1 2014-02-26 00:09:16 <actuallygoodnews> would have helped to figure out if it's reasonable 700K+ bitcoins were stolen or not
  2 2014-02-26 00:11:28 <Inception> Anyone has a list of recommended commits against the tx malleability stuff? We want to apply these to altcoins.
  3 2014-02-26 00:11:52 <Inception> With bitcoin its easy: build from master
  4 2014-02-26 00:12:18 <Inception> As i understand, the master includes normalized txid and nospendzeroconfchange?
  5 2014-02-26 00:14:21 <lianj> phantomcircuit: i doubt they all went missing just by malleability over a long time
  6 2014-02-26 00:15:57 <Luke-Jr> Inception: scamcoins are off-topic here, and real altcoins should have a competent developer who can figure it out
  7 2014-02-26 00:16:22 <Luke-Jr> (real altcoins are also off-topic btw)
  8 2014-02-26 00:16:41 <gmaxwell> Inception: no, master does not include normalized txid. And generall I don't think I'd recommend it. Expirence is showing it results in some dangerous misunderstandings.
  9 2014-02-26 00:17:11 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: hold up
 10 2014-02-26 00:17:13 <gmaxwell> maybe it would turn out useful someplace enough to offset the risks it creates, I'm unsure, I was hoping to see its usefulness demonstrated but it seems like that won't happen.
 11 2014-02-26 00:17:14 <Diablo-D3> _real_ altcoins?
 12 2014-02-26 00:17:15 <Diablo-D3> no such thing
 13 2014-02-26 00:17:22 <Diablo-D3> thats a myth
 14 2014-02-26 00:17:46 <sipa> such alt, wow
 15 2014-02-26 00:18:46 <Luke-Jr> I have some very alty chips.
 16 2014-02-26 00:24:48 <tlrobinson_> if anyone is bored i'd love feedback on this post before i publish it http://blog.tlrobinson.net/preview/b2KOXThCsaCiM21XS4J/
 17 2014-02-26 00:25:27 <skinnkavaj> http://paulmillr.com/posts/the-story-of-telegram/
 18 2014-02-26 00:25:34 <skinnkavaj> The idea behind the app was a messenger for an average user, for all people, which is secure and fast. Not some another thing no one uses besides a few nerds (like BitMessage).
 19 2014-02-26 00:26:10 <Inception> skinnkavaj: www.tox.im
 20 2014-02-26 00:29:57 <CodeShark> tlrobinson: Some people are pointing to Gox’s failure as a reason Bitcoin needs more governmental regulation. While I don’t disagree entirely, I believe cryptography and peer-to-peer consensus protocols can eventually replace the need for certain types of regulation entirely.
 21 2014-02-26 00:30:25 <CodeShark> that was a quote
 22 2014-02-26 00:30:48 <CodeShark> tlrobinson, you don't disagree entirely with Gox being the reason Bitcoin needs more governmental regulation?
 23 2014-02-26 00:31:48 <CodeShark> not sure I'd choose those words
 24 2014-02-26 00:32:55 <gjs278> I disagree entirely
 25 2014-02-26 00:33:09 <gjs278> nobody can stop me from sending coins to japanese magic card exchanges
 26 2014-02-26 00:33:18 <CodeShark> lol
 27 2014-02-26 00:33:25 <tlrobinson_> heh i figured that would be a point of contention, yeah
 28 2014-02-26 00:34:47 <alex_fun> return dPriority > COIN * 144 / 250; Large (in bytes) low-priority (new, small-coin) transactions     // need a fee. well what is 144 and 250 mean in this line?
 29 2014-02-26 00:35:58 <alex_fun> a bit sleepy and yet to figure out :)
 30 2014-02-26 00:39:00 <GMP> a network of colorcoin to USD/EUR gateways could be much more scaleable/robust/secure than centralized exchange, not to mention zero fee
 31 2014-02-26 00:39:24 <alex_fun> GMP ripple allows for it
 32 2014-02-26 00:39:33 <alex_fun> as to zero fee imo its fantasy :D
 33 2014-02-26 00:39:43 <alex_fun> who would change all the time for 0 fee? :D
 34 2014-02-26 00:39:45 <alex_fun> u?
 35 2014-02-26 00:41:25 <GMP> about 10% block space is zero fee transactions, atomic colorcoin exchange with SIGHASH_SINGLE bids are small, some of them could be free
 36 2014-02-26 00:41:57 <wallet42> does anyone remember how deep the reorg was during chainfork last year?
 37 2014-02-26 00:42:01 <alex_fun> GMP again who will change into usd and back for free?
 38 2014-02-26 00:42:02 <CodeShark> colorcoins atop bitcoin will not scale
 39 2014-02-26 00:42:04 <alex_fun> as u offering it?
 40 2014-02-26 00:42:32 <alex_fun> wallet42: what chain fork? simply fix bugs
 41 2014-02-26 00:42:39 <alex_fun> and forks are not a big issue :D
 42 2014-02-26 00:42:50 <CodeShark> there was a chain fork march 11 of last year
 43 2014-02-26 00:42:58 <CodeShark> I think it was something like 25 blocks?
 44 2014-02-26 00:43:00 <CodeShark> or less
 45 2014-02-26 00:43:01 <CodeShark> 12
 46 2014-02-26 00:43:06 <alex_fun> caused by?
 47 2014-02-26 00:43:07 <CodeShark> don't remember
 48 2014-02-26 00:43:15 <CodeShark> caused by a bug :p
 49 2014-02-26 00:43:25 <alex_fun> :D
 50 2014-02-26 00:43:25 <alex_fun> exactly
 51 2014-02-26 00:43:57 <CodeShark> so bugs CAN be a big deal if they cause different versions of the software to disagree on valid chains!
 52 2014-02-26 00:44:27 <CodeShark> the fork was resolved in favor of the buggy version because it was more widely deployed at the time
 53 2014-02-26 00:44:35 <rdponticelli> It was because clients with bdb behaved differently than new leveldb, wasn't it?
 54 2014-02-26 00:44:42 <CodeShark> yes
 55 2014-02-26 00:44:45 <sipa> CodeShark: not "more widely deployed"
 56 2014-02-26 00:44:47 <wallet42> alex_fun: a bug in a library, bdb vs leveldb
 57 2014-02-26 00:44:48 <wallet42> yes
 58 2014-02-26 00:44:59 <wallet42> okay 25 thx
 59 2014-02-26 00:45:00 <CodeShark> well, not by the most powerful miners, sipa
 60 2014-02-26 00:45:00 <sipa> CodeShark: it was the only option, as the old version was compatible with the new and not the other way around
 61 2014-02-26 00:45:06 <CodeShark> ok
 62 2014-02-26 00:45:16 <CodeShark> that's true
 63 2014-02-26 00:45:28 <wallet42> usual reorgs are just 1 or mayby 2 blocks right?
 64 2014-02-26 00:45:29 <sipa> (and some powerful mining pools offered to switch back)
 65 2014-02-26 00:45:31 <sipa> wallet42: yes
 66 2014-02-26 00:46:37 <wallet42> hm. lets continue mining on the old chain… diff is still low there ;)
 67 2014-02-26 00:46:46 <alex_fun> sipa  return dPriority > COIN * 144 / 250; Large (in bytes) low-priority (new, small-coin) transactions     // need a fee. well what is 144 and 250 mean in this line?
 68 2014-02-26 00:46:49 <alex_fun> any ideas? :D
 69 2014-02-26 00:47:40 <sipa> 144 = one day worth of blocks
 70 2014-02-26 00:47:46 <sipa> 250 = typical size of a transaction
 71 2014-02-26 00:47:52 <alex_fun> oki ty
 72 2014-02-26 00:48:02 <sipa> meaning a typical size transaction needs to wait one day if it spends 1 BTC
 73 2014-02-26 00:48:16 <alex_fun> 1 day is kinda long?
 74 2014-02-26 00:48:31 <midnightmagic> sipa: Is there some convenient way of calculating tx size given hex data output from createrawtransaction?
 75 2014-02-26 00:48:35 <wallet42> minee will be 1000 satoshi in 0.9
 76 2014-02-26 00:48:37 <wallet42> minfee
 77 2014-02-26 00:48:51 <midnightmagic> I've been dividing by two.. but it seems that's not the real size.
 78 2014-02-26 00:48:52 <sipa> midnightmagic: ... divide by two?
 79 2014-02-26 00:48:56 <midnightmagic> :-/
 80 2014-02-26 00:49:21 <wallet42> or multiply by 0.5
 81 2014-02-26 00:49:28 <alex_fun> 1000 satoshi thats alot
 82 2014-02-26 00:49:51 <alex_fun> but miners get extra
 83 2014-02-26 00:49:57 <alex_fun> :)
 84 2014-02-26 00:50:06 <wallet42> yeah like .5 $US cents
 85 2014-02-26 00:50:29 <alex_fun> it can be fixed at 2 cents, here is my 2 cents lol
 86 2014-02-26 00:51:12 <sipa> wallet42: that's the *relay* fee
 87 2014-02-26 00:51:26 <CodeShark> not sure there's a good solution for the relay fee because relayers don't get any of it :)
 88 2014-02-26 00:51:27 <sipa> it may end up having little to do with the fee you need to get it mined
 89 2014-02-26 00:51:41 <sipa> CodeShark: it's just dos protection, unfortunately
 90 2014-02-26 00:51:48 <CodeShark> the economic model for relay fee is already broken
 91 2014-02-26 00:52:07 <wallet42> makes sense, first lower the relay fee then lower the minerfee
 92 2014-02-26 00:52:19 <wallet42> other way around would really work i guess
 93 2014-02-26 00:52:27 <CodeShark> miners can set whatever fee they like - the economics there are sound
 94 2014-02-26 00:52:27 <wallet42> wouldn'y
 95 2014-02-26 00:52:32 <alex_fun> sipa btw how come 0.1.0 got way less lines of code. was it working? I tried to start exe wont work on win 7 :D
 96 2014-02-26 00:52:33 <sipa> wallet42: there is no "minerfee"
 97 2014-02-26 00:52:37 <CodeShark> but the relay fee cannot be determined by economics
 98 2014-02-26 00:52:53 <CodeShark> unfortunately
 99 2014-02-26 00:53:20 <sipa> wallet42: there's only a relay fee and a transaction creation fee
100 2014-02-26 00:53:21 <alex_fun> perhaps I can recompile exe,  but seems some files qt files are missing in 0.1.0
101 2014-02-26 00:53:34 <sipa> alex_fun: until 0.4.x, there was no qt
102 2014-02-26 00:53:44 <wallet42> well miners can decide what txes they mine ? so if 90% of them dont like 1000 satoshi it may take 130 block to get confirmation
103 2014-02-26 00:54:06 <alex_fun> miners imo can charge min 1 usd
104 2014-02-26 00:54:06 <sipa> wallet42: miners likely will just pick the highest fee they see
105 2014-02-26 00:54:15 <sipa> and let transactions compute
106 2014-02-26 00:54:17 <alex_fun> then its nice , dices going to be like haha
107 2014-02-26 00:54:19 <sipa> *compete
108 2014-02-26 00:54:42 <wallet42> has 0.9 the relay double spending txes?
109 2014-02-26 00:54:46 <alex_fun> sipa more like pools choose as they control most hash
110 2014-02-26 00:54:53 <wallet42> i remember there was a proposal
111 2014-02-26 00:54:59 <alex_fun> so pools can raise fees as they see fit and pocket them too right?
112 2014-02-26 00:55:07 <wallet42> but i didnt follow the development
113 2014-02-26 00:55:17 <sipa> wallet42: no
114 2014-02-26 00:59:30 <neotap> ;;ticker
115 2014-02-26 00:59:32 <gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 543.91, Best ask: 544.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 543.91, 24 hour volume: 111582.17304400, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 545.8, 24 hour vwap: 480.910341557
116 2014-02-26 01:04:03 <joelsbeard> ;;ticker
117 2014-02-26 01:04:05 <gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 545.99, Best ask: 546.57, Bid-ask spread: 0.58000, Last trade: 543.5, 24 hour volume: 111968.33438987, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 547.75, 24 hour vwap: 481.3583311
118 2014-02-26 01:06:33 <Persopolis> begining to think debian was a poor choice for btc dev :)
119 2014-02-26 01:07:08 <justanotheruser> Okay. So I have a concern with bitcoin 0.9 (and Bitcoin in general). With the new small fees, it will cost about $3k/day to DoS the network. This seems like a good way to dump and pump
120 2014-02-26 01:07:21 <Luke-Jr> Persopolis: at least it isn't Fedora
121 2014-02-26 01:08:56 <Persopolis> think i'll burn my VM and start from scratch tomorrow - any recomendations for a distro with least pain on the dependencies
122 2014-02-26 01:11:51 <CBit> justanotheruser: the DoS becomes useless if you pay a slightly higher fee though. Right?
123 2014-02-26 01:14:06 <justanotheruser> CBit: Good point
124 2014-02-26 01:16:00 <sipa> i don't understand?
125 2014-02-26 01:16:26 <gmaxwell> he thinks the dos is merely out compeating free/priority txn.
126 2014-02-26 01:16:35 <gmaxwell> I don't have any concern about that.
127 2014-02-26 01:16:39 <gmaxwell> or at least not much of any.
128 2014-02-26 01:16:49 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: have you considered making a BIP for https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac? or is it too unrelated to Bitcoin
129 2014-02-26 01:17:23 <gmaxwell> I hadn't considered it.
130 2014-02-26 01:17:42 <gmaxwell> I thought it too unrelated to bitcoin itself, but perhaps it would make sense.
131 2014-02-26 01:17:53 <actuallygoodnews> would be really good IMO... as soon as one shared wallet implements it, I believe others will follow
132 2014-02-26 01:18:16 <actuallygoodnews> of course, it doesn't completely prevent insolvency but it makes it a lot harder
133 2014-02-26 01:19:32 <actuallygoodnews> I am considering making an example implementation in node.js or ruby but not sure I have the crypto chops to pull it off
134 2014-02-26 01:20:45 <skinnkavaj> Can anyone explain why is Cryptsy such a mess? IS it because of the progamming language chosen?
135 2014-02-26 01:21:35 <actuallygoodnews> skinnkavaj: programming language is rarely an issue.. more likely the developers are an issue
136 2014-02-26 01:22:51 <tonokip> is it possible to have gitian only use 1 core?
137 2014-02-26 01:23:25 <sipa> tonokip: -j1, iirc
138 2014-02-26 01:23:48 <tonokip> that works with gbuild ?
139 2014-02-26 01:24:08 <tonokip> i guess i can check that
140 2014-02-26 01:25:28 <Persopolis> what distro do you guys use for your dev work
141 2014-02-26 01:25:45 <Persopolis> on btc
142 2014-02-26 01:26:30 <tonokip> sipa, ty
143 2014-02-26 01:27:24 <dhill> so many getaddr.bitnodes.io connections
144 2014-02-26 01:32:19 <GMP> "<CodeShark> colorcoins atop bitcoin will not scale" do you mean that for SVP size of the proof bound by depth of the tree? full nodes can handle colorcoin utxo set similar way as they handle it utxo now... if you are a trader, you can afford full node, if not - withdraw to gateway directly
145 2014-02-26 01:32:44 <CodeShark> yes, I'm talking about SPV
146 2014-02-26 01:33:19 <CodeShark> also, there's the issue of potential frontrunning miners
147 2014-02-26 01:33:57 <CodeShark> it just seems like a very poor solution
148 2014-02-26 01:34:05 <CodeShark> bitcoin wasn't designed for this kind of thing
149 2014-02-26 01:34:11 <CodeShark> why are we trying to force it to do these things?
150 2014-02-26 01:34:19 <CodeShark> if we want to do these things, let's take a step back and design it properly
151 2014-02-26 01:35:32 <CodeShark> bitcoin demonstrates that a decentralized timestamping mechanism is possible if you add an intrinsic currency as a financial incentive
152 2014-02-26 01:35:49 <CodeShark> now let's apply this idea to networks that are actually designed to do the really cool stuff we're talking about!
153 2014-02-26 01:37:17 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: save the "possible" for after you can short Bitcoin in major non-bitcoin markets for a while…
154 2014-02-26 01:38:48 <GMP> overhead in SIGHASH_SINGLE transactions (bids) is small/close to zero, cross-chain echange is probably more expensive
155 2014-02-26 01:39:44 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: let's also separate bitcoin the currency from bitcoin the protocol :)
156 2014-02-26 01:41:01 <CodeShark> if the objective of the currency is decentralized generation at an exponentially decreasing rate, that could be enforced on other networks, too :)
157 2014-02-26 01:41:56 <CodeShark> anyhow, perhaps this is wizards talk :)
158 2014-02-26 01:42:28 <GMP> etherium contracts can accept bitcoin SVP-proof as a payment, but thats one-way street
159 2014-02-26 01:43:16 <CodeShark> yes, unfortunately
160 2014-02-26 01:43:41 <GMP> (just in case "actually designed to do the really cool stuff" means etherium)
161 2014-02-26 01:44:28 <CodeShark> it could be any future network - ethereum could be a next generation network, but surely even ethereum will be obsolete one day :)
162 2014-02-26 01:48:44 <CodeShark> perhaps we should have #bitcoin-miracle-workers
163 2014-02-26 01:49:04 <CodeShark> because this is unlikely to happen in #bitcoin-wizards either
164 2014-02-26 01:49:46 <dhill> 20:45:49 2014-02-25 [INF] BMGR: Processed 1 block in the last 3m38.27s (231 transactions, height 287832, 2014-02-25 20:45:13 -0500 EST)
165 2014-02-26 01:55:20 <wallet42> hm http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ relaunched but they got rid of historic data?
166 2014-02-26 01:56:33 <super3> love to get some feedback on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3747, or maybe some ACKS
167 2014-02-26 02:02:36 <gmaxwell> ah good, they're no longer claming total BS data.
168 2014-02-26 02:23:58 <ProfMac> Is anyone going to the Texas bitcoin conference in Austin just before SXSW?
169 2014-02-26 02:25:30 <benten> ProfMac, I will
170 2014-02-26 02:26:06 <ProfMac> I'm going down to Austin in a day or two.  I only now learned about the conference.
171 2014-02-26 02:36:22 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: /me
172 2014-02-26 02:38:56 <ProfMac> I'm deciding whether to stay in town for the conference.
173 2014-02-26 02:39:46 <andytoshi> ProfMac: i'll be around town
174 2014-02-26 02:40:11 <ProfMac> andytoshi, are you based in Austin?
175 2014-02-26 02:40:25 <andytoshi> ProfMac: yup, at least during the school year
176 2014-02-26 02:40:36 <Tiraspol> hm
177 2014-02-26 02:41:13 <ProfMac> I'm going to Austin in the next few days.  I'm based near north 290 & I-35
178 2014-02-26 02:41:59 <super3> its supposed to be a pretty huge confrence
179 2014-02-26 03:55:15 <jcorgan> cl
180 2014-02-26 04:07:13 <Diablo-D3> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303880604579405852448992982
181 2014-02-26 04:08:20 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3, zero info beyond headline, really
182 2014-02-26 04:08:41 <Diablo-D3> no but I knew that was going to happen
183 2014-02-26 04:08:47 <Diablo-D3> everyone was like NAW HE'LL GET AWAY WITH IT
184 2014-02-26 04:08:52 <Diablo-D3> well guess what
185 2014-02-26 04:08:53 <Diablo-D3> I was right
186 2014-02-26 04:08:54 <Diablo-D3> again
187 2014-02-26 04:08:55 <Diablo-D3> as usual
188 2014-02-26 04:08:58 <Diablo-D3> like clockwork
189 2014-02-26 04:12:39 <dexX7> Diablo-D3: take this one: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101446338, more info
190 2014-02-26 04:14:30 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, shrug, receiving a subpoena isn't necessarily prologue to prosecution
191 2014-02-26 04:14:35 <phantomcircuit> but yeah it could be
192 2014-02-26 04:16:29 <Diablo-D3> dexX7: thx
193 2014-02-26 04:26:49 <super3> heh, if I was Karpeles i would be more worried about angry bitcoin users than a subpoena
194 2014-02-26 05:04:34 <jcrubino> is the address version the same as the address prefix?
195 2014-02-26 05:44:06 <jcrubino> how can I find the prefix of an address being checked?
196 2014-02-26 05:48:57 <kadoban> jcrubino: it's the first byte of the address once you undo the base58 encoding, if you're talking about the address version or whatever
197 2014-02-26 06:09:08 <copumpkin> anyone have details on why kaminsky thinks this? https://twitter.com/tallystick/status/336212032414154752
198 2014-02-26 06:09:10 <copumpkin> amiller?
199 2014-02-26 06:09:48 <amiller> lol copumpkin, i'm currently editing a detailed timeline of the events leading to this silly bet :p
200 2014-02-26 06:10:26 <copumpkin> I look forward to retweeting it :D
201 2014-02-26 06:11:05 <amiller> there are plenty of good reasons to want to change the proof of work function, i'm going to present a paper at oakland in may (i also rmabled about it at london 2012) about how one unutilized potential is to have the pow have some useful side effect like encouraging storage or archival or utxo data to help the network
202 2014-02-26 06:11:27 <amiller> but i don't think dakami cared about that, his point was something about scrypt or defeating asics
203 2014-02-26 06:12:19 <copumpkin> yeah
204 2014-02-26 06:16:52 <tonokip> trying to use gitian for first time. i get this error trying to build boost ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run copy-to-target  inputs/boost-mingw-gas-cross-compile-2013-03-03.patch build/ (RuntimeError)
205 2014-02-26 06:21:38 <tonokip> just tried deps-win.yml and i get this error: ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run on-target -u root -e DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get --no-install-recommends -y install mingw-w64 g++-mingw-w64 git-core zip faketime psmisc > var/install.log 2>&1 (RuntimeError)
206 2014-02-26 06:23:20 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: check var/install.log
207 2014-02-26 06:23:59 <michagogo> cloud|And for boost, do you have the .patch file in inputs/?
208 2014-02-26 06:24:14 <michagogo> cloud|2:48:52 <midnightmagic> I've been dividing by two.. but it seems that's not the real size.
209 2014-02-26 06:24:29 <tonokip> nope dont have the patch
210 2014-02-26 06:24:48 <michagogo> cloud|midnightmagic: are you measuring before you sign?
211 2014-02-26 06:24:54 <tonokip> var log has: E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
212 2014-02-26 06:24:56 <michagogo> cloud|Because the signature makes it bigger
213 2014-02-26 06:25:30 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: get the patch from the link in doc/release-process.md
214 2014-02-26 06:25:57 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: hm, that's odd -- can you pastebin the file?
215 2014-02-26 06:26:18 <tonokip> oh i should have it i grabbed all the inputs
216 2014-02-26 06:26:39 <tonokip> well i guess i dont
217 2014-02-26 06:27:13 <michagogo> cloud|ls inputs/
218 2014-02-26 06:27:17 <michagogo> cloud|3:08:58 <Persopolis> think i'll burn my VM and start from scratch tomorrow - any recomendations for a distro with least pain on the dependencies
219 2014-02-26 06:27:32 <michagogo> cloud|Persopolis: I think Ubuntu is pretty good
220 2014-02-26 06:28:09 <michagogo> cloud|You can apt-get everything, including bdb4.8 if you add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
221 2014-02-26 06:28:40 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: the apt error is odd, though -- could you pastebin it?
222 2014-02-26 06:28:48 <michagogo> cloud|(The install.log)
223 2014-02-26 06:29:44 <tonokip> http://pastebin.com/sPv5kDJv
224 2014-02-26 06:30:48 <jcrubino> is there a reccomended c hashlib for sha256, base58
225 2014-02-26 06:31:16 <michagogo> cloud|Size mismatch? O_o
226 2014-02-26 06:31:23 <michagogo> cloud|Maybe try it again?
227 2014-02-26 06:32:16 <tonokip> latest boost error, http://pastebin.com/PeL22M6p
228 2014-02-26 06:32:46 <tonokip> gitian is so magical :D
229 2014-02-26 06:33:59 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: does install.log have the same errors as the other one?
230 2014-02-26 06:34:05 <michagogo> cloud|(Mismatches s
231 2014-02-26 06:34:10 <michagogo> cloud|)
232 2014-02-26 06:34:11 <tonokip> ya its not changed
233 2014-02-26 06:34:20 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: yes it is
234 2014-02-26 06:34:36 <michagogo> cloud|Any
235 2014-02-26 06:34:39 <michagogo> cloud|Hmm
236 2014-02-26 06:34:55 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: btw, are you familiar with pastebinit?
237 2014-02-26 06:35:17 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: there?
238 2014-02-26 06:35:20 <michagogo> cloud|It pastebins from the command line
239 2014-02-26 06:35:22 <tonokip> nope
240 2014-02-26 06:35:25 <tonokip> nice
241 2014-02-26 06:35:53 <michagogo> cloud|Either `pastebinit var/install.log`
242 2014-02-26 06:36:05 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: I have a question regarding https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac ... is it normal if the root node's value != total balances
243 2014-02-26 06:36:08 <michagogo> cloud|Or if you don't give it a file, it uses stdin
244 2014-02-26 06:36:22 <wumpus> tonokip: btw, are you familiar with pastebinit? <- cool, didn't know that one yet
245 2014-02-26 06:36:38 <michagogo> cloud|So you can pipe something else into it
246 2014-02-26 06:37:01 <michagogo> cloud|Or just run it, then type/paste into the terminal and ctrl-d
247 2014-02-26 06:37:47 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: hmm. Maybe try clearing the apt-cacher cache?
248 2014-02-26 06:37:59 <wumpus> but don't accidentally your passwords/phrases into it :)
249 2014-02-26 06:39:02 <michagogo> cloud|By default it uses Debian's pastebin on Debian and Ubuntu's on Ubuntu
250 2014-02-26 06:39:08 <michagogo> cloud|But you can change that
251 2014-02-26 06:40:05 <tonokip> hm its a python3 script
252 2014-02-26 06:40:18 <Luke-Jr> I use wgetpaste
253 2014-02-26 06:42:14 <michagogo> cloud|Oh, is it?
254 2014-02-26 06:42:40 <michagogo> cloud|Didn't know that
255 2014-02-26 06:43:16 <tonokip> gitian complained about my private key permissions :/
256 2014-02-26 06:43:51 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: if you have time, have a look at https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof/blob/master/index.js .. i probably got something terribly wrong though :O
257 2014-02-26 06:44:00 <tonokip> im trying to run this on an NTFS mounted external drive attached to my rig :D
258 2014-02-26 06:45:15 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: private key permissions? Eh?
259 2014-02-26 06:46:55 <tonokip> Permissions 0777 for '/mnt/gitian-builder/var/id_dsa' are too open.
260 2014-02-26 06:47:36 <tonokip> oh well
261 2014-02-26 06:48:21 <wumpus> 777 on id_dsa ... heh
262 2014-02-26 06:48:43 <wumpus> even ssh will be angry at you and refuse to do anything, is my experience
263 2014-02-26 06:49:08 <tonokip> ya i got stuck in this VM ssh login prompt
264 2014-02-26 06:49:46 <Apocalyptic> <wumpus> even ssh will be angry at you and refuse to do anything, is my experience << true
265 2014-02-26 06:51:44 <wumpus> you need proper (only rwX for user) permissions on both the .ssh directory as well as the various files in it, for it to work, there is logging somewhere but the first time this happens you can spend a long time chasing down the reason why it won't accept your key
266 2014-02-26 06:51:50 <tonokip> i cant seem to change any permissions on the mounted drive :/
267 2014-02-26 06:53:12 <wumpus> NTFS won't respect UNIX file permissions
268 2014-02-26 06:53:27 <tonokip> yea it will :P
269 2014-02-26 06:53:48 <tonokip> well it lacks respect
270 2014-02-26 06:55:12 <wumpus> well at least it used to be like this: the permissions are determined fully at the mount point and there is no per-file configurability... maybe they implemented some mapping from NTFS perms to UNIX perms now, but it's likely more complicated then just using chmod
271 2014-02-26 07:01:56 <wumpus> in any case you could make ssh happy by mounting just for your user with no permissions for group and others
272 2014-02-26 07:03:14 <tonokip> yea thats my plan
273 2014-02-26 07:03:32 <wumpus> but this may be a wild goose chase; the gitian build relies on at least working +x/-x permissions and probably some other bits we haven't taken into account
274 2014-02-26 07:04:30 <tonokip> well i was thinking of making a loopback drive if i needed to
275 2014-02-26 07:04:35 <wumpus> that's a better idea
276 2014-02-26 07:04:47 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: maybe shrink the ntfs partition and add an ext4?
277 2014-02-26 07:05:01 <michagogo> cloud|;;google loopback drive
278 2014-02-26 07:05:02 <gribble> Loop device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_device>; What is a loopback driver? - TouchDAW - DAW controller and MIDI ...: <http://www.humatic.de/htools/touchdaw/man_loopback.htm>; Hubi's Loopback MIDI Driver: <http://www.sionsoft.com/hubi.html>
279 2014-02-26 07:05:43 <wumpus> a loopback image mount will work fine; that's how gitian normally does things when you let it manage images
280 2014-02-26 07:06:41 <michagogo> cloud|Ah, that would seem to work
281 2014-02-26 07:07:22 <michagogo> cloud|I wonder how badly gitian with lxc would fail on ntfs
282 2014-02-26 07:07:49 <tonokip> it really should work since its mostly in the vm anyway
283 2014-02-26 07:08:14 <wumpus> lxc gitian uses images with an embedded file system too AFAIK so it should work
284 2014-02-26 07:09:24 <michagogo> cloud|Ah, does it?
285 2014-02-26 07:10:25 <tonokip> it works speculatively
286 2014-02-26 07:10:42 <tonokip> having trouble trying to mount as a diff user :S
287 2014-02-26 07:15:55 <michagogo> cloud|tonokip: good luck.
288 2014-02-26 07:17:29 <tonokip> had to use mount -o umask=077,gid=1000,uid=1000
289 2014-02-26 07:20:17 <tonokip> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
290 2014-02-26 07:21:47 <tonokip> guess i should clear that apt cache
291 2014-02-26 07:48:32 <wumpus> super3: thanks for working on that document btw
292 2014-02-26 09:20:19 <actuallygoodnews> mmm
293 2014-02-26 09:27:07 <setjmp> .h
294 2014-02-26 11:18:43 <wumpus> hmm seems it's pretty easy to run against github's .mediawiki to html generation limits, tried to upload the Script  page from the bitcoin wiki https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-doc-project/blob/master/Script.mediawiki  "Sorry, this blob took too long to generate."
295 2014-02-26 11:24:08 <todamoon> anyone care to have a look at https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof ?
296 2014-02-26 12:11:48 <frib> why after changing my wallet.dat won't bitcoind server start?
297 2014-02-26 12:11:55 <frib> thanks for any help..
298 2014-02-26 12:12:16 <frib> never mind it just took about 10 minutes.. works now
299 2014-02-26 12:22:23 <wumpus> debug.log will likely tell you why
300 2014-02-26 12:36:01 <roycocup> Hello! Anybody needs a developer for bitcoin based projects? I'm a freelance developer and I'm looking for gigs :)
301 2014-02-26 12:41:55 <todamoon> gmaxwell: I tried implementing your idea here: https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof .. let me know your thoughts if you have time
302 2014-02-26 13:20:45 <jgarzik> well, shit.
303 2014-02-26 13:20:54 <jgarzik> bitcoind won't work in a 20GB VM anymore.
304 2014-02-26 13:21:17 <Persopolis> really? ouch
305 2014-02-26 13:21:50 <Persopolis> incidentally what distro do you use
306 2014-02-26 13:21:51 <Mallstromm> what did you expect? The blockchain is already +18GB
307 2014-02-26 13:23:15 <Persopolis> 14.3G I think
308 2014-02-26 13:28:40 <andytoshi> my .bitcoin is 20.5 with -txindex and testnet
309 2014-02-26 13:29:01 <andytoshi> todamoon: if you hash every node individually you can avoid having two people exposed on each query
310 2014-02-26 13:30:32 <andytoshi> pretty slick tho, good job
311 2014-02-26 13:37:42 <todamoon> andytoshi: thanks
312 2014-02-26 13:38:02 <todamoon> andytoshi: do you mean hash the username?
313 2014-02-26 13:38:40 <todamoon> I was trying to come up with an alternative
314 2014-02-26 13:39:34 <todamoon> make all user's sibling a dummy node with user 'dummy' balance: 0 or somehting
315 2014-02-26 13:39:45 <todamoon> I've commented some of those issues in the code
316 2014-02-26 13:44:27 <andytoshi> todamoon: well, equivalent to pairing a dummy node, you could just make the leaves have no siblings
317 2014-02-26 13:44:51 <andytoshi> so your data structure would have two types of nodes
318 2014-02-26 13:45:28 <Persopolis> nooby question re blind solvency - I assume it still relies on honesty of the exchange
319 2014-02-26 13:45:44 <andytoshi> Persopolis: in what sense?
320 2014-02-26 13:46:04 <Persopolis> as in - they could in theory be showing bogus info?
321 2014-02-26 13:46:34 <andytoshi> Persopolis: the exchange can publish these values then run away with the money 1 second later. but any bogus info would mean some user has bad data
322 2014-02-26 13:47:16 <Persopolis> andytoshi - when you say publish, I thought this was going to be visible per user?
323 2014-02-26 13:47:32 <Persopolis> rather than published publicly to all
324 2014-02-26 13:47:39 <andytoshi> well, the root will be published, the individual paths are only published per user
325 2014-02-26 13:48:18 <todamoon> andytoshi: i see
326 2014-02-26 13:49:13 <todamoon> Persopolis: if i understand correctly they could show bogus info, but at least one user could find out he is not "included" in the tree
327 2014-02-26 13:49:17 <andytoshi> so, the exchange can scam this by creating/cooperating with bad users, but that requires deliberate fraud on their part..also since all amounts are positive, adding accounts would simply make their claimed liabilities higher!
328 2014-02-26 13:50:22 <todamoon> the idea is that this is used in addition to the exchange proving they own the funds on the blockchain
329 2014-02-26 13:50:53 <Persopolis> i see - very nice
330 2014-02-26 13:51:21 <andytoshi> right -- the hashtree proves liabilities, the blockchain proves assets
331 2014-02-26 13:51:29 <todamoon> i think it would be a good idea to have a chrome extension that could automatically verify for users if their tree verifies
332 2014-02-26 13:51:34 <Persopolis> albeit - would the exchanges want to advertise the value?
333 2014-02-26 13:51:55 <todamoon> there could be an open standard for publishing the root and trees
334 2014-02-26 13:52:09 <todamoon> andytoshi: yes, well put
335 2014-02-26 13:52:42 <todamoon> Persopolis: that's an issue. but it could give them an advantage by appearing more trustworthy to users
336 2014-02-26 13:52:55 <Persopolis> yes :)
337 2014-02-26 13:53:15 <todamoon> I would personally be much more inclined to use an exchange that implemented this scheme
338 2014-02-26 13:54:00 <Persopolis> how often is it proposed this tree is refreshed
339 2014-02-26 13:54:08 <todamoon> maybe i should rename the repo to "blind-liability-proof" ?
340 2014-02-26 13:54:31 <todamoon> Persopolis: I guess not less then 1 day
341 2014-02-26 13:54:57 <todamoon> if it's too often, it is difficult to verify with other people that the root is no falsified
342 2014-02-26 13:55:00 <todamoon> not*
343 2014-02-26 13:55:05 <todamoon> damn, I'm tired
344 2014-02-26 13:55:12 <Persopolis> indeed - hence my question
345 2014-02-26 13:55:44 <Persopolis> but also curious about integrity of in flight calculation
346 2014-02-26 13:55:52 <Persopolis> would it need to be done on a snapshot of the DB
347 2014-02-26 13:56:13 <todamoon> I think so yes
348 2014-02-26 14:05:43 <Persopolis> todamoon - if you implemented single leaf as andysuggested, what's the # of hashes perfromed for n users in a worse case scenario
349 2014-02-26 14:06:02 <todamoon> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yzil4/i_implemented_gmaxwells/
350 2014-02-26 14:06:55 <todamoon> Persopolis: I think it's N + N/2 hashes total
351 2014-02-26 14:07:36 <todamoon> then for each user you need to extract a tree which is relatively easy
352 2014-02-26 14:08:27 <todamoon> I'm not really sure I got the implementation right.. I'm pretty noob at crypto stuff
353 2014-02-26 14:09:02 <todamoon> and I've been coding this on caffeine, I'm half dead right now haha
354 2014-02-26 14:13:30 <Persopolis> todamoon - what happened to the sample output format
355 2014-02-26 14:14:09 <Persopolis> stripped new lines?
356 2014-02-26 14:17:27 <todamoon> Persopolis: what do you mean?
357 2014-02-26 14:18:12 <todamoon> the sample output in the README.md was before i built the CLI.. it might be a bit outdated
358 2014-02-26 14:19:07 <Persopolis> I'm sure when I looked at it on git before i looked good - when i look now it seems to be missing newlines
359 2014-02-26 14:19:15 <sipa> paste?
360 2014-02-26 14:21:13 <Persopolis> http://pastebin.com/GHbaNrZV
361 2014-02-26 14:21:58 <todamoon> Persopolis: I'm not getting this here
362 2014-02-26 14:22:32 <todamoon> Persopolis: https://raw.github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof/master/README.md
363 2014-02-26 14:22:40 <Persopolis> wierd - it was looking good for me till a few minutes ago - must be git