1 2014-03-10 00:06:54 <jcrubino> where are the magic network values found in the reference codebase?
2 2014-03-10 00:09:53 <sipa> chainparams.cpp
3 2014-03-10 00:16:41 <jcrubino> thanks sipa
4 2014-03-10 00:34:03 <ilovebitcoinfr> hi! i have a simple question about bitcoin source: where do i fing the code setting the halving time (number of blocks)? thanks
5 2014-03-10 00:34:08 <ilovebitcoinfr> find
6 2014-03-10 00:34:30 <flammit> chainparams.cpp
7 2014-03-10 00:34:34 <ilovebitcoinfr> thanks
8 2014-03-10 00:35:14 <flammit> popular answer recently
9 2014-03-10 00:35:53 <ilovebitcoinfr> nSubsidyHalvingInterval = 210000; ?
10 2014-03-10 00:36:36 <ilovebitcoinfr> i guess nSubsidyHalvingInterval = 150; is for testing?
11 2014-03-10 00:43:25 <TheButterZone> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508687.0 Looking for a developer for a transaction visualiser
12 2014-03-10 00:51:55 <TheSeven> mhanne: how are you generating that database?
13 2014-03-10 01:23:09 <ilovebitcoinfr> i know it's against etiquette to dare speak about altcoins here but litecoin doesn't have a chainparams.ccp does anybody know where their halving time is encoded? thanks
14 2014-03-10 01:24:15 <ilovebitcoinfr> (and nobody is answering in the litecoin-dev forum )
15 2014-03-10 01:24:30 <ilovebitcoinfr> channel not forum, sorry
16 2014-03-10 01:50:01 <comboy> TheSeven: https://github.com/lian/bitcoin-ruby
17 2014-03-10 01:51:21 <porquilho> gmaxwell
18 2014-03-10 01:51:28 <porquilho> i was banned from mtgox-chat
19 2014-03-10 01:51:41 <anton000> lol
20 2014-03-10 01:52:52 <owowo> h320.
21 2014-03-10 01:53:18 <sipa> ?
22 2014-03-10 01:53:33 <owowo> ;;leet hero
23 2014-03-10 01:53:34 <gribble> h3r0
24 2014-03-10 01:54:18 <anton000> omg trolls
25 2014-03-10 01:58:08 <maaku> ilovebitcoinfr: it should be in main.cpp, in a function called 'GetBlockSubsidy' or somesuch
26 2014-03-10 03:56:07 <skinnkavaj> Wanna learn about p2pool
27 2014-03-10 03:57:16 <skinnkavaj> How is it decentralized when there is someone that host the p2pool?
28 2014-03-10 03:57:45 <gmaxwell> there is no one that hosts the p2pool
29 2014-03-10 03:57:57 <gmaxwell> its software you run for yourself.
30 2014-03-10 03:58:25 <gmaxwell> (there are people who allow third parties to use theirs, but thats an inefficient way to use it that defeats the point)
31 2014-03-10 03:58:37 <skinnkavaj> But there are nodes?
32 2014-03-10 03:58:39 <skinnkavaj> https://litecoin.info/Mining_pool_comparison
33 2014-03-10 03:58:52 <skinnkavaj> So if using a p2pool node like in that list
34 2014-03-10 03:58:56 <gmaxwell> I'm afraid you've confused this with the litecoin channel.
35 2014-03-10 03:59:13 <skinnkavaj> This has nothing to do with litecoin
36 2014-03-10 03:59:18 <gmaxwell> if you're using one of those you might well get ripped off, a lot of them just pocket all the work.
37 2014-03-10 03:59:19 <skinnkavaj> I only have seen that kind of pools there
38 2014-03-10 03:59:41 <skinnkavaj> There is a guy advocating to use p2pool for litecoin and he runs a node
39 2014-03-10 03:59:45 <skinnkavaj> Does that ruin the whole point?
40 2014-03-10 03:59:48 <skinnkavaj> When he is incharge?
41 2014-03-10 03:59:57 <gmaxwell> he's probably just another scammer.
42 2014-03-10 04:00:10 <skinnkavaj> I don't think this particular guy is, he is very active in the community in general
43 2014-03-10 04:00:15 <gmaxwell> This is entirely offtopic for the channel.
44 2014-03-10 04:00:19 <skinnkavaj> Writes articles about why people should use p2pool
45 2014-03-10 04:00:30 <skinnkavaj> Have he misunderstood the whole concept?
46 2014-03-10 04:00:44 <skinnkavaj> I assume p2poools for litecoin and bitcoin work in the same way.
47 2014-03-10 04:01:21 <gmaxwell> Nope, I don't know of anyone that uses a remote p2pool, it's a bad ideaâ you get a high stale rate, and a lot of them have just been fly by night frauds.
48 2014-03-10 04:01:45 <skinnkavaj> How should you use p2pool then?
49 2014-03-10 04:02:00 <devrandom> in BIP-32, there's no relationship between m/0 and m/0', correct?
50 2014-03-10 04:02:05 <devrandom> also, I don't see any name given to the prime children (m/0' m/1') to distinguish them from the non-prime ones (m/0, m/1)... is there a standard term for them?
51 2014-03-10 04:02:36 <gmaxwell> ... by using p2pool, derp. in structions here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool or http://p2pool.in/
52 2014-03-10 04:03:20 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: With p2pool do you have to wait until you solve a block yourself?
53 2014-03-10 04:04:39 <gmaxwell> devrandom: IIRC thats just noting if you're using the public or private derrivation.
54 2014-03-10 04:04:50 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: no that would be solo mining.
55 2014-03-10 04:05:06 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: please take the bitcoin / p2pool 101 questions to #bitcoin or #p2pool
56 2014-03-10 04:05:11 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: Why isn't bitcoin built in with 1 click mining directly via p2pool?
57 2014-03-10 04:05:26 <gmaxwell> (and please read the webpages I linked you to, since they do explain the basis stuff)
58 2014-03-10 04:05:51 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: Wouldn't bitcoin be more centralized if bitcoin-qt offer this function directly in the client
59 2014-03-10 04:05:55 <skinnkavaj> decentralized*
60 2014-03-10 04:07:30 <beachandbytes> what library do most of you use, Im fairly language agnostic
61 2014-03-10 04:07:32 <devrandom> gmaxwell: hmmm... I thought that 1' was equivalent to 0x80000001
62 2014-03-10 04:07:48 <richardkiss> devrandom: you're correct, m/0 and m/0' are different
63 2014-03-10 04:07:59 <devrandom> oh, right, we're staying the same thing
64 2014-03-10 04:08:17 <richardkiss> the algorithm is different for children >= 0x80000000
65 2014-03-10 04:08:22 <devrandom> right
66 2014-03-10 04:09:09 <devrandom> okay, so 0' is "the zeroth private-derived child"
67 2014-03-10 04:09:18 <devrandom> and 0 is "the zeroth public-derived child"
68 2014-03-10 04:09:40 <devrandom> and there's no mathematical relationship between them
69 2014-03-10 04:10:00 <gmaxwell> You're confusing hardened with public and private derrivation.
70 2014-03-10 04:10:56 <gmaxwell> The low bit keys (non-hardened) can be derrived either from the private key data (giving you the private key), or exclusively from the public data.
71 2014-03-10 04:11:25 <wyager> devrandom: That's how I'd put it. I think you're saying the same thing again
72 2014-03-10 04:11:34 <devrandom> OK
73 2014-03-10 04:11:45 <devrandom> gmaxwell: it seems that hardened == private derivation
74 2014-03-10 04:11:48 <wyager> But rather, I'd say "publically-derivable" and "privately-derivable"
75 2014-03-10 04:12:08 <devrandom> gmaxwell: BIP32 says
76 2014-03-10 04:12:09 <devrandom> Check whether the highest bit (0x80000000) of i is set:
77 2014-03-10 04:12:09 <devrandom> If 1, private derivation is used: let I = HMAC-SHA512(Key = cpar, Data = 0x00 || kpar || i) [Note:] If 0, public derivation is used: let I = HMAC-SHA512(Key = cpar, Data = Ï(kpar*G) || i)
78 2014-03-10 04:12:35 <devrandom> so the high bit is referred to as triggering "private derivation"
79 2014-03-10 04:12:42 <gmaxwell> No. jesus
80 2014-03-10 04:12:55 <gmaxwell> Here, sipa rewrote it to avoid this common confusion: https://github.com/sipa/bips/blob/bip32update/bip-0032.mediawiki
81 2014-03-10 04:12:55 <wyager> You can choose to derive the "publicly-derivable" ones from the master public key, but this is not possible for "privately-derivable" ones
82 2014-03-10 04:13:14 <devrandom> reading
83 2014-03-10 04:13:47 <wyager> gmaxwell: What is devrandom saying that is totally wrong? I think he gets it, but is just using different terminology
84 2014-03-10 04:14:18 <devrandom> I was looking at https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki
85 2014-03-10 04:14:31 <gmaxwell> wyager: 21:01 < devrandom> in BIP-32, there's no relationship between m/0 and m/0', correct?
86 2014-03-10 04:14:38 <gmaxwell> wyager: indicates that he's confused.
87 2014-03-10 04:14:39 <devrandom> that one uses "private derivation" where sipa's is using "hardened"
88 2014-03-10 04:15:08 <devrandom> I'm happy to use "hardened", but hope that sipa's version will actually replace the official BIP
89 2014-03-10 04:15:09 <gmaxwell> devrandom: Yes, the new document is a rewrite of the language to eliminate this common source of confusion with respect to the overloading of public/private.
90 2014-03-10 04:15:46 <wyager> That was a good choice. People get mixed up with public/private in the context of asymmetric crypto
91 2014-03-10 04:16:02 <gmaxwell> I don't care what language you use, you need to actually understand what this is doing and why. If you release software while you're not able to see that mathmatical relationship between m/0' and m/0 you will get people robbed.
92 2014-03-10 04:16:29 <gmaxwell> Sipa is the primary author of BIP-32, the update is just based on in-field expirence.
93 2014-03-10 04:16:48 <gmaxwell> It will replace it when he's finally happy with the feedback on it.
94 2014-03-10 04:16:50 <anton000> its like releasing a calculator, but u dont know why 1 +1 =2 lol
95 2014-03-10 04:17:06 <gmaxwell> Please feel free to provide additional feedback.
96 2014-03-10 04:17:32 <devrandom> gmaxwell: hang on, are you saying there's a mathematical relationship between m/0 and m/0' ?
97 2014-03-10 04:17:44 <gmaxwell> anton000: well the fact that the original document was confusing on this point was apparent. Sometimes that happens when everyone who was looking at something already understood what it was doing.
98 2014-03-10 04:18:02 <devrandom> I don't see how there can be a relationship, given that the hmac'ed data is different
99 2014-03-10 04:18:42 <wyager> devrandom: The relationship is that the new private key is always a function of the old private key. It's just not a simple relationship
100 2014-03-10 04:19:37 <devrandom> well, yes, each child is derived from its parent
101 2014-03-10 04:19:42 <gmaxwell> devrandom: I really suggest you refer to the new document. The public derrivation is genrating the public keys for the private keys generated by the private function. (except for hardened keys (where the high-bit is set) where the public derrivation doesn't exist at all)
102 2014-03-10 04:19:57 <devrandom> yes, I understand that
103 2014-03-10 04:20:35 <devrandom> just saying that the pubkey for m/0 cannot be transformed by a third party into the pubkey for m/0' without knowing m
104 2014-03-10 04:20:38 <devrandom> and vice versa
105 2014-03-10 04:20:48 <sipa> devrandom: correct
106 2014-03-10 04:20:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: heh, that wasn't merged yet?
107 2014-03-10 04:21:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: pulls waiting on you!
108 2014-03-10 04:21:36 <sipa> oh, right, the reason for separating internal and external subvhains was never explained
109 2014-03-10 04:21:42 <gmaxwell> (wumpus asked if you were going to updated it again)
110 2014-03-10 04:21:51 <sipa> though that can be done separately i guess
111 2014-03-10 04:24:03 <gmaxwell> devrandom: (in the new syntax) m/1 and m/1h are indeed 'unrelated', I thought you were saying derrivation through CKD() and CKD'() was unrelated.
112 2014-03-10 04:24:50 <sipa> which are called CKDpriv and CKDpub now
113 2014-03-10 04:29:23 <devrandom> gmaxwell: okay, we're on the same page
114 2014-03-10 04:29:45 <gmaxwell> hurrah!
115 2014-03-10 04:29:47 <gmaxwell> \O/
116 2014-03-10 04:29:55 <gmaxwell> the new document really is a lot less confusion prone.
117 2014-03-10 04:30:18 <gmaxwell> Sorry about that. Should have beta tested the prior version on someone who didn't understand it already from years of discussion. :)
118 2014-03-10 04:31:42 <devrandom> happy to be such a beta tester in the future
119 2014-03-10 04:32:39 <wyager> We need to keep a control group away from the mailing list and any non-BIP literature, so we can use them as comprehension guinea pigs :p
120 2014-03-10 04:32:50 <gmaxwell> well thats not hard to find then. :P
121 2014-03-10 04:33:07 <gmaxwell> the problem is getting the CG to feed from the trough when its time.
122 2014-03-10 05:14:05 <beachandbytes> What's the most secure library for coding with bitcoin? I don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to, I know, c, c++ , C#, and java, a little bit of python
123 2014-03-10 05:15:33 <wyager> There are a few, depending on what you want to do. You can use libbitcoin, Electrum's python libraries, conformal's libraries, and some others
124 2014-03-10 05:22:57 <QuantumQrack> Is there a problem with unconfirmed transactions?
125 2014-03-10 05:38:25 <Luke-Jr> beachandbytes: what parts of bitcoin?
126 2014-03-10 05:38:52 <beachandbytes> mainly just transactions
127 2014-03-10 05:39:23 <beachandbytes> but im fairly new to the space so would like to keep my options open and not have to switch midstream
128 2014-03-10 05:54:37 <beachandbytes> I think Ill try electrum's, it seems to be actively developed. Is libbitcoin still active?
129 2014-03-10 06:13:24 <lnovy> isn't that unconfirmed transaction count unusual?
130 2014-03-10 07:55:05 <zacm> lnovy, nothing a decision on which fork is valid won't fix
131 2014-03-10 08:08:10 <gribble> b!+c0!n-d3v
132 2014-03-10 08:08:10 <michagogo> cloud|;;leet bitcoin-dev
133 2014-03-10 08:08:15 <michagogo> cloud|Heh
134 2014-03-10 08:08:22 <gribble> (leet <text>) -- Returns the l33tspeak version of <text>
135 2014-03-10 08:08:22 <michagogo> cloud|;;help leet
136 2014-03-10 08:09:01 <michagogo> cloud|Also, it's nice to see a new person getting into gbuilding
137 2014-03-10 08:10:07 <michagogo> cloud|Oh, wait a minute
138 2014-03-10 08:10:13 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION facepalms
139 2014-03-10 08:10:25 <Belxjander> gbuilding?
140 2014-03-10 08:10:44 <michagogo> cloud|I just realized that where he gets the source doesn't affect what gets used
141 2014-03-10 08:10:53 <michagogo> cloud|Because gitian fetches the repo itself
142 2014-03-10 08:11:02 <wumpus> it only affects what descriptors are used
143 2014-03-10 08:11:06 <michagogo> cloud|Belxjander: see doc/release-process.md
144 2014-03-10 08:11:08 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: right
145 2014-03-10 08:11:28 <michagogo> cloud|Gah.
146 2014-03-10 08:11:33 <wumpus> you just need to provide the right tag to gbuild, that's all
147 2014-03-10 08:11:34 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION goes to fix his comment
148 2014-03-10 09:08:20 <wumpus> can anyone ACK https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3696 , seems useful to have some measure of rescan progress in debug.log
149 2014-03-10 09:52:28 <CodeShar_> going over the old getwork stuff - any reason the last 64 bits of the data encode the length in bits rather than bytes or nibbles? I mean, it's not like you have bit-level granularity in the hex output anyhow
150 2014-03-10 09:53:18 <CodeShark> going over the old getwork stuff - any reason the last 64 bits of the data encode the length in bits rather than bytes or nibbles? I mean, it's not like you have bit-level granularity in the hex output anyhow
151 2014-03-10 09:55:49 <CodeShark> seems to just add one more unnecessary validation condition for the caller
152 2014-03-10 09:56:41 <CodeShark> or the need to add an extra unnecessary rule defining behavior for nonmultiples of 4