raw transactions example from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Raw_Transactions, anyone in here got time to help me debug what I'm doing wrong?
229 2014-01-12 08:20:54 <michagogo> cloud|ralphi: I might
230 2014-01-12 08:21:26 <michagogo> cloud|What method are you using? Bitcoin-Qt/d's createrawtransaction?
231 2014-01-12 08:23:47 <ralphi> michagogo|cloud: yes
232 2014-01-12 08:24:38 <ralphi> michagogo|cloud: I'm following the example that has one online updated blockchain machine and signing a transaction on the offline one
233 2014-01-12 08:25:19 <ralphi> not sure how strict this channel is on URLS but it's here https://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt
234 2014-01-12 08:28:43 <miedda> hello, I'm running a vagrant instance of ubuntu 12.04 and am trying to compile bitcoin, and armoury with a test net so i can walk through the various principles, and eventually cross compile for the raspberry pi. I have followed the instructions in the doc/build-unix.md, and am either getting wallet or database errors when trying to start the bitcoind daemon with make start through the testnet-in-a-box repo
235 2014-01-12 08:38:58 <shesek> ralphi, what is the issue you're running into?
236 2014-01-12 08:39:59 <ralphi> shesek: so I've done the signrawtransaction with all the parameters
237 2014-01-12 08:40:13 <shesek> ralphi, is it returning as "complete"?
238 2014-01-12 08:40:22 <ralphi> shesek: and gotten back a hex hash and complete: false
239 2014-01-12 08:41:04 <shesek> are you providing it with the scriptPubKey?
240 2014-01-12 08:41:15 <ralphi> yes
241 2014-01-12 08:41:31 <Lifeofcray> do you guys know of any good gambling scripts that's opensource
242 2014-01-12 08:41:33 <Lifeofcray> for bitcoin
243 2014-01-12 08:42:06 <ralphi> shesek: is there any value in copying you the whole command incl json?
244 2014-01-12 08:42:45 <shesek> you mean value for someone who's seeing it?
245 2014-01-12 08:42:54 <ralphi> bitcoind signrawtransaction 0100000001cef824500bc877c2c5ecf1160fcf1b1e7b8617f4dfef07d7e03ca757ec8be8a80000000000ffffffff0180f0fa02000000001976a9146ff9a5a0e176dbd21af38d3bc1aee8e22d39ce2488ac00000000 '[{"txid":"a8e88bec57a73ce0d707efdff417867b1e1bcf0f16f1ecc5c277c80b5024f8ce","vout":0,"scriptPubKey":"76a914a1808f737e8d2bbe8937c377472ad67842c344c188ac"}]'
246 2014-01-12 08:45:19 <shesek> are you sure the offline machine has the private key for mvEu6U9UtnDoAEWSB2ewy99JAkpTjNzfWS?
247 2014-01-12 08:45:27 <shesek> try running `validateaddress mvEu6U9UtnDoAEWSB2ewy99JAkpTjNzfWS`
248 2014-01-12 08:49:37 <ralphi> was running the command on the wrong machine
249 2014-01-12 08:49:48 <ralphi> shesek: now I feel a bit dumb
250 2014-01-12 08:49:54 <shesek> also, you're trying to pay 0.5 btc, but in tx a8e88bec57a73ce0d707efdff417867b1e1bcf0f16f1ecc5c277c80b5024f8ce it seems like its the 2nd output that has 0.5, but you're using the 1st output with 1.4999 btc
251 2014-01-12 08:50:14 <shesek> it could work too (you'll just be paying about ~1 btc in fees), but make sure you didn't confuse the output index
252 2014-01-12 08:51:01 <shesek> oh, heh, don't worry about it, everyone makes those silly mistakes :)
253 2014-01-12 08:51:07 <ralphi> cheers :)
254 2014-01-12 08:53:00 <shesek> Lifeofcray, this isn't the appropriate place to ask about that kind of stuff.
255 2014-01-12 08:59:17 <Diablo-D3> http://worrydream.com/MeanwhileAtCodeOrg/
256 2014-01-12 08:59:51 <justanotheruser> Diablo-D3: funny, I was just reading that
257 2014-01-12 09:00:02 <Diablo-D3> heh
258 2014-01-12 09:01:08 <justanotheruser> They had a boy vs girl coding competition. Basically they counted the number of boy submissions vs girl submissions. 4chan.org/g/ made a script so you could autosubmit code for the girls. The girls at one point were winning with 97%
259 2014-01-12 09:02:20 <justanotheruser> Funny how a website that is supposed to be teaching the nation to code allows 20k submissions from the same IP with the same useragent
260 2014-01-12 09:04:39 <Diablo-D3> justanotheruser: heh, Ive done that with perl and mechanize
261 2014-01-12 09:04:41 <Diablo-D3> its really easy
262 2014-01-12 09:26:37 <djoot> In 7 hours I got about 300 unique ips that have tried to resolve dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org on my computer. Any ideas what's going on?
263 2014-01-12 09:59:24 <djoot> many of the dns requests come from distinct subnets, I'm thinking they might be infected by some malware. Perhaps there is some other explanation?
264 2014-01-12 10:04:48 <michagogo> cloud|djoot: that's one of the DNS seeds that Bitcoin uses to find its initial peers
265 2014-01-12 10:08:45 <djoot> michagogo|cloud: yep, but why are they trying to resolve it on my computer. and that's the only dns seed they are trying to resolve
266 2014-01-12 10:11:16 <djoot> my dns server wasn't even listening to the internet, it is now, but I still don't resolve any requests except to some hosts.
267 2014-01-12 10:12:09 <djoot> it's very strange
268 2014-01-12 10:13:24 <Tykling> is your ip 192.3.11.20 ?
269 2014-01-12 10:13:33 <djoot> nope
270 2014-01-12 10:13:40 <djoot> djoot.se
271 2014-01-12 10:13:40 <Tykling> didn't think so, heh
272 2014-01-12 10:14:35 <Tykling> strange
273 2014-01-12 10:15:06 <Tykling> well, not that strange actually
274 2014-01-12 10:15:43 <Tykling> $ dig +short dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. ns
275 2014-01-12 10:15:43 <Tykling> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org.
276 2014-01-12 10:15:59 <djoot> there whole ranges connecting to my port 53
277 2014-01-12 10:16:06 <Tykling> $ dig +short dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. a
278 2014-01-12 10:16:07 <Tykling> 108.48.68.175
279 2014-01-12 10:16:07 <Tykling> 212.83.128.57
280 2014-01-12 10:16:09 <Tykling> etc etc
281 2014-01-12 10:16:56 <djoot> yeah, but I'm not a public DNS server
282 2014-01-12 10:17:09 <Tykling> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. has a self referencing ns record, which effectively means that dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. gets asked about itself, and since it resolves to ip addresses of bitcoin peers, they get asked
283 2014-01-12 10:17:18 <djoot> aah
284 2014-01-12 10:17:38 <djoot> Luke-Jr: WTF! :)
285 2014-01-12 10:19:30 <Tykling> it does seem a little strange that that NS record is there, I'll give you that :)
286 2014-01-12 10:19:38 <Tykling> took me a little while to spot it
287 2014-01-12 10:19:44 <Tykling> a bit of sunday dig'ing
288 2014-01-12 10:19:46 <Tykling> :)
289 2014-01-12 10:21:25 <djoot> what, wait.. NS record is jun.dashjr.org?
290 2014-01-12 10:21:53 <Tykling> not if you ask dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org.
291 2014-01-12 10:22:36 <djoot> I see.
292 2014-01-12 10:23:34 <djoot> thanks for DIGging :)
293 2014-01-12 10:25:53 <pooh___> Hi. I have a question about bitcoind API. How to get summary amount of "recive" + "generate" transacoins by address.
294 2014-01-12 10:25:57 <pooh___> I want to know how much bitcoins recieved by one of my address in wallet.
295 2014-01-12 10:26:03 <djoot> Tykling: Luke-Jr should fix his DNS records?
296 2014-01-12 10:26:04 <pooh___> bitcoin getreceivedbyaddress <address> doesn't show me "generate" transactions, only recieved.
297 2014-01-12 10:26:26 <djoot> or maybe it's not him? :)
298 2014-01-12 10:28:03 <Tykling> perhaps it's on purpose, a way of distributing it or something but it seems pretty weird, I'd ask him and please tell me what he says
299 2014-01-12 10:28:58 <djoot> It can't be correct? He's effectively saying that all bitcoin nodes are dns servers?
300 2014-01-12 10:32:17 <djoot> pooh___: Generated coins have to mature for 120? blocks before they show up in balance, maybe that's the problem?
301 2014-01-12 10:32:26 <djoot> I think
302 2014-01-12 10:34:26 <pooh___> No, I already have 200 confirmations
303 2014-01-12 10:37:50 <djoot> pooh___: try listreceivedbyaddress
304 2014-01-12 10:40:29 <pooh___> same, shows 0 for addresses with positive balance
305 2014-01-12 10:46:52 <pooh___> listaddressgroupings show right current balance. But how to calculate Total Received
306 2014-01-12 11:01:10 <djoot> pooh___: hmm.. maybe listreceivedbyaddress is broken, it *sounds* like it should show how much was received by that address
307 2014-01-12 11:05:58 <pooh___> djoot: or maybe there should be another API calls listgeneratebyaddress / getgeneratebyaddress ?
308 2014-01-12 11:06:06 <midnightmagic> djoot: http://www.zytrax.com/books/dns/ch8/ns.html
309 2014-01-12 11:07:45 <djoot> thanks midnightmagic
310 2014-01-12 11:07:53 <djoot> that was wierd
311 2014-01-12 11:08:36 <djoot> don't click?
312 2014-01-12 11:08:50 <midnightmagic> .. it explains the NS record mechanism.
313 2014-01-12 11:09:03 <midnightmagic> it is likely not luke's fault that you are being hammered with resolve requests.
314 2014-01-12 11:10:04 <djoot> hmm.. i tried to wget.. I got denied, then i opened with links and it fucked up my terminal.. then I tried with wget again and I got it
315 2014-01-12 11:10:07 <djoot> damn NSA
316 2014-01-12 11:12:15 <djoot> well, if he has a self-referencing NS record on dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org, and It has a bunch of A pointers to random bitcoin nodes, I'm kind of thinking it is at least partly his fault
317 2014-01-12 11:13:21 <djoot> midnightmagic: ^^
318 2014-01-12 11:14:19 <midnightmagic> Nope.
319 2014-01-12 11:17:06 <djoot> midnightmagic: Bill Gates then?
320 2014-01-12 11:18:54 <miedda> can someone please help, I'm trying to compile bitcoin branch 0.8.6, everything compiles fine, but i am getting the error, Error: Error loading wallet.dat: Wallet corrupted, 2014-01-12 11:17:12 Error reading next record from wallet database
321 2014-01-12 11:19:07 <miedda> I'm running ubuntu 12.04 through vagrant
322 2014-01-12 11:20:38 <midnightmagic> :-)
323 2014-01-12 11:23:12 <djoot> dig +short dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. ns
324 2014-01-12 11:23:15 <djoot> oops
325 2014-01-12 11:23:30 <djoot> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. 47 IN NS dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org.
326 2014-01-12 11:23:40 <djoot> does this look right?
327 2014-01-12 11:24:20 <djoot> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. 60 IN A 174.129.130.96
328 2014-01-12 11:24:20 <djoot> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. 60 IN A 174.59.92.42
329 2014-01-12 11:24:20 <djoot> when: dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. 60 IN A 162.243.18.105
330 2014-01-12 11:24:34 <djoot> etc.. are not DNS servers?
331 2014-01-12 11:25:14 <djoot> I'm not an expert, but it don't look right to me
332 2014-01-12 11:30:09 <djoot> actually, I don't even know what host says the NS record is dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org, I'm really confused
333 2014-01-12 11:30:12 <djoot> :)
334 2014-01-12 11:30:12 <djoot> again
335 2014-01-12 11:30:27 <sipa> that looks like a misconfiguration
336 2014-01-12 11:30:44 <sipa> it should use a different name for the nameserver itself
337 2014-01-12 11:31:42 <Tykling> :)
338 2014-01-12 11:31:50 <Tykling> indeed
339 2014-01-12 11:32:37 <djoot> maybe I broke it, in that case I'm really ashamed :)
340 2014-01-12 11:34:15 <sipa> you?
341 2014-01-12 11:35:08 <djoot> no, pheuh! it's jun.dashjr.org that has the faulty NS record
342 2014-01-12 11:35:59 <djoot> dig NS dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org @jun.dashjr.org
343 2014-01-12 11:36:42 <sipa> yup
344 2014-01-12 11:37:59 <djoot> sipa: yeah, you know, who knows how the internet works nowadays with quantum cats all over, I might have accidentally broken a part of it :)
345 2014-01-12 11:38:35 <sipa> haha
346 2014-01-12 11:43:26 <netg> /
347 2014-01-12 12:03:10 <michagogo> cloud|Has anyone got the sha256sum for the bootstrap.dat at 250,000?
348 2014-01-12 12:16:19 <danboid> Is there a good guide to creating an (BTC-derived) altcoin for those with little to no programming experience?
349 2014-01-12 12:16:48 <netg> coingen.io
350 2014-01-12 12:17:12 <danboid> netg: Which is down now - have you tried it?
351 2014-01-12 12:17:46 <netg> no
352 2014-01-12 12:17:58 <danboid> I know they charge 0.1 BTC to create your own coin but thats all I know about it
353 2014-01-12 12:18:43 <danboid> Is there then some ongoing charge for them to host it or does it produce code you can use/host yourself?
354 2014-01-12 12:55:59 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
355 2014-01-12 12:55:59 <sipa> ;;later tell Luke-Jr you've probably misconfigured the -n flag of bitcoin-seeder to be dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org instead of jun.dashjr.org; people running nodes are getting random DNS queries because the NS records points to the seeder itself
356 2014-01-12 14:47:41 <warren> How much improved is bitcoin master in address/transaction scalability over 0.8?
357 2014-01-12 14:53:14 <michagogo> cloud|hmm
358 2014-01-12 14:53:26 <michagogo> cloud|Github won't show me a list of changes from 0.8.2 to master
359 2014-01-12 14:53:38 <michagogo> cloud|Anyone have a running log?
360 2014-01-12 14:54:37 <sipa> warren: not much
361 2014-01-12 14:54:56 <michagogo> cloud|This comparison is big! We're only showing the most recent 250 commits
362 2014-01-12 14:55:45 <sipa> you want a diff, or a list of commits?
363 2014-01-12 14:56:08 <matjeh> thats a bit rubbish of github, do they do that on the paid repos too?
364 2014-01-12 14:56:26 <michagogo> cloud|sipa: Well, really just a list of changes
365 2014-01-12 14:56:55 <michagogo> cloud|(if multiple commits belong to one change, it'd be fine if they were shown as one, but showing each commit is fine too)
366 2014-01-12 14:57:51 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: http://0bin.net/paste/Wakwx1Cg8fMZw5LX#8iVZqfxg54KAWvZoBKz6woVoQO9AtPeWbS20j9O4dYU=
367 2014-01-12 14:58:09 <michagogo> cloud|Ah, thanks
368 2014-01-12 14:58:36 <michagogo> cloud|What order is that? Newest to oldest commit?
369 2014-01-12 14:59:01 <sipa> topologic, i believe
370 2014-01-12 14:59:02 <shesek> I'm not sure what you tried with Github, but you can try https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.8.2...master
371 2014-01-12 14:59:14 <shesek> (thought it only shows the last 250 commits)
372 2014-01-12 14:59:26 <michagogo> cloud|shesek: heh, I was just saying that I was looking for more than that
373 2014-01-12 14:59:53 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: all merges: http://0bin.net/paste/Q3Bg+FAWXgNyDbS6#3Cgrx2SOM7t3an/78UWoSj8tEBc86mYANMwTEJqayQY=
374 2014-01-12 15:00:39 <michagogo> cloud|sipa: Hmm, that might be more useful than the commits
375 2014-01-12 15:00:55 <michagogo> cloud|Oh, actually, maybe not...
376 2014-01-12 15:01:10 <michagogo> cloud|(since the numbers don't come with attached descriptions...)
377 2014-01-12 15:01:14 <matjeh> why dont you just clone it locally?
378 2014-01-12 15:02:10 <michagogo> cloud|Uh-oh.
379 2014-01-12 15:02:39 <michagogo> cloud|I was running git head from a couple days ago for a bit, to use linearize.py
380 2014-01-12 15:02:59 <michagogo> cloud|Now when trying to run 0.8.6, "Error opening block database."
381 2014-01-12 15:03:38 <michagogo> cloud|Is the issue one that will just be solved by rebuilding the block database, or is it something else and it's erroneously asking this?
382 2014-01-12 15:05:03 <sipa> your disk isn't full or read-only or something?
383 2014-01-12 15:05:14 <michagogo> cloud|Nope
384 2014-01-12 15:05:26 <warren> sipa: mainly faster loading wallet, but not much else
385 2014-01-12 15:05:27 <warren> ?
386 2014-01-12 15:05:40 <michagogo> cloud|Just checked, the git head I was using does work and reopen
387 2014-01-12 15:05:57 <michagogo> cloud|But 0.8.6 complains
388 2014-01-12 15:06:48 <matjeh> 0.8.6 doesn't start for me with my default LANG envvar
389 2014-01-12 15:06:54 <matjeh> if i export LANG=C it works
390 2014-01-12 15:07:03 <matjeh> haven't investigated that yet
391 2014-01-12 15:07:04 <michagogo> cloud|C: 677G 436G 242G 65% /cygdrive/c
392 2014-01-12 15:07:23 <sipa> warren: indeed
393 2014-01-12 15:07:38 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION clicks OK and hopes
394 2014-01-12 15:08:12 <sipa> git head works, but 0.8.6 doesn't? that's strange...
395 2014-01-12 15:09:01 <michagogo> cloud|0.8.6 reindexing now
396 2014-01-12 15:09:09 <michagogo> cloud|Seems to have started up okay
397 2014-01-12 15:11:21 <michagogo> cloud|Hmm, never really measured how fast a reindex goes before
398 2014-01-12 15:11:40 <michagogo> cloud|Right now, about 45,000 blocks in, it's going at 200-250 blocks per second
399 2014-01-12 15:12:06 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):041:0> while true do
400 2014-01-12 15:12:06 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):042:1* new=b.getblockcount
401 2014-01-12 15:12:06 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):043:1> puts new-last
402 2014-01-12 15:12:06 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):044:1> last=new
403 2014-01-12 15:12:06 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):045:1> sleep 1
404 2014-01-12 15:12:07 <michagogo> cloud|irb(main):046:1> end
405 2014-01-12 15:12:12 <michagogo> cloud|Gah
406 2014-01-12 15:12:13 <sipa> it will slow down :D
407 2014-01-12 15:12:14 <michagogo> cloud|Sorry!
408 2014-01-12 15:12:36 <michagogo> cloud|I thought that that would trigger IRCCloud's built-in pastebin thing
409 2014-01-12 15:12:51 <michagogo> cloud|https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/IoygF8Vz
410 2014-01-12 15:12:53 <michagogo> cloud|Ah
411 2014-01-12 15:13:03 <michagogo> cloud|Apparently I had that turned off :-/
412 2014-01-12 15:16:32 <michagogo> cloud|Maintaining speed, 100k blocks so far
413 2014-01-12 15:17:19 <Luke-Jr> sipa: oops!
414 2014-01-12 15:17:23 <Luke-Jr> should be fixed now
415 2014-01-12 15:17:27 <Luke-Jr> sorry about that
416 2014-01-12 15:19:46 <michagogo> cloud|Hmm, `git push` doesn't seem to be working for me
417 2014-01-12 15:19:52 <michagogo> cloud|It's just hanging
418 2014-01-12 16:17:25 <gwb3> Is there a bitcoin documentation project I can contribute to?
419 2014-01-12 16:17:45 <michagogo> cloud|gwb3: What do you mean by a bitcoin documentation project?
420 2014-01-12 16:19:05 <gwb3> michagogo|cloud: for example, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin - is there a documentation component/effort where I can help start contributing to documentation surrounding bitcoin development?
421 2014-01-12 16:19:31 <michagogo> cloud|gwb3: You may be interested in the wiki, at http://bitcoin.it
422 2014-01-12 16:19:48 <michagogo> cloud|A lot of it is old, outdated, or wrong
423 2014-01-12 16:20:14 <gwb3> michagogo|cloud: thanks, yes, i saw that - do you think that would be the area where i would see technical documentation as well?
424 2014-01-12 16:20:15 <michagogo> cloud|(note that there's an antispam fee of a bitcent to get edit rights)
425 2014-01-12 16:20:41 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script | Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Forth-like, Script ...
426 2014-01-12 16:20:41 <michagogo> cloud|gwb3: There's technical stuff there too, like ,,(bc,wiki script), ,,(bc,wiki transaction), etc
427 2014-01-12 16:20:42 <gribble> http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/transactions | A transaction is a signed section of data that is broadcast to the network and collected into blocks. It typically references previous transaction(s) and dedicates a ...
428 2014-01-12 16:21:00 <gwb3> i am a developer, have read about bitcoin, and want to volunteer on the technical side of things
429 2014-01-12 16:21:13 <michagogo> cloud|(I may be misunderstanding what you mean...)
430 2014-01-12 16:21:20 <gwb3> ..thought documentation might be a good part to both get up to speed and start to get an understanding of various elements within the project
431 2014-01-12 16:21:47 <gwb3> gribble: thanks
432 2014-01-12 16:22:01 <michagogo> cloud|gwb3: gribble's a bot :P
433 2014-01-12 16:22:24 <gwb3> hah - ok, sorry, new around here
434 2014-01-12 16:22:34 <michagogo> cloud|Those two links were in response to the , ,(bc,wiki script) and , ,(bc,wiki transaction) in my preceding message
435 2014-01-12 16:22:38 <michagogo> cloud|No problem :-)
436 2014-01-12 16:22:53 <gwb3> ok
437 2014-01-12 16:31:27 <Michail1> morning
438 2014-01-12 17:42:01 <realazthat> are there any projects that index the blockchain by address (so I can lookup balances of addresses), via the RPC interface (or by parsing the blockchain themselves)
439 2014-01-12 17:42:47 <realazthat> well
440 2014-01-12 17:42:48 <shesek> realazthat, see searchrawtransaction from sipa's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2802
441 2014-01-12 17:43:18 <realazthat> ah cool
442 2014-01-12 17:43:24 <shesek> alternatively, if you don't mind relaying on centralised services, you can use blockchain.info's listunspent api
443 2014-01-12 17:43:25 <realazthat> I guess I would have to build that separately
444 2014-01-12 17:43:37 <realazthat> I do mind heh
445 2014-01-12 17:44:00 <realazthat> mmm
446 2014-01-12 17:44:03 <shesek> yes, its not part of bitcoin, you would have to build from that branch
447 2014-01-12 17:44:10 <realazthat> ok
448 2014-01-12 17:44:11 <realazthat> sipa: ping
449 2014-01-12 17:44:49 <realazthat> as to your comment "but I'm really against using an address index as a way to track new payments",
450 2014-01-12 17:45:05 <realazthat> I want to do a setup where I have two bitcoin clients running,
451 2014-01-12 17:45:28 <realazthat> one runs generates addresses and keeps the wallet, the other is exposed to the internet and watches for transactions
452 2014-01-12 17:45:46 <realazthat> is that not a good reason?
453 2014-01-12 17:47:14 <shesek> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2861 (also sipa's)
454 2014-01-12 17:47:21 <shesek> or the newer https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3383
455 2014-01-12 17:48:08 <shesek> though I didn't use it myself, so I'm not sure how well that works. I did use searchrawtransaction and it works well.
456 2014-01-12 17:50:19 <sipa> realazthat: that's what watch-only wallet are for
457 2014-01-12 17:50:25 <realazthat> ah cool
458 2014-01-12 17:50:36 <sipa> spare yourself the burden of needing to index every transaction ever
459 2014-01-12 17:50:37 <realazthat> ok I'll google "watch-only wallet"
460 2014-01-12 17:50:46 <sipa> there's a pullreq for them
461 2014-01-12 17:51:04 <sipa> though we'll bip32 wallets before they are really useful
462 2014-01-12 17:51:18 <realazthat> mmmm
463 2014-01-12 17:51:30 <realazthat> ok I think imma have to make a custom solution :/
464 2014-01-12 17:51:35 <realazthat> I wanna do this for altcoins as well
465 2014-01-12 17:51:44 <sipa> meh :)
466 2014-01-12 17:51:54 <realazthat> so that sorta makes it difficult to use a fork
467 2014-01-12 17:51:56 <realazthat> heh
468 2014-01-12 17:52:31 <sipa> i'm all for altcoins as a way for ezperimenting with more than what bitcoin can do because of economic risk
469 2014-01-12 17:52:41 <sipa> but i've yet to see one that i find interesting
470 2014-01-12 17:52:54 <realazthat> namecoin is interesting
471 2014-01-12 17:53:02 <realazthat> primecoin is interesting, at least to me
472 2014-01-12 17:53:16 <realazthat> the rest are me-too-coins :D
473 2014-01-12 17:53:18 <sipa> namecoin is interesting in that it solves a different problem... though i think the solution is very flawed
474 2014-01-12 17:53:55 <realazthat> yeah, in anycase, I am not endorsing any altcoin
475 2014-01-12 17:53:57 <sipa> primecoin is an interesting variation on the PoW thing, but i'm not sure the result is actually.more useful than sha256 partial preimages
476 2014-01-12 17:54:01 <realazthat> I just want to be able to handle them generically
477 2014-01-12 17:54:38 <sipa> my opinion is that an altcoin that i find interesting will likely be so different that it makes no sense to try to do it with compatible source.code
478 2014-01-12 17:55:29 <realazthat> heh would you not find something like a SCIP-based generic PoW coin interesting?
479 2014-01-12 17:56:06 <sipa> sure, but why limit yourself?
480 2014-01-12 17:56:20 <realazthat> limit yourself to what
481 2014-01-12 17:56:24 <sipa> if you're creating ancurrency from scratch, you can vhange anything
482 2014-01-12 17:56:31 <sipa> you can fiz all things that bitcoin lacks
483 2014-01-12 17:57:06 <sipa> i don't think there are many things i would reuse directly
484 2014-01-12 17:57:19 <shesek> sipa, how do you feel about vbuterin's turing complete cryptocurrency?
485 2014-01-12 17:57:34 <realazthat> sipa: mmm true
486 2014-01-12 17:58:01 <sipa> it sounds interesting, but very hard to make it work in practice (dos potential, ...)
487 2014-01-12 17:58:08 <realazthat> sipa: it is much easier to simply replace the PoW function though
488 2014-01-12 17:58:09 <sipa> i don't know enough about it though
489 2014-01-12 17:58:21 <realazthat> which is what some altcoins (primecoin) do
490 2014-01-12 17:58:26 <sipa> i know
491 2014-01-12 17:58:28 <realazthat> you can get up and running in a week heh
492 2014-01-12 17:58:36 <sipa> which is why idon't find them interesting
493 2014-01-12 17:58:44 <jcorgan> sipa: i'm iterating over all the possible sources to create a bip0032 wallet master node
494 2014-01-12 17:58:53 <realazthat> redoing it from scratch is much harder and doesn't benefit from the peer review and overcoming known caveats that bitcoin already has
495 2014-01-12 17:59:12 <jcorgan> you could provide the raw entropy >128 bits
496 2014-01-12 17:59:37 <jcorgan> you could deserialize an bip0032 serialized xprivkey
497 2014-01-12 17:59:46 <realazthat> sipa, shesek: ok thanks for feedback
498 2014-01-12 17:59:57 <jcorgan> you could deserialize a bip0038 encoded key
499 2014-01-12 18:00:16 <sipa> bip0038 only gives a key, not a chaincode
500 2014-01-12 18:00:18 <jcorgan> you could deserialize a encoded key using the new proposed format on bct
501 2014-01-12 18:00:25 <sipa> it's designed for a single key afaik
502 2014-01-12 18:00:44 <jcorgan> ah, ok. i haven't read it in detail as it seems it will not become accepted
503 2014-01-12 18:01:36 <jcorgan> i have wallet code in Python that can pass all the test vectors
504 2014-01-12 18:01:47 <sipa> cool
505 2014-01-12 18:01:57 <jcorgan> just trying to think now how to wrap it in a command-line script
506 2014-01-12 18:03:19 <shesek> realazthat, no problem
507 2014-01-12 18:03:45 <realazthat> sipa: what I think imma do now is write an indexer :(
508 2014-01-12 18:03:49 <realazthat> that does it via rpc
509 2014-01-12 18:04:16 <sipa> it will take ages
510 2014-01-12 18:04:19 <realazthat> haha
511 2014-01-12 18:04:23 <realazthat> but once it is done
512 2014-01-12 18:04:27 <sipa> even to just iterate over all transactions takes days or so
513 2014-01-12 18:04:31 <realazthat> it will keep up
514 2014-01-12 18:04:35 <realazthat> yeah
515 2014-01-12 18:04:40 <realazthat> I know
516 2014-01-12 18:04:55 <sipa> and it already requires an index to be able to iterate over the transactions
517 2014-01-12 18:05:00 <sipa> why do you need this?
518 2014-01-12 18:05:18 <sipa> fully indexed blickchains are a ridiculously unscalable solution
519 2014-01-12 18:05:24 <sipa> for a very simple problem
520 2014-01-12 18:05:37 <realazthat> I want watch-only-wallet functionality for all bitcoin-based coins essentially
521 2014-01-12 18:05:37 <sipa> (unless you want to build a blockexplorer)
522 2014-01-12 18:05:42 <realazthat> I already have :D
523 2014-01-12 18:05:46 <sipa> i know
524 2014-01-12 18:05:59 <sipa> but apart from that functionality, there's no use for it
525 2014-01-12 18:06:22 <sipa> please please please don't build infrastructure that relies on having even the full blockchain available
526 2014-01-12 18:06:38 <sipa> i would hate it if people end up being locked in to solutions which require that
527 2014-01-12 18:06:57 <realazthat> it is for personal use
528 2014-01-12 18:07:15 <sipa> well, you do what you want of course
529 2014-01-12 18:07:19 <sipa> but i hate the idea
530 2014-01-12 18:07:32 <sipa> (which is why i abandoned the searchrawtransaction pullreq)
531 2014-01-12 18:07:35 <netg> /
532 2014-01-12 18:07:40 <realazthat> well, how else can I get watch-only-wallet functionality
533 2014-01-12 18:07:46 <realazthat> without using a fork
534 2014-01-12 18:07:56 <sipa> by having watch-only-wallet functionality
535 2014-01-12 18:07:59 <sipa> it's trivial
536 2014-01-12 18:08:11 <shesek> sipa, its still useful for some cases. how would you do it for Bitrated, where I need to lookup unspent inputs for arbitrary addresses that aren't known ahead of time?
537 2014-01-12 18:08:22 <shesek> or, say, an instawallet-like web wallet
538 2014-01-12 18:08:30 <sipa> shesek: sounds broken (but i don't know the solution)
539 2014-01-12 18:09:23 <shesek> the client-side script builds the multisig script and p2sh address, and needs to lookup the unspent inputs to show balances and allow spending them
540 2014-01-12 18:10:08 <shesek> I don't really see a way around storing a full address index (or at least a p2sh-only index in that specific case)
541 2014-01-12 18:10:31 <sipa> shesek: i don't understand the problem
542 2014-01-12 18:10:56 <realazthat> as an aside, is there a way to detect if the chain is swapped out for a longer chain
543 2014-01-12 18:10:58 <sipa> you just need a wallet that watches for payments to a particular address?
544 2014-01-12 18:11:25 <sipa> i really hate it how people consider searching the historical chain "easy" just because it exists
545 2014-01-12 18:11:45 <shesek> its not a particular address, its users addresses that aren't known ahead of time
546 2014-01-12 18:12:01 <jcorgan> sipa: there are lots of people who come here asking how to "get notified" of an incoming TX to an address or set of addresses
547 2014-01-12 18:12:07 <shesek> and aren't stored on the server (for privacy reasons)
548 2014-01-12 18:12:24 <sipa> jcorgan: i know, and bitcoind sucks for this
549 2014-01-12 18:12:32 <sipa> but it's not a technically hard problem
550 2014-01-12 18:12:49 <jcorgan> well, i like zeromq messaging
551 2014-01-12 18:12:55 <sipa> searching the historical chain is a hard engineering problem
552 2014-01-12 18:13:00 <sipa> if you want to make it scale
553 2014-01-12 18:13:09 <jcorgan> and i see that this is something being considered for the grand refactoring
554 2014-01-12 18:13:26 <sipa> shesek: but users do know it, no?
555 2014-01-12 18:13:53 <realazthat> sipa: why is it hard if you keep an index?