1 2014-04-02 00:00:00 <gmaxwell> (and certantly they were editable in the wiki!)
2 2014-04-02 00:00:14 <roybadami> Well, so they can be edited, in a way that we can still trust the history
3 2014-04-02 00:00:17 <sipa> and they occasionally were just edited on the wiki, without the author knowing about it
4 2014-04-02 00:00:28 <sipa> with git, it is at least moderated
5 2014-04-02 00:00:30 <gmaxwell> roybadami: keep in mind that the comment above was specific to _accepted_ bips.
6 2014-04-02 00:00:42 <roybadami> Right.... and in git they can be edited but it requires a pull request
7 2014-04-02 00:00:45 <sipa> (which is a fuzzy definition by itself)
8 2014-04-02 00:00:48 <gmaxwell> not just edited, but actually made incorrect and left incorrect for months. :(
9 2014-04-02 00:01:37 <roybadami> Well, yeah... that's the nature of wikis.... probably not the best place for stuff that really matters, i agree
10 2014-04-02 00:02:00 <roybadami> (Although interesting.... didn't know that had acutally happened - but can't say it surprised me)
11 2014-04-02 00:02:07 <gmaxwell> well there are extensions to mediawiki that make it more sutable. (e.g. give it a review process) but the github stuff works fine too.
12 2014-04-02 00:02:24 <roybadami> I like it being in git
13 2014-04-02 00:02:44 <roybadami> Using the same process as for the code seems right
14 2014-04-02 00:03:05 <gmaxwell> roybadami: yea, someone broke BIP32 â changed one of the formulas to use a private key in the place of the public key or something like that. The syntax in that bip was/is confusing, someone got confused and helpfully clarified it incorrectly.
15 2014-04-02 00:03:05 <roybadami> Well, at leat the same tools
16 2014-04-02 00:03:16 <roybadami> Oh.... really
17 2014-04-02 00:03:29 <gmaxwell> We also had BIP38 get published basically with ~no one noticing for a long span of time.
18 2014-04-02 00:04:17 <gmaxwell> sipa: be glad that BIPs are not RFCs and you don't have to do an ascii version of that chart. :P
19 2014-04-02 00:04:25 <roybadami> I remember there was an obvious typo lie that in BIP32 when I read it and had been meaning for ages to reread it and flag the issue
20 2014-04-02 00:05:00 <sipa> roybadami: i made some significant changes to it not so long ago
21 2014-04-02 00:05:20 <roybadami> I should reread it anyway.... :-)
22 2014-04-02 00:05:40 <sipa> some have commented that it's less confusing now :)
23 2014-04-02 00:06:22 <roybadami> But I remember a typo - was it a symbol the wrong case of something - I forget the notation now
24 2014-04-02 00:10:14 <roybadami> BTW, I think it would be really good for BIP32 to at least acknowledge the existence of the terms Type 1 and Type 2. If I'mm not mistaken they are historical terms that refer to the two derivations in BIP32 - but it took me a long time to figure that out
25 2014-04-02 00:10:30 <sipa> type-1 is called hardened derivation in bip32
26 2014-04-02 00:10:35 <sipa> type-2 is normal derivation
27 2014-04-02 00:10:53 <sipa> it may make sense to add those names, indeed
28 2014-04-02 00:11:01 <roybadami> Oh, we don't talk aboutpublic and private derivations any more?
29 2014-04-02 00:11:21 <sipa> nope, too confusing
30 2014-04-02 00:11:53 <sipa> public/private was basically used in 3 different cases
31 2014-04-02 00:12:11 <roybadami> I think it would be good to cross-reference the historical terms, though.... the fact is they have been used a lot in previous discussions. I think it would be helpful to have an appendix that discusses this
32 2014-04-02 00:12:25 <sipa> pull requests welcome
33 2014-04-02 00:12:28 <sipa> ACTION zZzZ
34 2014-04-02 00:12:50 <lclc> I'm on the beamer screen :O guess I'm famous now
35 2014-04-02 00:13:33 <gmaxwell> thats not a suggestion I would have made simply because it seems a little vanity-ish to me (just because I originated the type-2 stuff and that nomenclature). :) but if you think it would be useful, please feel free to pull req.
36 2014-04-02 00:13:52 <roybadami> Well, I'll have a go, if I have time.. Problem is I'd risk guessing, because most of these terms aren't documented anywhere
37 2014-04-02 00:14:30 <sipa> roybadami: i'll gladly review :)
38 2014-04-02 00:15:19 <roybadami> Oh.... there is so much reference to type 1 and type 2 thought....
39 2014-04-02 00:16:06 <roybadami> For the longest time the wiki said, of at least one of them... that it exists but noone knows what it is (paraphrased - but pretty much what it said)
40 2014-04-02 00:16:18 <gmaxwell> hm? type-1 / type-2 are defined in my original post that introduced the idea of using the homomorphism that way: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=19137.0
41 2014-04-02 00:17:18 <roybadami> Right.... I think I found that eventually - but it's not easy to find unless you know what you're looking for
42 2014-04-02 00:17:52 <gmaxwell> roybadami: hahah indeed you're right: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Deterministic_wallet&oldid=29573#Type_2_deterministic_wallet
43 2014-04-02 00:19:04 <roybadami> Yeah, that's what I remember when I first was reading about this stuff :-)
44 2014-04-02 00:19:53 <roybadami> The current wiki page isn't much better - it basically just references BIP32 which, of course, completely fails to define the term "type 2"
45 2014-04-02 00:24:52 <roybadami> Ah, I see it does reference your bitcointalk post, too
46 2014-04-02 01:37:37 <dugo> anyone have a good cliff note on bitcoind needing more than 256 MB of memory?
47 2014-04-02 03:16:17 <sipa> dugo: "yes"
48 2014-04-02 04:18:33 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: re sufficiently advanced phisihing request: that or their rod and wheel were good enough.
49 2014-04-02 04:23:47 <phantomcircuit> i've been getting ever increasingly sophisticated phishing attacks recently
50 2014-04-02 04:33:14 <BCB> like what
51 2014-04-02 04:33:37 <BCB> phantomcircuit, what is the delimiter used in the wallet.dat file?
52 2014-04-02 04:33:50 <phantomcircuit> BCB, i've gotten phishing emails that look exactly like invoices from people who are actually suppliers
53 2014-04-02 04:34:14 <BCB> creepy
54 2014-04-02 04:34:39 <phantomcircuit> BCB, yeah suppliers who aren't exactly well known
55 2014-04-02 04:39:30 <sipa> BCB: delimiter?
56 2014-04-02 04:39:51 <BCB> sipa how are the addressses separated
57 2014-04-02 04:39:55 <BCB> keys
58 2014-04-02 04:40:19 <sipa> by... bytes?
59 2014-04-02 04:40:22 <sipa> it's not a csv file
60 2014-04-02 04:40:33 <sipa> it's a database with records and indexes
61 2014-04-02 04:40:43 <sipa> storing key-value pairs of several types
62 2014-04-02 04:40:53 <BCB> why are pub keys stored 3 times
63 2014-04-02 04:41:06 <sipa> that's a good question!
64 2014-04-02 04:41:29 <sipa> once for the pubkey -> privkey data, once for pubkey -> metadata, once for pubkey -> keypool
65 2014-04-02 04:41:38 <sipa> which should be joined into a single record
66 2014-04-02 04:41:47 <BCB> interesting
67 2014-04-02 04:41:47 <sipa> but backward compatibility, blah blah
68 2014-04-02 04:42:31 <BCB> what db level?
69 2014-04-02 04:42:38 <sipa> db level?
70 2014-04-02 04:43:31 <BCB> leveldb
71 2014-04-02 04:43:34 <sipa> no, bdb
72 2014-04-02 04:43:45 <BCB> I thougth you switched
73 2014-04-02 04:43:52 <sipa> for the chainstate/blockchain indexes
74 2014-04-02 04:43:55 <BCB> ahh
75 2014-04-02 04:43:55 <sipa> but not for the wallet
76 2014-04-02 04:44:41 <BCB> can I convert a privkey in wif to hex
77 2014-04-02 04:44:47 <sipa> sure
78 2014-04-02 04:45:29 <sipa> base58check decode it, and you should get 0x80 + [32-byte privkey] + 0x01
79 2014-04-02 04:46:05 <sipa> (the final 0x01 is to indicate that the corresponding public key is to be compressed, which bitcoind uses by default)
80 2014-04-02 05:14:49 <michagogo> cloud|If it's for a non-compressed key, it'll be a 0x00
81 2014-04-02 05:54:10 <netg_> /
82 2014-04-02 05:54:16 <netg_> 6
83 2014-04-02 06:25:27 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: or just be missing
84 2014-04-02 07:03:10 <AmThatsMe> Hi, can any one help with a failed pull tester ?
85 2014-04-02 07:03:39 <sipa> which?
86 2014-04-02 07:04:16 <AmThatsMe> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/pull-tester/058ab408cce5d419019345ab2f0d11cc31a88941/test.log
87 2014-04-02 07:04:50 <AmThatsMe> Only change from last successful pull tester is that i squashed the comments
88 2014-04-02 07:05:04 <sipa> which pull?
89 2014-04-02 07:06:31 <AmThatsMe> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3960
90 2014-04-02 07:07:37 <sipa> that looks bad, but it can't be caused by your change
91 2014-04-02 07:08:32 <AmThatsMe> should i push again ? maybe something went wrong
92 2014-04-02 07:09:55 <sipa> yeah, you can make some trivial change and try pushing again
93 2014-04-02 07:10:41 <AmThatsMe> ok, thanks.
94 2014-04-02 07:10:46 <AmThatsMe> i'll try
95 2014-04-02 07:48:32 <Bitember-Cray> hey
96 2014-04-02 07:48:56 <Bitember-Cray> i was wondering a bit about the -datadir and -conf options
97 2014-04-02 07:49:29 <Bitember-Cray> -datadir creates a whole new folder with peer list, conf file, wallet.dat and blockchain right?
98 2014-04-02 07:49:52 <sipa> it sets the directory where to find those, yes
99 2014-04-02 07:50:01 <sipa> amd if it doean't exist, it's created
100 2014-04-02 07:50:19 <Bitember-Cray> yeah, but what does -conf do?
101 2014-04-02 07:50:28 <sipa> it sets the location of the config file
102 2014-04-02 07:50:41 <sipa> the logic is twister, but mostly does what you'd expect
103 2014-04-02 07:50:48 <sipa> *twisted
104 2014-04-02 07:50:51 <Bitember-Cray> say i want to run 3 instances
105 2014-04-02 07:51:11 <Bitember-Cray> same blockchain, different wallet.dat on different ports
106 2014-04-02 07:51:31 <Bitember-Cray> is that possible or do I have to use -datadir for that and have three blockchains?
107 2014-04-02 07:51:34 <sipa> you cannot share the blockchain between different instances
108 2014-04-02 07:51:37 <sipa> not yet
109 2014-04-02 07:51:47 <Bitember-Cray> well that's a bummer
110 2014-04-02 07:51:54 <sipa> yeah
111 2014-04-02 07:52:20 <Bitember-Cray> well, thanks sipa
112 2014-04-02 07:52:35 <sipa> sharing blockchain databases is hard, but allowimg multiple wallets in one instance shouldn't be hard
113 2014-04-02 07:52:41 <sipa> expect that it isn't implementes
114 2014-04-02 07:53:10 <sipa> you can run separate instances
115 2014-04-02 07:53:30 <sipa> but you'll need to give them separate datadirs, separate rpc ports and separate p2p ports
116 2014-04-02 07:53:34 <Bitember-Cray> yeah i figued
117 2014-04-02 07:53:45 <sipa> also, you can hardlink old blockchain files together
118 2014-04-02 07:53:47 <Bitember-Cray> it just seems such a waste of hdd space
119 2014-04-02 07:54:08 <Bitember-Cray> i mean, the btc blockchain is pretty big now, isnt it?
120 2014-04-02 07:54:19 <sipa> 11 gb i believe
121 2014-04-02 07:54:28 <sipa> but i lost track
122 2014-04-02 07:55:00 <Bitember-Cray> yeah, that's going to be a problem in 30-40 years
123 2014-04-02 07:55:11 <sipa> 17 gb apparently
124 2014-04-02 07:55:14 <sipa> i doubt that
125 2014-04-02 07:55:21 <sipa> disks keep growing faster
126 2014-04-02 07:55:27 <sipa> as do network speeds
127 2014-04-02 07:55:49 <maaku> do they? they seem to have gotten stuck the last few years
128 2014-04-02 07:55:51 <sipa> s/faster/larger/
129 2014-04-02 07:55:59 <maaku> that's what I meant
130 2014-04-02 07:56:13 <sipa> it's been a while since i upgraded my desktop
131 2014-04-02 07:56:22 <sipa> last time it was 2tb drives
132 2014-04-02 07:56:53 <sipa> now they have 4tb ones, i believe?
133 2014-04-02 07:57:01 <maaku> it's up to 4tb now, but iirc we are brushing up against physical limits in the current design
134 2014-04-02 07:57:12 <maaku> there are larger disks, but only because they use more platters
135 2014-04-02 07:57:30 <sipa> ic
136 2014-04-02 07:58:07 <sipa> well, can't grow more than 50 gb per year or so anyway
137 2014-04-02 07:58:25 <sipa> at current block size
138 2014-04-02 07:59:22 <maaku> yeah, it's not a problem for btc
139 2014-04-02 07:59:32 <Bitember-Cray> anywho
140 2014-04-02 07:59:40 <maaku> just me venting frustration that disks are getting cheaper, but not bigger :\
141 2014-04-02 07:59:43 <Bitember-Cray> i was planning on setting up a block explorer
142 2014-04-02 07:59:47 <Bitember-Cray> got any to recomend?
143 2014-04-02 07:59:58 <Bitember-Cray> i've heard good things about abe but never tried it myself
144 2014-04-02 08:00:02 <maaku> Bitember-Cray: bitcore?
145 2014-04-02 08:04:00 <saracen> Hmm. "Corrupted block database detected"
146 2014-04-02 08:08:22 <maaku> saracen: -reindex :(
147 2014-04-02 08:09:59 <AmThatsMe> sipa: Thanks! pushing seems to do the trick. pull #3837 passed the pull tester.
148 2014-04-02 08:22:30 <ander_> Hi, do u know if i can find format of a transaction outside the block, its inputs and outputs either?
149 2014-04-02 08:23:43 <ander_> Hi, do u know if i can find format of a transaction outside the block, also its inputs and outputs?
150 2014-04-02 08:24:32 <ander_> because what i found in the wiki is format of them but inside the block only
151 2014-04-02 08:27:06 <ander_> gaiz pls
152 2014-04-02 08:28:05 <ander_> am i connected thou?
153 2014-04-02 08:28:12 <ander_> :D
154 2014-04-02 08:29:16 <ander_> seriously, anyone can help me?
155 2014-04-02 08:30:56 <ander_> Do u know if i can find format of a transaction outside the block, because all i found in the wiki is format of transaction but inside a block only
156 2014-04-02 08:33:11 <jouke> ander_: do you mean the format it is transmitted to nodes?
157 2014-04-02 08:34:26 <saracen> makomk: Yeah, reindexing now. :( I find it weird though, because the client was cleanly shutdown the last time I used it
158 2014-04-02 08:34:41 <ander_> jop
159 2014-04-02 08:35:02 <ander_> the same
160 2014-04-02 08:35:05 <jouke> ander_: it is the same
161 2014-04-02 08:36:23 <ander_> so why there (on the wiki) is writen: "general format of a Bitcoin transaction (inside a block)"
162 2014-04-02 08:38:33 <ander_> and actually i think that when transaction is broadcasted itself it should at least have some identification no on the beginning like blocks have 0xD9B4BEF9
163 2014-04-02 08:40:59 <jouke> ander_: the "identification" of a transaction is the hash of the transaction
164 2014-04-02 08:41:58 <ander_> no, but i mean the package, or stream or whatever is going on in p2p
165 2014-04-02 08:48:21 <ander_> there should be some data on the beginning, so nodes know that it is comming transaction now. in the wiki description of the transaction inside the block on the beginning there is version no which is 0x00000001, and i don't think this can be a identifier. 0xD9B4BEF9 which is for blocks consists of realy rare characters of ASCII and not valid for utf-8
166 2014-04-02 08:52:17 <ander_> am i thinking good?
167 2014-04-02 09:02:59 <sipa> ander_: i do not understand
168 2014-04-02 09:03:02 <_MrB_> what are the consequences of building bitcoin with a libdb version other than libdb4.8-dev ?
169 2014-04-02 09:03:22 <sipa> _MrB_: not being able to open your wallet.dat file with versions built with an older one
170 2014-04-02 09:03:46 <_MrB_> hmm, so quite severe
171 2014-04-02 09:04:11 <_MrB_> oh wait, i read that wrong
172 2014-04-02 09:04:29 <sipa> you can always dump & reimport at the BDB level, allowing downgrading
173 2014-04-02 09:05:22 <_MrB_> it's getting quite a task to build bitcoin on ubuntu with 4.8 (it's now 2 major releases ago they included it I think)
174 2014-04-02 09:07:04 <sipa> i haven't bothered for a long time
175 2014-04-02 09:07:06 <sipa> 5.1 works fine
176 2014-04-02 09:08:02 <wumpus> me neither, I've always built with 5.1 for as long as I can remember
177 2014-04-02 09:09:01 <_MrB_> configure --with-incompatible-bdb it is then
178 2014-04-02 09:10:35 <_MrB_> any special reason we are holding on to 4.8 by default?
179 2014-04-02 09:11:56 <sipa> release binaries need to support old distro's
180 2014-04-02 09:12:06 <sipa> which don't necessarily have new bdb libs
181 2014-04-02 09:12:24 <midnightmagic> _MrB_: you can add the ppa repository and it will happily supply such a thing.
182 2014-04-02 09:12:37 <_MrB_> midnightmagic: for trusty it wont yet
183 2014-04-02 09:12:52 <midnightmagic> mm.
184 2014-04-02 09:13:01 <midnightmagic> dunno anything about trusty.
185 2014-04-02 09:17:22 <wumpus> you can always use gitian to build if you want the default dependencies
186 2014-04-02 09:22:10 <_MrB_> wumpus: gitian sounds interesting (looking at gitian.org)
187 2014-04-02 09:24:35 <SomeoneWeird> _MrB_, are you sure? why won't it work on trusty?
188 2014-04-02 09:26:00 <_MrB_> SomeoneWeird: if we are talking about this ppa: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin The trusty series is not yet in there.
189 2014-04-02 09:26:17 <Bitember-Cray> how much io-data does a bitcoin client use
190 2014-04-02 09:26:34 <Bitember-Cray> say if you just store coins on it compared to if you use it for a big pool
191 2014-04-02 09:26:49 <SomeoneWeird> _MrB_, so?
192 2014-04-02 09:26:57 <Bitember-Cray> in vauge terms
193 2014-04-02 09:27:15 <SomeoneWeird> sed -i 'trusty/raring' /etc/apt/source.list.d/bitcoin-bitcoin.list
194 2014-04-02 09:27:19 <SomeoneWeird> or whatever the hell the file is
195 2014-04-02 09:27:20 <_MrB_> SomeoneWeird: so, without added jugglery, it wont work
196 2014-04-02 09:27:59 <SomeoneWeird> mmmmmmmk
197 2014-04-02 09:28:23 <vetch> Bitember-Cray: disk IO you mean? nearly all of it will be in the initial blockchain sync, the size of the wallet would be irrelevant in comparison.
198 2014-04-02 09:31:43 <Bitember-Cray> well, i've noticed that wallets with a lot of transactions tends to get huge over time
199 2014-04-02 09:31:51 <_MrB_> sipa: so qt client autoupgrades db from 4.8 to 5.1 or do I need to do something special?
200 2014-04-02 09:32:06 <sipa> _MrB_: it autoupgrades your wallet.dat, yes
201 2014-04-02 09:32:53 <vetch> Bitember-Cray: still fairly irrelevant when compared with the blockchain itself.
202 2014-04-02 09:32:59 <_MrB_> yet it fails with ERROR: CDB() : error Invalid argument (22) opening database environment
203 2014-04-02 09:34:11 <Bitember-Cray> which config options would you guys suggest using for it to use as little cpu/ram/disk io
204 2014-04-02 09:34:17 <Bitember-Cray> after the blockchain is downloaded
205 2014-04-02 09:34:44 <Bitember-Cray> and still be able to send/recieve coins
206 2014-04-02 09:37:03 <sipa> Bitember-Cray: set maxconnections low
207 2014-04-02 09:43:18 <Bitember-Cray> and the -listen command
208 2014-04-02 09:43:34 <Bitember-Cray> is that if you want to be a node
209 2014-04-02 09:43:43 <Bitember-Cray> or is it that it's "offline" if set to 0
210 2014-04-02 09:44:38 <Bitember-Cray> is there a more indepth documentation about the client than the wiki?
211 2014-04-02 09:47:34 <wumpus> _MrB_: bdb cannot upgrade the wallet.dat if it was not shut down properly last time
212 2014-04-02 09:48:14 <_MrB_> wumpus: is that what the msg means?
213 2014-04-02 09:48:43 <wumpus> ... no idea
214 2014-04-02 09:48:52 <wumpus> it's possible
215 2014-04-02 09:49:27 <sipa> _MrB_: look in db.log for details
216 2014-04-02 09:49:31 <_MrB_> ACTION feels a non-productive afternoon coming up
217 2014-04-02 09:50:04 <sipa> if you're in my timezone, you have 10 minutes left...
218 2014-04-02 09:50:27 <_MrB_> nl here
219 2014-04-02 09:50:34 <_MrB_> so, yeah
220 2014-04-02 09:51:16 <_MrB_> 'invalid log file' jumps out
221 2014-04-02 09:51:56 <wumpus> if there is a log file that indeed means that it was not shut down properly
222 2014-04-02 09:52:07 <_MrB_> no log file
223 2014-04-02 09:52:14 <wumpus> you can try manually upgrading the database using db4.8_dump | db_5.1_load
224 2014-04-02 09:52:36 <wumpus> the dump utility should be able to do crash recovery
225 2014-04-02 09:55:08 <_MrB_> ACTION gets a coffee first
226 2014-04-02 09:55:58 <wumpus> (in ubuntu these are in packages db4.8-util and db5.1-util)
227 2014-04-02 09:57:43 <_MrB_> wumpus: yeah, means I still need to install db4.8, oh well
228 2014-04-02 09:58:41 <wumpus> well the other way would be to run a bitcoind binary built against db4.8 (like the one from bitcoin.org) and shut it down cleanly
229 2014-04-02 09:59:11 <_MrB_> wumpus: i put a restored the backup, works now (db5.3 though)
230 2014-04-02 10:00:10 <_MrB_> phew, just before noon. productivity restored! Thanks for your time guys.
231 2014-04-02 10:00:19 <wumpus> restoring a good backup is always the best way
232 2014-04-02 10:00:42 <_MrB_> ACTION nods
233 2014-04-02 10:00:55 <wumpus> I didn't even consider that, I'm already cynical enough to assume people don't have those :-)
234 2014-04-02 10:01:01 <_MrB_> heh
235 2014-04-02 14:23:27 <GuySoft> hey all, does anyone here have experience with gitian? I am on debian and it can't fine the python-vm-builder package there
236 2014-04-02 14:31:05 <wumpus> GuySoft: there is no python-vm-builder package on debian, you need to build it from source, see https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin/blob/2014_04_debian_gitian_build_doc/doc/gitian-building.md#installing-gitian
237 2014-04-02 14:36:24 <only> anyone online?
238 2014-04-02 14:36:27 <only> need some help
239 2014-04-02 14:38:07 <vetch> only: in the absence of anybody else, ask away and I'll do my best.
240 2014-04-02 14:39:05 <only> vetch: thanks. is it possible to look at a multisig (exported) script and say whether it's 2-of-3 or not?
241 2014-04-02 14:41:47 <vetch> I would imagine so in a similar way that the software would. I'm not sure if there's tools that exist to allow you to or not, might be best to wait for somebody more experienced to answer that one.
242 2014-04-02 14:41:48 <only> such as this: 524104c72c88b7ca4660502f6b37ae1c4b5be52a01f043de14fac71f2e823fd96cc80abd1053a69a765ab8d018685bb24e7f557a39f48518113bf48cacdf4fc3319c714104c72c88b7ca4660502f6b37ae1c4b5be52a01f043de14fac71f2e823fd96cc80abd1053a69a765ab8d018685bb24e7f557a39f48518113bf48cacdf4fc3319c714104c72c88b7ca4660502f6b37ae1c4b5be52a01f043de14fac71f2e823fd96cc80abd1053a69a765ab8d018685bb24e7f557a39f48518113bf48cacdf4fc3319c7153ae
243 2014-04-02 14:42:14 <vetch> there's a "decodescript" RPC command that sounds promising.
244 2014-04-02 14:42:37 <only> in core?
245 2014-04-02 14:42:54 <vetch> yes.
246 2014-04-02 14:45:27 <only> let me check that, thanks
247 2014-04-02 14:46:09 <only> works, thanks a bunch vetch! :)
248 2014-04-02 14:46:29 <only> wonder if you can fake it tho (i.e. remove an address)
249 2014-04-02 14:50:20 <vetch> I doubt it, then the transaction wouldn't match the address hash anymore. I've not really read up on them in depth though.
250 2014-04-02 14:53:18 <vetch> only: yes, if you change the script you supply when you make the spend it becomes invalid. the address being a hash of the script allows you to verify the script is as intended.
251 2014-04-02 14:54:42 <only> I see, so if I demand payment to a multisig address (that verifies with the script) and provide the script, anyone can tell it's genuine and indeed a 2-of-3, correct?
252 2014-04-02 14:55:49 <dexx> yes
253 2014-04-02 14:55:49 <vetch> from my reading of BIP16, yes.
254 2014-04-02 14:56:52 <only> thanks a bunch, it's a huge life-saver :)
255 2014-04-02 14:57:34 <dexx> take a look at http://pastebin.com/sqhsHni2 for an example how it would look like
256 2014-04-02 14:59:35 <only> I just did it in console, myself
257 2014-04-02 14:59:36 <only> really cool
258 2014-04-02 15:00:12 <only> also, here is a user-friendly tool which does the same (under "Verify"): https://coinb.in/multisig/
259 2014-04-02 15:00:44 <dexx> ah, nice
260 2014-04-02 15:42:17 <mehqods> hi
261 2014-04-02 15:43:14 <mehqods> how to generate private ECDSA key in new altcoin?
262 2014-04-02 15:50:09 <Burrito> Not dependent on the network.
263 2014-04-02 15:50:30 <Apocalyptic> mehqods, altcoins are off topic here
264 2014-04-02 15:51:59 <mehqods> Apocalyptic ok, how satoshi generated his private ECDSA hey? :D
265 2014-04-02 15:52:17 <Burrito> It's just a random number. :V
266 2014-04-02 15:52:42 <Burrito> 256-bits
267 2014-04-02 15:53:06 <Apocalyptic> that's the private exponent
268 2014-04-02 15:53:14 <Apocalyptic> not to be confused with the whole key
269 2014-04-02 15:53:20 <Burrito> ah *facedesk*
270 2014-04-02 15:55:02 <Burrito> Apocalyptic, Now what's confusing me is this. http://brainwallet.org/ - "Secret exponent" and "Private key" (the WIF one) are the same value.
271 2014-04-02 15:55:18 <Burrito> Is only the DER version used in practice?
272 2014-04-02 15:55:23 <Burrito> or eventually?
273 2014-04-02 15:57:06 <Burrito> ah, right
274 2014-04-02 16:35:40 <maaku> bedeho: no nodes support mempool replacement
275 2014-04-02 16:35:41 <maaku> but if they did, it would be because the inputs are the same
276 2014-04-02 16:36:05 <maaku> no bitcoin software should ever compare unconfirmed transactions by hash
277 2014-04-02 16:37:47 <bedeho> is this unsafe for some reason?
278 2014-04-02 16:38:42 <maaku> yes, as originally envisioned it makes double-spending trivial
279 2014-04-02 16:39:07 <maaku> and the incentives are horribly mis-aligned - you should expect miners to respect higher fees, not higher sequences
280 2014-04-02 16:39:39 <maaku> sequence-based replacement will probably never be implemented, but you may see fee-based replacement
281 2014-04-02 16:39:44 <juantelez> Hi, all.
282 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <bedeho> juantelez: hi
283 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <bedeho> maaku: ah yes, didnt think of that.
284 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <bedeho> that is a really great point ...
285 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <juantelez> 0.00000000
286 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <juantelez> 13:34:40
287 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <juantelez> But I can't even get a balance of an address
288 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <juantelez> getbalance 16u9scrpFkHEgdwYz28ZmQnE7DGjBBiFax
289 2014-04-02 16:43:34 <juantelez> I'm trying to get familiar with the debug console of the bitcoin-qt client.
290 2014-04-02 16:43:42 <juantelez> http://blockchain.info/address/16u9scrpFkHEgdwYz28ZmQnE7DGjBBiFax
291 2014-04-02 16:44:31 <maaku> juantelez: bitcoind doesn't work that way
292 2014-04-02 16:44:42 <maaku> try 'help getbalance'
293 2014-04-02 16:45:08 <maaku> there's no such thing as a balance of an address, getbalance is just used to get your wallet balance
294 2014-04-02 16:46:06 <juantelez> maaku: thanks. I thouth tha "account" and "public address" was the same thing
295 2014-04-02 16:49:34 <Happzz> so technically speaking, how did no one came up with a very simple website that accepts bitcoins at one address and sends "other coins" to another address, provided by the user
296 2014-04-02 16:49:42 <Happzz> minus some fee, obviously
297 2014-04-02 17:36:02 <stqism> Question, anyone know how to manually specify the path to db48 in configure when building bitcoind? It is not autodetected on FreeBSD
298 2014-04-02 17:36:29 <stqism> --help doesn't list anything useful
299 2014-04-02 17:37:44 <stqism> Normally I would use the port, but I had to modify bitcoind to work around my infrastructure
300 2014-04-02 17:47:02 <wumpus> there is no way to set the BDB libs or cflags directly (see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3921), however you can pass the path to there in the generic LDFLAGS/CPPFLAGS
301 2014-04-02 18:34:54 <fuegofuego2> EVERYBODY: Hi there! am a Developer. I have some freetime. And I want to get more involved on GitHub. I have some questions about, what are they working right now and what do they need help with att this moment?
302 2014-04-02 18:36:14 <fuegofuego2> EVERYBODY: *Involved on BicoinCore
303 2014-04-02 18:37:30 <Luke-Jr> fuegofuego2: unit tests
304 2014-04-02 18:38:28 <wumpus> there are tons of issues with the build system, we could use help there, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?direction=desc&labels=Build+system&page=1&sort=created&state=open
305 2014-04-02 18:39:48 <fuegofuego2> Luke-Jr: Thanks I see ;)
306 2014-04-02 18:40:08 <maaku> fuegofuego2: check the issues list on github
307 2014-04-02 18:40:34 <maaku> but generally finding some part you want to know more about and write some unit tests is always good
308 2014-04-02 18:41:02 <fuegofuego2> maaku: ok, thanks for the tips ;)
309 2014-04-02 18:45:58 <fuegofuego2> Hi there, Is there shortcut to "Get" faster what are they talking about? kind of video or somethink so I can get a BIGGER picture of what is going on?
310 2014-04-02 18:46:30 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: I saw your guide
311 2014-04-02 18:46:47 <michagogo> cloud|Why patch gitian, rather than just changing what address space VBox uses?
312 2014-04-02 18:47:15 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: why not? either needs to be patched
313 2014-04-02 18:47:23 <michagogo> cloud|Huh?
314 2014-04-02 18:47:27 <michagogo> cloud|VBox allows you to change it
315 2014-04-02 18:47:27 <wumpus> changing gitian is easier than changing virtualbox
316 2014-04-02 18:47:38 <wumpus> I didn't see the setting
317 2014-04-02 18:47:44 <michagogo> cloud|I don't remember where I changed it, but I did change it
318 2014-04-02 18:48:04 <wumpus> in any case I made a pull for gitian to un-hardcode the IPs, so that the patching is no longer needed
319 2014-04-02 18:48:15 <michagogo> cloud|;;google virtualbox change nat ip address
320 2014-04-02 18:48:16 <gribble> Chapter 6. Virtual networking - VirtualBox: <http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch06.html>; Unable to change IP range of NAT network => Fixed in ... - VirtualBox: <https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/6176>; Chapter 8. VBoxManage - VirtualBox: <http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch08.html>
321 2014-04-02 18:48:50 <michagogo> cloud|Ah, I think it was http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch09.html#changenat
322 2014-04-02 18:49:29 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION didn't remember it being a vboxmanage thing
323 2014-04-02 18:49:35 <wumpus> hmm so you need to mess around with some command-line tool, I doubht that's easy on windows
324 2014-04-02 18:49:49 <wumpus> it's not in the GUI
325 2014-04-02 18:50:06 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: just provide the path?
326 2014-04-02 18:50:38 <michagogo> cloud|Should be the same for everyone
327 2014-04-02 18:51:17 <wumpus> in any case, it's not good that gitian hardcodes the IPs, in the end it doesn't matter if you change vbox or gitian
328 2014-04-02 18:51:21 <michagogo> cloud|"c:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox\VBoxManage.exe" modifyvm "VM name" --natnet1 "10.11.12/24"
329 2014-04-02 18:51:33 <michagogo> cloud|Well, changing vbox is supported
330 2014-04-02 18:51:41 <fuegofuego2> EVERYBODY: Hello? where can I get som kind of "guiding" to could see better the BIGGER picture of what is going on and to could understand FASTER all the details they are talking on here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?direction=desc&labels=Build+system&page=1&sort=created&state=open I want to understand a bit the structure of the program right now. Do you now any good source to get some QUICK IDEA? thanks!
331 2014-04-02 18:51:50 <wumpus> supported with some weird command, yeah...
332 2014-04-02 18:52:26 <michagogo> cloud|Weird command? It's just vboxmanage
333 2014-04-02 18:54:11 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: Also, personally I'd go more into other options -- for example, KVM for those running on a physical machine (which you mentioned as an option)
334 2014-04-02 18:54:26 <wumpus> why?
335 2014-04-02 18:54:31 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION goes back to look at the document again
336 2014-04-02 18:54:38 <wumpus> I just want to describe one way of doing things that works
337 2014-04-02 18:54:40 <michagogo> cloud|(I just skimmed it earlier on my phone)
338 2014-04-02 18:54:50 <michagogo> cloud|So why mention physical hardware?
339 2014-04-02 18:55:04 <wumpus> because it works *THIS WAY* on physical hardware too
340 2014-04-02 18:55:09 <Ry4an> fuegofuego2: it usually doesn't work that way w/ any open source project. You lurk on the mailing list for awhile until you understand half of what's being discussed, and then you start with small bug fixes or (as someone suggested earlier unit tests)
341 2014-04-02 18:55:10 <wumpus> why not mention it?
342 2014-04-02 18:55:44 <fuegofuego2> Ry4an: Thanks ;)
343 2014-04-02 18:55:53 <wumpus> I don't want to confuse people with zillion of choices but just provide steps that can be followed
344 2014-04-02 18:56:31 <michagogo> cloud|Is "this first section" "Create a new VirtualBox VM"?
345 2014-04-02 18:57:16 <michagogo> cloud|Because if so, maybe mention creating a CD or USB stick for the physical machine?
346 2014-04-02 18:58:05 <wumpus> yeah that'd be possible
347 2014-04-02 18:58:42 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION wonders about the choice of iso
348 2014-04-02 18:58:45 <wumpus> though I suppose the kind of people that have trouble burning an ISO probably won't be following this guide
349 2014-04-02 18:59:08 <michagogo> cloud|(I'm not familiar with Debian, so I don't know what their releases and images are like)
350 2014-04-02 18:59:55 <wumpus> netinst is the smallest image, which is appropriate because only a very base system is installed...
351 2014-04-02 19:02:23 <michagogo> cloud|What's https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst#verysmall ?
352 2014-04-02 19:02:56 <wumpus> don't ask me?
353 2014-04-02 19:02:57 <fuegofuego2> Are there some specific MAILING LIST for developers? or is it only GENERAL MAILING LIST where they talk about other irrelevant info?
354 2014-04-02 19:03:37 <wumpus> fuegofuego2: http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/
355 2014-04-02 19:04:00 <fuegofuego2> wumpus: THANKS ;)
356 2014-04-02 19:05:06 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: well, it looks like something smaller than netinst
357 2014-04-02 19:06:00 <bedeho> if an output uses SIGHASH_SINGLE, when used as input, how is it matched to the correct output in the new transaction? in particular, what if number of outputs and inputs in new transaction is unequal?
358 2014-04-02 19:06:19 <kazcw> if there are more outputs than inputs, no problem
359 2014-04-02 19:08:05 <michagogo> cloud|bedeho: the input needs to have the same index as the output
360 2014-04-02 19:08:11 <kazcw> if there is a SIGHASH_SINGLE input with no corresponding output, the standard client refuses to sign such a transaction, but there is a valid way to do so due to a bug: the transaction hash is treated as 1 (the 256-bit little endian value 1). Creating such a transaction would be inadvisable, since the signature could be reused to create other transactions for that pubkey
361 2014-04-02 19:10:01 <bedeho> kazcw: if there are more outputs than inputs, then how is matching done? just one by one, and then last input is matched to all remaining outputs?
362 2014-04-02 19:10:13 <kazcw> input N matches up to output N
363 2014-04-02 19:10:34 <kazcw> (if input N is signed with sighash_single)
364 2014-04-02 19:10:54 <bedeho> ok
365 2014-04-02 19:11:25 <bedeho> kazcw: thanks
366 2014-04-02 19:11:34 <bedeho> michagogo|cloud: thanks
367 2014-04-02 19:17:09 <17SAAAABX> wumpus, thanks about the gittian remark!
368 2014-04-02 19:44:47 <fuegofuego2> What do you think is a "closer" way to could GET WHATS IS GOING ON on the developer process side of BitcoinCore? Better to read all the previous DEV-BITCOIN-MAILINGLIST https://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/? or to try to compile the BitcoinCore on windows using https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-msw.md? Any recomendations are apreciated! Thanks in advance ;)
369 2014-04-02 19:47:29 <kazcw> You should do BOTH. Read how to COMPILE it before you consider DEVELOPING it; then ADVANCE to reading the mailing list, and LEARNING about anything discussed there that you don't already UNDERSTAND.
370 2014-04-02 19:47:41 <wumpus> I'd suggest trying to get it to compile on Linux first, it's much easier
371 2014-04-02 19:48:23 <fuegofuego2> I apreciate your answers. Thanks ;)
372 2014-04-02 19:49:34 <wumpus> the build-msw document is pretty much outdated, if you still manage to build it anyway and update the document that's of course very welcome
373 2014-04-02 19:49:39 <fuegofuego2> With EASIER, do you mean FASTER? or FREE OF SILLY PROBLEMS when compiling?
374 2014-04-02 19:49:58 <bedeho> with SIGHASH_NONE, is sequence field first zeroed out? so that outputs could actually be changed later (if sequence was actually implemented that is)
375 2014-04-02 19:51:35 <wumpus> well, literally easier, most developers use linux (and the official cross compile for windows using gitian is also linux-based) so you're less likely to run into hard-to-debug issues
376 2014-04-02 19:52:27 <kazcw> bedeho: yeah, the nSequences are blanked out for the "unsigned" inputs in a SIGHASH_SINGLE signature. If you want to see exactly what SIGHASH_SINGLE does, check out fHashSingle in CTransactionSignatureSerializer (script.cpp)
377 2014-04-02 19:53:20 <bedeho> kazcw: yes, I know _single does, was wondering about _none
378 2014-04-02 19:53:22 <wumpus> (and within linux distributions, ubuntu seems most popular)
379 2014-04-02 19:54:00 <fuegofuego2> WUMPUS: When you compile with LINUX, do you use VIRTUAL MACHINE, or you BOOT with the Linux OS directly?
380 2014-04-02 19:54:37 <kazcw> bedeho: _NONE doesn't lock-in any nSequence values
381 2014-04-02 19:54:44 <wumpus> fuegofuego2: both is possible
382 2014-04-02 19:54:50 <wumpus> fuegofuego2: it's all up to you
383 2014-04-02 19:56:58 <bedeho> kazcw: cool, thanks!
384 2014-04-02 19:57:15 <fuegofuego2> WUMPUS : am thinking if I use VIRTUAL MACHINE do I gonna start to have PLENTY of SILLY PROBLEMS with NETWORK CONNECTIONS (and wasting time fixing it)? or sould it no be a relevant ISSUE the network errors on the VIRTUALMACHINE to the COMPILING PROCESS of the bitcoinCore?
385 2014-04-02 19:58:29 <Ry4an> fuegofuego2: your arbitrarily capitalizing words is very unusual and makes your text hard to read
386 2014-04-02 19:58:55 <fuegofuego2> RY4AN: Am Spanish so I try my best.. ^^'
387 2014-04-02 19:59:17 <fuegofuego2> I can try again to explain my self
388 2014-04-02 19:59:33 <Ry4an> no prob. English a second language is plenty normal in open source, but CAPTIALIZING WHOLE WORDS is perceived as yelling.
389 2014-04-02 20:00:53 <wumpus> fuegofuego2: you lost me (not sure what network problems you're talking about)
390 2014-04-02 20:03:00 <fuegofuego2> WITCH WAY do you see more FREE OF SILLY PROBLEMS (am thinking when it cames to network). To install LINUX directly on my PC, or to install LINUX on the VIRTUALMACHINE. Sould future NETWORK ISSUES affect the COMPILING PROCES of BITCOINCORE if I use VIRTUALMACHINE?
391 2014-04-02 20:03:14 <wumpus> 'setting up a virtual machine' is a matter of clicking a few buttons these days with tools like virtualbox
392 2014-04-02 20:04:34 <wumpus> well using a VM is generally easier than intalling linux as extra OS on your machine directly
393 2014-04-02 20:04:55 <fuegofuego2> WUMPUS: ok, I will try VIA VIRTUAL MACHINE LINUX. The think is that it drives me MAAD to have to INSTALL 2 times the same OS and have to waste time 2 times.. ^^'
394 2014-04-02 20:05:48 <fuegofuego2> And I wondered, If you maybe had experienced DIRECTLY issues with networki, when you compile BITCOINCORE with LINUX..
395 2014-04-02 20:06:03 <fuegofuego2> and try to skip this issues (wasting time) ;)
396 2014-04-02 20:06:12 <wumpus> (although there are simple UIs for that as well, like wubi...)
397 2014-04-02 20:06:22 <fuegofuego2> WUMPUS: thanks ;)
398 2014-04-02 20:06:32 <wumpus> I don't get it, why your obsession with network issues?
399 2014-04-02 20:06:51 <fuegofuego2> BAD EXPIRIENCES i guess ^^'
400 2014-04-02 20:07:38 <fuegofuego2> I remember when I was trying to INSTALL "BackTracker".. I got really maaaad with NETWORK ISSUES.. xD
401 2014-04-02 20:08:54 <fuegofuego2> UIs? do you mean USER INTERFACE? :-l
402 2014-04-02 20:10:44 <fuegofuego2> oh! yes I see. Ok I understand ;)
403 2014-04-02 20:10:55 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: Wasn't wubi retired several releases ago because it was broken and didn't work well?
404 2014-04-02 20:10:55 <stqism> You might want to stick to point and click GUIs
405 2014-04-02 20:11:43 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: I have no clue... I used it in the past and it worked for me
406 2014-04-02 20:12:43 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: I'm just mentioning some possibilities, I really expect people to do their own research
407 2014-04-02 20:13:42 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: Why are you installing sudo? o_O
408 2014-04-02 20:14:32 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: it's not installed by default on debian (at least not without the desktop environment)
409 2014-04-02 20:14:37 <michagogo> cloud|Really? O_o
410 2014-04-02 20:15:49 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION looks up python-cheetah parted kpartx bridge-utils
411 2014-04-02 20:16:40 <wumpus> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/106529/is-sudo-not-installed-by-default-in-debian hmm, according to that, only if you don't provide a root password it installs sudo by default
412 2014-04-02 20:17:34 <wumpus> no idea if it's true, don't feel like trying it out right now
413 2014-04-02 20:18:13 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: What's xpartx? packages.debian.org doesn't appear to list it
414 2014-04-02 20:21:16 <wumpus> it's kpartx
415 2014-04-02 20:22:49 <wumpus> it's used by the vm image creation
416 2014-04-02 20:24:20 <fuegofuego2> WUBI seems really INTERESTIN ;) thanks
417 2014-04-02 20:25:02 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: oops, misread
418 2014-04-02 20:25:05 <chairman_meow> Hello guys. Can we discuss a theoretical altcoin? I don't really want to make an altcoin. more of a thought experiment.
419 2014-04-02 20:25:23 <michagogo> cloud|ACTION notices wumpus left out apache2
420 2014-04-02 20:25:31 <chairman_meow> What if the proof of work was to factor a semiprime?
421 2014-04-02 20:25:54 <chairman_meow> I see two problems with it: 1. generate a semiprime without knowing the factors
422 2014-04-02 20:26:10 <chairman_meow> 2. how to accurately time how long it takes to solve that semiprime
423 2014-04-02 20:26:25 <michagogo> cloud|wumpus: BTW, if you need --no-check-certificate, why not just put that in the wgetrc?
424 2014-04-02 20:26:28 <gavinandresen> chairman_meow: do you konow about http://primecoin.org/static/primecoin-paper.pdf