1 2014-09-27 00:15:30 <brisque> has anybody ever made a public patch that adds vout indexing to bitcoind?
2 2014-09-27 00:16:06 <justanotheruser> ^also curious
3 2014-09-27 00:16:08 <brisque> ie, creates an index that lets you look up what transaction spends a particular output
4 2014-09-27 00:16:25 <justanotheruser> I think that is much easier to use than having your program scan every block for your tx
5 2014-09-27 00:17:44 <brisque> that's sort of Hard Mode level stuff right there
6 2014-09-27 00:23:22 <brisque> I'm sure somebody has written it at some point, but the usual suspects all have so many brances I don't know where to begin looking
7 2014-09-27 00:41:07 <dcousens> can a transaction have a 0 BTC output? Aka, 0.1 BTC, 0 BTC out (aka 0.1 BTC sent to miners)?
8 2014-09-27 00:41:20 <dcousens> And is that considered < dust?
9 2014-09-27 00:43:39 <brisque> you can have a 0BTC output, yes
10 2014-09-27 00:45:45 <firelegend> rest goes to? as fee?
11 2014-09-27 00:46:04 <sipa> dcousens: yes; better even: before 'dust' was called dust, the behaviour regarding its handling has existed for 0-value outputs
12 2014-09-27 00:46:10 <brisque> in your example, yes. fees are (in - out)
13 2014-09-27 00:46:59 <justanotheruser> sipa: Can I redeem a 0 btc output and if not, was I able to before a softfork?
14 2014-09-27 00:47:10 <sipa> you can redeem it
15 2014-09-27 00:47:47 <sipa> at least according to consensus rules
16 2014-09-27 00:53:22 <dcousens> sipa: would that mean a 0BTC output would be non-standard and difficult to get mined?
17 2014-09-27 00:53:28 <dcousens> (just verifying)
18 2014-09-27 00:54:30 <sipa> yes
19 2014-09-27 00:55:19 <sipa> that's what i mean: 0 BTC outputs have been non-standard before the concept of 'dust' existed
20 2014-09-27 00:55:32 <sipa> but they are valid
21 2014-09-27 01:07:46 <justanotheruser> sipa: so why not softfork it so you can't spend 0btc outputs and clear all those from the utxo
22 2014-09-27 01:08:23 <sipa> they're not an actual problem now, and softforks have inherent risks
23 2014-09-27 01:09:43 <justanotheruser> hmm
24 2014-09-27 01:09:44 <justanotheruser> interesting
25 2014-09-27 01:10:16 <sipa> though on they other hand, making 0 value outputs illegal means we get an strict upper bound on the size of the UTXO set
26 2014-09-27 01:10:52 <sipa> 21 million BTC / 1 satoshi * (max script size + some metadata)
27 2014-09-27 01:11:53 <justanotheruser> lol
28 2014-09-27 01:12:17 <justanotheruser> computer science can be good at evaluating things that will never be a concern
29 2014-09-27 01:12:28 <justanotheruser> s/at/for
30 2014-09-27 01:12:55 <justanotheruser> if we reached the point where everyone was transacting by the satoshi then a fork to make the denomination smaller is inevitable
31 2014-09-27 01:14:28 <brisque> sipa: do you know of anybody who has made a vout spentby index patch for bitcoind?
32 2014-09-27 01:15:45 <sipa> i believe nobody but Satoshi did this (0.7 worked this way)
33 2014-09-27 01:16:03 <sipa> and earlier
34 2014-09-27 01:16:40 <brisque> why did that index exist for normal wallets?
35 2014-09-27 01:17:17 <sipa> not in the wallets
36 2014-09-27 01:17:26 <sipa> the blockchain validation engine used to work that way
37 2014-09-27 01:17:32 <sipa> for tracking and rolling back spends
38 2014-09-27 01:17:37 <Luke-Jr> we may need 0 BTC outputs too
39 2014-09-27 01:17:56 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: so we can put love messages in the blockchain but not pay miners right?
40 2014-09-27 01:18:16 <brisque> ah, so there wasn't the undo files for reorgs? makes sense.
41 2014-09-27 01:18:21 <sipa> indeed
42 2014-09-27 01:18:22 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: I don't see how "not pay miners" makes sense here
43 2014-09-27 01:18:44 <brisque> sipa: thank you, I wasn't aware of that history
44 2014-09-27 01:18:52 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: you're right, it doesn't...
45 2014-09-27 01:19:16 <sipa> justanotheruser: max UTXO size as a result from that formula: 21.1 exabytes
46 2014-09-27 01:19:27 <sipa> that's huge, but not beyond human reach
47 2014-09-27 01:19:37 <gwillen> should be enough for anybody
48 2014-09-27 01:20:00 <justanotheruser> sipa: great
49 2014-09-27 01:20:07 <brisque> sipa: think anybody would be interested in a spentby index? I think Luke-Jr has mentioned it before at least
50 2014-09-27 01:20:11 <justanotheruser> ACTION whips out 50eb sd card
51 2014-09-27 01:20:27 <sipa> brisque: i could do that in an hour i think :)
52 2014-09-27 01:20:31 <brisque> justanotheruser: I think that would be physically impossible
53 2014-09-27 01:20:55 <justanotheruser> brisque: with our current understanding of physics probably
54 2014-09-27 01:21:16 <sipa> it's only a few cubic metres of microsd cards
55 2014-09-27 01:21:31 <sipa> (which costs more than its weight in gold, iirc)
56 2014-09-27 01:22:31 <brisque> sipa: would you be willing to throw one together?
57 2014-09-27 01:23:29 <sipa> maybe, if i'm bored :)
58 2014-09-27 01:23:32 <brisque> sipa: if so, message me a fresh Bitcoin address.
59 2014-09-27 01:23:57 <justanotheruser> that would only be a few million dollars right?
60 2014-09-27 01:24:29 <brisque> justanotheruser: I'm not sure how you intend to encode data at a higher density than the number of atoms within the physical space
61 2014-09-27 01:24:49 <justanotheruser> brisque: did I imply I intend to?
62 2014-09-27 01:25:11 <brisque> surely a 50eb SD card would be higher density than that
63 2014-09-27 01:25:26 <justanotheruser> it was a joke :/
64 2014-09-27 01:25:50 <justanotheruser> not only would it break the laws of physics, but it would break the laws of predatory lending
65 2014-09-27 01:25:53 <sipa> 2.4 m^3 per exabyte in 64gb microsd cards
66 2014-09-27 01:26:05 <brisque> ha!
67 2014-09-27 01:27:11 <sipa> for $15M
68 2014-09-27 01:27:13 <brisque> wow, Google is estimated to have 15 Exabyte of total storage
69 2014-09-27 01:27:35 <sipa> where did you read that?
70 2014-09-27 01:27:57 <brisque> http://what-if.xkcd.com/63/
71 2014-09-27 01:28:04 <sipa> ha, right :)
72 2014-09-27 01:28:15 <brisque> randall munroe is usually correct, but it is an estimate after all
73 2014-09-27 01:28:18 <justanotheruser> I googled the price of an exabyte and only got facepalm
74 2014-09-27 01:28:19 <justanotheruser> "The software needed for you to use 1PB (EMC DiskXtender for UNIX/Linux) is $241,980.88
75 2014-09-27 01:28:22 <justanotheruser> you need 1000 licences, so $2,419,808,800 for the software. "
76 2014-09-27 01:28:55 <bombsite> nsa is so good at wasting money..
77 2014-09-27 01:29:18 <bombsite> my friends who work for gov't or gov't contractors have to log their hours at work at the end of every DAY
78 2014-09-27 01:29:25 <justanotheruser> I can't believe google spent 30 billion dollars on 15,000 licenses of a program
79 2014-09-27 01:29:28 <bombsite> that's ridiculous.
80 2014-09-27 01:29:54 <justanotheruser> especially since they could have just paid their employees to create the software for tens of thousands of dollars
81 2014-09-27 01:31:34 <bombsite> wait which program
82 2014-09-27 01:33:46 <justanotheruser> bombsite: joke about how this guy is factoring 1000 licenses of a program into the cost of an exabyte
83 2014-09-27 01:35:10 <bombsite> ohh well
84 2014-09-27 01:35:23 <bombsite> my company pays hella money for microsoft outlook and lync
85 2014-09-27 01:35:39 <bombsite> and I'm pretty sure there's enough talent for someone to just make a copy of it...
86 2014-09-27 01:35:54 <justanotheruser> I'm pretty sure there are already better copies of it
87 2014-09-27 01:36:07 <justanotheruser> use IRC instead of lync
88 2014-09-27 01:36:13 <justanotheruser> use thunderbird instead of outlook
89 2014-09-27 01:36:38 <bombsite> I can't because the rest of my company is on it.
90 2014-09-27 01:36:53 <bombsite> gg
91 2014-09-27 01:37:05 <justanotheruser> bombsite: I thought we were discussing what companies could do, not individuals
92 2014-09-27 01:37:33 <justanotheruser> anyways, this belongs in #bitcoin-optomizing-companies
93 2014-09-27 01:41:01 <bombsite> justanotheruser: oh yeah. true
94 2014-09-27 01:57:01 <Luke-Jr> brisque: I have a spentby index independent of bitcoin core
95 2014-09-27 01:57:49 <brisque> Luke-Jr: ooh, how's it built?
96 2014-09-27 01:58:05 <Luke-Jr> in what sense?
97 2014-09-27 01:58:20 <Luke-Jr> -rw-r--r-- 1 luke-jr luke-jr 811M Aug 20 19:28 txin.idx
98 2014-09-27 01:58:45 <brisque> how does it interface, what type of store is it?
99 2014-09-27 01:59:32 <Luke-Jr> it's C code, completely custom
100 2014-09-27 02:00:59 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: it parses the blockchain independent of bitcoind?
101 2014-09-27 02:01:07 <Luke-Jr> yes
102 2014-09-27 02:01:18 <Luke-Jr> it does share bitcoind's blkNNNN.dat files though
103 2014-09-27 02:01:24 <Luke-Jr> blkNNNNN.dat*
104 2014-09-27 02:05:53 <brisque> hm, that's a hell of a lot smaller than mine (and mine sort of only half functions)
105 2014-09-27 02:55:22 <mrebola> Hi Folks
106 2014-09-27 02:56:05 <mrebola> anybody have experience ussing this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Abe ?
107 2014-09-27 03:54:32 <mrebola> Anyone know how to get a list of incoming transactions of a bitcoin address with amount in json format ?
108 2014-09-27 06:28:33 <mrebola> is there a way to skip the miner fee with bitcoin-cli ? I remember blockchain app have that option.
109 2014-09-27 06:30:57 <justanotheruser> mrebola: the network won't relay spam
110 2014-09-27 07:33:01 <mrebola> Sorry I lost my internet
111 2014-09-27 14:11:08 <goykasi> ive been working on a program that watches transactions that are actively being relayed, but ive noticed that a few peers that im connected to are broadcasting old txids (from previous blocks)
112 2014-09-27 14:11:23 <goykasi> why would that be happening? is that to be expected?
113 2014-09-27 14:12:19 <goykasi> for example, this one: https://blockchain.info/tx/148161187f772c3021114be059cf4de53f3d5740d8390ed7e0b531af14212168
114 2014-09-27 14:21:55 <Tebbo> hey
115 2014-09-27 14:22:12 <Tebbo> i don't want to post a link right away, but can someone explain to me the "private keys leaked" site?
116 2014-09-27 14:22:29 <Tebbo> why can't I just take the private key and take the money
117 2014-09-27 14:22:45 <Happzz> the what?
118 2014-09-27 14:28:55 <Tebbo> http://directory.io/1#5HpHagT65TZzG1PH3CSu63k8DbpvD8s5ip4nEB3kEsreAbuatmU
119 2014-09-27 14:33:09 <gmaxwell> Tebbo: all that site is doing is listing allpossible privatekeys, it's effectively infinite in size. You'll never find a valid one in it, unless know the result in advance and go to it.
120 2014-09-27 14:38:12 <OGF> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McLlz5BVi-Y
121 2014-09-27 14:38:28 <OGF> wrong channel
122 2014-09-27 14:38:30 <OGF> shit my bad
123 2014-09-27 14:57:37 <Happzz> need some testnet coins at moX8DcDvHuhKEHzLShJzy8B4v32ZG6MLGA please
124 2014-09-27 15:38:48 <b-itcoinssg> Happzz:Have you tried the faucets?
125 2014-09-27 15:42:29 <Tebbo> gmaxwell, what dictates a "valid" key? futhermore, I've checked some of the addresses on blockchain.info and some have money in them
126 2014-09-27 15:42:48 <Tebbo> are the possible pairs important?
127 2014-09-27 15:43:13 <Tebbo> so to say, just because a priv key generated a pub key it does not follow that a pub key is related to a priv key
128 2014-09-27 15:47:04 <b-itcoinssg> Tebbo: the website you mentioned does not have all the pairs generated, rather its generating them on the fly as you request the page
129 2014-09-27 15:47:39 <b-itcoinssg> if it wasn't computationally infeasible to generate all pairs then Bitcoin would'nt work
130 2014-09-27 16:26:46 <mrebola> Good day everyone !
131 2014-09-27 16:34:48 <b-itcoinssg> hello
132 2014-09-27 16:48:51 <earlz> How do you compile bitcoin on cygwin? (not for redistribution)
133 2014-09-27 16:48:56 <earlz> I get this error configure: error: libdb_cxx headers missing
134 2014-09-27 16:52:46 <justanotheruser> earlz: why are you trying to compile on cygwin?
135 2014-09-27 16:54:01 <earlz> Because it's easier than setting up a proper build environment with mingw
136 2014-09-27 16:54:19 <earlz> and I just need to build for my own use,not for distribution to anyone
137 2014-09-27 16:54:27 <earlz> (so the license stuff doesn'tmatter)
138 2014-09-27 16:54:37 <justanotheruser> you know there are windows executables right?
139 2014-09-27 16:54:50 <earlz> yea. I want to test a modification
140 2014-09-27 16:54:58 <earlz> and happent o not be on Linux right now lol
141 2014-09-27 16:55:37 <justanotheruser> ok
142 2014-09-27 16:56:04 <b-itcoinssg> earlz: why not install virtualbox and install ubuntu? You'll get a dispensable, controlable environment, and not to mention the full linux experience?
143 2014-09-27 16:56:42 <earlz> because this is an underpowered laptop that can barely compile it as is
144 2014-09-27 16:56:48 <b-itcoinssg> i see
145 2014-09-27 16:57:04 <earlz> Also for easy editing... same reason I'm not just doing X forwarding and SSH
146 2014-09-27 17:00:26 <justanotheruser> earlz: are you making an altcoin?
147 2014-09-27 17:05:43 <gmaxwell> Tebbo: they don't have funds assigned to them.
148 2014-09-27 17:06:07 <gmaxwell> Tebbo: please this is not material for #bitcoin-dev, go to #bitcoin and someone can explain counting to you. :)
149 2014-09-27 17:10:23 <earlz> justanotheruser: s/making/made :)
150 2014-09-27 22:00:02 <Tebbo> gmaxwell, wowzers broseph
151 2014-09-27 22:00:08 <Tebbo> such harsh man, mellow out
152 2014-09-27 22:00:15 <Tebbo> but yeah, that's what I thought so I understand it now
153 2014-09-27 22:25:50 <kindoge> 0.9.3 won't recognize rpcallowip=a.b.c.d/x format properly
154 2014-09-27 22:28:25 <gmaxwell> kindoge: That functionality isn't part of 0.9.3.
155 2014-09-27 22:28:42 <kindoge> alright, thanks
156 2014-09-27 23:01:08 <kanzure> gmaxwell: speaking of foo-notify, why is there any input at all? why not just tell notify-script-authors that they should ask bitcoind for the latest?
157 2014-09-27 23:03:25 <gmaxwell> kanzure: you're free to ignore the input.
158 2014-09-27 23:03:43 <kanzure> are any environment variables being passed?
159 2014-09-27 23:04:08 <kanzure> i think i guessed wrong about which channel to send to
160 2014-09-27 23:05:48 <gmaxwell> kanzure: no. just an argument
161 2014-09-27 23:05:51 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, not intentionally
162 2014-09-27 23:06:57 <kanzure> phantomcircuit: oops, right.. i suppose i mean specifically "is input from tx data ending up in environment variables", but that's already answered
163 2014-09-27 23:07:40 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, no and generally speaking notify should be operating in the same security context as bitcoind anyways
164 2014-09-27 23:08:06 <phantomcircuit> i've suggested a number of times that the notify script simply triggers an external polling process
165 2014-09-27 23:08:16 <phantomcircuit> nobody seems to listen though
166 2014-09-27 23:08:26 <kanzure> if it is already polling then what is the trigger for?
167 2014-09-27 23:10:06 <gmaxwell> kanzure: just faster response.