1 2014-03-30 10:17:42 <wumpus> he probably just picked a number, so that in satoshis it is a safe margin below what fits in 63 bits to avoid overflow problems, it's even below 53 bits so that it would fit in the mantissa of a double
2 2014-03-30 12:28:23 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, any reason why you not recommend to use blockchain.info to check multisig addresses balances?
3 2014-03-30 13:52:10 <Alina-malina> sipa, hey sipa is it possible to separately comiple the "watchonly" tool to make request to it and get the bitcoin address current balance?
4 2014-03-30 13:52:16 <Alina-malina> sipa, i mean multisig address
5 2014-03-30 13:57:59 <andytoshi> Alina-malina: bc.i is an endless source of disinfo, so it's a terrible idea period to do anything financial based on what they say. the arguments for this belong in #bitcoin and have been beaten to death.
6 2014-03-30 13:58:50 <Alina-malina> andytoshi,please help me with advice i am in lost
7 2014-03-30 13:59:38 <andytoshi> if you went into a physical cheque-cashing business and asked 'which is the account number and which is the routing number?', and they replied "it doesn't matter, just use either", would you give them your money?
8 2014-03-30 14:00:52 <Alina-malina> andytoshi, i need to make a check of multisig address if the funds are available there or not, i dont know how to do this, please give me idea
9 2014-03-30 14:03:35 <sipa> Alina-malina: yes, that's the purpose if watchonly wallets... only watching
10 2014-03-30 14:03:51 <Alina-malina> sipa, is it possible to make that watchonly part separately working?
11 2014-03-30 14:04:45 <Alina-malina> also please tell me is txid safe and it can be altered?
12 2014-03-30 14:05:08 <Alina-malina> how to make sure that the txid that i am checking is 100 valid and not some mel. attack
13 2014-03-30 14:06:39 <sipa> if it confirms, you're fine
14 2014-03-30 14:07:01 <Alina-malina> how to make a check request if it is confrmed or not?
15 2014-03-30 14:08:54 <sipa> Alina-malina: #bitcoin please
16 2014-03-30 14:09:05 <Alina-malina> hmmm okie
17 2014-03-30 14:09:24 <Alina-malina> sipa, so if confirmations are number of 6 then the txid is valid right?
18 2014-03-30 14:10:02 <sipa> Alina-malina: any txid is valid, or bitcoind wouldn't accept it
19 2014-03-30 14:10:16 <sipa> Alina-malina: the question is whether it will confirm
20 2014-03-30 14:10:34 <sipa> Alina-malina: 6 confirmations is generally considered enough for most purposes
21 2014-03-30 14:10:43 <Alina-malina> even for multisig?
22 2014-03-30 14:11:07 <sipa> that has absolutely nothing to do with it
23 2014-03-30 14:11:18 <Alina-malina> hmmm
24 2014-03-30 14:11:47 <sipa> i really suggest you try to understand hwo bitcoin works before setting up an automated services that uses multisig
25 2014-03-30 14:11:57 <Alina-malina> hmm
26 2014-03-30 14:12:11 <Alina-malina> right
27 2014-03-30 15:13:46 <mr_burdell> does anyone know of a simple server I could install that would support BIP0070?
28 2014-03-30 15:14:04 <mr_burdell> I've got to the point where my testing is going to start getting expensive
29 2014-03-30 15:14:48 <michagogo> cloud|Does anyone know if BlueMatt intentionally omitted dropped raring from the PPA?
30 2014-03-30 15:16:32 <teward> michagogo|cloud: raring EOL'd a while ago
31 2014-03-30 15:16:42 <teward> michagogo|cloud: the PPA builders no longer accept raring uploads
32 2014-03-30 15:16:44 <teward> and haven't for a while
33 2014-03-30 15:16:50 <teward> ACTION pulls the last date on a raring upload
34 2014-03-30 15:16:51 <michagogo> cloud|teward: Did quantal not?
35 2014-03-30 15:17:24 <teward> michagogo|cloud: no it didn't, it's the first release in the new eol cycle that eol'd before everything before it
36 2014-03-30 15:17:32 <michagogo> cloud|Ah.
37 2014-03-30 15:17:39 <teward> michagogo|cloud: raring EOL'd in january sometime so at the same time the PPA builders ceased accepting raring uploads
38 2014-03-30 15:17:53 <teward> so he can upload for raring but it won't accept the upload.
39 2014-03-30 15:17:56 <michagogo> cloud|So PPAs aren't allowed to include packages for EOL'd releases? o_O
40 2014-03-30 15:18:06 <teward> michagogo|cloud: after the EOL, the builders no longer accept uploads for them
41 2014-03-30 15:18:19 <michagogo> cloud|I would have thought that was one of the reasons to use PPAs O_o
42 2014-03-30 15:18:19 <teward> the packages that were there prior to EOL remain there, but you can't push new uploads
43 2014-03-30 15:18:20 <teward> it's always been tat way
44 2014-03-30 15:18:35 <michagogo> cloud|I guess you learn something new every day.
45 2014-03-30 15:18:35 <teward> michagogo|cloud: wherever you got that from should be burned with fire
46 2014-03-30 15:18:52 <teward> michagogo|cloud: PPAs are better used for "Newer software in older releases, if and only if the release is still not end of life"
47 2014-03-30 15:18:52 <wumpus> they probably don't want to keep build servers around for EOLed releases
48 2014-03-30 15:18:53 <michagogo> cloud|teward: note that I'm not very familiar with the world of Ubuntu
49 2014-03-30 15:19:19 <teward> michagogo|cloud: should poke me when you have questions, I'm pretty in tune with the ubuntu world
50 2014-03-30 15:19:34 <teward> wumpus: actually, its' more a case of "they don't want to have to keep the EOL release in the mirrors"
51 2014-03-30 15:19:42 <teward> and the PPA builders only pull from the mirrors, not oldreleases
52 2014-03-30 15:19:51 <michagogo> cloud|teward: PPAs have mirrors?
53 2014-03-30 15:19:57 <teward> michagogo|cloud: no, the repositories have mirrors
54 2014-03-30 15:20:04 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION is confused
55 2014-03-30 15:20:13 <teward> michagogo|cloud: then don't speak.
56 2014-03-30 15:20:14 <teward> ACTION grumbles
57 2014-03-30 15:20:16 <michagogo> cloud|Maybe I don't understand the process that PPA builders use?
58 2014-03-30 15:20:19 <teward> sorry, i'm pissed at my firewall
59 2014-03-30 15:20:49 <teward> michagogo|cloud: it uses a program called 'sbuild'. the chroots for sbuild refer to the Ubuntu Repositories, specifically a copy of the mirrors that exists locally on each of the builders, I think
60 2014-03-30 15:21:04 <michagogo> cloud|Oh, do the build servers fetch packages and stuff from the repos for each build?
61 2014-03-30 15:21:18 <teward> michagogo|cloud: but those "repositories" are mirrors of the main Ubuntu repositories, not oldreleases
62 2014-03-30 15:21:28 <teward> and when something EOLs one of two things happens:
63 2014-03-30 15:21:42 <teward> (1) the PPA upload accepting system either has the EOL release disabled for accepted uploads
64 2014-03-30 15:21:54 <teward> or (2) the repositories no longer have the EOL release data stored
65 2014-03-30 15:21:57 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and yes, that's exactly it
66 2014-03-30 15:22:09 <teward> it pulls all the build deps every time
67 2014-03-30 15:22:18 <teward> each chroot has the core files necessary for Ubuntu, but not every package
68 2014-03-30 15:22:22 <Akima> LTS releases FTW!
69 2014-03-30 15:22:35 <teward> the idea is the chroot is rebuilt every single time and then destroyed when the package is done building
70 2014-03-30 15:22:48 <michagogo> cloud|So kinda like gitian?
71 2014-03-30 15:22:53 <teward> ACTION has never used gitian
72 2014-03-30 15:22:58 <teward> so i can't give you a comparison
73 2014-03-30 15:23:01 <gribble> http://gitian.org/
74 2014-03-30 15:23:01 <michagogo> cloud|;;lucky gitian
75 2014-03-30 15:23:12 <michagogo> cloud|It's what's used for deterministic builds of Bitcoin Core
76 2014-03-30 15:23:17 <teward> yeah kinda
77 2014-03-30 15:23:29 <teward> you can compare it to the travis-ci stuff that can be used for builds of things on github too
78 2014-03-30 15:23:31 <michagogo> cloud|Basically, you create a base VM
79 2014-03-30 15:23:35 <michagogo> cloud|Or, it creates one for you
80 2014-03-30 15:23:38 <teward> right
81 2014-03-30 15:23:41 <teward> for each build
82 2014-03-30 15:23:43 <michagogo> cloud|Using python-vm-builder
83 2014-03-30 15:24:02 <teward> michagogo|cloud: the only difference is that in sbuild it uses schroot, so it's not a VM, it's a chrooted environment
84 2014-03-30 15:24:23 <michagogo> cloud|Then for each build, it creates a clean copy of that VM (by copying or snapshotting it, depending on the vm in use)
85 2014-03-30 15:24:36 <teward> but the first of those two things that happens happens with the EOL release, the upload processing system for PPAs has the EOL release disabled
86 2014-03-30 15:24:49 <teward> so if you try and upload, it throws an "Invalid Release" or "Not valid release" error
87 2014-03-30 15:25:14 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION has heard from a couple people who tried saucy but then went back to raring because they had problems
88 2014-03-30 15:25:26 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and now that raring is EOL, those people are SOL
89 2014-03-30 15:25:41 <teward> michagogo|cloud: if they really want it to work, tell them to use the LTS only
90 2014-03-30 15:25:45 <teward> which is 12.04 right now
91 2014-03-30 15:25:59 <teward> long term support, but the trade-off for stability is that you lose new software features
92 2014-03-30 15:26:03 <michagogo> cloud|Wait, Raring's not even a year old and already EOL? o_O
93 2014-03-30 15:26:21 <teward> michagogo|cloud: how about i get you the changelog data for the release cycles
94 2014-03-30 15:26:44 <michagogo> cloud|What is that data?
95 2014-03-30 15:26:53 <Akima> michagogo|cloud: from here on out non-LTS releases only get 9 months of support
96 2014-03-30 15:27:05 <teward> michagogo|cloud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases go read the Management of releases part
97 2014-03-30 15:27:09 <teward> and yes, what Akima said
98 2014-03-30 15:27:14 <teward> that started with raring 13.04
99 2014-03-30 15:27:29 <teward> quantal is the last non-LTS release that will have the old-style support amount
100 2014-03-30 15:27:37 <teward> Long term support (LTS) releases are for 5 years.
101 2014-03-30 15:27:37 <teward> Older releases may have different support length.
102 2014-03-30 15:27:37 <teward> Regular releases are supported for 9 months.
103 2014-03-30 15:27:37 <teward> Support length
104 2014-03-30 15:27:43 <teward> (from the wiki page i gave you)
105 2014-03-30 15:27:54 <michagogo> cloud|Yeah, just saw that
106 2014-03-30 15:28:01 <teward> note that "Regular Releases" is any non-LTS release after 13.04 (including 13.04)
107 2014-03-30 15:28:12 <teward> Older is anything pre-13.04, excluding the LTS
108 2014-03-30 15:28:33 <teward> anything older than 12.04, save for 10.04 LTS, is also EOL now, so...
109 2014-03-30 15:28:46 <Akima> Not long until 14.04 LTS!
110 2014-03-30 15:28:50 <teward> Lucid, Precise, Quantal (until sometime in April 2014), Saucy, and Trusty are all supported
111 2014-03-30 15:29:06 <michagogo> cloud|Interesting.
112 2014-03-30 15:29:08 <teward> i'm still trying to get the QUantal EOL date from the release team, they're just slow to respond on IRC (i'm seeking a specific date, for the nginx stuff)
113 2014-03-30 15:29:20 <teward> DAMN YOU STUPID FIREWALL, Y U NO WORK.
114 2014-03-30 15:29:23 <teward> ACTION grumbles
115 2014-03-30 15:29:32 <Akima> I probably wont upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 until 14.04 has been out for about 6 months. I find Ubuntu releases to be pretty flakey on initial release.
116 2014-03-30 15:29:58 <michagogo> cloud|So EOL isn't just "we're stopping active support", it's "you shouldn't be using this and we're completely shutting down all the infrastructure for that release"
117 2014-03-30 15:30:07 <Akima> michagogo|cloud: yes
118 2014-03-30 15:30:10 <Akima> absolutely
119 2014-03-30 15:30:32 <Akima> security problems wont be addressed, in non-supported Ubuntu releases so they're very unsafe to use.
120 2014-03-30 15:30:43 <Akima> unless you're using them on offline-only machines
121 2014-03-30 15:30:45 <teward> michagogo|cloud: it's both, the idea is "We aren't supporting this anymore, and because we don't support it, you get no security updates so f*** you, upload or be stuck with vulnerable software that is unsafe)
122 2014-03-30 15:30:53 <teward> s/upload/upgrade/
123 2014-03-30 15:30:56 <michagogo> cloud|teward: do you mean upgr-
124 2014-03-30 15:30:56 <teward> stupid autocorrect...
125 2014-03-30 15:31:02 <michagogo> cloud|:P
126 2014-03-30 15:31:09 <Akima> ninja correction
127 2014-03-30 15:31:27 <teward> ACTION wins
128 2014-03-30 15:31:30 <teward> NEXT!
129 2014-03-30 15:31:36 <Akima> :P
130 2014-03-30 15:31:38 <michagogo> cloud|Hm, I think I might still have a raring VM somewhere
131 2014-03-30 15:31:40 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION checks
132 2014-03-30 15:31:44 <teward> michagogo|cloud: i had a raring VM
133 2014-03-30 15:31:49 <teward> i just nuked it to make space for a saucy VM
134 2014-03-30 15:31:56 <michagogo> cloud|I should probably clean up my virtualbox VMs...
135 2014-03-30 15:32:03 <michagogo> cloud|teward: why not just upgrade it?
136 2014-03-30 15:32:11 <blackwhite> hola peeps
137 2014-03-30 15:32:13 <michagogo> cloud|Oh, you're LordOfTime
138 2014-03-30 15:32:24 <buZz> debian ftw
139 2014-03-30 15:32:36 <teward> michagogo|cloud: because i destroy my VMs on occasion
140 2014-03-30 15:32:44 <michagogo> cloud|Why?
141 2014-03-30 15:32:44 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and i prefer clean install environments for my bug testing
142 2014-03-30 15:32:50 <teward> [14/03/30 11:32:36] <teward> michagogo|cloud: and i prefer clean install environments for my bug testing
143 2014-03-30 15:33:04 <buZz> just install clean -current- source?
144 2014-03-30 15:33:05 <michagogo> cloud|How is an upgrade different than a clean install?
145 2014-03-30 15:33:08 <teward> michagogo|cloud: my primary role is bug triage and testing.
146 2014-03-30 15:33:12 <buZz> if you want a clean install, dont install ubuntu :P
147 2014-03-30 15:33:31 <Akima> buZz: what makes you choose debian over Ubuntu?
148 2014-03-30 15:33:33 <teward> someone looks like they want slapped
149 2014-03-30 15:33:48 <buZz> Akima: less obnoxious behaviour in package selection
150 2014-03-30 15:34:16 <Akima> What is obnoixious about Canonical's package select behaviour?
151 2014-03-30 15:34:18 <buZz> Akima: and less hoops to jump through to remove the bloatware
152 2014-03-30 15:34:20 <teward> buZz: that applies to all releases, Debian included.
153 2014-03-30 15:34:29 <teward> and define "bloatware"
154 2014-03-30 15:34:37 <teward> because Debian's desktop installer installs some bloatware too
155 2014-03-30 15:34:47 <teward> ACTION uses a custom package manifest for his images anyways
156 2014-03-30 15:34:49 <buZz> anything touched by canonical
157 2014-03-30 15:34:50 <michagogo> cloud|Bah, another vbox update?
158 2014-03-30 15:34:54 <Akima> :P
159 2014-03-30 15:35:06 <michagogo> cloud|Seems like I need to upgrade that thing every time I use it
160 2014-03-30 15:35:14 <teward> buZz: probably best to take this discussion elsewhere